/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18488166

>>18488166
>Is Mathematics Discovered or Invented?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mVWd1aLiYZQU8VvYFBnW8kxodeYim3bYDIFfh-w42eU/pub

invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

>>18488166
At first it was invented, then discovered

>>18488199
yeah I'm familiar with Godel's theorem
it starts to overlap into epistemology

>Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems of mathematical logic that demonstrate the inherent limitations of every formal axiomatic system capable of modelling basic arithmetic. These results, published by Kurt Gödel in 1931, are important both in mathematical logic and in the philosophy of mathematics. The theorems are widely, but not universally, interpreted as showing that Hilbert's program to find a complete and consistent set of axioms for all mathematics is impossible.

how would Godel's theorem apply to the Pythagorean theorem for example?
the proof is in the pudding, there is no measuring meter accurate enough to measure the hypotenuse to the exact theoretical mathematical precision that Pythagoras' theorem provides.

>>18488166
>>18488199
>>18488200

>>18488200
>At first it was invented, then discovered
https://youtu.be/sKtloBAuP74
https://youtu.be/fEWj93XjON0

>>18488239
>it starts to overlap into epistemology
things would still remain true, even if no one was around to prove them to be true

>>18488299
>things would still remain true, even if no one was around to prove them to be true

>>18488258
>he doesn't understand what i mean
>he doesn't ask for further explainations
>he posts a tom cruise picture laughing
ok, you're definitely going to solve this

>>18488480
I was just chegging those immediate dubs
please if you have something more to say, by all means share it here. This is more of a discussion thread anyway, there is no final solution that we can arrive at since I believe this debate will continue going on.

>>18488239
mathematics is true as far as it is useful

>>18488166
why does it matter if either is the case, and why can't it be both?

>>18488508
Ok
You assume that math is one, but it's not.
It can be separated into different fields, like algebra, geometry, calculus and so on.
Those fields have different ages.
I said that it was first "invented" because the first thing is number.
People "invented" numbers to count things, to separate "few" and "many" and actually figure out how many things were "many".
Then.
They started "discovering" properties in numbers.
This is a raw hypothesis.

>>18488166
Math is a language. Languages are invented to communicate. Science is created to describe what is observed in nature.

>>18488574
>>18488540
there's something further than that
the mathematics is describing the physical world with such precision that it belies a deeper relationship beyond just human mapping of metrics.
it implies that there is a structure to reality that we are capable of describing and using
for example, I suspect that through the use of quantum computers (real ones, not the simulated ones in laboratories), we will be able to send messages forwards and backwards in time
like in the movie interstellar

>>18488166
Universe is one of many simulations. Math only exists because we reside in a far-advanced computer.

>>18488620
>You assume that math is one, but it's not.
>It can be separated into different fields, like algebra, geometry, calculus and so on.
it's funny, Penrose mentions this in the interview:
when the ancient Greeks were studying geometry and it was based on Euclid, they did not appreciate at the time that they were actually studying physics
it wasn't until we learned more about the nature of light did we realize that Euclidian geometry does not apply to the real world

>>18488299
pic related

Invented by Our Lord, discovered my Man after the fall.

https://www.famousscientists.org/great-scientists-christians/

>>18488620
>They started "discovering" properties in numbers.
I would say that those properties always existed irrespective of whether or not they were discovered yet

>>18488666
666-witnessed

completely off topic, but this game is too good:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/883710/RESIDENT_EVIL_2__BIOHAZARD_RE2/
never played resident evil when I was younger, but have been playing this one a lot

>>18488299
I used to believe this (not at all with this version with epistemology) but Math and Physics are 2 different fields that use the same language. They're exclusive to one another as fields. With Physics, we use math as tools to help better describe the observations. PURE Math, the field, they delve into finding relationships between numbers. Yes, there are spin off "tech" or formulas that find their use in Physics, but Math as a field is not the root of Physics. They require different mindsets.

>>18488630
the precision is anthropic.
Repetition of results is not evidence repetition will continue

>>18488714
What do you think about this, 42?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_zfMyzXqfI

>>18488656
Pytagoras had a sacred concept of numbers, and they "discovered" many properties.
What now you assume is in some field, could even fall into another field in the future.


>>18488678
this is because you're a neo-platonic and you don't know, or maybe you do.

>>18488757
read about that a while back
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79B00752A000300070001-8.pdf
paleo-magnetism is a very interesting field of study

>>18488166
The language and technique is invented. The abstract underlying principle is inherent.

>>18489483
basically this

>>18488239
>how would Godel's theorem apply to the Pythagorean theorem for example?
the proof is in the pudding, there is no measuring meter accurate enough to measure the hypotenuse to the exact theoretical mathematical precision that Pythagoras' theorem provides.
Gödel's theorem isn't about going "Haha even the most basic theorem might actually be wrong xd." It tells you that every logical framework must have a singularity. In other words, every question-answer matrix features a paradox.

Its discovered. All knowledge exists between 0 and 1 as a decimal. If you converted every decimal to an English text string.

>>18488630
The paper you reference here - expanding lorentz transforms into superluminal reference frames - had a pretty funny answer to the time-looped-quantum-algorithm possibility.

They point out that as things become superluminal, 3 of their vector dimensions are effectively temporal and motion remains congruent between them. So yea, we can def measure particles from a second ago. It just takes a second to do it xD

Isn't the universe adorable?

Bounded property of real numbers

>>18489644
universe keks

>>18489644
>So yea, we can def measure particles from a second ago. It just takes a second to do it xD
Forever trapped in a prism of light
It’s what dr Manhattan talks about in watchmen when he says “it’s always too late”

mathematics is a subset of the Word of God, it only exists so long as God continues to exist and speak the Word of Creation. just read the Bible holy shit it's so fuckin easy, it doesn't take that long.

Nature is discovered, mathematics is invented to explain nature

>another linkuck thread

>>18489688
Kek

Math is woven into the very fabric of existence. You can't invent math any more than you can invent molecular structure.

And within that molecular structure, you find math

Kleros is discovered first then language is invented to communicate it. Sirs.

>>18489644
what manner of tranny talks like this

>>18489673
>comicbooks
>MUH AYYLUM MOORAN

>>18489692
No it’s a 42 thinks he’s has hidden knowledge and responds with pics and gifs thread

>>18488166
Discovered

>>18489692

>>18489769
You will understand when you are ready, friend

>>18488166
Math is discovered from invented axioms, themselves being human abstractions that have no basis in reality.

>>18489769
>No it’s a 42 thinks he’s has hidden knowledge
That’s why I’m posting on a public forum
Because it’s (((hidden)))

>>18489769
and he is a well known linkuck

go on 42

say that thing youre famous for

go on

say it

>>18489801
The last part of your statement is probably false
>no basis in reality
Where are my posts on 4chan, if not based in reality?
Why do you think we use the term “based”
Because it’s “based on truth”

>>18489754
The very thing you measured already existed before you measured it.

Math as we know it is one of the biggest meme of humanity. It's getting replaced by computable mathematics anyways.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT8NyyRgLDQ
And the based man wolfram

it seems many on here don't know the difference between discover and invent

>>18489483
Without the invention of language and technique, can we claim what we comprehend to really exist?

>>18488166
Math is a study of naturally occurring patterns and logic. So it is discovered.

>>18488166
Math is a language used to describe events and phenomena around the world. Things happen, and we use math to understand them. English wasn't "discovered", but buildt for many years.

The only things that are discovered, are the phenomena that math describe.

>>18489673
What do you think the idea that magnetic fields, gravity, and atomic forces, are each expressions of the same thing - polarization of dielectric inertia?

I think it's interesting to consider in connection with Stephen Wolfram's idea that the fundamental self-similar unit of everything that may make up a universe could be a node in a non-dimensional network graph, ticking away through increments of time, quanta by quanta, with a state reliant on the state of its neighbors.

And is consistent with the above mentioned idea that superluminal expressions are possible in our universe, they just preclude observation because relativity is a thing.

>>18489851
What's there is already there, you obviusly try to understand using your instruments (your eyes, your brain).
If any of them changed, your entire set of techniques would have changed.
What this cuck does is just to simply give up the human understanding, believing that machine understanding can do better.
The result could probably be that you don't understand shit anymore and you become a nigger in a cage that is smarter than you.

>>18489928
That too, you can describe phenomena in a lot of different mathematical ways, so in this math is still a tech, and thus it was invented.

>>18489873
This.

>>18488666
Based

>>18488166

>>18488166
Hey fren.
What type of cold wallet do you recommend for chainlink?
Thanks

>>18488630
>>18490087
I have been looking at ledger nano or trezor?
Just a wagie from the US.

discovered.
physics too.

see the image attached, the quantum periodic table. was discovered. from that, a superior form of math can be discovered.

>>18488619
Nah. You haven’t done enough research or critical thinking

>>18488745
The original is a sick game. Fun puzzles, dark, sad, almost no hope.

We love you 42. Thanks for telling us to buy LINK

>>18490083
the fuck kind of stupid ass try hard 9 is that?

>>18488166
The world as you see it does not exist. It is an abstraction of a limited brain.

>>18490169
I have ledger nano s

>>18490312
Thank you fren.

I recently ordered a nano x and s.
The s is the backup cold wallet with the x as a hot wallet.

>42 is a time traveler.
https://youtu.be/1Gtf0yXLI7A

>not saying this is 42 but 42 transcends time

>>18490397
>>18490312
>>18489828

>>18488239
The problem with the Pythagorean Theorem is that it runs into Zeno's Paradox. Just take a base of 1 and a height of 1 and you get the square root of 2, an irrational number, as your hypoteneuse. A number that goes on forever and yet it definitely reaches an end. Whole numbers cannot answer that. Even got a man killed for providing a proof that they never could.

>>18489826
Kys faggot
Also buy LINK

>>18490083
Nice... but what they don't know and have been mistaking for years is that the pent-agram has 10 points and is referring to the number 10, while the star of david has 12. If people cod understand these things more esoteric knowledge would open up to them.

>>18490555
>555

>>18488166
>>18488172
>>18488198
100% discovered my friend, based 42.

Would be fun to participate in these threads but I’m too much of a brainlet and quantum mechanics goes way over my head.
What book would you recommend for a beginner on this topic.

>>18490169
I use nano ledger s

>>18490500
That's the point. The true length of the hypotenuse squared really is the sum of the squares of the other sides. The logic remains true even when the number system used to express it breaks down.

>>18490760
Einstien's original work Relativity is super readable and short. Tesla's writing is schizo and silly but generally points out where the relativity crew drew short. Modern reading, stick to systems theory, network graphs, and game theory.

>>18490778
>god bless

>>18490788
Of course. But it shows a flaw in whole numbers hence Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems.

>>18489873
This.

It is obviously discovered. What you call Reality is being created out of mathematics.

>>18488166
>My father and me
Kys

>>18491292

>>18488166
such a simple question and so many replies. you just know that this is a brainlet board

>>18488166
Discovered. The universe is merely space with a single electron traveling through it.

>>18488166
Wtf dude. I watched this yesterday. What are the chances?

>>18488619

It is a language of describing patterns, captured (abstracted out) from the environment and invented.

It is study of patterns and formal systems crated out of those patterns.

Abstract mathematics is invented, underlying patterns are discovered.

/thread

>>18488630

So, you are just an abstract bullshitter. Some liberal arts college dropout.

Fuck off

your ass willingly accepting your fathers cock is far from a mathematical debate

>>18488643

Computer is not a simulation, faggot. Universe is a process, you fucking imbecile.

>>18488678

You are an idiot. Numbers are generalized abstract notions. There is nothing in them apart from piling up stuff in heaps.

Yes, some big heaps have such and such properties, including "being prime" but the abstract notion of primeness does not exist outside your head or what is called socially constructed culture.

>>18488756

Yes, only understanding of the true nature of the underlying process which produces repetitions will tell.

Everything is a process in this universe. Nothing but processes.

Not just that, universe itself is just one single unfolding process. Everything else is just abstract bullshit, like religions or numerology.

>>18488166
Here's a better question.
Does mother nature have geometry.
As soon as something exists it has "math" to it.
Humans are late to the game and Discovered "God" effectively.

>>18489754

Patterns exist, not math, you fucking faggot. Math is a language, a formal system.

>>18491783
>3 is not prime without humans
Sure thing.

>Universe is a process, you fucking imbecile.
hahaha just say things follow each other and call it process hahaha. Retard.

>>18491842

Fuck off, faggot. Proneness of 3 means that a heap of 3 pieces of stuff cannot be taken apart for any number of equality sized heaps of stuff.

The heaps itself does not possess this property. It requires an external observer to establish such a property. Heaps of atoms does not care whether their number is prime or not. The are no numbers outside your mind.

Now fuck off.

>>18492027
>hurrdurr if no mind knows the concept of prime, primeness does not exist cos I think so

You'll get there retard anon, it's a... a process.

>>18492054

Fuck, you can't even read.

>>18492120
>The are no numbers outside your mind.
Whereas you can't type, remember what you tried to type or make an argument. At least you managed 'fuck' a few times. Big boy.

>>18490250
>The original is a sick game. Fun puzzles, dark, sad, almost no hope.
RE:2 the remake is fucking dope
>pic related
mfw been playing this non-stop last two days
https://youtu.be/AEZW91Vowz8

>>18488166
i would say both.

Math is a system to explain the universe and it's principles. The system was invented, and the principles were discovered.

>>18488166

It's a way to express patterns that already exist in nature, so while the symbolism is invented by us, the patterns are discovered.

>>18488239

The proof is in the perception of the pudding

>>18488714
I've been following the 6's

guess I'm in the right place

>>18489806
God has been talking to me about perception, understanding, and hidden((ness)) recently. Hope to share something with you soon.

>>18488166
It's both. It's facts discovered but described by a man made creation.

>>18488166
Discovered. My dog has mathematical skills for fucks sakes.