/biz/ - Business & Finance

by accruing enough personal wealth and power to better support the most basic of progressive policies.
3 trillion dollars to bail out airlines that charge you $60 baggage fees and the cruise ship industry? Both of which have used their enormous profits to engage in stock buybacks to inflate their value rather than reinvestment or paying their workers? Oh of course congress has the money to help, god forbid a business be allowed to fail in a free market we wouldn't want that.

Universal healthcare that Yale medical school research determines would cost taxpayers less than our current system where you get charged hundreds of dollars for insulin and flying to Japan for dental work is cheaper than getting it done in America? Haha of course not you filthy communist what do you think this is? Of course the insurance companies deserve profits off of you breaking a leg!

I don't see any meaningful change happening anytime soon, with the middle class rapidly vanishing the best thing you do to protect yourself and your family is to make sure you're a member of the boot-wearing class and not the face-stomped in the coming years.

>>19123509
>>19124017
based and leftypilled

>>19123509
I thought I was the only lefty, based

>>19124017
This. My goal is to beat Jeff Bezos' high score, and use all that wealth to end this retarded system.

>>19123509
This whole thread better be a fucking troll.

>>19123509
based
>>19124382
major cringe, probably israeli

>>19124017
unbelievably based, redistribute your wealth to me

>>19124382
its not. prople really are this retarded

>>19124446
Yes, that was my hunch as well, too bad.

I'm actually really close to getting crypto rich and seriously considering whether I wouldn't give away all my money and go over to a cashless society, if it would mean getting rid of dumb sluts and related consumerist shitters people are being turned into by propaganda today.

>>19124503
*moneyless society. Some things are just priceless.

>>19124382
>you can't possibly be both in favour of making a decent living AND having a fair society. It's literally one or the other extreme, it's too complicated to see it any other way!

>>19124538
Lefties are like some weird vampirism cult you all want what we, the producers have. You can fuck off and if I see any of you hippies on my front lawn you're getting shot.

>>19123509
With CoalChain

>>19124646
>we, the producers

>>19124646
>the world is full of goodies and baddies and my team are the goodies
I think you watch too much Marvel

>>19124017
based. we’re going to make it, anon.

don't feed the trolls

>>19124646
>we, the producers have
You can't be this retarded

>>19124646

The fact that people only think socialism is a thing the cultural right can't do is exactly why it can suddenly surge.

If Donald Trump can ape a few leftie ideas and bash through the primaries and general elections into the whitehouse like it was nothing, some rightwinger can call socialism "americanism" or something and the republican base would just roll with it because they are not about principals anyways.

Republicans are a hair-trigger away from being 'marxists, but with jesus n sheeit.

>>19124708
>>19124775
>everything can be deconstructed ad infinitum and you can't make deductive and inductive generalizations about patterns that occur frequently
Ok retards. You always want something that is not yours, you are sick people.

>>19124848
How about work fucking hard and produce something zoomer instead of taking what's not yours.

so, 3 more trillion dollars. that's SOCIALISM

>>19124646
Genuine leftists are in favor of a completely armed populace because disarming workers is one of the easiest ways to control them. Don't get corporate democrats confused with them.

Corporate bailouts are not capitalism in the first place. The capitalistic answer would be to wait for Boeing's stock to hit rock bottom and just have the federal government buy it outright if they're truly so essential to national security, not bail them out and continue to allow them to profit off of the taxpayers. Ironically, if that were to occur conservatives would screech about how they had been "nationalized" and call it dirty communism in action because they're so used to being coddled at the expense of the American public.

>>19124017
<3 you'd have to be 70IQ to be a freemarket cuck or god,guns,grits gravy republican

Fuck kikes, fuck communists, fuck Donald "it's not socialism when I do it" Trump, fuck this thread, fuck OP, fuck /biz/, fuck you, fuck niggers, fuck jannies

>>19124848
>Republicans are a hair-trigger away from being 'marxists, but with jesus n sheeit

shit you're going to make me COOM

>>19124926
>the thing that elites ridicule and lambast the most is 70 IQ meanwhile this ideology that the elite are pushing is the truly enlightened opinion11!!!!
You're either 16 years old or retarded. Sure there are retards among Libertarians, Tea-Partiers and other assorted righties but we are the personification of the low iq, high iq coming together meme.

Trump will also destroy the 2 party system by breaking both parties, and that's a GOOD THING!

>>19124856
I bet you want access to public roads that are not yours you communist.

>>19125004
I fucking pay taxes for them, fuckhead. God damn you people need to leave the basement.

>>19124883

What would you do if the republicans turned socialist and the dem establishment stayed cultural-left capitalists?

>>19125033
You pay taxes that end up finding universities and hospitals too, kinda fucked up for them to charge you for something you're already paying for isn't it?

Imagine if they put up a tollbooth on a public road? You'd be fucking livid, wouldn't you? Do you really think dental work shouldn't be covered under health insurance? Why?

>>19124017
>>19124220
>>19124338
>>19124365
>>19124398
>>19124400
>>19124807
>>19125033
>globeunism ids be gud no? :D

>>19123509
I steal
Also a bunch of other stuff like breaking into random servers that I find while scanning the internet and deploying crypto miners. I used to be a cybersec professional
is this a b8 thread? I really am a marxist.

>>19125210

>>19124646
>we the producers
lol read marx
the point of (real) communism is to give all of the power to the workers. Why is that all right-wingers are this stupid? I mean you have to be pretty dumb for the 0.01% to manipulate you this badly but man it never fails to amuse me...

>>19125306
>give all of the power to the workers

That would just result in anarchy.

>>19125445
>anarchy
uh hello? based department?

My fellow leftists. I apoligise but my camera is broken and I am saving up my Mcdonalds wages for a new one. In the meantime can you post pictures of your flexed biceps because in the last thread you guys posted in the discord /biz/ insinuated we were all "effeminate skinnyfat faggots" and I would like to prove them wrong.

>>19123509
>we have our ways
>pic related

>>19125033
>I fucking pay taxes for them, fuckhead.
That's literally what leftists want lmao. Public services paid for with taxes. What system are you talking about?

>>19125128
>>19125869
All of these things are possible because of the excess wealth produced by MY LABOR you stupid fucking hippie fuckheads. In retarded communism (which has failed everywhere it has been attempted), no one has incentive to produce anything and your economic output is severely crippled because of the inefficiency inherent in a command-economy. The roads are built using a free market, capitalist system btw with different private companies which have proven themselves as capable by surviving in the free market, bid against each other to provide the cheapest price while fulfilling the specifications of the job and ensuring a basic standard of quality.

>>19125445
No it wouldnt
Some structures could emerge(like workers councils with elected leaders)
But yeah many of our current structures of power must fail in order to build a system like that.
Also, i really like the idea behind anarchism, its not about not accepting any structures of power but getting into the habit of asking said structures to justify themselves. Its just a great mindset. For further info look up my boi Noam Chomsky, the oldest anarchist on the planet. Its a pleasure to listen to him talking, hes truly a intellectual giant.

>>19123509
left wing politics don't work because it ignores human nature. as humans we are inherently selfish thats why capitalism works...also right wing people give more too charity because we view people as individuals and not a collective and don't expect the government to serve everything

also how are you guys lefties on a biz/finance board?? isn't the point that we are trying to make money? what businessman is trying to get screwed by unnessasary taxes

>>19124848
>Republicans are a hair-trigger away from being 'marxists, but with jesus n sheeit.
Soo.. national socialist?
Sounds based.

>>19126320
>as humans we are inherently selfish thats why capitalism works
t. booklet

>>19126561
The universe is a zero sum game and reading fairy tales that show the opposite doesn't change that. Read better books.

>>19123509

>>19123509
cringe

>>19126561
capitalism works because we as humans have a self interest in our survival. capitalism is essentially being rewarded for your own work. im interested anon how will communism which literally always failed be a better system?

>>19126594
"but muh utopia"

all left wingers are delusional because they think we can actually have a utopian society on earth that takes out inequality LOLOLOLOL

>>19124017
I'm an immigrant and a minority
give me your money

>>19126639
im an immigrant minority AND trans give me YOUR money

Why don't you fucking degenerates are going to China to work at those labor camps and factories?

Oh, you are imagining yourself as some party boss or a government official? But how, you fucking faggot? For that you have to be born out of a communist party boss wife pussy lmao

Fucking uneducated niggers dreaming of a perfectly working concentration camp.

>>19126594
>>19126606
If humans were inherently selfish, modern society wouldn't exist. Humans have to cooperate to survive.

There are several studies that babies are naturally prosocial and work together e.g.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4306462/

also read Heigl. Humans are a product of their environment, and capitalism promotes and encourages sociopathy and selfishness.

>>19126705
Read Nietzsche you fag.

>>19126728
>Read Nietzsche you fag
ok edgy 14 year old

>>19126728

He is an abstract bullshitter lmao
t. have read him and fucking Hegel

i short REITs before rent controls are legislated, and then use the profits to further fund rent strikes and demonstrations, so that rent controls are legislated, at which point I short those REITs again.

>>19126672
Leftist bullshit always leads to larger government and more strangers deciding what should be done with YOUR money, labor, kids, etc. Fuck off and suck my dick vampires, you people are a cancer.

>>19125445
Readup on Anarcho-Syndicalism brainlet. Ancap isn't real anarchism.

As for the OP, i'd love to provide the capital to start worker owned businesses which profits(besides paying the workers a living wage and providing them healthcare and all things workers should get) get put back into creating more worker owned co-ops. These businesses can then form the basis for a syndicate and would all be unionized.

>>19124017
so you have to become your enemy first
the problem with that is the part where you become your enemy

>>19126705

That means voluntary cooperation, like villagers doing harvesting.

But the motivation is always selfish and instinctual, and, sometimes, rational.

All modern societies has been build by this kind of capitalism system.

Abstract meme bullshit does not work (proven by many examples).

>>19126800
I think people not dying because they can't afford the $300 price of insulin is a good place to start.

>>19126705
we are social which is why we give but we are also selfish in a sense that our priority is us and the ones we love. outside of you and people you find important you don't actually care that much for anyone else I mean u might in a sense that u don't hate them but u wouldn't sacrifice much if anything for a multitude of people you don't know.

socialism only makes sense in the home or small communities made of people you actually trust and care for. socialism was facilitated in the Bible but only because
>it was a relatively small group
>they were Brought together by their love for Christ
>they were being watched over by an all knowing loving and objective God

can't have socialism when the head can't be trusted and your community isn't trusted

>>19126823
>reddit spacing
please follow 4chan's etiquette, subhuman faggot.

Capitalism is decentralized, which makes it more adaptive than anything centralized.

>>19126798
Also, isn’t it funny that all the leftist bullshit always attacks the capitalist/industrialist class as the problem but never goes after the banks and their financial instruments? Hmmm, interesting.

>>19126672
>>19126781
because china is not communist
it never was. Is the power over resources are in the hands of the people who created said resources? If the answer is "no" then its not communism. also the system you and I live in is not "capitalist", its a form of state capitalism where some parts of resource distribution is brought to markets but the state just keeps bailing you out if you fuck up too bad.
>>19126728
i did, not sure how this is related tho
>>19126798
Same, i think this is the only viable way. Pretty based, there are a bunch of good examples out there and these "commie" corporations are actually almost always very successful. I fucking hate tankies who want "revolution" or whatever. Its just not viable.
>>19126800
participating in society with the intention of changing it by good example does not mean you accept the implied values of said society. You have no choice but play the game, if you cant succeed even when chances are against you people will just think of you as a sorry loser.

>>19126889
wtf are you talking about, all lefties hate banks and financial institutions with deep passion. this is a commonality between lefties and right-wingers. i believe that in many cases leftfags and rightfags are actually on the same page(inequality, your labor not compensated fairly, the morbid nightmareish propaganda machine of the mainstream media, etc)

>>19126893
Practicality is important. How a concept is applied in the real world supersedes how it is supposed to work in theory. Because of human nature and the nature of reality in general, I don’t see how your utopian fantasies work in our current paradigm.

>>19126164
>in retarded communism(which has failed everywhere it has been attempted)
This is literally ahistorical. When you look at the USSR, it really worried the US on how fast their economy grew. Truman was worried because "it was providing a model for industrialization in a generation". Keep in mind when comparing with the US that we had been industrializing for 100 years before the USSR. And they lost a huge amount of their workforce in WWII, some 10x what we lost per capita. And they still managed to beat us in the space race(got a satellite up their first, got a man up in space first, got a station set up first, got to venus first etc, only thing we got was a man on the moon first).

I can talk your ear off about the problems of the USSR and why it wasn't good but to say it wasn't efficient and didn't work is wrong.

>>19126320
>as humans we are inherently selfish thats why capitalism works
First off i'd contest that capitalism works in any different way then slavery "worked".

But humans are inherently communalistic, which is why families and tribes work.

>discord tranny circle jerk thread

>>19126944
leftfags and rightfags are on the same page but the rightfags are retarded and think it's the JOOZ and blacks that are the cause and not late stage capitalism

>>19126985
>But humans are inherently communalistic, which is why families and tribes work.
On small scales.

>>19126889
Lol what the fuck are you talking about, lefties are massively in favor of locally owned credit union(its all I ever used and ever will use). Also we're on /biz/ do you think none of us are into crypto because we like the idea of fucking the banks? You're literally the most retarded person i've seen on /biz/ and theres xrptards here.

>>19127006
Would you like to present any evidence on why human nature somehow breaks down after a certain number of people?

>>19127056
The whole point of families and tribes is that they're a group of people close to you. Families and tribes don't work unless you have a bunch of separate families and tribes.

>>19126966
"to say it wasn't efficient and didn't work is wrong"
>millions starved to death
>millions killed as enemies of the state
>millions put in forced labor camps
>millions sent like pigs to slaughter during WW2 because Stalin didn't care about how many men he lost because of the huge amount he had
>literally NO ONE who DIDNT WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT actually liked the USSR and anyone who DIDNT WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT wanted to leave

I hate these larping communist who defend the USSR and never actually spoke to or researched what they were doing to their own people. I almost guarantee that your either upper middle class/wealthy and think its cool because Che Guevara "was like for the people bro" or you don't have any money and instead of being content with that or trying to make more you feel entitled to mine.

>>19127056
anon give me $20

>>19127056
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number
The actual number is debatable, but the concept might be interesting as far as human nature goes.

>>19126944
>>19127021
Traditional communism doesen’t, I don’t know what you’re on about, the main focus is the means of production and the industrialist/capitalist class that owns it. Not the central banks that issue the currency and inflate it until it is worthless and give all the money to their banker pals who buy up the entite economy.

>>19127000
yes ofc
checked
>>19126946
its easy, the example bellow is something you can actually implement right now, not some fantasies
>make something that people find valuable
>produce it, if you need help producing it get some like-minded people to help you(those are your workers)
>exchange said product for money/something you and your workers need, you can even use markets for this
>distribute your income between yourself and your workers
>you and your workers should decide the future of the "company" together
This has been done and rather successfully. This is the future. I see that you have strong emotions against anything thats our current, very unfair and inefficient state capitalism, i cant help but wonder why? The only people who are better off this way are the mega-rich(not the millionaires, think of the billionaire banking/investing dynasties). Are you one of them? If not then maybe it would be good for you to look up some of the things I mentioned in this thread because there are things that you can do right now to make your life(and the people your working with) better.

>>19127130
There were no "centrals banks" like we have now when Marx and other economists invented the theory behind "communism"(which is a vague umbrella-term which makes our conversation unproductive by default). But they would not like what we have now, thats for sure.
The problems with retarded central banks(and the most retarded and biggest of them all, the Fed) are recent, they mostly came with the virtualization of money(the fiat system). Btc is revolutionary because its virtual but still holds value.
Central banks are not capitalist ideas, but not communist either. Privatized banks are not communists for sure.

>>19127132
That's a better approach than most people, but there's some difficult questions.
>distribute your income between yourself and your workers
>you and your workers should decide the future of the "company" together
What's the best way to decide how the money gets distributed? Doesn't make sense to distribute it evenly between everybody regardless of the amount of work done. But it's also difficult to precisely quantify how much work deserves how much money.
>you and your workers should decide the future of the "company" together
Should everybody have equal say, or should it be more like share holders voting? It seems silly for a receptionist to have a vote equal to the founder on the way the company should be run.

>>19127087
>millions starved to death
Same thing under capitalism (look at how terribly the british managed India and how many famines they had which were WAY worse than under the soviet union), under feudalism, under any mode of economy.

>millions killed as enemies of the state/forced labor camps
Did you miss the part where I said I can talk your ear off about why the USSR was bad? I'm 99% sure i'm a better expert on this than you given you literally can't even read to the end of a post. Even so these things don't mean the system didn't work.

The USSR put millions in forced labor camps to achieve industrialization, the US merely had slaves for CENTURIES. Ask me which one I think is preferable. But somehow you think the US system works and the USSR one didnt. The USSR only started falling apart after it started undergoing capitalist reform which threw it right back into the 3rd world.

>>19127276
im black anon you don't have to tell me about slavery. Communism will NEVER work because it ignores human nature and assumes we can create a utopian society. your communist ideas are terrible and will NEVER work. like I said your some rich larper or someone who's poor and feels entitled to others work, time, and money.

>>19127276
anon serious question are u some the son of someone wealth or are u poor(not trying to be offensive but I couldn't think of another word)

>>19126859

Your mum

>>19123509
I guess this is me, kind of drunk right now so bear with me.

I believe strongly in social services and taxation, but at the same time I've totally given up on politics. Its just a bunch of dickweeds who are good at marketing in it for the sole purpose of self preservation. 90% of all government jobs could be eliminated without anyone noticing. I think if we got rid of the welfare state, eliminated all jobs related to it, and automated the process to a simple universal income, the end result would be a net positive. I'm Canadian, however our economy is basically tethered the US like a sad puppy, so I'm speaking about our economies as one (they basically are).

I would be well out of the tax bracket where a universal income would actually make a difference in my life, and the net result for me would be negative, but if my numbers are correct Canada would save about $30B CAD annually if welfare and all associated services were eliminated, and every citizen above the age of 18 received a $2000/month cheque. Our taxes would remain the same, and more people would benefit in a more efficient manner. These people working these useless paper pushing jobs could actually do something of value with their time and abilities.

My plan is to make enough money to buy an island and pay for supplies to be regularly delivered (obviously with adequate infrastructure to receive these shipments most likely by plane). I'm so fucking done with our society's bullshit. There is no left and right, you morons are just being played to keep the wheels turning.

>>19127259
well, just hire a receptionist who has a coherent vision of the goals of the company. Inform them so they can make good decisions. But i digress, it is silly to call a vote for everyday decision making, thats what leaders are for! In a commie company(tm) workers can vote for their managers and if things are going in a direction that most people dislike then the workers have the power to change things. So yeah, a legitimate group of leaders could make the everyday decisions while respecting the common goals and values that all of the group shares. The same goes with distributing resources, the compensation for each role could be voted for.
>>19127315
>>19127337
Bro I work my ass off and i am pretty successful. I never accepted any help from my family because most of them are abusive piece of shits and I wanted to find out my real worth. What im saying is not ignoring human nature as you dont think that people are selfish dumb bastards and I personally believe that most people are honest, selfless and rational if they are not being manipulated.

>>19127102
I'll do you 5x better. But because its not about you or me, I decided on giving it to Doctors without Borders since its about helping those who are most needy.

>>19126893
>it never was.
Tell that to Mao you fucking imbecile.

At least on paper in China everything is People's. People's this, people's that.

There is no such thing as "in hands of people". However, every single truck is is a cooperation of many people for profit and it does not require that the truck must be in hands of a fucking driver.

Real economics (supply/demand/private property) beats any fucking utopia.

Fucking subhuman degenerates. Go back to /pol/ lmao

>doctors without borders
Chump move, should have paid that anon instead.
>>19127337
He seems to be pretty wealthy if he can pay $100 to try winning an internet argument.

>>19127366
>most people are honest selfless and rational
bro I literal laughed out loud. and no I dont think People are dumb bastards but we live our lives doing things for us and people we care about. people are neither angels nor devils but their motivated by there own interest. the interest of others is important to us but in most cases our interest come first.

>I worked my butt off and im pretty succesfull
well let me have some of that money than anon since your for redistribution. you didn't work hard for your society anon you did it for yourself and for those you love which is perfectly fine.

It doesn't even relate to the argument. That anon was trying to illustrate how you won't treat him like a member of your family. If I ask my brother for $20, and he donates it to some charity instead he would be a bad brother.

>>19127454
This guy gets it.

>>19127337
If i'm being honest, half and half(im mixed so half my family was white from wealth and half was mexican from poverty). Have the education of upper middle class/upper class but i've worked in the fields/in retail which is actually what lead me to realize how shafted the workers of the world are.

>>19127315
I'm not even a communist bro. I'm an anarcho-synidcalist. I've never called for communism, and only in a very superficial sense could I be called a marxist. All I was arguing with you is that your understand of communism and the USSR was ahistorical.

>>19127355
i empathize deeply. Im also in favour of BUI and Im also a person who would not benefit from it
>>19127405
lmao nice
>>19127410
>Tell that to Mao
it doesnt matter what mao calls his shithole, its still not communist
>Real economics (supply/demand/private property)
brainlet detected, you have no idea what "economics" are do you? Let me help you out, economics are all about resource distributing systems, structures that people can use to distribute resources between them. Market theory uses the terms you brought up(supply/demand) but markets are not the only way to distribute resources. And you do need to distribute resources so every member of society can focus on producing a single thing and then somehow exchange the product of their labor between themselves. I know this because economics(again, the science of distributing resources) deeply interest me so I educated myself. I advise you to do the same.
>>19127454
>>19127463
>gimme ur money commie
no. why would i share my resources with people i dont know? the other anon who gave the money to charity did the reasonable thing, you give to charity because you believe they are doing something that benefits society as a whole. This argument is flashy but if you think of it it becomes to fall apart. In "communist" or whatever your stuff/property/collection of hentai/money stays with you. Its your stuff, nobody wants to redistribute it as long youre fucking using it, that would be insane.

>>19127366
>well, just hire a receptionist who has a coherent vision of the goals of the company. Inform them so they can make good decisions. But i digress, it is silly to call a vote for everyday decision making, thats what leaders are for! In a commie company(tm) workers can vote for their managers and if things are going in a direction that most people dislike then the workers have the power to change things. So yeah, a legitimate group of leaders could make the everyday decisions while respecting the common goals and values that all of the group shares. The same goes with distributing resources, the compensation for each role could be voted for.
I've got nothing against people trying this, as long as they don't force me into joining their organization or force me to run my company that way. If it turns out to be effective, good for them.

>>19127538

So, you are just a sick fuck idiologist.

Please, leave back to /pol/.

>>19127578
>still seething
why are you this scared lol

>>19127532
>anarcho-synidcalist.
I have no idea what that is could you explain it please?

>>19127538
>Would you like to present any evidence on why human nature somehow breaks down after a certain number of people?
>no. why would i share my resources with people i dont know?
I don't want his money. Just seems like a dumb way to try proving his point. Basically the choice of donation just helps show that if you're in too large of a group you won't care about every other person in it enough to treat them like members of a small tribe or family.

fuck off you lefty cunt

>>19127587
>why are you this scared lol
Probably because he doesn't like the idea of people trying to do something like Mao again, unintentionally or not.

>>19127538
>In "communist" or whatever your stuff/property/collection of hentai/money stays with you. Its your stuff, nobody wants to redistribute it as long youre fucking using it, that would be insane.

thats redistribution of wealth which is core to communism. if I have more hentai body pillows than my neighbor that is a form of inequality which needs to be rectified by force from the government

>>19127538
>In "communist" or whatever your stuff/property/collection of hentai/money stays with you. Its your stuff, nobody wants to redistribute it as long youre fucking using it, that would be insane.
I'm using my second house by renting it out. You're right, it's fucking insane to want to take it from me.

>>19127538
>i empathize deeply. Im also in favour of BUI and Im also a person who would not benefit from it
There's really no reason not to. We pump more money into "providing services" than could actually be provided just by giving these people some money. People being poor keeps them poor, you give a guy some cash (that would be otherwise spent on bullshit that keeps government gears spinning) and suddenly his life starts turning around. And I've literally seen it firsthand too, with people I've hired, trained and recommended to be hired at competing companies (I recommend clients and potentials hires that arent quite the right fit to technically competing companies quite often). The problem is we as a society stopped building shit and switched over to an entirely service-based economy dependent on nickel and diming ourselves to death. North America doesn't really make anything great anymore, American steel is really good, and we have oil, but that's basically it.

What's funny is that I'm equally guilty of it, and make all my money essentially middle-manning people, but holy fuck is it depressing when you actually think about it.

>>19123509
>>19124017
>>19124220
>>19124338
Fuck off disgusting commie discord trannies.

>>19127454
>>19127463
>hurr you like socialism, that means you should give 20 bucks too everyone who asks for it

Literally the most braindead reading possible. You guys give me the impression, i hate to have to say it, of someone who has never read the literature contrary to your view.

The idea of helping those who are in worse positions than you is entirely lost on you. If my brother actually needed help,or if I could actually verify you guys needed help I would totally help within my means(rather than just some random anon asking for 20 to make a point how only a retard would just throw 20 bucks to some random on the internet).

>>19127630
this. I hate the idea of communism because it bring demagogues who think that their super specific form of leftist ideology that has never ever been tried before will work. all we have to do is take away peoples freedom of choice which is the ultimate thing that leads to inequality in the first place(unless the government interferes like with slavery). not to mention they have to bring equality of outcome to every person when we arent equal to begin with.

for example I will never be Jeff Bezos. maybe because im not as smart or not white or whatever but the MAIN reason is because I don't want to be like him. I don't care about money as much as him. if I did id have alot more. me and him will not have an equal outcome because we don't make equal choices which is perfectly fine

>>19127532
>56% mutt
lol classic
>>19127593
it's a building block of communism, power to the workers meme which is all well and good on paper. when installed in practice leads straight to communism when a psychopath comes in and takes over with force because the big chair at the top is vacant.

>>19127691
>The idea of helping those who are in worse positions than you is entirely lost on you
Not at all. I think you're a bit petty and weird for donating over a 4chan argument, but good for you helping people.
>how only a retard would just throw 20 bucks to some random on the internet
Exactly. So large groups are different than small tight groups. Meaning the post provided the evidence you asked for in "Would you like to present any evidence on why human nature somehow breaks down after a certain number of people?"

>if I could actually verify you guys needed help I would totally help within my means
But you can't verify that easily in a large, disconnected group. Proving that he made a good point.

>>19127691
anon here is redistribution summed up

if man A gives buys something for himself he is not only interested in the price because hes paying for it but also for the quality of the product because it will be his.

If man A buys something for man B he will be interested in the price because hes paying for it but not as much in the quality because its not his.

If man C takes man A's money in order to give it to man B, he is not interested in the price because the money isn't his and he can just get more from man A and he is not interested in the quality because its not for him. Man C is simply a middle man that takes money and destroys incentive.

>>19127703
diet communism then gotcha

>56% mutt
>lol classic

>>19127593
The very simple explanation is that the state isn't necessary, society could be organized through a system of syndicates that work through direct democracy and then these syndicates form a higher union. Historical examples include Catalonia during the spanish civil war which was highly successful(before they were crushed by the nazi backed facists).

>>19127691
also anon charity is good because its someone voluntarily giving up their wealth to someone who needs it. the one giving it up feels good because hes doing a good deed and the one taking it feels gratitude towards the person he receives it from.

when the government facilitates it the man paying for it feels screwed because hes having his money taken by force and the one receiving it feels entitled because its his governmental right to someone else's money.

if I put a gun to your head and take $100 dollars from you and give it to charity I still robbed u, and you don't get the satisfaction of giving because it wasn't a choice. thats what redistribution is

>>19123509
I'm buying the staking coins I know will 100x, then I'm selling along the way when I need money. UND will be big.

>>19127787
direct democracy is terrible desu. it devolves into "well what can u give me". all you have to do is divide up a nation by its ethnicity and promise the majority group free things(thats why democrats want to demolish the electoral college and bring in more illegals)

>>19127612
I see. I admit that the us vs them logic is a good motivator but i believe that a modern socialist system(like the socialist company I explained earlier) could benefit everybody involved. Thats not about being "nice" anymore, its just better for everybody this way. The hoarder is not happier just because they have 1000 hentai pillows when some poor anons have none.
>>19127630
yes thats fair. i dislike people who try to hide the sins of these horrible systems. But remember, nobody i the right mind supports them, not even lefties. Its like with conservatives, i know that they are not le nazies and they have good reasons to think like that. I just chose to live my life in a different way.
>>19127644
>>19127653
No. Owning two estates is not "hoarding". But a company owning hundreds and renting them out at once, manipulating the market to push rent higher is deplorable in my opinion and something that should not exist.
>>19127693
sure but things could be a lot better for you too if a very selected few(not even people but mindless, artificial, profit-driven entities like private corporations) didnt hoard all the resources for themselves. And not just you, everybody. Modern economics show that in most cases "scarcity" is manufactured, theres no reason why we couldnt live in a post-scarcity society. Theres no logical reason why homeless/starving people should exist, theres resources available for everyone without taking actually used resources from anybody. I think we will eventually shed our stupid ways of hoarding resources(which is an archaic instinct of our species).

>>19126798
Anarcho-Syndicalism isn't real anarchism either, fuck the end to the neverending struggle against power, the only end is whithin power, fuck that. That can be through socialism or through corporate safety fuck em' all dog. STRAIGHT SOUTH ANARCHIST KILL EM ALL. COMMIES & AND CORPORATISTS EVERYONE GETS TO FUCKING DIE

>>19127849
I've read my hobbes, I've read my marx, my engels, my locke, my fucking smith property rights fucking shit fuck it all in the face of a gun, GG Allin is above this gay ass commie/capitalist argument.

>>19127836
>No. Owning two estates is not "hoarding".
I agree, but opinions vary on that. I see people being called parasites all the time for being landlords of any kind. You're much more reasonable than them.

>>19127836
it sounds like u mainly hate crony capitalism(which I do to ALOT). the reason we are like this today in America is due to government mixing with private business. alot of our politicians are simply doing the whims of their donors (not all but a good amount).

>>19127836
Muh "SHOULD NOT EXIST" welcome to reality heres a coffee wave goodbye to your mum you faggot.

the funniest thing about the chapo trap house guys is how pathetically stereotypical they are. the upper middle class latte sipping juul puffing pseudointellectual urbanite white millenial marxist cringelords. they're literally parodies of themselves. i had no clue who they were until my gf dragged me to one of their live shows last february. the whole thing was basically just a bernie rally. the atmosphere was very cultish, whenever they mentioned elizabeth warren everyone booed and hissed. and whenever they regurgitated some sanctimonious decade old occupy wallstreet meme factoid the crowd erupted in "YASSSSSSSS CORRECT CORRECT WOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" frenzy. i am lebanese and i was literally the least white person there. it was literally one of the lamesy things i have ever seen, i mean they even smoked juuls on stage. sitting there watching these smug trust fund babies run some awkward politically charged "comedy" show unironically reminded me of how hitler was able to come to power.

>>19127894
Stereotyping people is for commies who believe in class, go fuck yourself.

>>19127836
also we will always have homeless/poor people. our definition of poor shifts. American "poor" is Zimbabwe middle class.and many people who are homeless have serious issues. if it was as easy as just building them a house we would have done it a while ago. I hate taxes and I gladly would have built some homes if that meant no more homeless people. but due to mental illness and sometimes even a desire to live on the street they will always be here. Also Jesus himself said we will always have the poor.

>>19123509
Depends what you mean by "Left". Do you mean you're a cointelpro bourgie liberal who backs everything that serves the interests of megacorps, but it's ok because you bought a Che t-shirt in a Chinese-made slave labor factory? Or an actual Leftist?

Regardless, I want to use smart contracts & DAOs to create a dual-power system of co-ops, mutuals & generally worker-owned businesses, with the governance based loosely off of the Chilean VSM model. Cryptos might be filled with lolbergs, but they're just as capable of being used to facilitate Socialist economics as well.

Im a lefty with some righty tendencies,
but all this shit is retarded and fucked up.
Should just wipe the slate clean and restart.

>>19127894
most of them are larpers playing freedom fighter. same goes with racial politics. they treat black people like dumb children who need daddy government to help with everything because they've never actually interacted with us. far right racist are terrible because their ignorant and hateful but the ones who are far left are smug and fake. I hate both

>>19126841
Why? They should have thought of that when they were drinking all that soda.

>>19127964
Wouldn't smart contracts just be a way to get around the problem of coincidental needs that money solved rather than the abolition of private ownership as you're insinuation, you're not making sense to me my man plz explain further.

>>19127849
>>19127871
>>19127883
based cokehead what even are you trying to say
>>19127874
well yeah some left-wingers lose sight of the fact that we should really target the unreasonable disgustingly rich, and not even them but the corporations and corrupt states they invented. And some of that is trolling too, its like a conservative calling you a fucking nigger when they are not really racist themselves.
>>19127927
>also we will always have homeless/poor people
i disagree but i realize that at this point this is more about ideology... I think that most homeless have some serious mental health issues but i find really fucked up the fact that our governments would rather waste billions of dollars bailing out banks/financial institutions and investing in a retarded military while some of their citizens(like a disturbingly large amount) are left starving on the streets while there are people who would help them if they were compensated at least a bit fairly. Like there are a bunch of people who would gladly become become social workers but they cant do that because they have more ambition than being just above the poverty line. I know a bunch of people like that and I also know people who chose to be poor for the rest of their lives just to help people because this is what they make them happy. Not supporting them is a huge mistake. We live in a system thats both a nanny state but still manages to live their mentally ill citizens on the side of the road confused and helpless. This is the opposite of a civilized well err civilization in my opinion.

>>19127800
So instead of thinking about whats the best way to make a good society, you worry about "i wont fee fee so good if I don't get to pick :^(", but thats exactly untrue, I don't mind at all when I vote on resolutions to increase taxes for school funding, or a 1 cent higher gas tax to improve road conditions. What I do mind is when corporations take our money to continue their vulturistic capitalist practices that nobody but our self appointed rulers agree on.

>>19127833
>direct democracy devolves into "well what can you give me"
Would love to see your evidence for this since you cite an example that isn't direct democracy.

Also its interesting that you think people voting for the policies that benefit them the most is somehow bad. No wonder you love the current system of shit that doesn't work for them.

>>19123509
>>19124017
based

>>19128056
I'm saying that you're projected moral compass on your surroundings is your own gay ass struggle for power and you're a faggot. Next question.

>>19128056
Like don't get me wrong struggling for power is glorious, but drop the moral mumblejumble of your material dialectic forefathers that shit is GAY.

>>19127894
I agree. They're a fucking embarrassment.

>>19127978
Earlier communists weren't fans of degenerate crap either. Unironic NazBol & Tankies (and similar, serious, no-bullshit systems) are the future.

>>19128067
What is based about believeing in power structures that do not exist today. I fucking cringe when someone says they are of the right, like oh so you're part of the emerging capitalist class in the fucking 18th century who believe the monarchists are good because they protect you're power just as Strawman king Marx said you are ok sweet you fucking fag retard... the self proclaiming left as almost as retard "yeah I am part of the emerging working class trying to struggle through the powers of my monarchal and industrial revolutionist oppressors" like move out of the city and get on with your life jesus christ ya'll always have somebody to blame, its pathetic.

>>19128127
What do you like being hungry to you fucking retard?

>>19128056
I've known homeless people that will refuse help. Including some that are clearly mentally ill. It's true that there will always be people that want to wander around, whether it's good for them or not. But of course there's plenty of homeless people that could be helped more too.
>>19128087
Yes, struggling for power is glorious. I'll struggle for power so I can use that power to protect people and their freedom, and prevent those who want to harm them from gaining power.

>>19128076
>>19128087
I still dont understand, how is anything what i say is a struggle for power? I mean kinda, I want to have the power over how I chose to live my life to a certain extent
>struggle for power is glorious
why lol, if you ever held power yourself you would know how hard is it. even hiring people and working with them is stressful because your responsible for them. also, most of the stuff that i posted about has nothing to do with moralism. i truly believe that there are better ways to organize work/distribute resources. Like 99.99% of people would be better off in a system that doesnt let renting companies to pray on the poor for example. Or retarded, manipulative advertisements to exist. Theres nothing moralistic about this, its pure practicality.

commies need to swing

>>19128150
Well admit yourself as a pseudo fascist and move on from the righteousness.

>>19128063
>No wonder you love the current system of shit that doesn't work for them.
I just talked about how I hate crony capitalism that involves our government screwing the people to help corporations.

>So instead of thinking about whats the best way to make a good society, you worry about "i wont fee fee so good if I don't get to pick"
governments have not made schools better by throwing money at them. if it worked like that we would have great inner city schools(we don't). also your missing the point. when u give money to someone freely you are committing a selfless act and forming a bond simultaneously, your fostering a sense of responsibility to the one receiving it which is important in building a society. when you force some ones money to redistribute it you create resentment towards the lower class and an entitlement complex from those that receive it. your creating a divide essentially.

>>19128156
Write a book about what you think practicality is then bro i'm not stopping you. Just make sure your name is in capslock at the top

>>19128171
How does that make me a fascist though?

>>19128150
kill yourself dude

>>19128187
Why?

>>19123509
Human of African descent, we post ideology full pragmatism now.

class struggle is a myth

>>19128063
I forgot the book but its by Thomas sowell. it outlines the problems with democracy.

>Also its interesting that you think people voting for the policies that benefit them the most is somehow bad.

again u missed my entire point. in America white people are the majority. the moment we turn to a direct democracy all u have to do is say "hey white people ill give u free stuff" and u won. minority votes don't matter at all. you have majority rule essentially

>No wonder you love the current system of shit that doesn't work for them.

never said that. stop with this holier then thou crap.

>>19128186
not actual fascist as in you will be part of a private company and a state member, but pseudo fascist as in you will use your power, which in essence will be economic &/or corporate power to stop people doing what they want. I mean pseudo fascist as in what people thing fascism is in 2020, you're that.

>>19128225
I love you and you are right brother. You can have some of my wine anytime.

>>19128150
>I've known homeless people that will refuse help. Including some that are clearly mentally ill. It's true that there will always be people that want to wander around, whether it's good for them or not. But of course there's plenty of homeless people that could be helped more too.

exactly. if it was just as easy as making homes for homeless people almost everyone would be on board.no one likes to see homeless people

>>19128149
That's a retarded meme & you know it. Soviet Union had no issues with food beyond that earlier famine - and the US had the dustbowl around the same time. You gonna sit there & claim no Capitalist country ever had food shortages or supply chain disruptions? Please.

Besides, I think collectivism is going to happen regardless - only question is in what form. I'd rather see technology used to make socialism less retarded, as I just don't think Capitalism has a future (not that the current system is Capitalism either really anyway). Or do you think the government printing trillions to support zombie corporations is a free market, or remotely efficient?

>>19128263
You can keep praying for your prophecy all you want bro the Christians have been at it for 1000s of years, best of luck to you.

humans will never be equal

>>19128183
Crony capitalism is the logical extension of capitalism. If you allow corporations to obtain capital and use this capital they will absolutely use that power to exert influence over the political process in ways that benefit themselves. This is literally braindead obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 5 seconds.

>you create resentment towards the lower class
Sounds like a problem you only get in an incredibly propagandized class society. What entitlement complex arises because every other first world guarantees healthcare as a right to their citizens? What entitlement complex arises because of paid sick leave? What entitlement arises Its obvious you've eaten the US propaganda oatmeal. Try to think for yourself instead of just thinking what the corporations have spent billions of dollars getting you to think.

>>19128263
No I don't think the government should exist, nor do I believe in collectivism per se', like I do but as I do believe in individualism. Straight south anarchist mofo, no syndicate no capitalist.

>>19128225
the entire 20th century proved nationalism is more of a driving factor. race and ethnicity are also stronger factors along side religion. class can be changed in a instance. you can gain 1 million overnight(unlikely but possible) race and ethnicity can't be changed, religion is a calling from God, and no matter what if your born in American and raised there you are an American.

>>19128281
wow much insight useful post wow doge.jpeg.

>he's STILL LARPing as a disgruntled 19th century industrial worker
can't you fucks come up with a new ideology?
we've been doing the same shit for 200 years now

>>19128282
>Crony capitalism is the logical extension of capitalism.
unironically agree. the same way totalitarianism is the logical extension of communism
id take crony capitalism anyday over totalitarian communism

>>19128238
If that's your definition of pseudo fascist, I'm fine with that and have no problem with it. I'm fully for stopping people from doing whatever they want. If stopping somebody from murdering makes you a fascist, then it's not much of an insult.
>>19128226
Yeah, representative democracy makes a lot more sense for large electorates. On top of that, you can't vote on everything, you need something like the constitution to prevent people from voting away their freedom.

>>19128322
Mah charging people for tampons is murdur!

>>19128341
No it's not.

>>19128322
Sorry about mah tampons comment i feel dumb, what are you basing your definition of freedom on? Hume and Locke's property rights or what?

>>19128304
Modern leftist ideologies are not the same as those from the 19th century, and there is not even one single leftist ideology, there are hundreds of variations. And in fact the core concepts have never been more relevant now that automation is threatening to render the capitalistic system completely broken in the near future. Some kind of leftist system involving basic income etc will be unavoidable.

Also specifically tell me what is your Neitzcheian claim to power for saving peoples lives and where does it come from? Like did you decide that this is your life goal somewhere down the line and you're like "yep i'mma go for that", i'm curious I won't dickbag tard comment anymore I promise.

>>19124528
What is the point of a moneyless society

>>19128282
bro stop with the holier than thou attitude. your some larper playing revolutionary repeating what u heard at college. your going through your rebellious faze rn, just give it some time once u grow up you'll see that your far left ideas are terrible and they will never work anywhere ever.

>Crony capitalism is the logical extension of capitalism.

its not inevitable. we need laws banning corporate money from politicians. also decentralize the power as well(it was supposed to be that way already).
capitalism has flaws because it involves humans. the reason its better then Communism is because it treats humans like humans

>>19128358
Don't worry about it, I post stuff without thinking all the time for the hell of it. Hume and Locke is part of it, yeah. Too hard to go into detail, since I've got to leave pretty quick.

>>19128226
I've read Sowell. The problem with him and other right thinkers(there's a very short list of intellectuals the right has, Sowell is among the best) is that they imagine a world and work from that framework. So in their imagined world things work like X and then Y couldn't possibly work because then it would violate X. Its actually all very logical and persuasive because its self contained. He's not a dumb guy. The problem is that they never actually examine the actual world to see how things actually work.

Try reading Understand Power by Noam Chomsky(like 10x the intellect of Sowell) if you want to see how the world really works. Chomsky actually knows how to do research.

>>19128369
>Like did you decide that this is your life goal somewhere down the line and you're like "yep i'mma go for that"
Basically yeah

>>19128285
deluded manchild

>>19128383
Chomsky knows how to do linguistics research and that's about it.

Just getting back into chapo myself OP

>>19123509
I vote for far left parties

>>19123509
Its great to understand that you are still a child. I am happy to see how you grow in your adult experience.

>>19125004
No one has a natural born right to the property of others. I would not expect to drive on roads for free if my taxes (and car rego, etc.) didn't give me that right

>>19128396
I got 2 degrees, a job in my field and a family of my own, go fuck yourself.

>>19125128
>>19125869
Taxes pay for roads, that's how it is - not what free market libertarians advocate for

>>19128383
as a christian I read the Bible and its my final authority on what I think and the lense from what I see the world through. from a biblical perspective marxist ideology is not only non sensical (having a utopia) but also immoral and ultimately unable to work. im not a "pure" capitalist but its the best system we've got. the problem isn't the system however its human beings. if humans weren't sinful then a communist like utopia would be possible and capitalism wouldn't be needed.

>>19124538
Trading and speculation is against everything commies stand for. A trader is the ultra porky, a crypto trader is the giga porky, because on top of being a parasite he evaded the government control.

>>19124948
>i wasn't born with enough middle fingers

>>19123509
Nice psyop niggers, time to go back into bunkerchan.

>>19128455
>as a christian I read the Bible and its my final authority on what I think
How about them mixed fabrics

>>19128367
You do realize that it requires taxation and most people here go out of their way to avoid paying any taxes?
I have 3 offshore shell companies and didn't pay a single penny in taxes in 5 years and no one is able to make me to.
If commies come to power by any chance I'm hiding all my wealth in stablecoins and jumping the border.

And that's what every rich person does. Good luck living in poverty when no one will give you money, commie. The current system functions, because they government guarantees the safety of the revenue in exchange for taxes.Once this is gone, there is no reason to pay any taxes at all, since there is 0 ROI.

>>19128558
do u know what the old covenant and new covenant are? your assumption of my hypocrisy stems from a lack of understanding of scripture. im not coming down on you but when people say "well what about eating pork" or something like that it shows that there critic is coming from ignorance

>>19128558
>"Christians generally have the view that the New Covenant supersedes (i.e., replaces) the Old Testament's ritual laws, which includes many of the rules in Leviticus."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Leviticus

>>19128558
Mixed fabrics are old testament, which Jesus abolished. Commie education, everyone.

>>19128598
>old testament, which Jesus abolished
LOL

>>19128621
abolished isn't the best word but he fulfilled it. we now praise him through faith and truth and not by the law.

Honestly not surprised christcucks don’t even know about their own shitty faith

>>19128455
>my final authority is a fairy tale
Why bother thinking about anything when a book is just gonna tell you what to think anyways? Also can you please read Acts 4:32 for me and tell me whether it sounds like capitalism or communism.

>>19128586
>>19128593
>>19128598
Lmao keep eating that propaganda oatmeal.
>But that was the old testament covenant and the new covenant supersedes it!
Wait but what did jesus have to say.. Lets read Matthew 5:17-19

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

Have the heavens and earth passed away?? Looks like you still have to follow the old law to the smallest letter and the least stroke of a pen!

The new covenant comes from the pauline epistles, of which I think its like 6 out of the 13 of them are literal forgeries, LITERAL FANFICTION. You guys should read textual criticism. But thats american education for you.

>>19128680
"communism" only works in that instance because
A. they were all christians coming together because of their love of Christ
B. they were ultimately ruled over by and objective all knowing God and not man.

I literally said it works if we weren't sinful. while these people were sinful they strived not to be together through the power of the Holy Spirit and were ruled over by God.

>>19128680
Matthew 16:26
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?"

Yup this is definitely a capitalistic viewpoint, when I walk down rodeo drive or wall street I know this is what jesus envisioned when giving that quote.

>>19123509
The 2019 UK election taught me you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. The poor in our country sorely needed a socialist government, the thing is, they don’t deserve it. They’re stupid enough to vote for Boris and brexit, which still has no benefits whatsoever. Revolutions, political or otherwise, only happen when the elite have no more wealth to extract from the masses (see book Secular Cycles), and they side with the masses to support the revolution. So until that happens, get rich, keep your head down, and enjoy your life.

>>19128680
>Looks like you still have to follow the old law to the smallest letter and the least stroke of a pen!

no just no. in Galatians 5 Paul talks about how we are saved by grace alone and not our works. we are saved by the grace of God and we worship him in spirit and truth. in Galatians 3.24 Paul talks about how the law was a tutor to ultimately leads to faith in Christ. the book of Galatians in general destroys the argument that we are justified by the law as christians.

>The new covenant comes from the pauline epistles, of which I think its like 6 out of the 13 of them are literal forgeries

"hey satan we can't really twist this scripture to prove out argument its really specific and well written"

"jus say its fake bro"

"oh okay!"

Capitalism is better than the previous system but it needs to end this century if we have any chance of surviving climate change. Any capitalist is cocky until they run into the climate change brick wall and then it’s an unsolvable problem for them.

>>19124925
>government buys a company's stocks
>that's capitalism
anon that is literally nationalization

>>19128719
>communism only works in that instance because they were christians coming together
Wtf, dont those stupid christians know they cant overcome their nature to be selfish? Like its impossible!!

Even IF socialism/leftist thoughts were against human nature you've already admitted that ideology can overcome it. But there's no reason to think that human nature is against leftist ideas.

Also god isnt real.

>>19128680
bro I mean this in all sincerity u have an elementary understanding of scripture that primarily consists of quick googles and what u remembered from Sunday School. I hope and pray that u come to the knowledge of Christ.

>>19127000
We say that jews and niggers are a symptom of late-stage capitalism, such as brining in blacks as slaves and using them as cheap labor which has now resulted in blacks being allowed in society, which causes crimes to skyrocket. I fwew has antional-scoialist system we would never have allowed foreign people on our soil.

>>19128769
>Climate change
KEK

>>19123509
Do you realize the AI revolution will be the final nail in the coffin for you?

>>19123509
Excellent bait, OP.

>>19128726
no one saying that capitalisms perfect. greed is corrosive and the love of money is the root of many evils. however its the best system we have. the world will always be terrible because of people and the only utopia that will exist is when Christ returns

>>19128769
cringe, capitalism is the most efficient allocation of resources. Pollution represents a loss in profit to firms large and small so it's in their best interest to reduce pollution and waste.

Governments are the biggest polluters any way and they have no actual reason to reduce their pollution because they receive tax revenue whether they pollute or not. Also wars are extremely bad for climate change, another purely government phenomenon.

>still arguing about communism
>when the greatest rising nation on the planet is currently making huge strides because it has more competition and a more free market than even America in some parts

>>19128766
Do you even know what textual criticism is? Do you realize every priest when they go to seminary have to take courses on textual criticism and learn how to do this analysis of determining authorship, historicity etc? Its not controversial amongst bishops/priests/popes to admit that half the pauline epistles are forgeries not actually written by Paul. Do you think Matthew was written by Matthew? Luke was written by Luke?

Hey here's a fun fact that i'm sure you've never known. You know that famous story about the adulterer where the pharisees come to ask jesus if she should be stoned? You know that story is LITERALLY fanfiction? It didn't start appearing in manuscripts until about the 500's! How crazy is that, the most famous story of Jesus was a later invention.

Go ahead and look up all the scholars(with like 99% of them being christians) who've done all this analysis if you want.

>>19128781
>Also god isnt real.
corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

this conversation is essential done because u won't understand the points that im making. anon I genuinely hope u let go of the pride and anger in your heart. you know God is real u just substitute it for something else(money, women, yourself, etc). everyone has a god but only one of them is the true God

>>19128783
Demonstrate it then, the fact that you didn't even know half the pauline epistles were written by paul makes me think you have no idea about anything. I mean you cant even come up with a retort to what I said about jesus not coming to abolish the law(really a retort to jesus telling him why he was wrong).

>>19128832
>Go ahead and look up all the scholars(with like 99% of them being christians)

their not. id go as far to say that most arent.most have heretical views which would automatically disqualify them from the faith

>every priest

im not catholic idc what they believe

>Hey here's a fun fact that i'm sure you've never known. You know that famous story about the adulterer where the pharisees come to ask jesus if she should be stoned? You know that story is LITERALLY fanfiction? It didn't start appearing in manuscripts until about the 500's! How crazy is that, the most famous story of Jesus was a later invention.

"if you can't argue it just say its false bro"

If a planned economy is so inefficient, why did we switch to it during WWII?

>>19128855
>I mean you cant even come up with a retort to what I said about jesus not coming to abolish the law(really a retort to jesus telling him why he was wrong).

corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

have a goodnight anon. I pray that u soften your heart. we all have problems letting go of pride. I know from experience

>>19128584
>If commies come to power by any chance I'm hiding all my wealth in stablecoins and jumping the border.
Ok, go live in a shithole country that will let you keep your pointless excess then, but you do not speak for everyone. I live in a country where we are already well on our way to such a system, taxes are high but people gladly pay it because it's worth it compared to the ultra-capitalist dog-eat-dog rat race.

>>19126219
>Some structures could emerge(like workers councils with elected leaders)

The slippery slope towards "elected" dictatorships all over again.

>>19128842
Wallahi you kuffar, truly the only god is allah and muhammad is his prophet. This is evidenced by the Quran 5:40 "and only the evil who don't love their mother will deny that allah is god. Only those with hatred and anger in their heart who substitue the one true god would deny it"
Smh bro, how can you have all that hatred and anger in your heart

>>19128870
Lmao its just a historical fact, no early biblical manuscripts have that story in it. Just do the research bro, its not even a catholic thing, every seminary school teaches this shit to their priests. I know this is all new to you but none of its heretical, its been establish for centuries.

>>19128933
>people gladly pay
Your glue huffing friends with no income aren't people.

>>19128941
huh? so youre a really really hardcore anarchist?
i dont understand this argument, dictatorships were never concerned with being legitimate, democratic structures. they power lies in the military and police. One of the first thing Lenin and Trockij did was abolishing the worker councils. This marks the end of "communism" in russia as it took power AWAY from the workers. It was over before it began. Everything after this is just propaganda.
>>19128979
lol live him alone xd

>>19128933
>I live in a country where we are already well on our way to such a system
I'd like to know the name of this "great country"

>>19128933
Where are you from?

>>19128941
Anarchists were well aware of that problem decades before the issues of dictatorships arose and posited different solutions. Its a serious concern. If you're interested in what anarchists thought Bakunin is where to start.

>>19123509
f I was allowed to, I would kill all communists, all liberals asking for more taxes, everyone really who wants to take my shit.

>>19129092
>Bakunin
my second favorite bearded russian philosopher

Hardcore national socialism of the civic variety is probably the only thing that ensures the DoTR for corrupt public officials so it's relabeled as leftism instead of workers rights.

>>19129138
bullcrap.. national socialism was another way of communism. just done the 'right' political way. In the end it meant insects work till you are old and die. And a few selected ones, fine get rich.

>>19129130
Nice, who's number one?

>>19129171
Marx!

>>19129184
Lol marx was german but yeah he's def the best bearded philosopher and thats a tough field.

>>19129127
and if i was allowed to, i would kill you

I donate to a few anti migrant groups in Greece and Italy. I'm a leftist and have no idea why so many leftists are pro mass immigration, they should be pro-workers of that country, and workers wages, living status, and health of the country are all impacted by third world immigration (mostly the kind where they come illegally on boats.)

>Another lefty/pol/ raid

>>19129250
>I donate to a few anti migrant groups in Greece and Italy
Tell me the name of those groups

>>19129280
Don't worry, they're here for their "gotcha moment" and ineffective psyops.

>>19129224
Instead, why don't you just make some money? You will think differently then.

>>19129127
Based

>>19123509
Anarcho-syndicalist here. I’m also a conspiracy theorist so I guess that’s how I manage to deal with these right wing retards. I’m just trying to make some money under capitalism while my job is defunct due to covid. I don’t really talk to people about politics here except in passing because they sound like uneducated ancaps. And btw, I mean I’m a fan of anarchist history; I’m not currently unionizing the workforce to overthrow capitalism, but I support the thought. I’m a literature major so that I may one day teach about utopian/dystopian themes in literature. I also play in an extreme metal band as the main songwriter and most of our songs are about resistance to Technocracy and transhumanism.

If you've read Taleb you know that communism doesn't scale, it's a shitcoin ideology appealing to gullible low IQ fucks.

>>19128730
Nigga shut the fuck up

>>19124503
You can give money to me anon. I plan on getting a PhD do that I just spread leftist propaganda to kids in the form of “critical theory” and “utopian sci-fi” and the like.

>>19129330
It's ok man, we need faggots ike you to to actually do the thoughtless menial jobs that are required. Just know your place. And say thank you. Because without us, you would have nothing at all.

>>19129376
> teaching a college level course is a thoughtless, menial job

>>19129330
This post oozes liquid cringe

>>19129386
No, that is actually valuable.

>>19129386
Yes

>>19129339
Rabid dog

>>19129330
>hey, based anarcho-syndacalist here
>i can handle those right wing retards
>i'm making money under capitalism beating the system fuck yeah
>everyone is an uneducated ancap unlike me, the superior anarcho bro
>I’m a literature major but at the same time a cool skillful trader
>I also play in an extreme metal band about resisting the system
Why you people always sounds like smug retards?

>>19129332
which of his books would you recommend?

>>19129411
lmao i seen the greentext and thought you were just having a go but its right there in their post fuck damn.

>>19128933
>shithole country
Oh no, I will have the choice of Monaco, Malta, Luxembourg, Singapore, Lichtenstein and Bahamas. Woe is me. I will have to live in luxury for the rest of my live.

Thing is, I not only avoid taxes, but also leech on your taxes. I am officially an uni student, so I get support, then I have a fake disability for "chronic depression", so I get my disability bux. Totaling 600 euros per month. Not mentioning free healthcare.

I own an apartment officially owned by my relative, who "rents it out" to me, so the government not only pays for that, I also pocket the profit.

Then, I run a charity fund, which makes me money. I bought old master violins thorough my shell company and now loan them out to musicians. They appreciate in price over time, while I also carry no maintenance costs, because the musicians do that. Also companies donate to my fund to write off taxes and I invest it towards master violin bows. Initial investment was 400,000, now worth over 1.5 million. I can take my violins back and sell them at any time. The fund doesn't directly belong to me of course.

This is why the socialist countries are the shitholes. The more capitalist a country is the better it is for everyone.
This is what commies will never understand.

>>19124925
Why are you fighting for workers?? They are most basic most simple minded group of society with lowest interest in complex issues. They are people who were bullying kids with good grades in high school. They care more about sport game and beer than politics and are nationalist, homophobic racist macho sexist, drunk wife beaters who hate intelectualls like you revolutionaries.
They are opposite of you and will kill you on mass when they get to power like always.

>>19125306
Why would I read Marx? He is dumbest guy ever. He literall wants lowest IQ people to rule the world LMAO.

>>19129784
Communism has failed wherever it was put in practice. The last country in existence where this retarded system is helping up is North Korea. Now, why are there people in the western world who think it is a good idea?

>>19129206
lol yeah your right
makes sense tho

>>19123509
All commies need to hang from trees, I like shiny soviet coins tho

>>19129411
>>19129295
lol what a retard

Anti-commies: if you could choose between this world and a world where all essential work is automated and you're free to do anything, and there's no money or state, which would you choose and why?

True communism means we are all equally poor, living in some concrete block and working some stupid job until we get old. Do you understand? You retarded leftists living here, with everything you could ever wish for?

>>19129073
>>19129070
Norway

>>19129644
is this a troll post i cant tell anymore
what you describe is a socialist system
nothing capitalist about what youre saying
are you genuinely, unironically this retarded?

There is no more landlord hate, there is no more indoor farming, there is just the SAME for everyone, who isn't a higher up in that communist party, you completelyy retarded assholes. Check yourselves.

>>19129330
>I’m a literature major so that I may one day teach about utopian/dystopian themes in literature. I also play in an extreme metal band as the main songwriter and most of our songs are about resistance to Technocracy and transhumanism
what a truly awful string of text.

any anon here have that compilation showcasing all those literal "anarcho" twitter trannies with anime pfp's?

>>19129934
I know I describe a socialist system, that's the point.
Although I am abusing it, I don't think it's a good thing. In a capitalist country I wouldn't have to abuse it, because I wouldn't have to hide my money and would be able to invest locally without being fucked to death by taxes.

>>19129990
Oh wow ok i get it. Hail Satan. I know who you are

>moneyless society
so fucking deluded and cult-like. i unironically hope you get put into fema camps

How can people claim we live in a capitalist system when companies are getting bailed out left and right at the very moment?

>>19129909
the one that actually has LUXURY you fucking faggot

>>19130054
Logical extension of capitalism. They've been given free reign to exert their power and have used that to push for measures that benefit themselves.

>>19130066
Wage slaving in the year 2020 = luxury?

>>19129901
>lol what a retard
lol what a retard

>>19130054
would you rather live in shit? you lil twerp?

>>19130105
Nope because in magic communism nobody can exploit you because... yes.

>>19130122
because everyone is exploited.

>>19130086
Are you saying that capitalism is inherently unsustainable and leads to corporate rule eventually?

>>19130105
I believe this whole capitalism vs. communism discussion has no relevance in real life. There is no inherited difference between USA, Europe or China. Everywhere companies are in bed with politics, and government tries to prop up its domestic companies to compete in the world market.

>>19123509
Basically by reading Marx. All of it. Starting with the 4 Vol. of Das Kapital (3 + Theories on surplus value). Then reading Hegel. Then reading what's left of Marx, then re-reading Das Kapital.
If you believe in collective consciousness, that only would give a pretty massive blow on the Capital.

>>19130143
Yes, and that is a good thing. Who profits in the end? We all do. Do you think that your grandparents had it better than you, Anon? No they did not. We are experiencing a never before seen state of comfort. And that certainly is not because of communism.

>>19130093
it's funny because realistically the latter wouldn't exist for more than a few weeks. People would just create their own form of currency for the NON-ESSENTIAL goods. you think everybody is going to open their fine dining restraunts and serve the public for fucking free? you think hookers are going to put their pussy out for FREE? Wjat the fuck is the matter with you? If this ideology relies on super advanced automation or AI then why shill for this nonsense NOW? we're not even close to such advanced automation. "just let the robots do everything bro" is easier fucking said then done. nigger

If we replaced the term "bourgoisie" with "jew" would biz become commie?

>>19123509
Nazional socialist reporting in

>>19130150
>i love wasting my time by
consuming dogmatic trite!

>>19130181
No, we are not /pol/

>>19130166
I believe that in general, baby boomer were better off than millennials are today

>>19130177
People would work a few hours a week or would work for passion. Some people are passionate about something and they'd do that while the base society would run automatically. We're already close to replacing trucks with self driving ones which would eliminate the most popular job in many US states. Only a matter of time before it's done with garbage men, farmers, builders etc.

>>19130196
BULLSHIT
Millenials grew up having iPhones for fucks sakes.

That they generally do not use the opportunities and information given to them, but rather chill and get entertained is not anyones fault but their own.

>>19123509
One step at a time comrade
Once we destroy the economy with this hoax virus then promote green new world order but first let’s blame Trump for all this. He’s in our way.

>>19130209
>millennials
>iphones
What?

>>19130271
>Once we destroy the economy with this hoax virus
Not working as yo can see.

>>19130205
You're a dumb retard, we're no where near replacing humans. If some people don't earn 100k per year who the fuck is going to go into chemical research, engineering and work their jobs for 10 hours a day

90% of all people making a business, working at one etc will all drop out to do easier jobs and nothing new will be made

capitalists make shit. socialists take shit.

American will eventually become communist and die and return to capitalism to re-build it. Just like how Russia and China are doing it right now

>>19126798
copetard
give me ancapism or give me death
free helicopter rides for all commies

>>19128160
>>19128281
baste

>>19130324
>free helicopter rides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9rhv3HOWvk

>>19129930
Norway lives off the profits of it's oil industry you fucking moron

>>19130309
It's already happening now during the pandemic, most people are stuck at home, only a small minority of people are actually working and society is still functioning. The vast majority of jobs are compete bullshit and are only there to keep money circulating and to make the top capitalists richer

>>19123509
The good news is, all this dumb commie horseshit will disappear after your first big gain. Everyone is extremely generous with other peoples money. No one wants to share their own.

>>19130452
>Everyone is extremely generous with other peoples money
This is called the EU

Richard Wolff is a bretty based economist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4&list=WL&index=2&t=10s

>>19125560
Love it!

Leftist scum with a nice portfolio of passive income here. I really shouldn't be able to do nothing and make more money than my harder working american peers doing essential jobs, yet here we are.

Please tax me more. I guess the only difference between myself and a republican at this point is that I actually feel guilty about being a rent-seeking parasite on my society.

>>19123509
I took all my money and my Trumpbux and trusted Binance to stake it on ARPA for me. I don't plan on moving back to the USD system ever again.

>>19123509
how did this shitty bait thread get over 300 replies?

>>19130885
Because jannie is a tranny

>>19130452
it didnt
what now faggot

>>19130191
Enjoy you false consciousness.