/biz/ - Business & Finance

Because we force people to have money to survive. That's coercion anon.

Maybe it's time to tax people so they don't need jobs to survive and can get food, water, and shelter without being coerced.

>>18809235

Who are you going to tax if nobody works?

>>18809235
You being able to pay your rent in the apartment you knew you couldn't afford is your business. My business is to maximize profit. If you don't like your paycheck, go start your own business or get a different job. If you have no skills, go get some. If you don't like any of the above, change your living situation.

>>18809177
Why are you owed low-cost labor?

>>18809235
>we force people to have money to survive
Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to stop planting a freedom garden.

>>18809314
Globohomo btfo

>>18809270
This isn't easy for people though.
The deck is stacked hard against them. More and more people are going to have to get gibs. When you need 100k to start a business and it has a 50 percent chance of failing in two years, 80 in 5.

>>18809314

So don't take the job. If nobody takes the job, he'll have to increase the pay. As long as people work for shit wages, there will be shit wages.

It is if they complain about it enough lmao

>>18809261
The employers and capitalists. The people with an immense amount of capital.

>>18809270
You hit the nail on the head with the first 2 sentences. Employers and employees are fundamentally at odds with each other, and because of that the workers should at least control some of the means of production, or have some sort of guaranteed collectivized labor force.

> If you don't like your paycheck, go start your own business or get a different job.
Can this meme end? Not everyone has the capital to start their own business, and picking between different extorters is still coercion.

> If you have no skills, go get some.
Oh my god. The absolute state of /biz/. Everyone needs a degree now and they all cost money. If not a degree, you need time to obtain skills. The absolute state.

> If you don't like any of the above, change your living situation.
Brb going to go get my capital that I don't have so I can move somewhere else


Time for a real social safety net in the US.

>>18809177
Haha man conservatives can be some silly people.

Listen dont get be wrong there are some brutally stupid leftists on Twitter, then there is liberals, then there is Democrats- the moderate corporate centrists.

Ill say that liberals and dems have the basic understanding that all of the money is going torwards the rich. Worse than ever.
Too late to argue otherwise.
And unfortunately we have to figure out how to transfer it back to the people.

>>18809177
$600 a week? sheeeiiit sign me up

I have to say about this thread, there are more people browsing /biz/ that are for wealth redistribution than I thought.

Nice :)

>>18809235
I have a friend who hasn't used money for 12 years. He lives in the woods and provides for himself completely. You have that option too you lazy piece of shit.

>>18809449
read Chinese history circa 1949-1976 and then fuck yourself with the textbook

Capitalists mad they can't extort workers anymore and they actually need to improve wages lmaooo

reminder that leftists also defend illegals staying here because they provide cheap labor and that we should be grateful for them

>>18809494
How could you not be?
Its quite literally 100% neccessary at this point.

>>18809449
>because of that the workers should at least control some of the means of production
Then go make it you retard stop trying to steal it from people who made the machines or their customers who buy the machines from them.

>>18809506
Good for them. Uncle Ted would be proud.

I wish I could do that, but my trumpbux went directly to rent. I live paycheck to paycheck

>>18809177
Because otherwise you have no employees. Why do rich fucks think allowing the majority of people to fall into abject poverty and starvation somehow won't effect them? Sooner or later the bottom falls out, and then who's left to buy whatever products and services you're selling? Who's left to work your factories, stores, and transportation networks? Sooner or later people have no choice but to forcibly take what they need to survive.

You can either pay your people enough to survive, or let the government tax your income and profits so that THEY can make sure your people survive and maintain the system that allowed you to amass wealth in the first place.
>but I'm a self-made man!
There is no such thing. The moment you hired or paid someone else to do something for you that allowed you to increase your wealth, you stopped being a self-made man and became a part of the system.

>>18809235

>>18809545
There are few people in modern history that became rich entirely from their own inventions without generational wealth. It is not stealing, you chose to do business in the US, so you comply with their laws.

>>18809573
This guy thinks capitalism is natural.

If this comic was the US, it would show the lady's mom planting a berry bush a generation ago, her forcing the man to pick the berries, and then her taking a majority of the berries because "she deserves it, that's nature"

reminder that the US is not a meritocracy and never will be, so a social safety net is needed NOW

>>18809636
>forcing the man to pick the berries

>>18809533
Jesus you people are such panty pissing pussies sometimes.

First let me explain what isnt real
>everyone who isnt a drop dead retard trump supporter is a "leftist"
Dont be ao cavalier with that term.
Leftist arent much of a problem numbers wise just like the kkk isnt.
>libs want open boarders
Not real. Made up shit that Republican politicians and retards like trump say because they believe you are stupid.

Immigration in the US isnt a real problem. Its made up.
Net immigration is low, deportations are high, work force is needed for growth.

Conservatives are in business because they have chosen the tactic of scaring their easily panicked low iq populace into voting for tax cuts
>honduran cleaning lady gunna hurt u
>obama is a muslim he gonna hurt u
>isis gunna march down your streets
>obama gunna take yer guns
>muslims gonna change the constitution
>war on christmas
>scary dixie chicks
Retard shit.
A bet that conservatives are as big as pussies as trump himself.
(Not to say libs don't have some fear tactics as well)

>>18809684
sorry, not forcing.

saying "you can pick the berries or not"

and then if he doesn't pick the berries he starves

>>18809573
he's not wrong

>>18809511

Underrated

>>18809714
how is that any different from nature saying "you can hunt and gather or not"
and then if you don't hunt and gather you starve

it seems like you're just mad you don't get things for free

>>18809424
That doesn't work anymore, because kikes are constantly bloating the population with third world shitskins who are happy to make 10 cents a day.
When a nation is filled with low quality people, you cannot expect high standards of living.

That should be common sense. Demographics are everything.

>>18809740
Well, the comic isn't the best comparison because it portrays a simplified system of capitalism. If everyone was living in a meritocracy with some sort of guaranteed capital through a safetynet this would be somewhat of a better comparison. In fact, the comic is a bit closer to socialism(actual socialism, not welfare) than anything.

>everyone works
>profits(meat) are distributed somewhat proportionally

seems a bit like a labor cooperative. based

Cheat-o shits on billionaires, suddenly billionaires bad. Most business owners are just petty small tyrants. Guess what? I'm a landlord, but I'm not deluded about the value I bring to society.

>>18809177
>if $600 a week for nothing at all is not preferable to working for the same amount then im a complete retard
why does twitter convince brainlets their hot takes are intelligent

>>18809177
>increase minimum wage to $20 / hr
>$20 is now the equivalent to $7.50 / hr
>"WHY ISN'T THE MINIMUM WAGE $50 / hr?!"

it's gonna happen. But yeah minimum wage should be higher.

>>18809511
Based

>>18809834
what the fuck are you even talking about, schizo?

>Cheat-o
you have to go back man. We've already told you this.

>>18809471
This

>>18809821
You didn't answer the question.
Your original post was "we force people to have money to survive. that's coercion anon". And you have to work to get the money. Basically, you don't work you don't eat.
In nature, you have to hunt and gather (work) to get food. You don't work you don't eat.
Is nature coercive as well? If not, what's the difference that makes one coercive but not the other?

>>18809177
>Why do leftists believe that it is a business owner's duty to ensure their employees' survival and sustenance?
Because they have no god.

>>18809424

>what is outsourcing jobs and insourcing labor

It ain't 1925 anymore Grandpa. Labor moves freely. It's encouraged by both private business and liberal government.

If you're going to have Capitalism, you're eventually going to be competing for your daily bread with 2nd and 3rd world immigrants.

Simple as.

>>18809358
Imagine being this obtuse

>>18809522
This.

>>18809177

>>18809821
The comic has nothing to do with capitalism you drooling retard

>>18809810
maybe lock up the faggots hiring these illegal workers at 10 cents a day then? when they see there's real consequences for hiring them, they'll stop hiring them.

>>18809177
Leftoids and also an increasing number of the right have never fully developed into adulthood. Self reliance is gone.

>>18809880
> increase the minimum wage state by state to reflect cost of living
> people can afford products in their local community
> good
> internet
> oh no
the internet and its implications have been a disaster for the human race

>>18809880
The real minimum wage is zero, unemployment. There shouldn't be minimum wage laws at all, and at least federally they're unconstitutional.

>>18809522
Underrated comment

>>18809908
The difference is that in a natural state we would all have equal opportunity with some exceptions, no one has a leg up past their genetics might make them better at hunting.

In our current system, people are born into wealth and influence. No longer do you need to have skill and expertise to have a job, you can just get it from your dad's friend.

A meritocracy would be nice, but it is not realistic. To have an actual voluntary choice to work or not and have employers compete for employees, we need to make not having a job a viable option for all. Until then, employers will always have some sort of person in need to exploit for capital.

>>18809926
Point is you can do things differently without money
You don't need to just throw up your hands and go
Oh well no money guess ill just die

>>18810031
>In our current system, people are born into wealth and influence. No longer do you need to have skill and expertise to have a job, you can just get it from your dad's friend.
So just to be clear, capitalism is coercive because there are benefits you get from your ancestors, while nature isn't coercive because outside of genetics you would get no benefit from your ancestors?
How does getting certain (non-genetic) benefits from your ancestors make a system coercive?

>>18810008
> laws in act for over 100 years are unconstitutional
i hate this argument. go to the supreme court pls

>>18809424
>So don't take the job.

Don't take the bullet by being an asshole. If you expect prosperity in times of universal hardship then you can expect one.

>>18810073
Because those without capital are forced to work to stay alive. If they do not work, they are unable to get the resources they need for survival.

>>18809314
Because we fucking PAY you. It's your damn duty as a worker to do exactly what we say, to the price we pay. Don't like it? Find another job.

>>18809177
It's another lolbertarian sperg thread. Why should people tolerate having businesses in their communities if they don't create well paying jobs for the local populace? Don't answer that, just kys.

>>18810123
Right but in nature everyone is forced to work to stay alive and you said nature wasn't coercive?

>>18809177
A business also has no entitlement to my labour. If I'd rather sit on my ass all day collecting a welfare check I will.

We have a limited amount of time on this earth so why should I spend it wage cucking to make someone else rich if I don't have to?

It's not my job to stimulate the economy, I could hardly give a damn if the company goes out of business and the owners go bankrupt if I refuse to work. It's not like you get a bonus when the company does well, you're still kept on the same cuck wages while the bosses get to live it up.

>>18810185
Correct. Nature is not coercive.

In nature, everyone would have to get their own food based on skill, no matter what how good their grandparents are. There are no capitalists acting as a middleman and taking a cut to getting food.

If it doesn't make sense please reply again. I am super tired and am not sure if I'm wording properly and want to explain my position.

>>18810073
Why are you arguing with this retard? Anyone who can say this kind of shit with a straight face is either hopelessly retarded or he's just trying a roundabout way to shill for UBI or some nonsense where he doesn't have to work. It's like arguing with someone who thinks communism is great. No point wasting your time with them, they're goners anyway.

No hard-working, competent, successful man on the entire planet sits around stewing over ideas like
>yeah like... we're being oppressed because we have to work for the system MAN
None. Not one. If you rounded up all of the people who even whine about the "oppression" they suffer having to work for a living at least half of them would look like pic related or worse.

>>18809880
Good, the only way you get what you deserve in this shit society is by constantly agitating for it. How do you think the kikes got in power, by keeping quiet? People should never stop agitating for minimum wage increases.

>>18810185
The difference is in nature there isn't a group of kikes controlling everything to your disadvantage, you stupid cunt.

>>18810225
You say here >>18810123 that capitalism is coercive and nature isn't because "everyone has to work to obtain the resources they need to survive" (summarizing). But in both capitalism and nature everyone has to work to obtain the resources they need to survive. If that's what makes a system coercive, they're both coercive.
Then you say here >>18810073 that what makes capitalism coercive and nature not coercive, is that in capitalism some people are born into non-genetic benefits.
But you haven't explained how being born into non-genetic benefits makes a system in which you have to work to survive coercive. Why does that added element make a system that previously wasn't coercive into a coercive one?

>>18809810
And why shouldn't job creators be allowed to hire willing people just because some fat entitled neet screams about muh skin? Why do you hate the free market, the very same thing that has given you luxuries and time enough to whine?

>>18810227
I hate this line of thinking. A person who profits from the system is never going to advocate against it.

I used to believe the capitalism meme, I did everything right. I did well in high school, got into college, and now I'm wagecucking because you need a degree to work at CVS now. I only stay on /biz/ because I kick some money into my roth IRA every year.

>>18810289
>t. kike
The free market meme only works in super majority white societies with high trust. With a bunch of shitskins and unlimited immigration enabled by kikes, it's just a coercive tool to create and sustain a caste of wage slaves. Now kys.

>>18810348
>high trust
This faggotry platitude again? There's a reason cities are wealthy beyond measures compared to some shitty worthless hick village full of inbreds. What you call "low trust" is what actual, non-insane humans call "competitive", the driving force beyond growth.
Let me guess, you hate competition because you're a fat out of shape slob who always got picked last in sports at school?

>>18809740
Because all the good land has already been taken, and planting a berry bush is basically impossible to do legally with all the regulations, meaning you need a dedicated environmental scientist to sign off on planting and a dedicated lawyer to handle the inevitable audits and lawsuits. You'll also need a tax specialist to ensure the government doesn't take most of your crop. The red tape makes profiting as a small berry farmer almost impossible, but the company founded by some asshole 100 years ago didn't need to abide by any regulations. As his empire grew, he "worked with" environmentalists to make regulations which his company could meet, but pretty much ensures nobody can start up and undercut him. This lead to more profits year over year, which were spent on lobbying for more favorable taxes for big berry bush companies since they're an essential business. And when bad economic times come, the business gets bailed out because we can't let our essential businesses fall. Thus the laws never change, and the individual can't even afford to own his own bush.

>>18810435
So what makes free market capitalism coercive is govt regulations and bailouts?

>>18809177
Literally who?

>>18809810
>>18809913

Yeah, communist globohomos fuck everything up. That doesn't change the laws of supply and demand. You gotta either deport or exterminate this competition if you want better wages. Or develop a skillset so rare you must make money, but let's be honest most of us can't do that.

>>18810348
This. Free markets are a great environment to start an ethnic Monopoly
Just ask the Dutch, Mexicans, Italians, Indians...
Holy fuck did Indians fuck up the hotel industry is somebody going to do something about this?

>>18810073

Nigger coercion is one moral agent forces another moral agent to do something. Nature just exists. It doesn't know the difference between good and evil. It doesn't make decisions. It just is. If a cat knocks a glass off of a table, do we call it evil? Of course not, it's a fucking cat. It does cat shit. It doesn't make intelligent decisions based on the potential future consequences and whether that's the right thing to do. It knocks shit over. It's a fucking cat.

>>18810458
Yes. If large businesses could fail then there would be far less of a problem. Businesses which are found to be sociopathic should also be given the death penalty; total dissolution of ownership and finances. Equifax should have been killed. Boeing should have been allowed to die.

>>18810572
It sounds like you and I are on the same page.