/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18774257
It's like using your Lamborghini to store apples

sure, your apples are safe, but now you can't use your Lamborghini

>>18774257
probably they knew that actually there will be soon demand

>>18774321
What do you mean?

>>18774337
Shit opening back up before phase 2 infections. It's short term pumping for the lols (return to norm)

>>18774337
>Oil going up
>Oil companies going up
>Tankers going down
Buy the roumors, sell the news

>>18774321

>>18774386
So oil is going to inevitably crash again isn't it. Oil companies already froze their dividends so its going to happen.

>>18774408
What if lockdown ceases earlier than expected?

>>18774424
The oil is already there isn't it? There's way too much surplus.

>>18774386
Tanker prices based on actual supply and demand while oil and stock prices are based on speculative frenzies (until the day when oil contracts are settled)?

>>18774424
lockdown is already expected to end in early may. Storage is expected to be full end of May to mid june. Any action taken now is too late to do anything. Its a waiting game to see if the tanker case plays out.

They ALL have shitty fundamentals and storage is full so their services won't be needed for quite a while. Tankers will not be used for storage as there are more economical alternatives.

>>18774484
Never believed that tankers could explode in stonks price.
They usually optimize their storages to the normal production, during an emergency there's no time to build new ones.

>>18774424
Traffic jam situation anon, think of how a car accident that lasts 1 hour can cause 10 hours of traffic. The people who bought oil for cheap start using it next month (best case scenario) that means they aren't buying next months oil, so next months oil starts dropping in price, at the end of next month when they've used up their oil supply they'll start buying the now cheap oil and use that the month after. So an oil price recovery won't be V shaped, it'll be like a stepladder of incremental rises as each month the price goes up a bit.

>>18774550
Yes, definitely it won't be a V recovery, price could stay around 22-30 range for long.
At the moment it still needs to get out from the dead cat zone, this means it can go back to 0 again.

>>18774257
because there are thousands of them sitting off the coast losing 30k a day

>>18774711
Aren’t the tankers making 30k per day where as the oil companies are losing 30k per day?

>>18774901
yes

>>18774257
Because production is being cut. You must be a nigger if you can’t understand how to see foreseeable events.

>>18774506
>Tankers will not be used for storage as there are more economical alternatives.
Like what?

>>18774711
>because there are thousands of them sitting off the coast losing 30k a day
The tankers are the ones making 30k a day!
While having almost not expenses because they aren't spending money on fuel.

Actually, it's not even 30k, since tankers raise their rates to double and triple.

>>18775056
The earnings report will be massive this may

>>18774257
I worked on a few tankers. Money was good and job was fairly simple but the rules and regulations are killer. Also, shitty ports and constant threat of benzene. Would not recommend

>>18774257
Yesterdays drop looked a lot like an accumulation play, saw that shit all the time in crypto. Weak hands shakeout before another run up, by whales who know they can force major swings on small caps. The retail investors / robinhood scrubs get BTFO, sucks for them but that's how the game has always played.
>>18774484
Yep, We're still on track for oilmageddon in May-June. Probably when that saudi fleet shows up, the geopol / optics mean they'll want to blame someone- either faceless arab oil traders, or Trump for not "turning them away", probably both. (he can't really control where they go, plus they're under contract). Q1 earnings will turn some screws in the quants / hedge funds and probably start the big run up in the tanker segment; Q2 earnings will be even better. How this isn't priced in already is beyond me, since companies like TNP, TK, and others with good spot coverage might literally make market cap in a single quarter.
If you ever read livermores book "Memoirs of a stock operator", give it a read- the rules are different today but how he played sentiment trades is spot on today, and so is market irrationality. IMO the tanker play *will* happen, we just need to patiently wait for the ship to come in (lol). It's an obvious enough play that everyone will want a piece of it in the days to come, once some catalyst event kicks it off (could be earnings, negative oil... anything).

>>18774506
what like burn it? have an 'oil spill'? Stick it in that cavern you call a head?

>>18776653
Thanks anon. That's some real valuable insight you have there. When do you think tanker stocks will be priced in?

>>18776653
Stupid prediction:
> Tankers start to report awesome Q1 earnings and go up a little.
> Saudi tankers come in. Oh noes, the tanks are also full! coincidence.jpg
> WTI June crashes to $-50, free oil memes and bankrupt shale abounds
> Energy sector dragdown kicks off overdue round of correction selling in markets
> Bad news, unemployment, unhappy people, "lockdown ended, my job is gone!". Crying hungry babies on CNN from Detroit.
> Jerome money printer go brrr, reactionary US admin has energy sector bailout + $2000 stimulus checks for 6 months.
> 2nd wave of shorter lockdowns because 2nd wave of virus outbreak hits and destroys demand AGAIN.
> Cramer moos on TV about tankers and CNBC dedicates entire days explaining oil to normies
> Tankers seen as safe energy sector play and TNP moons to $50 by July
I'm half joking writing that, but none of those things are impossible, and that's... something.
>>18776772
>Price targets
Hard to say, we live in clown world after all. 2x is likely conservative, My "gut feeling" says wait it out and we'll see 4-10x in market segment. I'm assuming very irrational markets, and crypto like FOMO by the retail crowd if the segment takes off. Your job as a trader is to take profit in the markets, and even if you miss the top, any green is good green. I would personally try to exit around July-August, and Q2 earnings but depending on world conditions this could continue into Q3. I know options premiums are getting expensive in tankers now, but even if you hold the fundamental you could make profit.

>>18777010
Why the hell are the Saudis dumping oil anyways? Is there any chance the tanker can go back to the KSA?

>>18777093
Oil price war with Russia never really ended; but they're taking advantage of the crisis to temporarily kill off US shale production. This lets Saud be the dominant global energy player again. They know it's not forever, but it's geopolitical leverage they'd be dumb to ignore. With prices low, US shale isn't profitable, and will force bankruptcies / reorganization in that sector here.
10-20 years out, electric cars are going to be a lot more common and no one is going to want ME oil like they did in the past. Oil is never going away (It's used to make chemicals, plastics, all kinds of useful stuff!); but demand will be much reduced.

>>18777254
Thank you so much anon. I'm new to stocks. I'm glad I got alot of good advice from you.

>>18774257

Because the price was just right. Few days ago I told everyone NOT to invest in tankers at the current rate.
The price was right, people who bought in april were too late to the party.

Not going to repeat everything I said on the previous tanker thread, but the bottom-line is: don't invest in the shipping industry if you are not active in the sector; it is an opaque market so outsiders get little information.

(My family is in the Shipping industry, albeit cargo not tankers)

>>18777333
> Take profit when you can.
> Don't YOLO more than you're willing to 100% lose
> Don't hold things forever. If it went up fast, it can go down fast too.
> Your emotions WILL screw you over with trading. It's a hard game even for pros.
I'm not a pro by any means, and don't believe anyone who says they are here. And seriously, give "Memoirs of a Stock Operator" a read. It's free on archive.org; it won't help with understanding options better but will a lot with market sentiment and how emotions can influence stocks. Same stuff is true today even with all our cool technology.

>>18777373
Tankers didn't really move much until the 17th, when CNBC first started talking about them. Option entrys were amazing until then. You're right it's opaque, but so are the algos which play with this stuff.

>>18777373
>The price was right, people who bought in april were too late to the party.
So sell? I'm just holding on to hope with >>18774711? We're in distribution?
>My family is in the Shipping industry
May I ask about how you see the future of the industry? It's an industry that provides the circulation for the real world economy. Just wondering on a macro level.

>>18777373
>don't invest in the shipping industry if you are not active in the sector; it is an opaque market so outsiders get little information.

excellent FUD from the greek shipping jew

>>18777437

Anything bought in April comes with high risk. Most tankers were adequately priced in the first two weeks of march when most block trades were made or accumulated through iceberg orders.

For what's its worth, many have reduced their holding because the price got unexpectedly high due to a high spot charter rate. I also explained before that you shouldn't expect tanker stock to make a killing. Go to the older thread from few days ago and you'll find my explanation. The mean price of first two weeks of March is what the stock should be worth, although the uncertainty due the coronacrisis has pummelled these stocks back into high volatility.

As far as I know, most people in shipping are currently not having a good time. Even tanker owners are sweating. They know that any cash that is now coming into their holdings must be used to reduce leverage to weather the inpending storm.

>>18777873

I am orthodox. You do with your money want you want but I prefer to take money from an investment bank rather a individual person who read about shipping on 4chan.

tankers fell cause biz bought in and shilled, thus pointing out the market top. Same happened with longing oil at 30$, same happened with uso

>>18777789
>how you see the future of the industry? It's an industry that provides the circulation for the real world economy. Just wondering on a macro l


Cargo is fucked for sure, global trade will be affected. Worst case scenario is to see the global supply chain break, more home production means less expedition orders.

Shipping grows with (global) trade, looking at the current international politics the outlook is brim. My biggest fear is Europe jumping on a protectionist wave, similar to the current US approach.

For tankers, an bodged spot charter rate is not a buy signal. How long will it last? We don't know. Whatever is the case, profits made right now will go straight into building up capital and reducing leverage.

Especially watch out for Leveraged Holdings (with debt pushdown into subs) that have a fleet consisting primarily out of VLCCs older than 15y.o. High chances these will be the first to get into Chapter XI.

Whatever the case, the economy will take a hit so most markets will slow down. Shipping is just part of macro-economic cycle, it will not disappear only the ones that are overleveraged with low margins and little cash flow will be culled. Just don't invest in leveraged holdings with a small fleet.

>>18774257
Its annoying that's for sure. Would like to see some gains instead it is just dropping lower. Lost 50 euro already on this shit. Only saving grace is I also got MRO.

What do my tanker bros think of this letter from the CEO's of DHT? It's what got me on board together with their finances.

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Resource/Download/504abf13-9786-4d37-824a-d24a6d0b2020

>>18778470
Thanks Anon
I do love the shipping /threads when they pop up

>>18774257
>Why did tankers drop so hard?
Early buyers are dumping because the US is starting to reopen tomorrow which will increase the demand for oil. Tankers will go back up again because storage is expected to be full mid May to early June. I would hold off from buying back in until some time next week.

>>18778082
We were talking about this 3-4 weeks ago, before most people could spell the word "contango". You under a rock lol?
>>18777890
Good general advice. Got a thread link? I don't remember if I was in that one. I mostly just show up in oil/tankers ones.
I'm not sure I agree with the mid march valuation being "appropriate"- march valuations put us in the middle of largest downturn since 1929. Traditional forecasting methods may be very poor in current market conditions, and yes current plays are a bit of a gamble. Admittedly, I'm not playing a long game here; and will be out of my tanker plays by Q3 at the latest. Shipping is looking at a multi-year potential downturn and weathering that is definitely a priority, but that's a difference between active investing/speculation and very long term holds. I wish you and your family luck though if you're in that industry, you folks literally keep the world running.
Even i'm not sure about much past Q2, since if there's a 2nd wave / extended lockdown in fall/winter it'll totally shake up the market again.
>>18778804
Some of those smallest ships / handysize tankers are getting 100k/day spot rates. We'll know more when earnings start to hit and better forecasts can be made per company.

lookin like tankers hit support

>>18775056
This. Who do you think bought those -$30 futures? These lads are getting paid a mint to store oil that literally can't go anywhere else.

>>18779352
just loaded up on some more FRO

>>18779178

March valuation are solid buys, anything bought in april is overvalued due to high-speculation on tankers. Beginning of March takes into account the coronavirus fear and prospects on medium term expectations.

If you bought for march values you can keep on riding the wave bit longer because you have room to spare. If you bought in April, sell it and take your profits.

For the previous thread: I am not sure what title was but it ws something about tankers and negative oil prices. I pointed out that spot charter prices are not the same as 6month time charters. You also have to look at the sale of vessels, tankers down and cargo market is dead. Fixtures for VLCC are under the average (50/week as from 1 jan) because March saw a surge in fixtures, but the 20th of march we were already over 700 VCLL fixtures in 2020. Therefore little VCLL's are currently available to be chartered at the new spot price. Also, lo oil prices will not have much of an effect on shipowner stocks because bunkers are in principle not included in time charters. The charterer will have to arrange its own bunkers and at expiration of the charter return the ship with the same amount of fuel as it got it. This is standard practice. Any rational shipping company will use the surge in cash to build up capital and reduce leverage. Especially small highly leveraged holdings will mostly not pay out dividends based on the surge in price because the directors of these investment vehicles will want to avoid any director liability at all cost. Try to explain to the commercial court that you didn't see any reason to arrange financial buffers while the world is facing an unseen crisis. Family companies will also deter dividends and clean out their balance sheet because no one wants to lose his company to make small dividend-investors happy.

Thank you. Ngl, we are not having a good time. I remember downplaying the coronavirus in jan and feb. Oh boy was I wrong.

>>18779589
There's some weird stuff going on ever since that march drop, things that normally are priced in weeks in advance aren't hitting until it hits the news in some cases. I suspect whatever indicators the algos use to market buy are either broken, or mm's are busy with other things.
> charter prices / fixtures
Actually, that makes a lot of sense; if shipowners were locking in rates long before the oil crisis became common knowledge. The high rates are mainly going to be on the smallest ships then (LR1/LR2?)- still profitable, but like you said going to have a much more limited effect. When oil contango hits for "real" in a few weeks, any ships that come off time charter will be in demand for spot, which will last until it's profitable to sell the oil or empty land storage is available; whichever comes first. Most of the price action I expect with tankers is earnings speculation + irrationality due to too much oil, something the market has in abundance. What you said with fundamentals is spot on though, and hedging to weather the storm is what I would do, if I was in the sector.
> Corona
I was tracking this since last December. It seemed like nothing at first; but when news broke about an R value of 4+, I (and many other people) discretely stocked up on preps, and were looking at projections using the 1918 data. I came up with a number of something like 1.5+ million dead in the US alone, and remember telling one friend " I hope all that technology we came up with actually does something". I'm happy to be wrong. This might still happen- if we run into a 2nd wave mutation that decides to be extra lethal, who knows what will happen worldwide. Some of the sources I use are already predicting spooky 2nd/3rd order effects from the chaos you see now (think long term civil unrest+conflict), but who knows how that'll play out.

>>18780735
>already predicting spooky 2nd/3rd order effects from the chaos you see now (think long term civil unrest+conflict), but who knows how that'll play
I think people are going to lose their shit the longer the lockdown plays out

>>18780735
>Long term
Maybe this is my innate optimism; but every single time a pandemic breaks out, humanity has a golden period. The black death resulted in the renaissance, the 1918 flu, the roaring 20s. There's other world problems sure, but we'll likely see a resurgence of trade just a few years out- be it warfighting supplies, consumer goods, or all of the above. We'll all make it anon. Good luck!

>>18774257
keep holding there will be a glut in mid-may and oil will go negative again

>>18780908
Incredibly bad is an understatement. Finance system collapse, food shortages, viral mutation potential, balkanization of large countries... I'm honestly in the boat of giving everyone UBI at this point, because it seems to be monopoly money anyway so may as well bail out the people who actually need it, and not just millionaires. It'll buy time too, if the bad timeline is what plays out

>>18774315
What else would you use that lambo for if it's sole purpose is storing apples?

>>18781000
ehhhhhh... there was something else that happened in 1918 that could explain the roaring 20s lol

>>18778470
Europe will bend the knee to the chinks. Sad really how far we’ve fallen

>>18774257
FOR THE LAST TIME:
TANKER
PRICES
INVERSE
OIL
PRICE

You're a fucking idiot if you buy these stocks and can't grasp why this is.

>>18783477
FINALLY somebody with some experience speaks up
can you please tell us what happened the last time oil went into the negative multiple times in a single year while major producers continued pumping in a bid to put each other out of business and a worldwide lockdown brought demand for oil down to nothing?

>>18774506
>Tankers will not be used for storage as there are more economical alternatives
Are you gonna store some in your asshole? Quit trying to scare people into cheaper shares for yourself, you dumb faggot.

>>18783784
Was it kill?

>>18784491
idk i need that other anon to tell us

>>18774424

>thinking the lockdown will end

>>18783784
>what is a contango
cheaper oil = more demand for tankers to store oil for later sale at higher price = high charter spot prices for tankers = tanker companies make more money = tanker spot prices go up
Nothing in your post is relevant to tanker spot prices at the moment or the stock prices.

>>18784957
already is over in my state. Cars all over the road. Seethe faggot

>>18785086
>tanker companies make more money = tanker spot prices go up
Meant to say: tanker companies make more money = tanker stock prices go up

>>18785086
what you meant to say is that nothing in my post is relevant to the way you developed your assessment of tanker spot or stock prices

When it hits 5, will you buy?

>LMAO USO IS GOING TO COLLAPSE GUYS YOU ARE RETARDS TO PUT MONEY INTO IT

>I'm up 44K and it keeps going up

Jesus you people should never do business

>>18786656
Inferior to DHT. Pass

>>18786796
You're gonna be down 44k if you hold that piece of shit overnight. Take your $ and run.

>>18786796
post a screenshot or you're larping

>>18774711
so your argument is tankers dumped because they're making a shitload of money.

well done, put a star sticker on your helmet for me

>>18787644
see
>>18776653

>>18786656
Nat is the shittiest.
FRO
DHT
and
ADSC_ME
For me!

>>18777373
>Not going to repeat everything I said on the previous tanker thread, but the bottom-line is: don't invest in the shipping industry if you are not active in the sector; it is an opaque market so outsiders get little information.
Where can I learn more about it? Any books to read about it or people to hit up and talk to, maybe on twitter?

>>18774257
Buy may 25 oil futures

>>18787764
Why are people still wondering how come tankers went down?
Rates went down.

>>18775386

What was the nature of the work?

If any of you are interested in TNP, there was a vote for a 06/01/2020 reverse split, 5:1. Given that this will likely be during the time of peak oil glut, and 1st+2nd quarter earnings, plus divs, I suspect what they are trying to do is capitalize on what retail will see when attention is on tankers.

I like the play. If we're right on this one, we will be rallying til earnings then suddenly reverse split scam wick 500%. This will pull eyes to TNP and we could make out like bandits.

Just a thought if my fellow tanker chads are interested.

>>18787644
well i don't know the terms of their contracts but I wouldn't of thought the oil producer is paying extra every day the ship cant deliver

>>18781595
>What else would you use that lambo for if it's sole purpose is storing apples?
storing oil isn't the sole purpose of a tanker

if it were, they wouldn't be boat-shaped and have engines.

>>18774257
Why would tanker stock go up? The oil surplus is temporary. Its not like they are going to produce more tankers to store more oil for a year, and then what, just dismantle all of them when the surplus goes away?

>>18774901

No the 30k is opportunity cost, its like when the RIAA says they lost eleventy trillion dollars per year from song piracy.

>>18775056
>While having almost not expenses because they aren't spending money on fuel.
The tankers are eating cash on crew, support, and maintenance - and the insurance meter is always running. And, they have to move if the weather turns on them. The 30k is profit, but not as much as you think. The daily cost of running the big tankers daily, in normal operations, is 10-15k a day, on average. Even if they send half the crew home, there's gonna be a dozen guys on the ship at any time, and that's salary.
And, you have to figure in if the boats are chartered or not, because the oil hauling business is rarely by the load, it's a long contract where the company hires the boat for a year or longer, pays all the operating expenses, and the boat goes where they tell it to - to ferry oil between a depot and a refinery, or sit off the coast because the market got dry fucked by OPEC.
The boats making cash right now are the ones with no charter, who are getting the short term storage fees. What number is that? No clue. The ones with charters? They get paid, either way.
And, it's not necessarily a good idea to leave crude in a tank for too long. Wear and tear from this is gonna be brutal. Throw in pirate risks if your boats are stuck off the African coast, hurricanes, and everything else...and who the fuck knows how this will play out.
But I get it, /biz is a pack of idiots acting like they know fuck all about anything.

>>18777254
I don't think the final goal of this was to kill US shale - it was to start a new campaign to get pipelines from the ME to the EU. That's what Syria was over, and it failed. It's murky, geopolitical economic hitman shit, but I think there's way more at play here than a dumb "hurr we kill your shale" mustache twirling. The murkiest part is russia, and that's how Putin wants it - he was backing Syria, because they were blocking pipes through there to the EU - which would gut their profits, and they're a majority player in natural gas there. Now? They had a price to join in on this OPEC plan, but it's impossible to know exactly what that price was.
But I think this has way more to do with the Sauds/OPEC nations trying to get into the EU, and the impact on the US shale industry was a bargaining chip.
Might have even worked - if Obama and Hillary were still around. Or if Biden/Bernie won.

PS - electric cars are irrelevant to this discussion.

>>18790090
It should be obvious by now anything be shilled on /biz/ is guaranteed to lose money.
Imma gonna start an inverse ETF that just inverses /biz's/ plays everyday. In a year I'll be able to buy an island and fill it with catgirls.

>>18786656
Fuck it... I was mocking y'all before, but I just can't resist easy money since I'm a gambling degenerate. I just bought $6,000 worth of NAT despite the dip and am gonna let it ride.

My wife is going to kill me because of all the money I've lost already. And we really needed this money to buy a new car, but I just don't wanna fomo'd.

>>18792464
I dropped 80k on EURN and STNG when it dipped today. 50k cash 30k on margin. It may still drop a little but I sold some xash secured puts incase it drops I will get assigned cheaper. Then I sold some covered calls to lower my cost basis. I'm all in. VLCCs are literally making over 100k a day and these stocks paid big dividends. I'm expecting a 2015 style run up, 2-3x at least.

>>18788875
Source in the split?

Tankers are literally making more than double of their Q4 results, they don't even the price hike to maintain their current dividend.

Remember to only buy tankers that pay a dividend, otherwise they are just memes.

Which tanker stocks pay the fat divvies

Read below if you want actual analysis on the situation. It is very simple business model to understand, and free cash flow is shooting to the moon. Near record high global oil production before onset of crisis while now record low consumption over the past decade+. LONG LONG LONG the following - EURN, FRO, TNK, and STNG.

t. Private Equity analyst

>>18795014
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4338753-oil-chaos-crude-tankers-perfect-setup

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3556283-oil-tanker-rates-keep-surging-amid-one-of-greatest-quarters-in-history

https://classicvalueinvestors.com/2020/04/29/fight-between-the-bulls-and-bears-of-oil-tanker-stocks-continues/

>>18793726
I'm heavy in EURN and FRO. What do you think about TNK and STNG?

>>18791386
Syria was more over gas pipelines IMO than oil. The proxy war spiraled out of control though, and we ended up with ISIS taking over half of Iraq and Syria.
> "hurr we kill your shale" mustache twirling
This was just an attack of opportunity, a nice side effect of the US-Russia price war. Pushing down prices also totally prices a competitor out of the market. I don't think they expected it to happen as quickly as it did, but Corona made for a nice amplifying effect. US shale will likely get bailed out and bounce back rather quickly, but even a few years with limited US exports means $$$ for saud and co. Marginal suppliers set prices, and removing a big one is a no brainer trade war move.
I don't want to think what would have happened had Hillary won. War with Russia or more ME conflict was guaranteed.
>electric cars are irrelevant
They're not. It's a 2nd order root cause. What is the largest use of gasoline on the planet? What happens when a dominant transport method is replaced with another one, that claims less pollution, less maintenance, and is cheaper to operate than gas engines?
This really deserves it's own thread, but suffice it to say Saud knows that within 20 years, they'll start to become irrelevant again on the world stage. There is no reason to buy oil from angry sand people when you only need it for manufacturing, big transport (boats mainly), and older applications. Gas will never go away, but Steve next door will be driving whatever the electric version of a Toyota corolla is in 2035, and so will most other people.

>>18795053
No dividend = no buy
Only buy tankers with a history of rewarding their shareholders

>>18795083
So your strategy is to take massive dividends over the next 1-2 quarters then exit?

>>18795027
This is why I see 4-10x possible in the entire sector. Irrational market, combined with fed pumping, and investors looking for perceived safe havens. Tankers giving out huge divvy is pretty enticing even for newbies. The recent movements resembling MM accumulation plays are just that- getting into position for a large run to come.
>mfw options premiums give no good entry now and i'm stuck with what I picked up weeks ago.
>>18795216
It's an insanely low risk play, but you need 100k+ to get anything substantial off of it.

>>18795246
>just invest 100k trust me bro

I have a feeling>>18791137
will be right

>>18795216
>>18795246
Its to sell after the dividend is declared, tankers are cyclical and no cuck is going to baghold a <1m marketcap stock just because they do share buybacks. Dividends give a reason for people to invest in them.

>>18795246
Yes, agreed. I see the contango lasting for much longer than people realize. America has become so damn good at pulling oil out of the ground due to our fracking technology, and the moment the price goes up a little bit all of the pumps turn back on in the Permian and oversupply continues. Meanwhile, the market is behaving as if there will be a V-shaped crude demand recovery - no way. It will be a slow return to normalcy.

>>18795291
EURN and FRO both have around a $2b market capitalization...

>>18795318
Yes, but no one wants to hold tankers for long unless they pay a dividend, thats why you don't buy the non-dividend payers.

Stocks go up and down. The play still has solid fundamentals.

So retards that got stuck with a buying contract are now paying for storage or what?

>>18795334
That depends on how long this lasts... The smaller companies with large debt loads at poor interest rates can pay down their notes and buyback shares...

>>18795387
Share buybacks and debt repayment don't reward shareholders

>>18795398
Yes they do... they raise the intrinsic enterprise value if the activity is accretive... For example, they can pay down bonds with a 6-8% coupon and seek a new refinance facility at a lower leverage level at 4-5% rates - that is a massive interest rate savings.

>>18795436
Normies don't care about share buy backs or debt repayment, they want their dividends. Buying back debt doesn't mean anything to me when I'm going to dump your stock in a year's time. Just pay me the dividends for the 9 months that I hold.

>>18795515
Stock movement doesn't come from little anchovies it comes from giant sharks and whales who live on Wall Street and wear Hermes ties. Market is going to start tanking again after AAPL/AMZN earnings plus Exxon/Chevron and that money will rotate into tankers and gold stocks.

>>18779589
>I remember downplaying the coronavirus in jan and feb. Oh boy was I wrong.

No offense but what kind of retard works in global trade and didn't put that shit together. Opinion literally discarded with that comment