/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18815896
I would get some more exposure to BTC and pick up some speculative stuff like SUTER as well

Buy ETH now and daydream about the future where you own a fancy house with a lambo or two in the garage and any hot bitch or two you want riding your cock

>>18815896
something strange is going on with gold, and the etf charade wont hold up much longer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV2XoSVhzsc thi guys channel is very interesting and this video is important to watch..

On Bitcoin...even though I will get flak immediately, I recommend you investigate what exactly happened during the segwit fork and what happened afterwards to BCH and the creation of BSV.

BSV is Bitcoin and the only coin/system/protocol that scales and that could have a future.

https://coingeek.com/what-bitcoin-sv-signals-to-businesses-investors-and-social-media/

this might help you find an intrinsic value and the corresponding valuation.

>>18816436

Do you think that $9000 is a price worth paying now, or that it is dangerously high? There are dozens of FUD threads and posts here every day saying that the price will crash down to $5000 soon. That is the only reason why I haven't acquired more.

>>18816507
>>18816502

Generally I find that people argue that only Bitcoin can feasibly be the next cryptocurrency, because only Bitcoin has a chance of reaching widespread adoption. What do you make of this argument? I have thought about putting some money in Monero, because of the privacy advantage, but, by and large, it seems to me that, if Bitcoin fails, the cryptocurrency movement itself fails, because the driving idea is that a cryptocurrency, any cryptocurrency, can become as widespread, reliable, and acceptable as gold, and achieve a similar market-cap.

>>18815896
BTC will hit $2000 within the next 2 weeks and stabalize

>>18816657

It’s good to have a lot of cash. If you are buying digital currency for a hedge and want what is most similar gold get some XMR. I’d put more in XMR than BTC. The PA on XMR is a lot more stable. I wouldn’t do more than 10% of ur assets. Your proportions are safe. Good luck Godspeed.

>>18815896
It's a ridiculous assertion that it's worth $8,000 too but here we are. It might crash to $1,000. Imo that's a ridiculous assertion as well, that it would be worth that much. And when it's $100,000, boy will it be ridiculous. Not to mention $1M. Kind of like the idea that a silly little protocol like TCP/IP could connect the whole world, utterly ridiculous. But it works.

>>18816695
literally fuck all has come from any of these "partnerships" in 3 years now

>>18816657

No one can tell you what it's really worth because it's highly speculative and all based on how people feel about it.

But, we have reached $20k before, and there's a reasonable argument to be made that we'll be testing those highs again with the renewed interest due to infinite money printing and inflation.

>>18816909
Patience

>>18815896
Saying that crypto in general are competing for the same space is like saying McDonald's and AMD are competing for the same space, or gold and potatoes are competing for the same space. As we've seen so far bitcoin acts like stocks and generally only goes up. If you are risk averse it's not a bad idea to keep 5 to 10% just to help pad things out with steady gains. Just be careful, dentacoin is certainly not the same thing as btc. I can see why one might think that, kind of like how gold and silver are both metals and have value because they are used in making electronics. Crypto is a little more complicated than raw materials and not as interchangeable like that. Ethereum is not a currency, chainlink is not a currency, and they don't try to be either.

>>18815896

You have to look at the things the cryptos do, because the promising ones are not so much currencies as they are technologies with tokens attached. Here are a few videos from a guy who can explain the technology and If you think the technology is worth investing in, buy the coins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxLkbJozKbY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmaWDpg4fMU

>>18816657
you seem to be reasonable one in a sea of kookos.
Go over the list of other blockchain tech that is out there and is accesible to buy into..

the only entity profiting from xrp is ripple labs and they are not public.

R3 or some other tech is indirectly available maybe if you buy company stock, but even then, the tokens will have a value akin Frequent traveler miles, money in there would be not fungible and not liquid, with many restrictions.

Ethereum.... I bought 5000 in ICO, bought my first bitcoin at 130, so at ETH ICO I spent less than 3BTC or to say something that I invested.
390Euro.

Now, why did I invest in Etherum? because of the global computer mambojambo that VB and others were talking about, I mean damnit, the security of bitcoin but unbounded by the limitations that bitcoin when I learned about it had. How not to invest in that dream. I went to ethereu meetups before ICO, heck, while they were still discussing the foundational architecture, before even the introduction of the gas concept.


sadly I didnt sell at the crazy top of 1200 because I also believed in more to come.... very much like>>18816695


Why did I offboard from the ethereum train? Because it doesnt scale using POW.
POW has like everything else on this planet as necessity energy. Energy can not be conjured up out of nothing.
POS and all shitty other name conventions do not require energy, as they can "secure" the network by putting conjured up "wealth" as collateral. That is not only immoral, but also lays the foundation for a feudal system that might rein 1000 or more years.

And all that even if Ethereum actually delivers a scalable system.

1

Monero doesnt work with FTFA regulations , any country within that regulatory framework will forbid the trading of those tokens within their jurisdiction. Meaning the only way you will be able to offload them is either by buying goods from sellers that accept a form of payment that is prohibited in >90% of the "legal" world economy or using exchanges thta are fly by night or/and non regulated and can exit scam anyday. Meaning solely from an investment sort of view, you are cutting yourself from the liquidity pool. If you want to go that route, I can not stop you.

2

>>18815896
in my personal opinion, if bitcoin ever moons again and receives widespread interest, it will be regulated more heavily by the government and will die because of it. i'd be wary of considering it a reliable investment.

And finally back to bitcoin..... It has the catchy name that every normie somehow recognises. They dont follow what is happening, the price or whatever. Some media hokus pokus and they will acept the narrative that BSV is bitcoin and that the companies selling the fake bitcoin went under and that a lot of basement dweller commited seppuku

exchanges that didnt list bsv and didnt hand it out to their customers, sold it underhand and or hedged their BTC with BSV will just from one moment to the next tell their customers that they always knew and here is their BSV no need to go down in flames,

the normie world will know bitcoin by the name bitcoin. Now to the ticker symbols.....

BTC, doesnt scale natively and depends on ever changing addendums to have hope of ever scaling, see lightning and some other crappy muh level 2 and 3 and 4 solutions.
segwit is maybe a plus for privacy, but in a post privacy world that might put if things get bad BTC into the XMR corner, and if I had to choose Id go with XMR, because there is just no way to hide the BTC miners with all the hash that the chain needs.

BCH.... I like Roger, yet I think he is more like don Quixote and is fightning an unwinnable fight, and it doesnt scale. No, 32 mb is not scaling. The chinese made a a stress test a few months ago and BCH failed miserably... BTC is under a constant stress test and at ATH it failed miserably.

BSV. Yes, Im not going to lie, I held CSW as a scammer and also wanted him to sign or fuck off.


Just by chance I was following Ryan x charles since way back when and he surprised me when he went all in a scam coin, why the fuck would someone do that... I mean pump a coin with social media ok, I fell for that trap once or twice too, but really working on it, wtf, well then begann a new journey through the rabbit hole and what do I see, lots of people working on it, lots of ideas that other coins in the good old days wanted to make being implemented natively int the system... Ok, BSVis not only CSW, and then more, it scales, it can do everything that ethereum does and I go what? how can that be? 2013 sitting in a basement filled with coders and the smartest guys Ive ever met I hear that bitcoin doesnt scale and it cannot do the stuff that VB wants.... And no, shit, Bitcoin could do all that from the start, Bitcoin was just castrated when I first begann to know it.

So where does this new insight come from, that it scales, that bitcoin script is way more powerfull than tought... Shit, there he is again CSW. Fuck, so down that rabbid hole I go again, who is this guy.... Why the fuck cant he just sign or do some other irrefutable shit so that even me can be convinced that he is Satoshi? why? I dont know and honestly now knowing what I know about bitcoin and seeing all the development being made on BSV I dont care anymore.Bitcoin as implemented in BSV is way more advanced and robust than in 2013, and for me that merits a price higher than in 2013. If CSW can make due on a few key promises the exchanges and businesses that can be held liable are going to scram to get themselves BSV to make their customers and investors whole. that insurance is worth more than the current price ratio between BTC/BSV.

So even from a mere speculator point of
OP, do with this info as you wish, to the others.... come at me, view BSV is a nice to have, without needing to go into the already quasi religios battles that are fought out here in the crypto community... believe me, I have already somewhat broken contact with to friend irl because of the dfference. Another doesnt accept the satoshi angle, that I somewhat do, but accepts the speculation angle.

>>18815896
If you're a conservative man trading crypto isn't for you. Your current position being all cash and shiny rocks is a low risk low reward one, if you're comfortable with it stay in it, if you're not go for crypto but then it's high risk high reward.

It all depend on your age and your responsibility, if you're young and single then it's the perfect moment for high risk high reward, if you've got a family at charge then it's wise to be a conservative investor

>>18815896
1) i would wait to see how the halving goes before i put more money into bitcoin
2) buy the dip you moron (assuming it won't death spiral and be fine in a few months)
3) 10-20% of your net goes to bitcoin depending on what percent other risky assets allocated in.

>>18816657
For a top buyer for you DCA is the way to go

>>18817547
>believe me
rofl yeah sure why not... fucking imbecile
>BSV is a nice to have
oh nonononononono he is retarded

>>18817523
What government?

>>18818402
also here is what we seen on the shitforks at their halving: their hashrate halved but then it was fine. there was no problem with mining (altho daa makes them more robust against chain death than bitcoin) their price remained the same dropped a little after but recovered when btc rallied.

basically the halving was a non-even for bch and bchsv. bitcoin may very well do the same. crawl around at $9k $10k region drop a little recover hashrate gets halved mempool gets a bit clogged but it goes on. could take a 6 month to a year for the next bull to start in ernest.

gold is savings. you dont invest in gold, you buy it so that in the event the government currency fails you still have value, and you can buy land with a few oz of gold

>>18818490
>gold is savings
not really it's insurance
saving keeps it's value
insurance hedges your position against a disaster but you keep losing money on it
investment you expect to gain on at a given timeframe

gold is insurance
stocks are savings
bitcoin is the best fucking investment ever

>>18818510
sorry bonds are savings stocks can gain you over inflation. so they are sort of saving/investment

>>18815896
invest in value, not fiat pricing.
look at the technologies thoroughly and genuinely.
the best crypto isn't an exchange of value, but bringing value to companies through technologies attached to the blockchain in their unique way so that they can actually help other businesses in a profound way (whether it be something like smart contracts or what have you).
THAT is the intrinsic value of crypto.

>>18819169
i disagree because of 2 main reasons:
1 the blockchain as technology is the most overhyped and useless thing ever. there is absolutely nothing on this world that can not be made better without a blockchain then with it. except for the sole exception of the nakamoto consensus to maintain a distributed byzantine fault tolerant ledger that is trustless permisisonless and secure. but the ledger itself is the value not the tech. the blockchain is a means to an end.
2 the entire thing about utility and businesses adopting crypto is just scammer talk. it's vaporware. partly from people that just don't understand the value proposition of bitcoin and partly from people that are way too impatient and want to forerun a transformation of society that may not even come but most certainly will not use any of the existing "tech" and coins or tokens.

tech is very easily replicated. it does not provide sound fundamentals for any investment. it's the biggest smoke in the eyes bullshit of this age.

fiat pricing on the other hand is a very important thing. it is a distributed consensus reached via market price discovery. understanding consensus and it's implications for the next decade is the best thing you can do for yourself. don't get bogged down by the usual hype words! and always ask the question "does this piece of technology really truly requires an embedded asset with it's own price discovery or it's just the dev team trying to print free money and dump on the tards?"

>>18819534
Lol

>>18816436
This response has nothing to do with your question. It's just his 'subtle' way of trying to shill you Suter. He and his friends are all over /biz/ trying to dump their garbage on us

>>18819534
It doesn't happen often, and really should be more commonplace, but someone, fucking somewhere, finally said something intelligent on /biz/. Thanks, anon

>>18819768
This kind of intelligence made me not buy btc when it was $7, sometimes being dumb is the thing to do

>>18820219
are you me?

>>18816507
>SIR

>>18815896
>the price is barely moving just when it ought to be moving most.
https://youtu.be/jHPEiTQb3zw?t=715

I would buy at least 2-3 BTC as a suicide investment. Then I would build a 10-20% allocation of BTC by putting in low ball bids to catch big drops. The recent $7k to $4k drop would have been an excellent time to build out a BTC allocation. We probably won't see another drop that big but there will definitely be 20-30% drops to buy up.

As far as competition, saying altcoins compete with BTC, is like saying fool's gold will compete with gold. Alts are not bitcoin. Bitcoin is by far the most secure, most decentralized and distributed coin. It is also the only coin with truly no "owner." It is THE original trust-less public ledger, nothing else can imitate it.

>>18819534
>1 the blockchain as technology is the most overhyped and useless thing ever.
webm related.
>2 the entire thing about utility and businesses adopting crypto is just scammer talk.
now i know you're a boomer, thanks.

>fiat pricing on the other hand is a very important thing.
no.
>it is a distributed consensus reached via market price discovery.
no. central bankers, academics, and keynesian subhumans do this.
>understanding consensus and it's implications for the next decade is the best thing you can do for yourself.
i agree in the sense understanding currencies is good.
>don't get bogged down by the usual hype words! and always ask the question "does this piece of technology really truly requires an embedded asset with it's own price discovery or it's just the dev team trying to print free money and dump on the tards?"
probably true for 90% of the shit, you're right. there will be a few very successful niche cases in particular industries where a distributed ledger will save a company millions in expenses by gutting middle management fags out of the process or something like that.

Definitely don´t buy at this high price. Just a friendly tip

Bitcoin will never be woth 50K. The sell pressure would be huge, and only dumb money would buy at that price, while smart hedge fund money dumped on top of you

>>18820709
i just watched ghost in the shell sac last night...
while i hated the animation and the story was awful at first, it suddenly developed some interesting depth.

it is dealing with things like global credit default, what comes after this monetary system, hyperinflation and cryptocurrencies. when you find these things in pop culture you feel the era of early adopters is came to an end. and we were indeed in the "gap". which also means the coming adoption slope will be steep as fuck.

>>18816657
this is a trash argument promoted by low iq holders. If Bitcoin would have been mass adopted, it would have happened by now. Bitcoin does not scale, too high fees and won´t work without block rewards that they keep cutting in half. The small minority knows this already, but the stupid majority is still not aware. Bitcoin does not work as a store of value, not as a currency and has no business use cases. At least some other cryptos have bussiness use cases.

>>18820717
99.99% more like and even if you could automate certain things needing an asset with it's own free floating price discovery to do it is most likely bollocks. you could easily do the same thing with a sidechain where you lock in btc to a smart contract and can use the representative token on the sidechain while maintaining a trustless permisisonless exit like with ln smart contracts.
sidechains also help separate local concerns from global ones. which is why i'm bullish on the implications for both smart contracts and sidechains but not any of the assets currently which i think almost without exception are either scams or they will not outshine btc anyhow but more risky.

>>18820775
>If Bitcoin would have been mass adopted, it would have happened by now.
that's an obvious fallacy

In the long term, I suppose the value has to keep climbing in order for mining to remain a profitable enterprise. Whether this is possible or not, I don't know.

>>18820862
it´s not. The value would have to go up forever, and that is simply not substainable. Bitcoin cant survive on transaction costs alone, it needs block rewards. The house of cards will collpase one day because of the fundamentally flawed tech and economic setup

>>18815896
Legit question for all you butt-coin faggots;
Why do you trust an imaginary currency that only exists on the internet, an internet that the government can turn off like it's a lightswitch when they feel like it?

If Im rich the first thing I would buy is 1millon dollars worth of btc if could. Theres nothing else that could store value that way and people are always accumulating more because of its unique market.
Its worth the risk in the long run historically and you might take a loss but usually the value always bounce back. People just panic sell alot.

>>18820823
no it´s not. It has no reason to be adopted. Most people would have no benefit from adopting bitcoin, just stress. It´s old, slow, and costs a lot to send transcations. And it´s hard to keep track of wallets, keys, exchanges etc

>>18815896
>in a sense, crypto has no intrinsic value. How much higher can Bitcoin really go?

as a bulltard that thinks btc might go to 100k+ I 100% agree with you that there is no intrinsic value on cryptos.

With that being said, it still holds value, doesn't it? It clearly isn't zero because people are still buying NOW. Nothing guarantees it won't be zero within 1-5 or even 10 years.

What Peter schiff and other boomers don't get is that virtual things CAN have value. Just because THEY don't see any value doesn't mean other people won't see any value.

The beautiful thing is that the value that is being negotiated now is the real value! Nobody and no government is enforcing anything. No bailout, no money printing, you can't change the code.

I feel somehow crazy libertarians always were considered tinfoil hat conspirationists with ''muh government can't print money, muh freedom'' but now that governments are becoming real authoritarian and printing left and right EVEN NORMIES are saying ''muh money printing muh collapse''. If you believe there is a chance fiat money will keep losing value due to inflation then you allocate your portfolio into gold (safe, but less upside) and bitcoin (not safe, but higher upside).

The choice is yours fren. If you wanna discuss this a bit further and have discord you are welcome to join my group. We are mostly traders and shitpost a lot but we also enjoy having those kind of discussions there. Server ID is: TcbT8yY

>>18821201
still stuck in blockchain 1.0 mindset
you're never going to make it

>>18815896

buy google stock it's cheap compared to fucking bitcoinz

>>18815896
>I have about half my wealth in cash, just under half in gold and silver, and 2% in Bitcoin. I am debating whether I should buy more Bitcoin

youre a real, well-rounded moron.

>>18821418

What is "intrinsic" value and what isn't is a very fuzzy line, especially if you are defining value as an amount of fiat currency.

>>18822001
>What is "intrinsic" value and what isn't is a very fuzzy line, especially if you are defining value as an amount of fiat currency.

sure. but assuming the standard definition I don't think it is very wise to say crypto has any and that's ok

>>18822392

idk, if bitcoin's value as a trustless public ledge isn't "intrinsic" then what is an intrinsic value? An apple has an intrinsic value as food, but the apple wasn't created by the tree to feed you. It just happens to be nutritious. Bitcoin was literally designed for its purpose, so certainly any value resulting from it usefulness for that purpose would be intrinsic. But yeah, its just semantics. I just don't get what exactly what would be an example of intrinsic value if you are saying value resulting from a use for which something was designed for is not intrinsic. It sounds pretty intrinsic to me.

>>18821201
>It has no reason to be adopted.
in that we agree, the "gap" forms in the adoption curve because there is no pressing need no real advantage in adoption.
it however doesn't mean it will never get adopted (like you insinuated) nor does it mean it has to be adopted. it's just an observable phenomenon.

>>18822801
intrinsic value has no meaning for assets like bitcoin in this sense. you can argue that some assets have both intrinsic value and speculative value, like a rare anitque gun has the intrinsic value of a replica muzzle loader as far as utility goes and the speculative value far far greater.
but it's really for companies i think the company balance sheet is it's intrinsic value and expected revenue growth goes into the speculative value.

bitcoin however has no real utility that is not tied to it's valuation at all. so it's pretty retarded to talk about the intrinsic value of bitcoin.

Someone redpill me on ETH, what's it's future look like?

>>18822955

I think you can say the bitcoin network as a whole has intrinsic value. But an individual bitcoin, a digit in a wallet, doesn't.

>>18821418
There is no such thing as intristic value, a currency just needs a somewhat guaranteed use to be viable as a value-storage, like being able to pay taxes with it.

>>18823041
>bitcoin network as a whole has intrinsic value
Productions and maintaining costs don't matter for a currency as long as it's (subjective) value is higher than them.

>>18815896
Buy bitcoin , go with the brand name, normies buy brands. It’s the same reason why gold has out performed silver. If you want to mix it up buy a little eth.

>>18823163

Well if your definition of value is an amount of fiat currency and you attribute no intrinsic value to fiat currency then yeah, nothing can have intrinsic value.

But the actual definition of value is just usefulness, its not an amount of dollars.

>>18817507
>did not understand the token he invested in
>bought 5k at ico
>ANON JUST DO LIKE ME!!!
Gambler.

>>18823041
>I think you can say the bitcoin network as a whole has intrinsic value. But an individual bitcoin, a digit in a wallet, doesn't.
the way mining works it's all tied to the valuation of bitcoin. the total worth of mining equipment and electricity used is all tied closely to bitcoins market valuation.

but yeah we can play with this notion.

>>18823335
>Well if your definition of value is an amount of fiat currency
A fiat currencies value is tied to the economy that accepts it and subjective, as value itself is.
>you attribute no intrinsic value to fiat currency then yeah, nothing can have intrinsic value.But the actual definition of value is just usefulness, its not an amount of dollars.
But it can be measured in dollars, and the economy accepts it as a storage of value. This is all that matters.

>>18818423
greg, is that you?

>>18815896
Even in 2017 people on this board thought $5000 dollars was insanity, months before when it was around $1800 on its trajectory upwards. $50000 is just over 5x from here. And 2.5x from ATH.