/biz/ - Business & Finance

how much was it after her insurance deductible?

>>17993233
she didnt have any

UNLIMITED FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

>>17993266
then she's a dumb, useless, retard

Hospital beds have a price. Ventilators have a price. Capitalism is how you spread resources in a fair society. The US has many people at poverty level demanding highly regulated and scarce hospital equipment. That's not how reality works.

>>17993228
Is the alternative to let her roam around infecting more people?

>>17993228
Pretty fair price for saving your life if you ask me

>>17993345
uH MAYBE the greedy doctors and nurses could work for free?? Did you ever think of that??

Maybe we could all agree to pay really high taxes so healthcare can be free. We're a nation, we are ONE PEOPLE! WE ARE UNITED! Anyone who steps foot on our magic soil is an AMERICAN and if you don't feel camaraderie with them then you are RACIST.

>>17993289
Based

>>17993345
YES

i'd much rather be roaming the streets spreading the virus to as many mutts as possible before eventually recovering from the flu like weak ass virus naturally

>>17993228
Covid is gonna deepdickpill our healthcare system to 3030

>>17993289
Unlimited health care for citizens now*

>>17993364
none of that money goes into the doctors pockets

>>17993233
>>17993322
Low IQ monkey, kill yourself, insurance is a scam to pay you less you fucking pointless drone.

>>17993326
You’re right. But we also spend more per average unit of care than any developed country so obviously the efficiency of the allocation is a bit shit

>>17993228
it was a beautiful morning

Is this another one of those liberal false flag where they intentionally do retarded shit to make the point we need communism?

>>17993228
I’m a European and lived in the USA for a number of years and I don’t understand the lack of comprehension and understanding from supposedly educated people.
The system in the USA is the way it is for a reason and it isn’t all profit, it is totally broken today and it is politically impossible to fix it and the only ones to blame isn’t the system it is the people who keep voting for the same people who don’t want to fix it, the day the American people decide they want health care more than other things will be the day they vote for it. We have sales tax above 15% in all of Europe some places 20%, can any of you defend that? Also don’t you people understand the concept of list price vs what you pay with insurance? This is biz you’re supposed to be smarter

>>17993684
Nice blog post shill. How about you kys

>>17993364
I'm just curious, since wouldn't in be in everyone's best interest to stop it as soon as possible? The longer is goes on the more shit it'll stir up economy wise.

>>17993228
As if 90% of that will ever be paid. Hospitals are required to provide everyone Healthcare regardless of insurance. They'll slap a $30k bill on your credit, the poor person without insurance doesn't pay a dime, and the bill gets turned into a medical collection. That medical collection will be settled for pennies on the dollar, only THEN she'll likely end up paying $1k-2k to settle it or just let it tank her credit and paying absolutely nothing. Not defending the system, it sucks, but people read headlines like this and assume she either won't get Healthcare or become a debt slave.

>>17993622
Then get rid of shitskins who are a net drain, thanks kikes

I'd rather 10 million die than 1 penny of my work be stolen from me to pay for somebody else's healthcare, especially someone brown or with a vagina.

>>17993364
you really are dumb as fuck destiny tier retardation

>tfw no insurance
I'll just get better on my own fuck that lmao

>>17993943
groundrock and berrypilled

>>17993622
dumb americans don't know this

>>17993943
Hear hear.

>>17993959
You can quite easily settle hospital bills in cash for a fraction of the sticker price. Or go find a difficult and useful job, which would pay better and provide insurance.

>>17993684
No, just let the /pol/ think tank burn burgerland to the ground, there's no point in trying to reason with this.

>>17993228
Now it’s pretty obvious why mine and other Europoor countries are scared as fuck of this. I read today that in Sweden authorities are gonna decide who gets treatment and not because of the resource drain on a limited system.
I bet they will go with the darker your skin, the more priority. Swedish government hate its tax payers.

>>17993588
Deltron Zero, hero, not no small feat.

>>17993684
>We have sales tax above 15% in all of Europe some places 20%, can any of you defend that?
Yeah, because it means we can afford to get sick.

>>17993943
he based

>>17993228
At least she’s alive.

>>17994325
>Italian deaths : 4000
>Spain deaths 1900
>USA deaths : 350


Afford to get sick and die

>>17994454
>mfw an American is stupid near me
I was going to explain why your so-called analysis is retarded, but I genuinely can't explain things at such a low level that you'd be able to understand it.

>>17994454
Did you forget about germany. Scandinavia, and france?

>>17993326
>Capitalism is how you spread resources in a fair society
Capitalism "spreads resources" according to profit, not by need. Capitalism is a failing system and it's inadequacies are starting to become glaring if they haven't been already obvious for centuries now. If it's more profitable to have factories producing trinkets rather than necessities then that is how resources will be allocated. Some of the most important necessities in modern life can't be covered under capitalism because it simply wouldn't be profitable.

>>17994591
>Posting viper
>not posting "what the fuck is a recession" album cover.

>>17994716
>Capitalism is a failing system
Oi what's the alternative?

>>17994716
It's impossible for capitalism to fail in its natural form, free trade. What's failing is government intervention and corporate welfare.

Something something only billionaires should get healthcare, Soviet Union had single payer

>>17994784
Collective, democratic, decentralized, control of the means of production. We should focus our productive habits upon need and ability rather than profit.

>>17994802
Lmfao, this is crazy high on ideology. What has prevented it from failing up to this point was government intervention in the market. What is failing now is government intervention in the market.

>>17994802

Yeah free trade worked out great for us the last forty years. Let me guess you think outsourcing is a good thing you filthy kike

>>17994784

National socialism

>>17994827
>decentralized
lmfao anarchism isn't possible bro sorry completely unrealistic.

>>17994887
>What's the alternative?

>Capitalism but with boots on the ground :^)

>>17993266
Let her die

>>17994887
I didn't say anarchism. I said decentralized.

Also you failed to give an actual argument as to why such a thing is impossible. It's only as impossible as you make it. Is a decentralized group of individuals working for their own collective benefit anymore or less possible than us entering the next great depression?
One of the largest companies in the world; producing technological components for computers for Microsoft is a cooperative. It has 500mill workers. It's called mondragon.

You are the only thing placing restrictions upon yourself.

>>17994784
Fascism

>>17994859
>Government sucking up 30% of the national economy
>Free trade

The problem with you commies is that words never have fixed definitions with you, only fixed emotions. "Free Trade" are evil words to you, so no amount of detailed history, philosophic logic, or real world example, will sway you from your paranoia and ineptitude.

>>17993326
but it could be, if we actually invested in hospitals instead of pointless wars and other boondoggles.

>>17994964
>What's the alternative?

>Capitalism but with boots on the ground :^)

>>17994454
you're really tempting fate there, bud

>>17993228
us is fucked

>>17994970
We already have anarcho capitalism. The government is just another commodity. There would be little fundamental difference if you privatized the government.

Anarcho capitalism would quite, literally, become a neo-fudeal society ruled by robber barrens and rental sharks. Basically what it is now, but, with out any regulations to try and restrict market failures.

>>17994940
All that shit can get squashed by government, decentralization is the same thing as saying you want anarchism there's not much of a difference. If you want something successful you work with the government.

>>17994997
did you miss the part where hitler called it national socialism?

look i get it, fuck brown people and women. but at the end of the day, this shitty system is going to bite everyone in the ass. enjoy posting your pepes while you can.

>>17994970
Free market is as corruptable as the government due to human behavior.

Literally the only way for a free market to be sustainable is to do a hard reset just like the Founders did with America. However, that period wont be long lasted. If anything, free market is just as idealistic as communism.

>>17995014
Maybe governments should be abolished then?
Right now I am going to have an easier time getting people to go against the grain that for it.

>>17993266
Then fuck her

>>17993326
>That's not how reality works
Being rich don't save you from the Wuhan virus, that's the only reality

>>17994716

Human needs are endless, resources are not. If a product is offered but it's useless to me, why would I buy it? If someone spent years developing a service, why should they give it away for free? These things don't make sense in communism.

First create infinite resources, then we can talk about fulfilling all needs for everyone.

>>17994716

As for your image, it is the government mandated minimum wage that prevents people who are worth less than that from working. These problems simply didn't exist before government intervention.

>>17995056
resources are very limited. unless of course we want to give 1.5 trillion to bankers :^)

>>17995056
Nothing is given or taken in communism. All is for all. All is produced for the use and benifit of all.
We are born of this world and we shall return to it.

The real question is why should anyone have the right to hoard everything? Most of the readon why people are with out in the economy today is not because we do not produce enough to go around but because we have a system the distributes based on profitability not need.

>>17994716
>profit is bad, so lets steal people's profits because gimme gimme
>nobody can profit off of important necessities, even though in a free market prices are determined by how important the product is

>>17995012

And how would such a state become tyrannical without the power of taxation? People can just not pay.

>>17994802
>What's failing is government intervention and corporate welfare.
Yes, but you did nothing to stop the fuckton of regulations that pilled up year after year, you made your bed now lie in it

>>17995106
Reason****

>>17995106

What if I don't want to participate? I don't work for free.

>>17995110
>in a free market prices are determined by how important the product is
that simply isn't true, you dumb faggot. step outside the libertarian utopia that only exists in your deluded mind

Just curious. In america, if you simply don't pay your medical bills, what happens?

>>17995084

Jews stealing money for other jews, what else is new

OPEN BORDERS LETS LET EVERYONE IN AND GIVE THEM HEALTHCARE!!! THIS CERTAINLY WONT RUIN THE QUALITY OF SERVICE PERMANENTLY GUYS!! BASH THE FASH THX BAI

>>17995135
the number of hyper stubborn and selfish morons like you is quite small, so it wouldn't matter. most people will see the benefit of working together for a better society

>>17995111
Except people who actually work for a living depend on taxes so they don't succumb to market failures. unless you are expecting people to default on their credit to put out their house fire. The only people who avoid taxes are borg and petty borg faggots.

>>17995148
Your credit goes lower which is critical to buying houses, cars, apartments, etc.

>>17994915
That's literally what Singapore did, ultra capitalism nation that had high flexibility to quickly become authoritarian and close their borders plus allocate resources to health systems. If anything this is a proof that the key point here is flexibility. US lack it in times of crisis when other countries don't

>>17995135
If you own property and make a living off that property, yeah, you do live off the backs of other people in one way or another, so, if you don't want to work get fucked. No one needs to support you. You live in a system right now that allows you to be a parasite you fool. You are just too blind to understand it.

>>17995148
Depends how much you owe. In my experience, a few points off your credit score & collection calls

all these dumb faggots are just reiterating Reagon era talking points from the 1980s. "government is the problem. get government out of the way!!" lol. you're literally boomer reaganites, you realize this right

>>17995171
How is this different from the communist Chinese system of "social" control?

>>17995183
No, capitalism cannot exist with out peoples labor. That is the issue. No labor means no profits and no profits means everything is worthless now.

>>17993942
Based and redpilled

>>17994005
Bluepilled and fag

>>17995186
he's not a parasite! he earned that!!! HE EARNED THE RIGHT TO LEECH OFF OTHERS WORK YOU BASTARD

>>17995171
Medical debt cannot effect your credit. I have never paid a medical bill in my life and my credit is 600

>>17995224
Lol, a spade is a spade, man.

>>17995106
>we have a system the distributes based on profitability not need.
It's the same thing. If you need something, you pay for it, hence the business profits. If someone needs something, you get off your ass and provide it, and you profit.
>we're all gonna die anyway, so might as well steal from the rich at gunpoint and use their cash to reward the lazy/stupid who provide nothing

>>17995204
My credit score doesn't get fucked because I said mean things about the Republican Party.

>>17995206
>what is the theory of subjetive value
Dud, you are literally saying the same bullshit that Karl Marx said a hundred year ago. Profit does NOT correlate to labor, they are separate entities

>>17995247
It's not the same thing. Distribution base don profitability means dumping tons of food that went spoiled because you can't sell it so you have to just chuck it in the skip. Distribution based on need means each person gets what they need to eat and food doesn't just sit on empty shelves.

"In capitalism fool shelves empty cabinets. In communism, full cabinets empty shelves."

>>17995282
full****

>>17993322
>>17994938
>>17995037
>dude you don't deserve to survive the pandemic if you were fired because of the pandemic
Let's see how this will play out for you guys

>>17995186
You have to play like the jew if you want to be financially secure and have a good cushion.

>>17995282
History shows that in communism, you have empty cabinets and empty shelves

>>17995032
>Free markets are just as idealistic as communism
>1930-1980 USSR is equally preferable to 1870-1920 USA

The beautiful thing that history teaches us, is that whether the next government is capitalist or communist, the only thing waiting for socialist revolutionaries is a body bag.

>>17995236
>>17995171
So I simply move my assets into cash. The way I see it, is that if you got corona, it could devastate you financially, so why not just never pay instead of bankrupting yourself?

>>17995282
And also by the way this doesn't make sense. If a business's goal is profits, why would they overstock their shelves knowing they'll just be throwing it all away? Wouldn't businesses try to stock according to how much they sell on average, for maximum profit?

>>17995351
>1930-1980 USSR is equally preferable to 1870-1920 USA
Who are you quoting? This is a very poor attempt at strawman.

>>17995351
USSR had almost empty shops just like now when there were no crises, how would it look like if it had a corona showing up? I really don't see ye olde communism fixing anything.

>>17995351
The only way for you people to defend capitalism is to rely on old bones that no one argues for or advocates anymore.

I have my old fake ID and I'm not going to identify They can throw me in jail for felony fraud for all I care if I can keep my money.

>>17995323
Well that depends on your definition of communism.

>>17995056
>Human needs are endless, resources are not
Except it's not just human needs. Capitalism creates tunnel vision because of the profit motive. However there are other important considerations that have to be taken into account such as environmental protection, climate change mobilization, biodiversity conservation, and R&D that aren't necessarily profitable even though they are worthwhile pursuits. Also, it's good that you bring that up because Capitalism requires constant growth yet resources are finite. Which one wins?
>If a product is offered but it's useless to me, why would I buy it?
And if an item is needed why would it be offered unless it was profitable.
>If someone spent years developing a service, why should they give it away for free?
Like the development of Linux or Wikipedia contributors LOL
Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGKTXtfK1OI
People aren't motivated to do everything for money. This is pure ideology.
>First create infinite resources, then we can talk about fulfilling all needs for everyone.
This is a strawman. It's not about "fulfilling all needs" but rather changing the reason for work away from profit.

>>17995375
I can't argue with someone who doesn't understand economics. They don't buy and sell because they want to fill up their shelves. They do it because it is profitable. But if no one buys their product then they will liquidate it to turn a profit. Some times that means just writing it off and getting a discount on a return price and then tossing it out. There is always going to be an amount of shrinkage. Like, this shouldn't have to be explained to you.

>>17995500
>995500

Check em

>>17995500
What am I not understanding? If a company fails to sell perishable merchandise, or somehow gets rid of it to get a discount, they still lose money and it's bad for them.
If we're talking about non-perishables, they can just leave it on the shelf until it's sold.
I don't see the waste you're talking about here, seems to me like businesses competing for profit is the best way to minimize waste, because each business is responsible for managing their own balance sheets and maximizing their allocation of resources.
And even if they do have to waste a little bit, isn't it better to ensure that everyone has access to what they need, when they need it? Rather than understock the shelves and only the quickest people to shop are able to feed themselves?

>>17993326
>spends more money than any other country on healthcare but doesn't have universal coverage
>meds cost 4x times more in the US because the government isn't the single payer so it doesn't really negociate prices and big pharma is free to fuck their clients in the ass
>only in US people go bankrupt for medical bills
>every family has or will have to treat a serious medical condition
>the entire system of insurance companies related to healthcare is a parasitic entity with the only goal of milking Americans dry while providing no useful service

Burgers just like to get fucked in the ass

>>17995413
When they're in the process of getting BTFO they fall back to their boomer Cold War propaganda

>>17995570
just wanted to say i appreciate your efforts. all this hyper capitalism and fuck everyone but me and mine attitude just makes no sense to me. sometimes i think some people are paid to do it because why else would they

>>17993326
money isnt real

>>17995667
why don't you look up stats on how much food America wastes every year. apparently muh free market isn't working in this sector.

>>17995667
You have a very poor understanding of real world business, and have way too much theory vision tunnel. Big companies don't even compete for profit anymore, they do it for market space, even if they lose money they prefer to monopolize their market because they can leverage themselves with debt ad infinitum plus rollovers ( or that's what they think of, rollovers aren't infinite)

>>17995857
And that's the cardinal sin of capitalism: Debt

>>17995875
We live in a debt-based economy anyways.

>>17995742
It's only that way because Americans decided that convenience was more valuable to them than cheaper food, so they were willing to pay a premium to have their food ready to eat very quickly. But to have such a convenience, food has to be constantly made and thrown out so that there is always fresh food ready.
Should the US experience a famine, food prices would rise (presuming the govt doesn't get involved and price control), and businesses would not be able to exercise this practice of wasting food anymore.
I think it's quite commonly known that Americans are not exactly dying of hunger. During this time of abundance, communist North Korea went through a famine that killed a large part of their population, and the hills were barren of grass because the people had eaten it all.
I know people believe that there is a middle ground where food doesn't have to be wasted, and yet we can still all enjoy the benefits of abundance, but I have yet to see a country where this is the case.

I'm not going to spend almost 6 BTC because some Chink eat a bat soup.

>>17995857
The only reason they can do that is because the banks are all corrupt in the US. I don't advocate for corruption or crony capitalism.
How am I the one with theory tunnel-vision when communist idealists only use theory in arguments, and no real world examples of the success of communism?

>>17993266
So she must take a loan and pay it off

>>17995949
So debt-slavery?

>>17995973
What part of 'Capitalism' don't you understand? Money rules, and those who control money, control everyone.
As long as bankers are in charge, you are a debt-slave to them. The very dollars you are busy collecting are merely units of debt that someone owes to someone else.
There was one man who tried to break this curse, but you probably have been taught to hate him.

>>17996050
It's like that because of human behavior over time. I really doubt that people from the 1700s-1800s foresee this form of capitalism.

This should be very easy to see especially after the 2008 recession because nobody wanted to actually recover. Almost everything is debt-based and you have fucking banks and big corps using debt to pay off debt. I genuinely don't know it's just boomers being fagtrons or it's been a century-long fiasco.

Americans love medical debt. Even Democrats go out of their way to avoid medicare for all and even vote a senile guy with no chance of winning because they are afraid of free-to-use healthcare.

The belief in America is that if most of healthcare costs goes to insurance companies then it makes healthcare better.

>>17993326
That is idiotic. The cost isn't anywhere near that in developed countries.

>>17996093
There was a war fought over this. The people in charge very much want you to keep paying off debt with debt, so that you always are obligated to pay them yet again. Keeps you working, instead of having what you need and providing for you and yours.

>>17993233
That's most likely after insurance.

>>17996228
Only because those governmentssubsidize it, and then those companies charge more in the US anyway. In 2018, the average healthcare cost for a US citizen was around $5000. For the average German, it was around $4000 (and that's because the government ran the program at a $3 euro deficit.

The problem with US healthcare isn't that it's not socialized, but rather that the hospitals are allowed to run by charging for each component of care, rather than stating an upfront cost for treatment. On top of that, medicare prices are also not negotiated directly, so those companies can charge whatever they want and uncle Sam just eats the difference with a smile.

The only countries where socialized medicine functions well are those like the Scandinavian countries our the Arab Gulf, where they have massive resource wealth in comparison to their populations. Countries like Germany, China, and Venezuela flounder in deficit while their citizens pay as much in taxes as an American would, anyway.

>>17996684
$3 BILLION euro deficit, that was meant to be.

>>17996684
They tried to push forward a law that forces hospitals to shoe their prices upfront before treatment but it was blocked by a judge because it was "unconstitutional"

>>17993228
she chose to live in a republican state that dropped Obamacare.

her loss. Don't move to republican states. Or move enough of your liberal friends to vote the republicans out of business.

>>17996684
uhm it's 5k in germany vs 9k in the US

>>17996733
And? I disagree with that ruling, but socialization is not the answer. Other countries are evidence of this, if you look at how the people pay for the care in taxes (and whether the program is run at a deficit).

>>17996781
I didnt mention about socializing. It's shitty that an attempt to make hospitals more transparent was blocked.

>>17996769
Wrong, that number includes the federal budget for Medicare which is then simply divided by # of people, and not the out-of-pocket cost, which is why I mentioned how the fact that companies can just charge the program whatever they like is a contributing factor. The government over-subsidizes it and this leads to insane pricing.

In other words, it's the same system as in Germany, minus the price-controls. Both are still ineffective compared to a free market.

>>17996684
No, not because governments subsidise it. It is free to use for people. I am talking about what the government pays.

Medicine that costs Americans $400 per bottle costs the Norwegian government less than $1 per bottle.

>>17993943
But then it bites you in the ass when these people refuse to go to the hospital and spread illnesses to other people. A healthy population is a strong population and a thriving population.

Dumbass.

>>17995885
>real capitalism has never been tried

>>17996604
not how deductibles work

>>17993228
So you're saying her life isn't worth that?

>>17996860
>NOOO YOU CANT USE STATE POWER TO NEGOTIATE DRUG PRICES. THATS SOCIALISM

>>17993322
>just pay profit-maximizing corporations $5k per year, and then pay another $5k per year in deductibles if you actually get sick.

>>17997005
This. Also
>haha oops that 5k covered calendar year 2020 not calendar year 2021we're gpnna need another 5l
>haha oops coronavirus is an act of god this isnt covered
>haha oops well even if it was covered we arent going to approve you for a respirator we have determined it is not necessary
>haha oops it is necessary? well you have to get a note from our in-network doctor
>haha well the doctor said it is approved but the hospital you were dropped off at while unconcious isnt in our network and no we can not pay the services already administered to you
>haha by the way since you filed these claims we have to raise your premium, and by the way if you contact us one more time we will drop you.