/biz/ - Business & Finance

Peace sells, but who's buyin?

they can pump it as a much as they want, people are starting to not trust it. Buy bitcoin and hold chainlink.

>>18471609

Hahaha recovery? No

I dont know whether the FED is outright propping up stock prices, or the belief that the FED is propping up stock prices is propping up stock prices

Or hedge funds are perpetuating the idea of FED propping and will cash out at the 1st peak since crash to make up losses and then crash the bitch.
or hedge funds are banking on the FED propping and is backing up the FED by following suit??

Or it will be the first peak and then everyone will just say "okay this is cool" and then it keeps going up forever, again.

Or it wont be a peak at all and be a weird squiggly line and everything just kinda goes on.

I dont know, this is all very weird. I dont know why anyone would purchase within a month and recover a 3rd of the DOW drop at the very beginning of an epidemic with record shattering unemployment, unless all the big money players are playing chicken with each other and all the smalltime investors are following suit. I don't why why the FED would make stock propping so blatant unless their was an ulterior motive to an ulterior motive?? ?

Maybe im just blinded by the big drop. I dont know.
How long America can keep renting the Ferrari instead of just driving a beat up Honda for a little?

>>18471725

I’m just as lost.

Could it be that big players are already bought on the inflation theory that they just rather hold assets than USD ?

It’s all very very weird.

>>18471609
>>18471725
The Fed is buying toxic assets like junk bonds from banks and hedgefunds. Those institutions are turning around with that fresh USD and buying stocks.

World's biggest short squeeze.

>>18471609
How are articles being written TODAY that cites fund managers expecting a U-shaped recovery? Buddy that ship has sailed. It was V-shaped.

>>18471609
I used to try to be logical and sensible. I followed the news and made sensible investments. It's a waste of time. just go with your gut. The whole system is a scam, you're retarded if you believe anything these Jews say.
>trump can't win
>nayirah testimony
>libyan soldiers being given viagra to go and rape people
>WMDs
>white genocide is a conspiracy theory
>jews are our greatest ally
etc. etc. etc.

>>18472169
Do you have evidence of this? it seems like distressed companies wont be able to do buy backs if they are facing a massive revenue drop.

Isn't there also a problem with loading yourself up on cheap debt? it's still debt. Also what happens if you have to turn over the debt and it's not as cheap as it was?

>>18472232
The thing is that the economy hasn’t recovered yet, just speculation has pumped stock prices up.

It’s not V shape if the economy falls...

>93% of those in the survey believe we’re heading for recession
Just a reminder: Majority always looses money

>>18472169

That doesn’t make sense when funds are hoarding cash at the maximum lvl since 9/11. Funds sure aren’t the one pushing it since their cash balance indicates that they expect to buy lower in the future.

>>18472249
Even if the virus disappeared today so much economic damage has been done I don't see how the real economy doesn't take years to recover.

Think about how long it takes to hire down a 15% unemployment rate (that's the current rate. It will probably be 20% before we reopen). People will not be in the mood or position to take out lots of debt for the next couple years. Consumers are going pull back.

I get the impression things are going on that retail investors like us just don't understand. I also think there were massive problems in the bond market before the whole virus thing happened and the fed is using that as an excuse to bail out all the big companies.

Finally on top of the virus we were in the middle of a massive asset bubble in equities, but also different sectors. The economy needs to correct for both the previous bubble and the virus caused issues.

It's pretty clear that stock markets are only billionaires playground with that. Nobody can buy yet they go up. Why? Because culture capital goes up. It's like bitmex pumping bitcoin. Price does not increase because of normal people's lunch money. So it's pretty clear that clown markets are decoupled from economy performance and just pushed into whatever direction by market makers. No difference to crypto but just more socially accepted.

>>18472344
vulture capital*

>>18471609
the Fed and Trump.

>>18472243
you forgot
>It's not the flu

>>18472333

I wholeheartedly agree with you mr 333trips of truth. Problem is tho that in that scenario stock prices should be falling and not recovering

This is the most retarded DEAD BAT BOUNCE ever...

the injection of billions of liquidity in the space of a single minute at fed injection windows e.g. GMT 20:50, 20:55 etc inevitably ends up in equities. you can see the effects on the market on the 1 min candle. it is truly a sight to behold

>>18471609
>recession
>Stock market
These things are no longer related.

>>18472388

>>18472388

Look at that volume! You’re on to something. What index and day is that print from?

>>18472399

How and why ?

>>18471609
>people putting their trumpbox in TSLA

>>18472169
>>18472246
>>18472266

Could be some of those professional counterfeiters out there playing intermediary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6tn2oAbdA

The market and share prices are going up almost as violently fast as they did right before the initial plunge.

It's spooky as hell.

>>18472388
What is the end game of all this besides economic collapse?
Are they going to fake it till they make it?
I'm not a certified money printer technician but how long can you sustain a fake economy?

Does the FED plan on reverse-shorting (or how they say, "invest") the stock market with the intention to unload their bags when everything stops being shit?
What happens if the FED made a bad call on buying the dip?

>>18472492

Well if the FED got it all wrong the consequence is the devaluation of the US dollar plus a fuckload of inflation. Fed seens to be stuck, no room to push interest rates lower and too much debt to push them up to fight upcoming inflation.

Yet prices are soaring...

Hit me straight, I’m a pretty unmotivated investor that invests only in index funds for retirement

I was planning on putting 10k in my roth IRA for 2019 and another 10k for 2020 at the bottom, but clearly that’s come and gone. Should I just pull the trigger now or wait?

>>18472545

I mean, how can anybody even know what’s cheap and what’s expensive when (and if) you’re competing against the money printer por a finite amount of shares

>>18472387
"Wall Street Turns a Blind Eye to Catastrophic U.S. Economic Data"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/wall-street-turns-a-blind-eye-to-catastrophic-u-s-economic-data?srnd=premium

LOL

It's almost like things are fucked so bad that the market just doesn't believe it's true. Kind of like when you break a bone and don't feel any pain at first.

>>18472603
No one can and you have the reasons. Still some think it's smarter to leave their money in some well working companies rather than dollar who loses value the money they print. This is probably also why it goes up. Dollar is worse than any crypto with infinite supply possibly created at any given time by its owners.

>>18472243
>aliens exist
>the world is flat
>we never went to the moon
>vaccines cause autism
>reptilians are controlling humanity

>>18472642

>>18472603
Nobody is able to and that makes everyone worry about the current situation.

But keep one thing in mind, when we really V recover after this crisis without retesting the bottom again, then free market is officialy dead and you can FOREVER LONG the market with a every little cent you have.

Every fucking downside risk will get annihilated by central banks and only short term corrections are a thing anymore.

Or every fucking stock market will end like Japan, then RIP.

>>18472603
>>18472673
How much safeguard can one reasonably argue exists in the government to prevent a much bigger fuckup?
Everything thats been done from when this corona fiasco started has come off as reactionary panic.

Are they really playing 5D chess, or are these the kind of people you have to explain the rules of Tic-Tac-Toe to?

>>18472693
you glow so hard it hurts, shlomo

>>18471609
The Fed
Algorithms
Rothschild
Buffett

>>18472243
replies are all faggots, me excluded

>>18472258
not in this case. it's like asking people if the sky is blue

>>18472757
>The Fed
FED buys nothing besides junk ETFs and that is just recently.
>Algorithms
True, mostly them. Volume agrees with that theory.
>Rothschild
Since you think they are buying, they are selling probably right now. Insider trading ftw.
>Buffett
He has a record high cash reserve still on the sideline. So no, clearly big boys are not buying, except some utterly undervalued stocks.

>>18472751

If that’d be the case we would live in a retarded inflafion. Assets pumping higher and higher -since they’ve become fail proof- and the fed would have to own the whole American economy eventually. Does not make sense

>>18472232
Not W. VU shape

What happens if the FED is the only buyer?
Are they pulling the trigger too early on the Quantitative Easing?

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN

>>18472184
This. Short the hell out of it

>>18472819

Remember lord Keynes tho

“The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent”

>>18472819

Specially when on the other end of the trade there’s a buyer gambling with infinite fresh printed money

>>18472819
Im already short and so far every day is pain

>>18472875
I'm still new to options. When do your shorts expire? How do you structure your strategy?

I thought the market would crash by this week. My shorts would have expired Friday, but I extended it at a large cost.

>>18471609
>>18471619
>>18471667
>>18471725
>>18472169
>>18472371
>>18472492
>>18472543
The Fed hired BlackRock to buy bonds, which they are, but they are also buying stocks too - although it's not really being disclosed. The banks aren't in a healthy enough position to buy stocks themselves to help stabilize the market. Trump is putting the banks in the corner for timeout like a little child. This is causing the banks to stay in a holding pattern where Trump has all the leverage. He is using the Fed to buy everything up with BlackRock doing the trades.

The big banks have always had the power, but now Trump not only controls the production & injection of dollars, but he will also be a majority stakeholder in many, many publicly traded companies through the Fed to a certain extent. After Trump gets everything he wants, the Fed will close shop because we will be cashless eventually and the Fed will be absorbed by the Treasury. The Treasury will then own everything and the entire economy will be nationalized.

Every single dollar in ciruclation, both paper and digital will be converted into 'Treasury Coin' or "Fed Coin', whatever the fuck you want to call it. All dollars will be converted at a 1 to 1 ratio for the Treasury digital coin/token. This also serves a purpose for keeping the big banks in check. Once everything becomes Treasury coin, the big banks will not be able to use fraudulent leverage by investing with dollars. The banks will only be able to invest with what they have in their reserves. They can't make fake 'Treasury Coin' and everything will be tracked. Banks will have to only invest with what they actually have - no leverage bullshit anymore.

People also need to understand that we are entering the next industrial revolution. In the past, industrial revolutions would be what we currently define as an economic reset. Trump wants everything to be nationalized so he an control the transition by having majority stakes in all the companies/economy.

>>18472890

This >>18472831
>>18472842

Don’t try to time the irrational AND THE FUCKING FED...

>>18471609
>WHO’S BUYING AT THOSE PRICES ?

Jerome 'the brrrrr' Powell.

/thread

>>18472923
Is there any guarantee to this or is this speculation?
How much planning would one have to put into making a play like this before execution?
What happens if Trump fails re-election before this grand plan is fully realized?

Again, is this 5D chess or rock paper scissors?

>>18472780
thanks for clearing that up

>>18471609
It's pumping so they can sell high
Then we crash after all the cronies have done so
Then they buy low
Simple, really

>>18472802
VL shape.

>>18473079
Is this real

>>18472923
>After Trump gets everything he wants, the Fed will close shop because we will be cashless eventually and the Fed will be absorbed by the Treasury. The Treasury will then own everything and the entire economy will be nationalized.
how will this happen tho? Isn't the Fed a cartel of the biggest banks? How would this take place? I mean I wish it happened but I don't really see a legal way to do it

>>18473032
Trump is a bought and paid for asset. All you need to look at is wilbur ross(rothschild front man) who bailed out trump. When asked why he replied " The trump name is very much an asset" ....

>>18472169
This

>>18473333
Fucking quads

>>18473333
>>18472169
Quads confirms

>>18473333
Quads confirms..
The Treasury gives orders for newly issued debt to the Fed at it's stake and then instructs the Fed to multiply that stake, by a factor of ten (through printing fresh money). The $450 billion becomes $450 trillion and is handed over to a Hedge Fund (Blackrock) to distribute. And the details of the distribution are all tied up in confidentiality clauses and opacity.

The American way is to help out wealth creators in their time of suffering. Don't see how that's "bad". They profit from it, and so does the working joe.

>>18472781
Communism rarely does sadly

>>18472693
>hurr durr every claim that goes against mainstream thought has an identical level of credibility
literally nobody believes your strawmen while anyone reasonable knows the other claims anon posted are true

>>18473613
"socialism is bad and unamerican when it's about giving money to people, it's only good and American when it's about giving a lot more money to corporations": the post

The federal reserve is fascist

Venezuela recently had their best stockmarket gains in bolivar terms in their history.

>>18472169
This. And it isn't some sort of manichean 4d chess on the Feds part. People have been quietly freaking out about corporate debt for two years. Corporate debt to GDP is so the highest ratio in history. It's bigger than the mortgage market now. $4.2 trillion due in 2020, $1T in spec grade, and 50% it investment grade was BBB. When BBB gets downgraded, pensions have to sell legally. Many downgrades = fire sale.

The giant drop in March was people afraid of debt defaults. There Fed firmed that up by saying it will buy junk and BBB. Yields were super low before this. Junk bonds were yieliding not much over 4%. That's why so much bad debt was sold, investors chasing yields. People are happy to dump those now for cash to buy back into equities at a discount.

They aren't worried about 2020 earnings, they want to buy back into something with long term yields above the precrash garbage of 4%.

It's bad for the average American in the sense that zombie corporations that should go bankrupt like JC Penney are being kept alive, and that debt is being issued against future government investment and Social Security payments to help mostly wealthy investors. 401ks ain't shit, 2.5% of the population owns 95% of equities. The 401k is an accident that somehow got plumbers and cops to care about short term drops in a market they are bacteria in.

The risk is that: the $3T deficit and all those T notes suck any private investment out of the system for job returns, and/or inflation hits just 4-5%, not crazy high, and turns almost all fixed income issued from 08-19 into negative real yield toxic shit. Pensions assume a discount rate of 6-9%. This will kill them.

TLDR, Fed is saving the much larger/important bond market, not stonks. Stonks just benefit. States and cities need a strong bond market to borrow through this too or cash flow dies. You need tax anticipation notes, BANs, etc. being bought.

>>18471725
Unemployment of the plebs doesn't mean anything because they have no purchasing power anyways

>>18471609
>Fund managers going big on cash
>FED starts to dump dollars
>Funds lose their asset's value as dollar gets cheaper
>Stock hodlers win this time

>>18471619
great album

>>18474131
America had its lowest rate of inflation in 5 years Q1. We will probably see deflation in Q2. Inflation may come, but not until we reopen.

Hyper inflation isn't needed to crash the economy. 4.5% will turn real bond yields negative. Hyperinflation isn't a real risk here, but the bond market collapsing is. As for actual T note issuance, the real risk there is it sucking cash out of the system. If we have a sovereign debt crisis and interest goes up it won't be until after the crisis. The dollar is getting stronger now not weaker.

>>18472693
>Mercury poisoning is a conspiracy

>>18472751
>This

>>18472344
this, billiokikes are now all powerful, they changed the rules so they can't lose anymore, only win always more. A special talmudic digital market, where the rules of real economy do not apply, where every loss is socialized and get compensated by taxpayers' money, kindly handled out by the corrupt gubment, but where every penny gained is privatized.

>>18471609
false trichotomy it's going to be an I shaped recovery. as in it's not recovering, ever

The wallstreet jews know shit is fucked. They and their government shabbos goyim are coordinating one final pump and dump before gravity wins out

>>18472470
>(((fake bonds)))
The absolute balls of the amerimutts. These "fake" bonds were issued by the fucking FED in 1935 in exchange of SEA gold owners shipping their gold to the US to protect their assets against confiscation by the Japan imperial army...
It was the biggest scam in the history of mankind. You still have hundreds of families from the chinese/korean/vietnamese/cambodian aristocracy seething at amerimutts and reclaiming their gold. All the families detaining these bonds tried a class action in swizterland, and miraculously the italian policy get their hands on them and the US declare them counterfeited? What a pathetic masquerade lmao..

Yeah I dunno, shits fucked

>>18475284

>>18475284
Bonds' maturity happened in 2008 if i remember correctly, and for years the families' lawyers tried to get them authentificated by the FED and the treasury, who always refused to even just answer their phone calls, yet it was authentificated as real by more than 70 specialists worldwide.
Imagine how much 6 trillions of 1934 dollarinos would be worth by today's standards.

If you want to dig into the rabbit hole, seach for 2 black opex :
- operation Black Eagle Trust
- operation Golden Lily

>>18475284
>>18475324
>>18475432
God-damn Americans are pieces of shit.

>>18475284
Look at this fat lying kike, i'm surprised the families of victims present in the room don't slice his morbidly obese throat out of anger. Well, serve them right for believing the eternal goylem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfUvV8fxs_Y

>>18475584
Yes, the US (((shadow gubment))) truly have no limit when it's about scamming and stealing stuff. I mean they go as far as bombing, murdering and poisoning their own citizens, true evil in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZAhYCwe_bs&list=PLq2cZLtgK0PIZRElfEAgGwjzHp-TmbJAj

>>18475584
Sorry meant to say Government..

Amazon is at a new ATH. Yes, they’re important but god fucking damn this is still nuts.

>>18471656
>Buy bitcoin and hold chainlink.
nice

>>18472923
http://archive.is/fEbK0

>>18473032
Here's your source bro for what's currently going on (the stock buyback). The plan to go to a new currency is based on opportunities given by pic related's move and him being interested in returning to the gold standard. He even nominated Judy Shelton, someone very vocal about returning to the gold standard, to the Federal Reserve's board.

>>18471609
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck3FuTzZvhI

>>18472875
holy fuck you're retarded

>>18476740
>yahoo finance
The fed is still and will always be in control

>>18471609
Wake up read the news
The Fed has bought $2 trillion of bonds (assets +debt instruments) in the last month alone .
As they have monetized these the bulk of the cash the sellers received has gone into stock markets as no one wants to hold the soon to be worthless paper dollars
It’s pretty easy to grasp if you just research a bit anon.

Hiw do I short

>>18477151

>>18473209
As real as your gf

>>18474442
>>18474720

Alright, now this makes some sense

>>18471609
It's all Deutsche Bank doing one last big gamble, before they collapse.

>>18472676
dollar also goes mostly up against Euro and CHF. I guess because people who sell stocks are now holding tons of cash. It's really clown economy, it can't be real.

>>18478649
Totally clowned. Socialism for the rich in it’s most jewtard form

>>18478649
Nah, because non us govt debt are mostly dollar denominated.

>>18472813
Japan.
Japan is what happens. Look at their stock market which is largely owned by their government since the early 90s. Absolutely shite.

>>18479336

How did the Japanese deflation affects their stock market even today ? Where can I read more on it ?