/biz/ - Business & Finance

David is right, Trump is a sociopath.

Also, his daughter converted to judaism.

Mutts are slaves, really.

>>18115165
yeah lets just go back to the middle ages, at least we wont get the coronameme right?

Translation
>thanks for the bailout trillions retards
>get back to work

>>18115208
What does that even mean you stupid bootlicking nigger

>>18115165
Who?

Can't have an economy if everyone is dead

>>18115269
some fates are worse than death

>>18115165
Yeah I don't care if you die faggoot jjust pump my BAgs

>opinion
>get massively demonized
>democratie
What a fucking clown world

>>18115269
>>18115165
think about the quality of life in a global economic collapse... no one wants to think about that because it means condemning millions to death.

but we're at the ultimate crossroads in a big natural cycle: overinflated markets overdue for a correction and an evolutionary culling. Which would you choose?

>>18115269
Can't have a healthcare system if everyone is broke.

> print many trillions of $ to bail out richfags
> cancel $1B deal of locally made ventilator
USA /numero uno/

>>18115472
cuba is beyond broke and has one
fyi people there live longer than on average than in the US

>>18115493
People often cancel unneeded orders in times of economic crisis. New York city is dawn of the dead right now, according to NYT, and by the NYT own admission, despite overflowing hospitals, most of the ventilators are sitting there unused.

GG NO RE

>>18115193
>wsj editorial board
>Drumpf is responsible for this.

Youre mentally ill. Seek help.

>>18115208
>yeah lets just go back to the middle ages

>conjure up TRILLIONS to bail out richfags
>'ok now wagies back to work, it doesnt matter if grandma dies'

This Satanic nation needs to burn to the fucking ground

>>18115165
BACK TO WORK WAGIE

>>18115165
If we keep heading towards Great Depression 2.0 like all these talking heads want us to, far more people will die than some of grimmer China Virus projections. These people can’t think past the first emotion they feel towards an issue.

>>18115450
>think about the quality of life in a global economic collapse

Doesn't have to be a collapse of we smoothly transition to communism.

>>18115650
>smoothly transition to communism.
Apologize to 100's of millions of starved Ukrainians, Chinese, Cambodians, and Venezuelans right now.

>>18115243
it means, if we shut it all down, we'll be back in the stone age
no electric
no running water
no food
no production of anything, medical equipment, cars, clothes, whatever
how do you think we'll have all these nice things when nobody works? should a few people go risk their life catching virus and provide everything for you for free? or that it appears out of nowhere? are you retarded?

>>18115165
back in your cage, wagie

The idea that it's a binary choice between economic harm and mass deaths is a false dichotomy. Mass deaths are going to cause just as much economy harm as the quarantines.

Fuck boomers. They can isolate while this nothing burger blows over but I'm sick of them holding the economy hostage like this. They deserve to die anyway, fuck boomers. The bull market was too much and they just go crazy without ruining the finances of millennials in some way so this is what they came up with.

>>18115243
it means if your economy sucks you can't pay for good healthcare retard

>>18115165
>the brainlet david sirota
>the giga brain wsj

yeah when are we going to reach our breaking point when normies are hurting financially and want to go back to work? i'm hoping it's soon.

>>18115165
>retards think numbers going uppie on a screen means society is on the right track
>willing to step over bodies so long as they can see their porfolio value grow in goybucks even as goybucks are inflated
fellow burgers, we’re never gonna make it

>>18115165
Its true though. If the economy collapses there will be more dead from that than the virus. Any retard who thinks trying to get the economy up and running again as fast as possible is trading lives for money is a sub-IQ retard.

>>18115806
>stock market = economy

>>18115165
The sentence is right though. You can't obsessively force everybody into bubbles forever to keep them safe. It's smart now to minimize the impact of the virus, but you have to consider the trade-offs. At some point we have to return to normal. We would save a lot of lives if we lived like this forever, less car crashes, less disease spreading in general. But it would be a terrible way for society to continue.

>>18115835
Its not about the stock market you knob, its about getting people working again and making sure supply chains don't collapse. The stock market is just a reflection of a functioning economy. It doesn't matter if someone is rich or poor if there is nothing to buy and no food to eat.

>>18115839
Hardly. VR society would be great and delivery prices would be competitive.

>>18115208
The industrial revolution was a mistake

>>18115883
I just don't know if I'm ready for Death Stranding's world. If we got holodecks and perfect VR for interacting online I might be down though.

>>18115472
No one can afford it anyway

>>18115165
It's the right choice. It's a decision between the lives of boomers or many years of immense suffering

>>18115629
Yea

>>18115472
People don't ke care of their health. Unless we require they pay out of pocket if they are obese, get cancer, have hypertension, diabetes II, smoke, etc. then social medicine will never function. I work in health care and it is disgusting some of the people who come through. They don't care that they are leeching off of the system for easily preventable things and racking up six figure costs. I'd rather let them die in the streets than pay a single cent towards their care. There is way too much coverage in America if you aren't retarded and take an objective view. We are keeping people alive who really don't deserve it.

>>18115165
>Shut down economy
>Everyone stops being able to eat and the entire division of labor collapses and every urbanite starts dying because there's no fucking work and the system can't support everything grinding to a halt

Shutting down the economy will lead to far more deaths than the virus will. The strain of trying to support 80% of people who are banned from contributing in return, will lead to a total collapse, and everyone who isn't rural or has an escape plan, will die fighting over clean water and gasoline.

>>18115924
>The industrial revolution was a mistake

>>18115650
>if we smoothly transition to communism.
OH NONONONONONO

*BREATHES IN*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>18115193
>>18115243
>>18115269
>>18115493
>>18115629
>>18115635
>>18115650
>>18115691
>>18115774

>>18115208
Our only options are to go back to living in small villages or to ride capitalism so far that we have a fully automated world, but even then we will still be living in a world of usury.

>>18117047
based, fuck china

>>18116835
Leftists think "the economy" is CEO bonuses. They don't realize that once it actually shuts down it will take decades to build back up and at least 10% of the population will starve to death.

>>18117061
They are the retards that think literally everything should be free. They have no clue how the world actually works because they are privileged retards with no real world experience who got successfully brainwashed by commie professors.

>>18117061
>>18117117
They want USA to be destroyed. It's the implicit goal of all leftoids.

>>18115165

>>18117061
Like, how, though? Will the infrastructure all just go away?

>>18117258
Yes.

>>18115835
At this point the stock market is the most important part of the economy.

>>18117267
how though

>>18117061
More like people indoctrinated by bankers and jews think our current financial systems and capitalism are somehow inextricably intertwined.

They aren't. Shutting down "the economy" kills this parasitic credit system. Yes, there will be some damage to the host, but capitalism and republican forms of governance will be just fine in the long run. Many of aristocracy will be brought to ruin though, and - as evidenced by all of the leaping off of buildings - they would rather die and/or ruin the lives of billions than become a *shudder* the working middle class.

>>18115450
You lack the creativity to understand how well we would do if we removed the misutilization of our current system. People can still trade. There can still be a new currency. I mean come ONN dude. If you think this is great then you really area lost.

>>18115208
right

>>18115208
>yeah lets just go back to the middle ages
Yes.

>>18117443
It's honestly kind of hilarious how left and right are united in believing that rent seeking old money bankers = capitalism.
Capitalism is about exchanging value for other kinds of value.
Bankers have very little to do with that.

>>18117162
legitimately can't tell how many layers of irony this is on

>>18115165
https://www.bitchute.com/video/lSaKoijh6YDd/
The solution is easy lets all get together and do something about it. Here is the history and solution to the problem

Can't believe people are letting the boomers crash the economy, drive tons into poverty, suicide, etc. just to protect their shitty asses. This damn virus is literally a fucking flu for non boomers. Too bad everyone in power is a boomer and willing to crash it all to save their hides.

>>18115678
essential services retard.

>>18117812
Objectively the worst fucking generation in human history

>>18115472
People in the Czech republic have higher average life expectancies.

>>18117812
>Just a flu bro
>Permanently damages your lungs

>>18117812
It also kills infants. That part isn't as widely advertised because then shit would really hit the fan.

>>18115208
Or lets just close our fucking borders and build shit locally.

>>18115208
>Yes.

>>18115883
>vr society would be great

>>18118003
i'm hearing alot about it damaging your lungs but what about the rest of your body? does it make you sterile? will it make your children retarded too?

>>18115806

This is what it looks like when you are indoctrinated by markets. I'm not even suggesting we should go on a full lockdown, but you can feasibly suspend markets and create an emergency economy, and then return to markets afterwards without an issue. This is virtually done in every emergency, like a hurricane ravaging an area so that people have to eat rations and live in trailers until the damage can be fixed. What the WSJ is suggesting is that the market can't handle this emergency, which is true much like those other emergencies. The market lags, and it falls apart with big shocks. The productive capital is all still there though. The infrastructure is there to provide food and housing and energy and supplies. The problem is the market is not so flexible that everybody can just leave their jobs for two weeks and the cash flows will still deliver food and services to the right places. That requires emergency command economies and rationing.

But either the powers that be are afraid to try that because they thing it is a pandora's box, or they don't know how to do it, or they don't think it is necessary. It could be any of them. But if they genuinely think 3 million or whatever people are going to die and that is a necessary sacrifice for the market, then this is basically just America's Holodomor. They're just choosing to let some people die because of economic goals, which in this case is making asset prices go back up.

>>18115165
The bears are the good guys. Hope you bullshit retards are happy with your modest gains at the expense of everyone (including yourselves) when this shit is prolonged due to your greed.

>>18118141
You are a fucking retard to compare some natural disasters that effect a region to entire nations shutting down their economies for a quarantine. When a hurricane, tornado, or earthquake hits it only effects that area, everywhere else is functioning properly and supplies can be brought in. In this case many things are shut down nationwide, that has a ripple effect on everything else. You can't go to work? Well you can't pay your rent. You can't pay your rent? The apartments or landlords cant pay their bills. Most restaurants and other businesses survive on a small margin. If they don't get customers they don't have the money to stay in operation. If people can't go into a farm or a factory, they can't produce the goods you need. Its a cascading effect that compounds as things collapse. If things collapse people panic. Desperate people do desperate things and society breaks down.

If we want to survive, we need to get the economy rolling as soon as possible to save as many lives as possible before we devolve into anarchy.

>>18115524
burgers can't into that thinking

>>18115450
Why not both?

>>18118141
>, but you can feasibly suspend markets and create an emergency economy,
What the fuck doesn't this even mean?

>>18115208
>yeah lets just go back to the middle ages

>>18118003
Fake news.

>>18115208
yes, let us spend generations building glorious stone cathedrals that represent the grandeur of heaven instead of these soulless glass and metal skyscrapers that look like gaming computer ram

I don't think people are aware of just how much damage high unemployment does to a country. It's not just some people being bored in their homes for a couple weeks. We could see a massive increase in suicide, drug abuse, divorce, crime and other negative anti-social behavior. Is it all worth it to save a couple boomers? I doubt it

>>18115165
guys guys guys
i has idea
what if we destroy our country over the common cold?
because fuck drumpfph
then we could kill eachother!!!
and all those guys with guns don't stand a chance!
wait maybe i didn't think this through
ahhh don't shoot me

>>18115924
this world was a mistake

>>18118766
>the common cold?
This is how you murder millions of people.
With ignorance.

>>18118763
Child abuse rates are already up 400% in California, especially violent abuse. It's sketch how many black eyes I'm seeing coming through the checkout.

>>18118812
death rate in USA is 1.5 percent
we are mostly only testing symptomatic
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/testing.html
>How to get tested
>If you have symptoms of COVID-19 and want to get tested, try calling your state or local health department or a medical provider.
mild to asymptomatic percentage is roughly 80%
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-80-percent-cases-are-mild-2020-2
so if you assume only 20% of those with coronavirus have symptoms severe enough to be getting tested then you calculate 20% of 1.5 percent fatality rate is 0.3

>>18118958
forgot 1.5 fatality rate reference
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-pandemic-us-fatality-rate-steady-about-1-percent/#slide-1
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/lower-coronavirus-death-rate-estimates/

>>18118763
This. People lost their fucking minds over this shit. The virus is not deadly enough or virulent enough to warrant this ludicrous response considering the long term sweeping economic damage its inflicting. People die from the flu and other seasonal diseases every fucking year and people don't go apeshit. Literally thousands of Americans die to the fucking flu virus and you don't see people panic buying and companies laying off workforces. Know why? Cause the fucking media didn't make everybody panic about it, governments didn't overreact and force everybody to shut everything down.

This bullshit is entirely the media's fault.

>>18119160
This is incorrect. I am a physician. The NYC hospitals are overrun. This is a plague. There arent enough beds, vents, or rooms or ppe. There are now makeshift morgues. Dont be like NYC. Stay inside, stay away.

>>18119262
He doesn't respect it and won't respect it. It's not real to him.
To be honest, I won't even take any pleasure saying I told you so when the magical ignore the virus and return to work plan goes sour.

>>18119262
>NYC hospitals are overrun
>Dont be like NYC
don't worry, we wont

>>18119315

>>18115236
Underrated

>>18119321

>>18119332

>>18119262
The shutdown isn't sustainable.

>>18115543
>sorry sir your insurance doesn't cover the cost of the ventilator support, you'll have to fork $20 000 a day out of your pocket
>we're terribly sorry sir but just because ventilator units sit unused doesn't mean we'll give them for free

>>18119338
best for last

>>18115165
>dude just stop the whole economy for a while, just like for a few months
Yes I'm sure this won't start a massive feedback loop of defaults and organizational capital losses, ultimately questioning the sovereignty of the political order itself

>>18119339
It's going to be shutdown one way or another. It's the captain of the ship telling the lighthouse to get out of the way.
You will yield, even if you claim you have the right away.

>>18119262
We are a city of 10 million. We can’t handle 10 thousand people. This is a complete joke. We need to get back to work. Many more people will die. This is the sacrifice we as Americans will need to make to avoid a complete economic and societal collapse. Going forward we make preparations on how to better handle a pandemic and thank our lucky stars this one was not as deadly as it could have been.

Is anyone even not working right now? I've been working this whole fucking time.

>>18119345
Do you think these people are just that stupid or do you think they brag to their friends about their body counts?

>>18119366
you first nigger

>>18119365
>It's going to be shutdown one way or another.
No, it won't. The country isn't a DVD you can press pause on for months and expect everything to resume smoothly. Most people will not die from the virus. Most productive people will continue to work.

>>18119262
That is an extremely temporary problem, whereas shutting down the entire fucking economy is a problem with long lasting negative effects that will cascade into generational problems. We may never live to see the end of the corona virus shutdown if it goes on too long.

>>18115839
>we have to return to normal
That place doesn't exist anymore, anon.

>>18119372
i have asthma and im seriously weighing stuffing my exhaust pipe and letting the engine run

>>18119365
No, it really isn't. A huge majority of the people infected are not hospitalized and don't have serious symptoms or complications. If nothing was done more people would get sick but the economy would function just fine. The only problem would be an immense strain on hospitals, which would be resolved with emergency allocation of resources to areas that need it. Encouraging people who can work remotely to do so would help prevent the spread, along with other social distancing measures, but shutting down the economy is economic suicide.

>>18117061
>will take decades to build back up
Tell that to Hitler.

>>18119386
>Most people will not die from the virus.
T. armchair practitioner.

>>18115269
Can't have an economy if the government fucks it up. Markets can, and will get the means to heal people if the government doesn't fuck them up. But that's not what is going to happen.

>>18119435
Point to the country where most people died from the virus, retard.

>>18117443
>as evidenced by all of the leaping off of buildings
Link

>>18115673
Hohols starved themselves though.
>famine strikes, food supply low all over the country
>ask every member state to pitch their food stocks into common food distribution pool
>everyone complies because troubled times and communist camaraderie
>except ukraine
>they think that famine, hunger and obligation to share resources as a sworn duty of a communist state aren't good reasons to actually share anything
>we ain't got time for your shit ukraine, hand it over
>no
>nkvd commissars dispatched to collect food from ukraine in voluntary-compulsory manner
>ukraineans decide that they'd rather die than share anything
>slaughter their own livestock and burn their own grains
>in the middle of a fucking famine and hunger all over the country
>proceed to starve because no food
>blame russians
>blame communism in general
>say "le ebul gommies genocided us, we were gud boiz we dindu nuffin" whenever people ask about the events

>>18119435
t. retard who doesn't understand economic consequences

>>18117689
How anyone could think we live in a capitalist system just shows that most people don't understand capitalism.

>>18119459
This isn't the picture I posted. It was supposed to be a kitty making a curious face.

>even this board has been taken by lefty tranny faggots.
Holy shit not even 4chan is safe from bernie brothers. FUCK OFF ALREADY.

Your "candidate" got steamrolled by a fucking demented senile man

If a virus with a CFR rate a few times higher than the seasonal flu causes this kind of chaos and reaction, than globalism is done after this.
Maybe that's a good thing in the long run.
At least people will start taking personal health and hygiene more seriously in the West now. Try 1% less bodyfat before you blame the 1% wealth class? Godspeed to everyone else.

>>18115269
>this guy doesn't know about the hidden economy of the astral plane

>>18119487
dude, girls are obsolete these days. once they turn 19 or maybe 20 they're completely used up.
the only good girls these days either have a penis, or they're camwhores masquerading as self-employed models doing ASMR's and FanOnlys.
If you can't get with the times then get to steppin player, leave with some dignity.

>>18118141
>That requires emergency command economies and rationing.
The long term damage of inflating the currency and selecting people to give it to, especially at this scale will be absolute devastating. The only reason people in America live paycheck to paycheck is because the currency is already massively inflated already and it's only going to get worse. You should stock up on food, not because of quarantine, but because it'll cost 2-5x as much next year.

>>18118303
We absolutely need a federal quarantine for at least a month. Actual lockdown. It'll be a bit to the economy, but after that time the virus will be manageable. Doing what we are doing now is only allowing it to spread.

>>18116723
This is the Boomers WWIII. They lived a real cushy life for the most part. Luckily the younger generations can push through and fight this off. This is the truth and the only way forward.

>>18116835
Well actually modern agriculture can easily support all that shit easy - it currently does with a large surplus of production. It's just they won't like the idea of doing this for no compensation.

>>18119160
>what is exponential growth

This kills three times the amount of people a day than the flu. A couple weeks ago it killed half the amount of people the flu kills daily.

>>18119315
>>18119321
>get chink aids to not be a racist

>>18117061
You literally just flip the switch back on, and off you go. Nothing's gonna break if left unattended for a decade or two, it's gonna accumulate an inch thick layer of dust sure but it's nothing that'll stop it from functioning.

>>18119366
Everyone getting sick has the same effect.

>>18119459
Faggot

>>18119546
>The only reason people in America live paycheck to paycheck is because the currency is already massively inflated already and it's only going to get worse.
False. It is the case because they're too stupid to ration their money. I live off $50 a week in a country where literally everything is more expensive than the US, what's amerilards' excuse for pissing away 10x as much money and not saving up any of it?

>>18117047
This post is russian propaganda.

>>18119700
Saving isn't incentivized. Only spending and investing in stocks became fake and gay rates set by central banks.

Invest in CoronaChan.
COVID-19 is Bullish.

>>18119459
>Voluntary-compulsory
I too like new double plus good words, gee why didn't the nice commies just let them keep their food to feed themselves, after all what's the point of collecting it all just to distribute it back to the same people, seems massively inefficient and like just a typical commie excuse to skim off the top and live off the people's labor chairman anon.

>>18119738
>Saving isn't incentivized. Only spending and investing in stocks became fake and gay rates set by central banks.

This anon gets it.

>>18119628
This. What the fuck are the muh-economyfags smoking

>>18119440
Italy has a death rate of 10 percent right now for people with the virus, because their infections exceeded their hospital capacity. From all accounts, that's started in New York City. I would warrant that we're going to hit this point in other American cities soon.

A full quarantine and martial law would resolve this problem, like it currently has in China. Letting everyone wander around shaking hands and coughing on each other will lead us down the same path as Italy.

>>18119800
Stonks.

>>18119751
Well you see at the time ukraine alone has as much crop yield as the rest of the soviet union combined. They were paid a fair price for all of that, too, it's just they were ordered to sell to specific parties and they decided not to out of principle. At times like that you do not put up with anyone's bullshit, anon. In hindsight Ukraine should've been thrown out of Soviet Union instead. Maybe both countries would've been better off that way. I know modern Russia would, if Soviet Union didn't spent colossal amount of money building up infrastructure and production facilities in Ukraine and had put them in the next best location - Russia itself.

>>18119628
Good luck finding people who know how to use any of it or upkeep, if you want to see what happens when you leave infrastructure in the hands of idiots and neanderthals who can't think beyond gimme gimme now just look at what happened to Africa, left with railroads and whatnot and as soon as Europe left they tore it all apart, hell they're still tearing down their own power grids to make fried chicken with the oil in the transformers, good luck running America with a bunch of wagie slavies who's only job experience before the revolution mcd and Starbucks, this is why all your shitty communist countries turn into shitholes, cuz the only way you can get shit done at the end is put a gun to the people's head and force them to figure things out of a desperation to live, utterly disgusting.

>>18119809
I doubt we will see as high as 10% but we are certainly going to rocket above 1.5%. We have the most confirmed cases world wide at the moment and it is only climbing every day.
Once the hospitals get overrun how do we count the deaths unrelated to COVID-19 but related to unable to receive care?
We are already low on supplies as it is. Maybe we go pure capitalism and have auctions for ventilators and access to doctors?

>>18118036
Source?

>>18119855
Whose not who's

>>18119851
So let's see if I understand you, commies tell Ukraine to give food, Ukraine says no and if you force us we'll burn our own supply in defiance, commies look at this and say hmmm yes let's attempt to force them anyways even though we know this will result in food being burnt and people starving to death, basically a lose lose situation for everyone, but we're gonna do it anyways! Yup sounds like the kind of people I want in charge, how compassionate and wise these commies are, I'm sure a capitalist system couldn't come up with a better solution

>>18119855
You're making it sound harder than it really is. CNC equipment might be difficult to approach without a manual but beyond that everything is labeled and is generally self-explanatory.
>africa
When I said "unattended" I meant "left alone in shutdown state", not "used heavily with no maintenance whatsoever".

Well the shillbots and /pol/ like the fruits of american anarcho capitalism
Why dont you /biz/?

>>18115493
kek - privatised "healthcare"

>>18119918
They didn't warn/threat anyone in advance that they were planning such a stunt. All that horseshit happened basically overnight when the commissars actually showed up with empty trucks and big irons on their hips. I know it's fun to think of commies, nazis, the 1% etc as cartoon villains, but they're really not, they're human beings with human motivations as much as you are.

>>18119959
>>18119918
Let me put it this way. Imagine if the gay cake baker went full retard about it and burned down their business just to refuse making a gay cake.

Tachyon reconstruct TCO/IP protocol through the use of blockchains, DHT and UDP.

>>18119857
Ten percent is high in my opinion as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if the mortality rate went above 4. My solution to this dilemma is martial law, simply put. Convert nonessential facilities over to temporary medical facilities, convert some of our numerous empty factories over to the production of generic medical equipment and drugs, use our military medical experts to assist civilians. Keep everyone who isn't immediately necessary to food production, maintaining utilities or producing emergency medical supplies quarantined. If and when medical equipment must be rationed among patients, it should be divided along a sweetspot between infection severity and likelihood of survival. The hale and hearty will do without, and those who are on the verge of death will be made comfortable in their last moments.

It'll hurt the economy, but so would anything else right now. This would be the best way to try and reduce infections as well as deaths from said infections, which will be extremely important now that we're the most infected nation on earth.

>>18119959
I don't fault the people carrying out the orders after all they were just replaceable cogs of the system themselves, no I take issue with a system that cannot compromise or negotiate on something as simple as procuring food, last thing I want is a clumsy government incapable of navigating trying times without making oopsie woopsies that are lose lose situations for everyone, at least when the state isn't all encompassing or authoritative the damage is limited somewhat since chances are all the people fucking up are at least outweighed by some people doing things right instead of forcing everyone to go along when the government fucks things up like it typically does when given a lucrative monopoly

>>18120113
They lived in a planned economy. Their government sanctioned production plan was to send a lot of their food stock to other communist states. They were paid to do this like normal. But the actual people who were supposed to sell the goods decided that they won't. And it's not something you can do in a planned economy state, it's literally a crime. And destroying the supply that you don't get to keep either way is just heinous no matter how you look at it, especially since people's life depended on getting it.

>>18115208
I'm sold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PuvPEoNK5o

>>18120113
The system would collapse without individuals.
They aren't cogs, they are support beams. complacency is advocacy.
The individual is not free of responsibility just because other individuals are doing immoral shit.

>>18120199
Then maybe they shouldn't have lived in a planned economy, too bad the people in Ukraine didn't get a say in all that, but I'm sure as they starved to death they were grateful to the revolutionaries that freed them from the chains of servitude to the upperclass, much better to serve chairman Stalin and the politburo. If only communism worked as planned and imagined, too bad it doesn't account for human nature.

>>18120240
Do you think the people in charge regardless of system or politics sees the masses as anything but cogs or "support beams"? Sure key supporters and powerful allies are people, the underlings and whathaveyous have never mattered to any side as more than cannonfodder, to argue otherwise only shows how brainwashed you are by whatever propoganda your side pushes. Where's the state funerals and monuments to these responsible support beams that give everything for the state? You also assume a lot of loyalty when 99% of these people don't give a shit who is in charge and work the same roles when power changes hands, just changes what badge they wear on their shirt to work tomorrow.

>>18120257
Planned economy sucked for the most part, but handling the famine was the one instance where it worked spectacularly - despite massive food shortages exacerbated by half of it being destroyed by a bunch of spiteful rednecks for literally no reason whatsoever, not many people died and most of the death toll was concentrated in Ukraine itself, which you can consider their karmic punishment for being such an utter tools in a grave situation like that.

Ukrainean government worked about as well and honorably as you'd expect, they got a full say in this. The farmers refused to cooperate full stop. Would it kill them to sell some of their grain to other parts of USSR? No. Would anyone rob them of their entire food supply so that they'd die? No (avoiding this was the entire point). They had food and others didn't, they were asked to share it for compensation and they refused, they were told to share at a gunpoint and they set their food on fire, making sure that everyone starves. Communism or capitalism, I'd put them against a wall and executed on the spot for giving me shit like this. Nobody was actually executed, which is a massive shame, the motherfuckers caused deaths of millions of soviet people most of which were their Ukrainean brethren and the worst thing that happened is that a few kulaks went to jail for a few years and their private property was made into communal property.

>>18120333
The majority of power is derived by proxying peoples power to their interests.
If everyone came together like a union and said no, any machine would immediately collapse under it's own weight.

That is what I find so funny, the most powerful people on the planet depend on janitors.

>>18119464
No u
Capitalism has involved banks and corporations since 1600s

>>18117047
>reject jew bankers
>kills drug dealers
>kills their muslim population
>death sentence


If you dont call this based you are a certified kike, no way around it.

>>18115236
repos are basically just low-interest loans. they have to repaid in full. stop being a retard.

>>18120442
There's nothing wrong with banks and corporations. The problem is the money system. For capitalism to exist the money needs to be a commodity like gold or Bitcoin.

>>18120483
They get rolled over

>>18118763
>It's not just some people being bored in their homes for a couple weeks
that's what pisses me off the most about this is that if you look at social media it's just a bunch of entitled trust funders, cityfags and e-celebs making jokes about "lol so boring, stay inside and wash your hands" completely ignorant to the fact that there are millions of people who either can't go to work because their retarded governors shut everything down, don't have a job that can be done remotely or have to take care of their kids because of the retarded government closing all schools.

>>18120402
If you put a gun to a man's head to force him to share his food or die and he tells you to fuck off and burns his food too in an act of defiance, you're just as guilty for the outcome of the situation as the farmer for forcing the rat into a corner, and let's not pretend the farmers were getting a fair price for his product either, you guys advocate for higher wages and he'll even 15 dollars minimum wage these days, you think those farmers got anything close to that? I'd prefer a system that's a bit more flexible in dire straits and doesn't resort to gun to head for solutions to everything just because they can because they took the guns from everybody that might resist, what options of resistance and protest are left but to set your own stuff on fire? If you mock the Ukrainian for that just know you also don't understand why monks in Asia burned themselves to death or the poor Muslim farmer set himself on fire to start the Arab spring.

>>18120488
>NOOOO there is nothing wrong with banks its just uh the FUCKING money system

Tachyon prioritizes Distance,Efficiency, and credit inorder to get the available routes

>>18120421
Good luck coming to a consensus on issues without forcing guns to people's heads, your ideal is predicated on everybody agreeing all the time and disagreements always being resolved efficiently. Too bad people have their own opinions and thoughts on stuff and the world isn't so black and white, that's the funny thing about communism, can't seem to tolerate differences of opinions for long before gulags and purges pop up

>>18120529
If you have a life-critical resource that can last both of us but you're not sharing, for free nor for a fee, I'm gonna put a bullet through your head. It's simple. If you condemn both of us to death by destroying it, I'm also gonna put a bullet through your head, but while wishing that I was able to end your life several times over.

>>18119487
How deep in a protective bubble do you need to be to believe /biz/ is leftist? By those standards you probably think /pol/ is centrist, right? Sorry we can't be the hugbox you clearly need.

>>18115165
Please help me out here. I am legitimately asking this question because I have a PA in the family so my medical knowledge is skewed: do normalfaggots really seriously unironically not understand that "senior citizen" and "geriatric" are just nice ways of saying, "From this point forward, as long as it is obvious that your death was not caused by homicide, suicide, or misadventure, we're slapping 'natural causes' on your death certificate and moving along like you're a flattened animal on the side of the road because, at your age, dropping dead out of nowhere is normal"?

>>18120595
You don't drop dead out of nowhere. You have an illness that finally conquered your body.

>>18120581
If you demand a life critical resource from me that I needed too for a pittance that wasn't worth even the dirt the food grew in and then up your demand with a threat of violence why are you surprised the moral high ground doesn't belong to you, the farmer isn't free of guilt either but I can't believe you actually buy into the idea that you have the moral high ground in this situation somehow, sure in an animalistic sense you are right, everybody should and would fight for their life if in a life or death situation like that, but claiming that's how an enlightened modern government should operate is delusional at best and insane powermongering at worst. Like I said why should I support a system that allows the situation to get to the point where I would have to shoot the farmer in the first place, doesn't sound like a good system to me.

>>18120595
Well people as young as 30 are found dead the next day but I mean that's standard for a common cold or flu type virus, right?

>>18120649
It was a necessary move. Their other option was to cuck out and let most of the soviet union starve with a lot of casualties all while ukraine had food aplenty. Again, the core problem is in destruction of food. What did it accomplish? Nothing positive, is what. It just caused more deaths, mostly of their own peoples. Even if they were getting absolutely nothing out of it and were literally robbed at a gunpoint (which they weren't, they were paid fair soviet prices for their food stocks same as all other farmers), they'd be left alive and they'd be left with enough food to make it through the famine, which was a better option than fucking dying and also causing deaths of others by proxy. There's no angle at which making childish nit-witted decisions like that that serve nothing but vitriol looks good or even acceptable for an adult human being, and there's no mental triple somersault you can make to justify destroying food mid-famine.

>>18120581
Also your argument literally boils down to the weak should fear the strong, I have gun so give me food, your policies are literally the same as post apocalyptic raiders who can't grow their own food but own the "land", you know that arguing without meat the wolf will starve falls on deaf ears when the audience is sheep, right?

>>18117047
>Hurr durr everyone I disagree with is a psyop chink, jidf, nigger, spic, russian
t.faggot

>>18120749
Are you intentionally missing all the context or are you just dumb?

Acknowledgment of Tachyon application layer help to improve reliability, bandwidth management and also reduces packet loss and data redundancy.

>>18120724
So you also hold the opinion then that suicide is wrong and no triple mental somersault can justify it whether arguing from the perspective of human dignity or freedom? Also I don't know what propoganda sources you are getting your opinions from but your rosy imagining of how the Soviets treated the Ukrainian is hilarious, yeah forcing people who can't meet your quota to give up livestock, and then somehow come up with 15 times the quota is reasonable and well thought out measures, lol I hope the Ukrainian give one last big ol fuck you to the commissars as the grain went up in smoke, better to die on your feet than live on your knees, too bad you imagine yourself at the head of the politburo when in reality you'd just be another miserable failure executed for not getting his collectives to meet their ridiculous quotas.

>>18120724
Oh and gee I wonder what caused the famine too, hmm better not look into that too carefully, don't want to upset your perfect ideal of how well the Soviet society ran after all, no the famine wasn't the government's fault at all of course not.

>>18120774
Your context is literally all made up propoganda to make out the Soviets as if they weren't incompetent greedy bastards who couldn't run something as simple as a wheatfield stop huffing in Stalin's farts and go actually read about how the famine started due to Soviet policy and how their mismanagent of the whole situation only made it worse, you're literally blaming the Ukrainian to avoid admitting the user fucking sucked and communism made this fucked up situation even worse

>>18119809
>their infections exceeded their hospital capacity
that's the danger brainlets don't get. the corona is not so lethal so long you have icu/respirator capacity.

it starts to kill masses once this capacity is exhausted.

>>18120034
15% worldwide so far of all outcomes

>>18115193
there is no such a thing it is a hoax, you idiot!
In order to fight .... there is nothing to fight only dummy's like you that running around confirming 100% swindle and spreading panic

>>18120715
Fake news.

>>18120595
he he he it is a hoax , happens every single election . they create swindle and then write over billion dollar check to solve "National Crisis" money goes direct from tax payers pockets. Medically speaking, you need excise in order to sweat out your lymphatic system other ways your body will purge, that what flu is.

>>18120715
You suggest us to imagine = lie

>>18120774
You mean this context right? Lol you seriously think the USSR was the reasonable one this situation? Fuck off tankie.

>>18120955
>sweat out your lymphatic system
hahhah

It's like none of you faggots know what an opinion is.

>>18115924
Agriculture was a mistake.

>>18115493
They may not have needed that considering the several companies now producing ventilators en masse.

>>18115165
>he fell for the corona meme
ngmi
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfx7PnMtCeY

>>18118766
What do you mean we must prevent boomers getting flu at any cost!!! Fuck opioid crisis. Fuck inflation. Diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease? I tell you that. Who cares. Our beautiful boomers can't catch a flu. Everyone has to stay inside

>>18120822
You don't know past, it is suggested to you to believe by people who lie for sure.
You need to know your current human needs and peoples needs around you in order to move in a life serving way . But because you are bamboozled to believe in non existing nonsense
You need to die for mentally healthy peoples sake. A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. cure of your mental zombie state is bullet in the head , because everything inside your head is a lie. Truth is in the front of your eyes, but you smear it with your judgmental mind and act not life serving way.
We can move you from place to place with bamboozled youth in uniforms, but we can not a wake you to reality. and you become burden to society that we can remove with pretext of "virus".

>>18116787
>be first responder
>revive homeless person from heroin od
>~10 hrs later get od run
>arrive on scene, it's the same lady
sometimes i wonder

>>18121121
In the past people like this just disappeared, sucks and is fucked up we can't save them all but what we're doing now is even more fucked up in some ways, just prolonging their suffering and existence in the hellscape that must be their life. But when you hear of the 1 out of 10 or something like that that actually manage to turn it around it definitely still tugs at the heartstrings and reaffirms that perhaps it is worth it, hang in there.

>>18120488 ((( Money ))) tool of usury
Capitalism = usury - ism

We all have got 24h a day to exchange in a meaningful way

In order to have one rich , we need a lots of poor people.

If we club 'Fish heads' 1% born psychopath as a consequence we will have no gov., authority or big owners. ((( usury ))) has to be prosecuted immediately. Death penalty on public place for suggesting to imagine (lie) to the crowd.
Responsibility is ability to respond to own words and actions pointing how does it serve life.

>>18119861
>the media doesn't want to cause any more panic
There is no source, infants are completely asymptomatic
He's a delusional permabear

>>18119339
>>18119366
>>18119487


USA is literally a SATANIC nation

>>18115924
and has been a disaster for mankind

>>18120488
why, so those rich fucks can just soros people with arbitrage while they continue to produce nothing

>>18120566
So you need to see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears = have real life experience in order to understand what 'justice' is.
Justice is realization that it is just us. bamboozled youth i uniforms needed to keep mental sick cock suckers like you, away from mentally healthy people.
Justice is act of re-adjust peoples activities in a life serving way with out punishment or even hate. Grabbers Criminal "justice" is to take advantage from people misery.
Everyone's needs can be met by free giving from the heart with happiness of contribution to life, like feeding birds in the park with a joy.
And we know how to do it step by step, because we have done it before and there for we know that it works. Rule of the people (democracy) is achieved by gathering in to Popular Peoples Congress like we did in Greece, Rome whole west Europe , before grabbers take over with judging and charging. We live by the rule of the grabbers judge and charge win or loose, that cause a lots of suffer for nothing. We want to live by free human will expressed in a Popular People Congress (highest institution of power) by Rule of the People (democracy) .

>>18120995
Yes in deed , lymphatic system has no other pump then you physically move your tissue so that it could drain cells poop in to lymphatic system and sweat out toxins. When your body purge, like sheep in the spring has a flu, to make it fast get over, you need to drink a lots of tea and sweat in sauna or warm in the bed.
So basically "National Crisis" can be solved by nice cup of tea and cuddle with the boobs. That how serious it is. Fear is most contagious danger that spread by mass media and paid shills on internet. The Empirical evidence, also known as sensory experience, is the knowledge received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and experimentation. Ask for evidence or name it as suggested imagination (lie) .

>>18121038
Agree accept Usury is largest mistake.
Freedom to believe = freedom to deceive
Truth does not require even imagine.
Lie and usury has to be prosecuted, regardless how antisemitic it sounds.

>>18115269

The money printer never stops kiddo

>>18115924
based

>>18119346

You say that like this would be a bad thing

Let it all fucking burn

>>18121248
USA is not a nation, nation is united extended family tribes.
It just army of grabbers who are bamboozled to believe in suggested to imagine judgments: Good, bad, right, wrong as excuse for judge and charge. <-- non of it is observe able but imaginary.
We need Rule of The People (democracy) Gather all people in to Popular Peoples Congress (PPC) highest possible institution.

Grabbers rule is judge and charge using power of bamboozled kids in uniform. and everyone do what men say because he have got ((( Money)))
Men Ego authority has to be crushed and rule of the People (Gods authority) restored. If we act in harmony with laws of nature we live. If we act on men made false Idols , fancy pants and lolly pops do not lead to health and prosperity.

>>18115472
Except you can. Currency, albeit useful, was always optional. Fiat currency is exceptionally optional.

>>18115524
>cuba has a good healthcare system

Imagine being this retarded I bet you have never stepped foot in Cuba or left your basement

>>18121619
Why is nobody replying to you? Are you a schizo or something?

>>18119459
I think communists have watched too many feel-good american movies if they thought that the "common food distribution pool" would be distributed back to the common people.

>>18120882
Exactly this.
It's not that you just suddenly drop dead one day, it's that people who have it have an incredibly severe progression of illness that just /burns/ through resources.

>>18119464
>How anyone could think we live in a capitalist system just shows that most people don't understand capitalism.
It's profitable by The Ivory Tower to keep making them think that.
Similarly to how it's beneficial to make them believe they don't live in what's essentially a theocracy.

>>18121038
Tools were a mistake

>>18120715
A few kids and healthy young adults died from corona just like some healthy kids die from lung cancer or tetanus even being vaccined.

Why do /pol/ fags only see the few exceptions and are sure there's a world conspiracy to hide that corona is 100% lethal and you get reinfected constantly until you have no lungs left?
Are you paranoid pussies for real or just larping?

>>18117159
>"leftoids"
>twitter post is about a neoliberal party
Huh?

>>18117159
that sounds like a totally reasonable characterization and not a massive scarecrow

>>18120483
>get millions in loans to undo your fuckery
>then urge people to go back to work so you can start bringing in cash to do more fuckery with

>>18115615
As long as we save the boomers!
Apart from sending manufacturing oversees, shutting down the economy is probably the most selfish act committed by the boomers.

>>18117047
>Anything bad that happens on US soil is China's fault

>>18115650

This anon gets it. That is the only way out of this if we're going to survive.

>>18125461
They literally cannot tell that the GOP is using selective racism to pass off the blame. I'm not even sure how the fuck we can get these faggot bigger miga shitheads to get that it doesnt matter what china is doing. Should we expect china to protect us from what our government is doing in the middle east? Our government exists to protect us and it fucking failed at doing so.

>>18117689

Your understanding of Capitalism is not accurate. Read Das Kapital, which funnily enough is not actually an explicit indictment of Capitalism, but merely an explanation of the arithmetic that makes it work and what conditions lead to it.

Capitalism is about the extraction of surplus value from labor. Simplest explanation: as a laborer, you work x amount of time producing goods/services for your boss until what you have produced equals what you get paid. In a fair system, we would call it a day at that point and everyone goes home having made an equal trade. However, in Capitalism the only way to make a profit on a systemic level is to make the workers labor for longer than it costs to pay them. That extra bit of money is pocketed by the Capitalist, and is called Capital. That surplus value is the namesake of Capitalism.

People might say that profit comes from supply and demand, or by selling goods/services at a markup. But in a competitive market, these advantages are always temporary and disappear fast.

Read up.

>>18115806
Absolutely retarded. You think mass suicide if stocks go down?! And you calling people sub iq. You have to be a nigger republican

>>18115839
>>18115165
>>18115193
>>18115208
>gets coronavirus
>coughing lungs out
>shows up to the hospital
>tfw they ran out of beds and respirators
>theyre talking to each other about some flatten the curve bullshit whatever the fuck that is
>die

jesus, now i have to read fucking communist bullshit on /biz/ of all places. this virus really brings out the absolute dregs.

>>18125792
>current year
>unironically believing marx's outdated labor value theory
Theres no such thing as "extraction of surplus value" in real life buddy. What you call surplus value is compensation for the capitalist for his work and the risk he took. That surplus never belonged to the laborer who only agreed to work for a predetermined price based on the supply and demand of his labor

>>18115269
>market is surging whilst record unemployement
>Can't have an economy if everyone is dead

You can in a clownworld fren

>>18127095
That's probably in anticipation to Trump bucks ending the bear market alongside all the brrrrrrring going on.

>>18125792
>
>Your understanding of Capitalism is not accurate. Read Das Kapital, which funnily enough is not actually an explicit indictment of Capitalism, but merely an explanation of the arithmetic that makes it work and what conditions lead to it.
I have.
Don't be condescending.

>>18115165
WSJ is correct. If you out healthcare as #1 target, you end up like Cuba.

Leftists and Progressives long wanted to become like Cuba, Corona virus is just their cover.

I am convinced Merkel will turn Europe into Cuba 2.0.

>>18126824
>muh risk
Lol there's no such thing as risk when Daddy Fed can always come through with trillions of dollars in hand to save you

>>18129374
So they should be less involved and let people fail. That doesn't change what >>18126824 said.

>>18124004

Except Liberals at one point or another did say most of those things.

>>18115165
Every. Time.

>>18115165
Both are right and wrong at the same time. We need a steady flow of essential goods and services or the quarentine can cause more damage to human life than the virus. A balance has not yet been reached. We need a higher degree of autarchy in most western countries. Our autonomy was destroyed by international division of labour and we need it in order to deal with these kind of events.
At the same time, the elites do not have skin in the game. Their public policy proposals are aimed at maintaning their rule. This is why they changed so quickly their opinions and are pretending that they never doubted the gravity of the crisis. They are rewriting history as we speak in order to appear reasonable. The guy thay wrote the tweet is probably one of them struggling to remain relevant.

>>18115165
it's not sociopathic, he does not understand that economic collapse results in mayhem which will have far devastating effects on people's health.

>>18115165
The WSJ is so fucking retarded sometimes

>4% of the ageing and infirm population die in a few weeks to a natural cause. Problem is over in a matter months and surviving population is evolutionarily stronger.
>100% of the population suffer years of economic depression, reduced standard of living, increased suicides, hunger, hardship, homelessness, increased susceptibility to other diseases, grimmer future for their offspring and the race as a whole.

hmmm

>>18130394
>its da joos