/biz/ - Business & Finance

Name 5 funds that outpaced indices in the last 10 years.

>Name 5 funds that outpaced indices in the last 10 years

>Time in market beats timing the market!

>>18208175

Can you show me the millions you've made from actively trading? Or are you just another dunning-kruger that thinks they can beat the market?

>Can you show me the millions you've made from actively trading? Or are you just another dunning-kruger that thinks they can beat the market?

>>18208204
>>18208224
>>18208250
>>18208269
>>18208298
>>18208175
kill all niggers!!! ha i said it

Cope

VTI >

>>18208323
Based

>Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund

Is Vanguard actually a meme? I'm trying to get into investing now that I have tons of free time.

>Three words: Dollar Cost Averaging

>>18209751
it does its job fine if you're the demographic who can't be assed to think about your investments and you just want an index to dump money into

>>18208175
>SPY puts

>>18209820

Can a Vanguard ever collapse, go broke, or otherwise fail in a way where you would lose everything? Or is it completely bulletproof?

>>18209926
It depends on what it follows, SPY for example would collapse if the whole stock market collapses

>>18209986

What Im asking is, if I decide on a Vanguard as my long term investment, is it still going to be there in 40 years? Or am I potentially giving money to a fund that might close up shop and declare bankruptcy at some point, losing me my lifes savings?

>>18208175
I'm putting 15k I have in savings into VOO to sit on for the long term once it dips below 200

>>18210032
Your Vanguard fund can go bankrupt just like any other. But they have a relatively good reputation.

>>18210032

A lot of these companies are insured. Your money isn't with the actual company but that fund, which is comprised of real stock that doesn't correlate to your brokerage. So if Vanguard the brokerage went kaput that wouldn't necessarily mean their stock traded funds disappear, they don't use those as personal capital.

>>18209751
It's pointless to use Vanguard. They used to have the cheapest expense ratios but now others have matched or exceeded them. As a broker, they offer very little functionality and have a confusing boomer interface. The only thing more retarded is Robinhood. Get a big boy broker like Schwab, Fidelity, TDA, or IBKR. Merrill Edge is fine if you do your banking with BoA.

>>18210154
>>18210170

Thanks brehs

Looks like I'm going for
>time in the market vs timing the market
>soijak.jpg

>>18210214

Just go with Fidelity/ETrade/Schwab/TDAmeritrade

>>18208224
>TIME IN DE MARKUD BEATS TIMING DE MARKUD

>>18208269
>CaANNN U shOW Me TraADninG BillIONs I dONT have A PosItion MYselF so You MusT haVE oneEEEEEE

>>18210314
It does

>>18210356
>IIIIIIT DOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

>BTC still 80% crashed

>>18210336
>What is NIkkei

>>18210374
What if you bought at ~2k?

>>18210435
yes ?

thanks for showing my point

>>18210444
That i'm still up 220%?

>>18208175
>>18208224
Retard, you'll never be anything but a poorfag wagie

Index funds are evil and morally bankrupt.

>>18210588

How so?

>>18210170
VOO has a .03% expense ratio, name one market index that is cheaper than that

>>18210518
no that picking to arbitrary dates can prove both theories

Im investing each month a bit of my paycheck into ETFs for retirement.
Am i a soiboy now?

Also another question:
So far i had a collection of shitcoins to gamble my money away. But i want to leave crypto because its shit and go more into stonks. Should i just buy individual stonks based on value investing or should i yolo my money on calls/puts? What can u recommend my dudes

>>18208175

At least it has an actual usecase. Not like your goddamn cryptos still hanging around in the "nerd" scene.
Besides of Monero there is not a single coin out there which has an actual use case.
Fuck off cryptofags

>>18210735
No, the era of big gains from investing are practically over. All the eggheads over at Berkshire Hathway have trouble outpacing the S&P, you think some asshole from 4chan reading trading forums will do better? The only way hedge funds make money now is from admin fees.

Warren even bet a billion dollars no hedge fund would outperform the S&P 500 for 10 years. He won.
http://longbets.org/362/

If you are not getting money from people to invest for them, you can't beat a S&P or Nasdaq market index etf.

>>18208204

TQQQ

>>18210624
Because you're just buying some package of stocks without any regard to price of the underlying stocks, just on the hope that "stocks always go up" and you can dump your bags on some poor, unsuspecting schmuck later on. That's not investing. That's speculation. It is also taking actual ownership of companies away from main street investors and concentrating ownership in the hands of Wall St. fat cats and fund managers.

>>18208204

Literally hundreds... Are you retarded?

Investing in literal mediocrity like market indices is the financial equivalent to getting off on Black bulls fucking your wife.

Indexes and ETFs are for people who can’t manage more than 10 stocks.

>>18211304
Pretty much this. People rely WAY too much on what is ultimately one single tool in the portfolio construction toolbox and they don't even use it for the most efficient aspect of it: hedging. Because "woah you can lose infinite money on a short!" That's how brainwashed these people are. They can't even process the concept of a stop loss, managing position size, or trading around an open position.

Not to mention Vanguard are a bunch of scoundrels that have just mastered the marketing and propaganda game...Market is going up??? Perfect time to buy, look at all that strength! Send us your money, don't touch it, don't ask questions, and NEVER pull it from our funds because then you're a bad investor! Market is going down??? Perfect time to buy, everything is on sale! Send us your money, don't touch it, etc. etc. etc. Dollar cost average! Send us more money!

>>18211304

Most ETFcucks have never seen a 10K in their lives and generally don't even know what they're holding or how it works except "it goes up".

The average ETF investor is literally the lowest IQ investor, I have more respect for morons who buy penny stocks.

>>18211273
That's a man.

>>18211487
Wow I really want to cum inside him then haha

>>18211487
>>18211503

Coomers, pls..

>not making at least 10% of your net worth PER DAY
never gonna make it

>>18210932
So should i just try my luck with options instead of investing in individual stonks?

>>18211570
You do both.

>thinking you can see value in a stock that billion dollar funds and complex trading algorithms missed.

>>18211559
Exactly. If you're not doubling your money every week, you'll never have enough money to even retire, much less live a good life.

>>18211587
What about ETFs

>>18208250
this is a funny meme

i sold everything when i first heard about corona and avoided the whole drop

i hope others did the same

>>18211730
Make them like %10-20 of your portfolio. They have their purpose. I keep my dry powder in bond ETFs.

>>18211767
did the same. im still in cash. right now i regret that i didnt buy back in last week tho.

>>18211770
Alright thanks.
Do you outperform the market with your portfolio? If yes, by how much?

>>18210154
>>18210032
This. A portion of the money you are going to be investing there is ensured but i think its something like 100k (youll have to check on that yourself) but dont even try to think "what if i end up having more than that in 40 years" because you wont.

>>18211002
> Index funds are speculation
Nice try schlomo.

>>18211445
post portfolio poorfag

e he he he..priced IN

>>18208742
I'm honestly crying from laughter

>>18210685
I can buy VOO in a Fidelity account tripleniggerfaggot

>>18208204
I have yet to find an ETF that makes me like $60/day whereas I can usually accomplish that just scalping SPY.

>>18208269
>dunning-kruger
Reddit maymays

>>18210735
>Im investing each month a bit of my paycheck into ETFs for retirement.
Enjoy your toilet paper soon. This doesn't hedge you against black Swans events like the one today.
Pull your money out as soon as you can.

>ISHARES CORE SP500 IVV

>>18210685
SWPPX is 0.02. SCHB is 0.03 if you really need an ETF. Vancucks are cancer and need to go back to r*ddit

>>18213262
>PROSHARES TRUST SHORT S&P 500 NEW (POST REV SPLIT)

>>18213343
literally a suicide button

>>18210402
You're such a fucking weeabo kys then have sex pls

>>18209771
kek

>>18210356
source

>>18208250

it does though

>>18213980
All that tells me is to buy after big dips and crashes for the biggest gains

>>18211767
Had nothing in the market. Bought everything last week

>>18213994
>buy low
It's so crazy it just might work!

>>18213994
you don't know when the market will recover, dumbass
if it were so easy to buy low and sell high, don't you think everyone would be doing it?

>>18213994
Explain how you know when the market has reached the bottom.

>>18214741
You bet that it's always going to continue increasing almost surely in t=infinity.
There's a reason why stocks are modelled with geometric stochastic processes.
So, every dip is essentially a free discount, you just need to be patient enough. If it drops further, you buy again, another discount. This for the SP500, of course.

This thread is full of poorfag retards who think putting your money in an ETF like Vanguard is a bad idea. Honestly, if you think it's so shit, why don't you come up with something better for the long run? Say I have a 40 year career from my 20s to my 60s. Where should I put my money if not a Vanguard 100% equities account?

>>18215576
As I thought, nobody says anything. Fucking LARPers

>>18215702
The thing is, with a 40 year time span you can put money in almost anything legitimate and achieve great ROI.

>>18215576
Facebook
Apple
Amazon
Google

FAAG

>>18215780
All that shit is included in my Vanguard S&P 500 portfolio, it's like you've never even looked at the thing you are shitting on

>>18215865
You fucking retard, thats the point. Anyone who buys ETFs, Mutual Funds or Index Funds is a baby retard unworthy of stocks. If you're too stupid to research and manage your own stocks than you shouldn't be buying them. Enjoy all your gains getting sucked up by fund managers brainlet.

>>18215899
>Vanguard never charges more than 0.40%
>Average S&P 500 gains are 7% a year
>Gains being sucked by fund managers
It's like you don't even try

>>18215780

>Facebook

>>18215780
Look at Peter Lynch here.

>>18215939
>7%

Buddy, you could’ve just picked FANG stocks and made 100%+ in a year lmao

>>18215995
Did you forget the part where I talked about a 40 YEAR CAREER PERIOD? I'm talking LONG term.
By the way, nice dodge right there where I pointed out that the gains are much greater than fund manager fees, you just ignore that inconvenience

>>18215576
>Where should I put my money if not a Vanguard 100% equities account?
An account that includes 15-20% as a bond fund

>>18216061

If you're willing to be a little more aggressive in your first 15 years or so of investing (which could cut your timeline to retirement dramatically), consider dumping your money into SSO, the 2x leveraged version of SPY. Even considering market dumps it outperforms long term. Once you're up to a certain amount you could switch it over to stable funds.

>>18216068
US Bond rates are like 1% you'd be a schmuck to own them more than 10 years from retirement.

>>18216090
>consider dumping your money into SSO, the 2x leveraged version of SPY.
Where can I read more about this? Do you have links for further reading?

>>18216130

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/sso?ltr=1

The basic gist of it is that it's leveraged, so it's a mixture of stock and options rebalanced daily that are intended to return 2x whatever SPY does any given day (as well as lose the same amount). It's considered highly risky for people who need the money at X time, but if you've got a time frame of 20 years you will almost certainly emerge up more than if not.

It's not recommended by most conventional investors due to the volatility but research has shown that it might be the best approach for younger investors with time and income to spare, to start off.

>>18216174
>>18216130

Also even with this big dump, if you'd invested $10k in SPY 10 years ago you'd have $13k, while you'd have $16k in SSO. The drops are scary but they're part and parcel of the fund nature.

>>18216123
>2015
>I wouldn't hold bonds in a rising interest rate environment
>2020
>I wouldn't hold bonds in a rising interest rate environment

>>18215780
just get a tech sector etf

>>18216220
Why limit to one sector though? With an S&P fund you get exposure to every sector including tech.

>>18216130
read the prospectus or at least google etf decay before dumping your money into a leveraged etf

>>18216123
don't most financial planners recommend you have bonds equal to your age? So if you're 30yo your portfolio should be 30% bonds?

>>18216206
>Lets buy US bonds for the next 10-30 years immediately after the longest bond bull in history and the largest spending increase in history.

>>18216316

Muh decay is kind of a meme. It only impacts the long term ROI if you have a flat market forever which... never happens. Lmao. You can see the returns yourself, the expenses are factored into the price.

>>18216322
Yeah and back when you could get a decent coupon on them that would make sense. Now you're looking at a negative real return on US bonds. Bonds are for safety and you don't need safety until you are about a decade away from retirement. At best, your age divided by 4 in bonds going forward is the new rule.

>>18208204
SQQQ

I invest exclusively by DCAing into a Vanguard target date retirement fund. Stay mad fags.

>>18216364
What is your opinion on intermediate term munis? Intermediate term bonds seem like a sweet spot, more yield than a short term and less interest rate fluctuation than a long term.

>>18216174
So basically I can expect twice the gains of the S&P 500 if I stretch it out over a long enough time period? That sounds too good to be true.
I'm doing some googling and a lot of people say that leveraged ETFs are bad for buy-and-hold, why is that?

>>18210170
I'm really just looking for an interface that lets me shift funds between a few etfs for bear/bull cycles. It's not that hard to sell after huge rallies and buy during nosedives. Any suggestions. Vanguard has shit for bears and I'd rather nkt be locked into RH

>>18216548
They aren't as safe as US Federal Gov. bonds since they can declare bankruptcy and not print their way out of debt like the feds. So use a diversified fund/ETF if you wanna go that route.

>>18216334
>lets attempt to time the market

>>18208204
>the last 10 years
>fed inflated asset bubble at 0% interest

>>18208175
I dumped all my ETF's for PNK at $0.009. Comfy as fuck.

“Safe” investors are low-test faggots with no dreams.

>let me sacrifice my youth so I can retire when I’m 63 rather than 65

Lmao, if you’re not trying to get rich as fast as possible by making life-changing amounts of money in your 20’s, chances are your index finger is longer than your ring finger.

>>18216672
>This looks like a great time to buy bonds!

>>18216723
And how are you supposed to make it big in your 20s? By betting it all on cryptocurrency? Penny stocks?

QQQ or just buy leaps

>>18216347
>empirically proven
>meme

For anyone disputing the long-term value of DCAing into indexes

https://dqydj.com/scripts/spcalc/sp_500_reinvester.html

>>18216755
Tiny Classified Ads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mubCkCAEiDQ

>>18213980
>9.8% cagr
lmao

>>18216364
when John Bogle invested for his grandkids, he put it all into a balanced index fund (60% stocks, 40% bonds). I don't know how old his grandkids are but it seens bonds make sense even for younger people

>>18215576
R*ddit the post (answer is PSLDX btw)

>>18216723
You are childish, not manly.

>>18215576
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2020&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=100000&annualOperation=0&annualAdjustment=0&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=4&rebalanceType=3&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&showYield=false&reinvestDividends=true&benchmarkSymbol=VTSAX&portfolioNames=true&portfolioName1=retire+in+5+years+chad&portfolioName2=virgin+r*ddit+vanguard+fund&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=SPXL&allocation1_1=40&symbol2=TMF&allocation2_1=60&symbol3=VTSAX&allocation3_2=100

Etf's are useful if you're about to retire,better than having your money sit around doing nothing and getting burned by inflation.
Doesnt matter how many basedjacks some butthurt freak posts,facts dont care about your meme pictures and greentexts.
Now the absolute dumbest "investors" are cryptocucks,everybody knows sniffing glue and dreaming of some useless token randomly mooning is the equivalent of buying scratch tickets,lmao. A little smarter are options traders but only because the few with insider info pull the entire herd IQ upwards.
Above these losers theres idiots that invest via the classic shekelstein bank,these "financial advisors" are underperforming everything and want to get paid for it on top.
Above that are etf's and above those are actual human being that arent niggers,aka people that can research companies and invest in quality.

>>18216887

>>18216593
Huge drawdowns when volatility spikes. Do you have the willpower to watch 60%of your portfolio get wiped out in 2 days? Most people will start panic selling.

>>18216826
>8.3% cagr over a 10 year bull run
L M A O

>>18216940
Cope.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2020&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=100000&annualOperation=0&annualAdjustment=0&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=4&rebalanceType=3&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&showYield=false&reinvestDividends=true&benchmarkSymbol=VTSAX&portfolioNames=true&portfolioName1=retire+in+5+years+chad&portfolioName2=virgin+r*ddit+vanguard+fund&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=SPY&allocation1_1=150&symbol2=TLT&allocation2_1=150&symbol3=VTSAX&allocation3_2=100&symbol4=CASHX&allocation4_1=-200

>only hold ETFs
>made like 30% the past two years
>only -5% this year

Lmao.

>>18217080
You could’ve bought any blue chip stock and doubled your money in the past 2 years.

That’s what you ETFaggots don’t understand. You’re happy with 30% when you could’ve bought Amazon or Apple instead.

>>18217112
They'd rather dilute returns by bagholding shit like CSCO and other do nothing stocks in the index in the name of diversification

>>18217112
when you pick a single stock it can 10x, but it can also go to 0
it's easy to say what you could have won after it already happened
you don't know the future, retard

>>18217149
Did you really fucking expect Amazon or Apple to go to 0? How retarded are you?

Literally any blue chip stock. Name 1.

Microsoft
Google
McDonald’s
Walmart
Coke

You could’ve picked any of these and more than doubled your money.

Instead you choose to minimize your gains in a bull run by buying a fucking ETF that draws its value from these companies and its losses from shitters that actually do have potential to go broke.

>>18217112
Yeah, let me just dump my money into a single or handful of stocks in the hopes that they have no serious issues like CEO sexual harassment, getting sued out the ass in EU, lose favor in Chinese government, etc. even the best companies on paper have serious risks floating around the back room that you won’t see until it bites you in the ass.

If I had such powers of foresight to pick winners, I’d just buy buttcoin low and sell high every week and 100x my money.

Also you do realize ETFs are more specialized that just SPY right?

>>18210999

BASED AND CHECKED. Fuck first post nigger

>>18217200
I’m pretty sure only Amazon and Google on your list come even close to doubling your money in the last several years. Coke and Walmart are the shitters you are crying about.

>>18216746
about as good as any of a time since as long as the credit market has existed, with the exception of a couple decades?

>>18217239
MSFT mogs that entire list. Based boomertech

>>18217206
That’s exactly what I mean. You have no balls. You’re a 20-something male. You should be focused on making as much money as possible right now. Instead you worry about black swans and improbable events, so you clammer to a fucking ETF for 10% annualized rather than trying to double your money in the longest bull run in human history.

>>18217239
Go check the last two years retard. Every blue chip stock went up in value. You absolutely missed out on life changing money by playing it safe with your “safe” investment.

Not to mention ETFs were taken out same as any stock during March.

>>18217200
>Literally any blue chip stock. Name 1.
I can name Fifty

Imagine only making a measly sub 400% cagr with your hard earned money...

Roflma

>>18217326
Alright man, be sure to drop an instagram link when you hit it big. But your lack of reading comprehension might harm you there. “10%” is not 30% and “went up in value” is not doubling our money. Also, the only people whom doubling their savings would be life changing are not in their 20s unless they are trust fund kids.

Ironic talking about not worrying about improbable events when a freak pandemic is decimating the economy.

>>18217357
Good job. What happened in December?

>>18217408
Sold out lol.

Index funds should be fucking illegal. You should have to put your money in just a few stocks. Otherwise it's like cheating.

>>18217057

can someone make me the zano / ogn / link ETF ?

>>18216068
Efficient frontier is a good starting point but it is far from perfect. I don't consider it good enough for use for my investments, I have made some heavy modifications.
The reason's why it fails:
>returns aren't normally distributed, so return standard deviation isn't the metric of choice
>price volatility upwards is good, downwards is bad, yet standard deviation values them equally
>past returns don't predict future returns
>past correlation doesn't always predict future correlation
>past volatility only predicts future volatility in the short term

>>18210932
You have to be irrational to outperform the index in todays markets, because in order to have a higher return than the index, you need to either take more risk (which is ridiculous given how overpriced equities are) or you have to be against the crowd (which will lead to underperformance in the short term because you aren't buying all the overpriced shit everyone else is). Classic example of the latter is Berkshire.

>>18211412
>They can't even process the concept of a stop loss

Stop losses are a meme. This latest crash sent one of my stocks straight though the stop loss and automatically sold the bottom. I would have been better off just holding.

>>18212971
Nice brainlet meme haven’t seen this one

>>18210735

>>18208175
Cope

>>18208175
>>18208204
>>18208224
samefag

It seems like everything on Vanguard has a $3k+ minimum. Is there anyway to just get in with less? I'm thinking about just getting into global stocks and global bonds then chilling.

>>18219222
Vanguard Admiral Shares funds have a minimum initial purchase amount of $3,000 which offer lower expense ratios from the regular funds but if you don't have that money, it's not the end of the world if you start investing in their regular funds without that amount. And you can convert your regular shares later into Admiral Shares once you hit the $3k mark.

>>18219363
You can't do it, green nigger

>>18219441
aww is leddit triggered? never heard someone say the nigger word before?

>>18219574
back to /pol/, tranny

>>18219363
now now dont bully us vinyl collectors

its over

>>18217200
All of the original Dow 30 no longer exist.

>>18217589
It's not cheating. You just don't know how to play the game.

>>18210336
>>18210314
>>18209771
>>18208742
>>18208742
>>18208298
>>18208224
>>18208175
Probably the most autistic thread I've seen here

What is this shit? ETFs? That shit is dead. Get some ZANO or OGN instead and you're going to make it.

>>18210374
> >BTC still 80% crashed
It did not. It rose 3x. It also had a blip on the chart where you had a short opportunity to be rich if you sold. If you want to object ”what if you bought at that ath time...” then I would point out that FOMO going all in during a bull run is not what is meant by ”time in the market” but rather an example of how much trying to time the market can cost you.

>>18216815
>he uses geometric brownian motion
>he writes the stochastic integral as sigma^2 ds

>crypto

>>18220428
i bought at $19 after hours earlier and im going to pick some more up first thing in the morning. its going to 23+ end of day im sure

i certainly am

>>18210170
Why is Robinhood retarded?