/biz/ - Business & Finance

>communism
>making money
>making money in a system DESIGNED TO PREVENT ANY UPWARDS MOVEMENT
You belong in the ground tranny faggot

The only difference between this pyramid and and communist pyramid is that it's flatter. You have peasants, the soldiers, and the rich fat government.

>>18412092
Capitalism sets free the biggest forces in human nature: Greed and striving for higher social status. This guarantees the best allocation of capital and the highest productivity and competitiveness. That's why this system will always win in competition with communism or sth else. That said it's not necessarily the best system appropriate to the human species.

>>18412130
Money doesn't matter that much when your basic needs like housing and food are already fulfilled. If I had enough money to buy a house and have food I wouldn't really care about making money anymore, but that's impossible in capitalism because the system is designed to keep you borrowing and paying for the rest of your life.

>>18412146

It doesn't always guarantee it but it is a much better facilitator of it than communism.

>>18412092
The thing is, neither capitalism nor communism is better. The best would be a mix and balance of ideas from both. But that would require people to let go of dogma and not be so stubborn.

>>18412146
It also guarantees that you have to keep working harder and harder just to afford the basic essentials of life, even as you get older and become slower and less capable. Capitalism is like regressing back to the days of cavemen.

>>18412208
Pure capitalism does guarantee that. Fed intervention, unlimited QE and zero interest rates is not capitalism, it's financial socialism which indeed prevents optimal allocation.

>>18412248
Always true for large parts of the population in a capitalist country

>>18412228
>The best would be a mix and balance of ideas from both. But that would require people to let go of dogma and not be so stubborn.
"We never really tried communism"
Kys glowie

>>18412303
So how is it not a shitty system then when it only hurts the vast majority of the population?

>>18412315
Where did i say that it's a great system?

>>18412291


Pure capitalism doesn't exist because human beings are flawed. Same thing goes for Communism. The idea in your head is perfect but reality gets in the way of all things.

>>18412146
* * I D E O L O G Y I N T E N S I F I E S * *

For the longest time the hierarchy of man living under the papacy, under god, was described as being the best way for man to live aligned with their nature.
Look how that turned out.

>>18412326
Probably true. The basic idea of socialism is flawless and good but it's impossible to put into action people always tend towards social hierarchies. You can put everyone ob the same level, but deep inside every person strives for status.

>>18412092
>everyone was guaranteed a job and a place to live

The problem is when you give the government the power to determine your place, they're in a position to take advantage of you. And once they take that power, there is not much you can do to turn it around, besides duck your head and work.
There is more nationalist sentimentality because everyone is in it together, but you might not necessarily be one of the ones who gets to makes it.

In a capitalist environment its every man for himself. You determine your own fate, and you work around regulation and bureaucratic red tape make it happen. The bureaucracy doesn't define you. More risk vs reward for the common man. The ones who strives to be the most successful and acts the smartest in their pursuit is well rewarded. The problem is that you need capital to make it, and you can be bogged down by whatever is currently happening (high cost of education, debt, shitty jobs, etc). But that is itself a consequence of capitalism as well. its a collection of decisions made by other individuals, and they just kinda all lined up to do the most fucking. But savagery in a nation drives strong competition which expedites technological progression and, while things suck, Americans have a really tame version of what suck in america is like compared to other countries.

A capitalist environment will correct itself, eventually. It's all cyclical in the end, anyways.

The most important thing to remember, though, and its something that is very apparent in other countries like China, India, etc,
is that you are ALWAYS competing. And if you forget that, you will be left behind.
We're the ones who will determine the future, and if you bog yourself down with the suck of today you wont fight for a better tomorrow.
Throwing your hands up and wanting to change an entire economic system to make things easier for yourself and those around you is lazy and will fuck us all in the long run.

Take the bad in your life and learn from it, so you can be more vicious than the competition.

>>18412435
>he thinks capitalism is cyclical
>he doesnt know that it eventually shakes itself apart
>he didn't read any of the essential literature

It either turns into communism, or it reverts to oligopoly.
There are no other possible win states.

>>18412390
I didn't say capitalism is good for us. However i doubt that medieval / stone age societies you mention were a better system for people.

>>18412248
>It also guarantees that you have to keep working harder and harder just to afford the basic essentials of life, even as you get older and become slower and less capable.

actually believing this

being "poor" in a capitalist nation is like being in a country club anywhere else.

In a capitalist system, poor people get generic bread.

In a socialist system, everyone gets generic bread.

In a communist system, nobody gets any bread at all.

communism guarantees every citizen a job and housing. meanwhile capitalism makes zero guarantees of anything, except some kind of amorphous, ephemeral "promise" that if you figure out some way to scam the system, you can acquire a lot of wealth (which will still be taxed a lot of course). fuck this gay crap.

>>18412495
>biggest forces in human nature:
>This guarantees the best allocation of capital and the highest productivity
>why this system will always win
Don't fucking mince your words with deliberation and pussy footing.
You used superlatives. stand behind them, dipshit.

>>18412511
Yes, alright, sounds great. But didn't work so far. Or do you have some country in mind where your assumptions of socialism / communism are reality?

>>18412146
>the best allocation of capital
meanwhile
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/us/coronavirus-philadelphia-hahnemann-hospital.html

>>18412516
Your lack of text understanding is not my problem. Maybe read my last sentence again where i said it's not necessarily the appropriate system for human species.

>>18412179
don't forget that a lot of people on /biz/ only care about making it rich on the stock market by some lucky trade, bragging the day afterwards that they used their great intellect and that they are worthy of all the change they pocketed, then blowing all their cash by snorting coke from some hooker's ass in thailand, and then dying by their 50s
communism doesn't offer this, so they will shit on it

>Why is it so hard to make money under capitalism?

Its not, you are just fucking stupid and the only thing you're good at is trading your time for money by being a wage cuck.

You have literally every resource to make money.

You have a telephone / internet / education / arguably more funds than 50% of the world.

Yet you go on here to shitpost.

Capitalism isnt the problem

YOU are the problem

>>18412539
>Waaa waaa, I need to see it happening otherwise I won't believe it can happen.
You're like a peasant advocating for the kings wealth because greece tried democracy once and it failed.
No one else has tried it since then, so it must be a metaphysical impossibility.

Like honestly, take a step back and look at your ideas and arguments for a second. Realize you're making assumptions about the world based off a world you were born into.
You're a case study for Plato's allegory of the cave.

>>18412585
Yeah, you choad, hedging your proclamations just shows how much of insecure cuck you are.
I'll take you at the majority of what you said, and the intended point of what you wrote.
Like I said, don't mince your words, just to hedge some tiny safe space "gotcha" argument.

In a capitalist environment you wouldnt have been barricaded into your house for an indeterminate amount of time,
after government approved wet markets lead to a global pandemic,
been disappeared for notifying the public or embarrassing the "People's" regime,
and then have meat rations delivered to you by garbage truck.

>>18412092
Lmao it’s fucking viciously competitive in communist countries. To a Chinese degree

>>18412228
Communism is for brainlets. It is pretty much all the bad aspects of capitalism

>>18412659
Well there are lots of countries on earth where lots of people tried different systems and you can't name one / even one out of history? Than maybe your idea doesn't work out the way you think.

Again, i said it's the superior system in competing with other systems and also allocating capital not for the people in it. If you still don't get it than using reference to greek philosophers will not make you look more intelligent

>>18412744
>thinks i was trying to look intelligent
>on an anonymous image board
welp, that's it folks, that's a wrap.

>>18412092
>not having rich parents
Lol poorfags pls. know your place. shalom

>>18412092
Oh come on man, how many times we have to argue about this shit
>under socialism: you have to shut the fuck up and work for the state, othetwise prison and no food for you.
>under capitalism: you have to shut the fuck up and work, otherwise you get fired so no food for you.
Do you really think this world will spare you if you choose one system respect to the other?
>hurr durr at least i'm trying to improve things
You're just changing exploiter

>>18412717
My grandpa used to work in the tech industry a while back after leaving Angola after the Carnation Revolution and Angolan Civil War, and he says almost all his coworkers were Chinese.

He asked them why they were all so goddamn smart, and he says his coworkers said that wasn't the case back home. Only the real big brain ones were allowed to leave for work to other countries. They also had to swear to bring back technology and the things they learn back to China.

Its the case with Indian I-94's, too. Not that I think they are expected to do it from the Indian government, but we give them a limited timespan to work in our country, and then the go home and have an opportunity to uplift they're home.
It's insanely competitive out their and Americans are complacent because we think we've just perpetually made it, even when we dont apply ourselves.

My grandma who was an immigrant from Portugal asked her coworker who was earning less than her and was doing less work why she was okay with earning less than someone fresh off the boat, and she replied that "I dont have to work hard, I'm American".

We unironically are ngmi if this coronavirus thing doesnt lead us all to put on our big boy pants and actually make America a superpower instead of just assuming we're one.

>>18412130
>a system DESIGNED TO PREVENT ANY UPWARDS MOVEMENT
AKA
>A system that maxes out the literacy rate of its citizens and provides public education up to higher education
>Provides public healthcare, a place to live, and a right to a job
>Has the highest levels of upward mobility as a result with peasants becoming Cosmonauts
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed huh

>>18412307
>Thinks glowies shill for Communism

>>18413062
>had to wait 7 to 10 years to buy a car in the USSR
wtf I love communism

>>18412179
>Money doesn't matter that much when your basic needs like housing and food are already fulfilled.
you gotta be fucking kidding me

>>18413062
Name a country where the conditions you mentioned exist. Your reference to cosmonauts shows you were thinking of russia?

>>18412659
>communism
>tried just once
You shittin me nigga? It's been tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly. At a certain point it's not the fear of trying so much as knowing generally what will happen and not wanting to get burned again. Your Plato's cave comparison is so pants on head retarded I genuinely can't believe it. Go apologize to your parents for not being stillborn.

>>18413106
>USSR was able to build cars while simultaneously building a military to fend the rest of the world off
Based
>>18413319
The sciences and maths flourished. Same with the arts.
>>18413365
>It's been tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly.
And it's been tried and succeeded. Besides, correlation =/= causation. It's the most advanced system so it will take more effort to get there.

>>18413537

>Capitalism pumps out cars which organically depreciate in the market, making them readily available of anyone of all walks of life to purchase.
>Free market allows flexibility of vehicle purchase for anyone of any walk of life. financing options make transportation readily available.
>You can buy Rolls Royce's and high end vehicles for fractions of the original cost later down the line, meaning anyone has an opportunity to high quality luxuries without the prohibitive prices.

>anon thinks waiting 10 years to get this is better.

How long are those reaching arms of yours?

>>18412092
i see the chinese communist psyop shills are at work again

>>18412179
"welcome to your new home, anon"

>>18414059
Is rather own an apartment there than pay rent to some kike for the rest of my life.

okay before i go to sleep i'll just type and leave this here for all these overthinking pocket philisophers that seem to replicate at an exponential rate lately:
communism is the biggest piece of shit of a society that could ever exist. this is because while the concept itself sounds the most humane and forward thinking, just even, the people who have to run it will always be tempted and fuck it up at some point by becoming corrupted. so if humans run it, there will be people who live just like the 1% today, while these people preach to you that you should be happy and settle with your vw buggy and eat your potatoes while they eat steak and drink 200 year old wines in their tesla. personal progression will have a (very) low cap, and if you want more your neighbours will throw you up to the government inspired by pure envy. it would feel like a fucking swamp you can't climb out of, ever, that slowly suffocates you in its shallow, pointless mediocrity.

>>18412729
>several entities control everything in a """Capitalistic""" system (which is almost exactly corporatism in the sense that certain companies are the organisms of the state)
>We should remedy this by means of absolute monopoly

>>18412092
>Why is it so hard to make money under capitalism?
You're poor because you're an idiot, op. I made 5k on the stock market last week, which amounted to a 10% return on my investment capital. My neet ass did it with hardly any work: Just chilling in my room.

>>18412228
>The thing is, neither capitalism nor communism is better.
lol Capitalism is vastly superior to your socialist bs.

>>18413062
Hmm. In your communist utopia, people relied on government rations and lived in massive bloc hives with no potential for upwards mobility. Under capitalism, there is opportunity for upwards mobility. What good is 'literacy' if you are a slave, and your technology still lags behind the west? During the cold war, military science was far ahead of the Soviet bloc because the latter relied on mass-produced, cheaply built mechanized infantry. The west developed IR, night vision, laser guidance systems, stealth aircraft, TOW missiles, etc, way before the Soviet bloc.

If the USSR was a scientific utopia, why were they behind in a conventional military sense? Oh, right, because they weren't, and their combat doctrine relied on "send 100,000 comrades against their lines and hope we drown them in corpses"
There's a reason people want to give you free helicopter rides Ivan. You are a do-nothing layabout who expects the whole of human society to toil for you. You would rather have everyone else be a poor slave along with you than suffer the sight of a few crabs escaping the pot out of their own ingenuity. The entire reason you are connected to the internet with a cheap consumer electronic device is literally because of capitalism. You are scum, and you will be resisted until the last.

>>18413094
>feds aren't leftist
Yeah, you leftypol retards manage to be wrong about everything, always.

>>18414119
I'm sure when you're living in your state-mandated shitbox you'd be singing the same tune.
"Oh no, I'm responsible for securing my own wealth and well-being"
what a tragedy.

>>18414237
>Sure they might have tried to overthrow every fledgling Socialist country there is but actually they are Communists

>>18414059
>Managed to build a comfy, heated apartment building with running water in the middle of the tundra
Based

>>18412146
>That's why this system will always win in competition with communism or sth else.
You shouldn't use the word always so lightly.

>>18414324
China is winning right now because America's current wealth relies on modern slavery. We let all our manufacturing and industry go to China because the American consumer determined Cheaper is Better and the manufacturers liked the increase in profit margins.

The only way this could have been prevented was if the Government took massive steps to throttle trade from the most populated country on the planet. We tried it with an embargo on Cuba, and they just kept on trucking. So now we went from fighting communism to being one of its biggest customers, and now the plantation owner has all the power.

We've seen what its like over there, but we kept buying. Thats how Capitalism works.
If America was in a vacuum chamber and Capitalism was the only thing available we wouldn't be relying on the output of countries with worse ethics. It's parasitic, and it'll flip with time.

>>18414229
>That image
Low IQ /pol/ racist, this should be fun
>people relied on government rations
Well they ate more than Americans as admitted by the CIA, so if it works right
>lived in massive bloc hives
I think that's called a city anon
>with no potential for upwards mobility
Peasants became scientists, mathematicians, doctors, and engineers and were encouraged to do so.
>Under capitalism, there is opportunity for upwards mobility.
In your theory maybe, but in practice capital tends to accumulate in fewer hands
>What good is 'literacy' if you are a slave
Define "slave"
>and your technology still lags behind the west?
Bruh the USSR was spanking the US in the Cold War before the moon landings
>military science was far ahead of the Soviet bloc
Not really
>their combat doctrine relied on "send 100,000 comrades against their lines and hope we drown them in corpses"
Stop watching hollywood film. They developed the groundwork for modern military theory, look up deep battle.
>There's a reason people want to give you free helicopter rides Ivan.
Nobody besides cringelord /pol/yps think this
>You are a do-nothing layabout[...]few crabs[...]ingenuity.
So many words, such little understanding of opposing views
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
>The entire reason you are connected to the internet with a cheap consumer electronic device is literally because of capitalism.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/OGAS
>You are scum, and you will be resisted until the last.
Let go of the anger anon. It is not healthy. It is clouding your mind, and your ability to imagine and look forward

>>18412092
>Why is it so hard to make money under capitalism?

because you're dumb as fuck. you're OP screams loser mindset.

>>18412208

pretty much