/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17903532
I'm really thinking about buying, I don't see the US letting Boeing fail.

>>17903553
If they're forced to bail them out they'll still wipe out shareholders like they did to GM.

>Capitalism is fine until we bail out companies because "too big to fail"
Yeah fuck this. Let is crash and burn. It is part of capitalism.
t.classic liberal

>>17903553
>>17903576

im thinking of buying sub $50.

but i still say let them fail.

>>17903553
>I don't see the US letting Boeing fail.
i don't see Trump letting this US Flagship go bankrupt.. but i am not certain, Boeing has been borrowing money to buy back its own stock, literally borrowing money to inflate its own value, which only benefited share holders and the people in the top that got bonus' based on its stock price.
If Boeing gets bailed out, what about Ford or Exon? or any of the hundred other companies that may face bankruptcy in the coming month..

>>17903576
can you link to some readings on the GM bailout?

>>17903576
is right
Saving Boeing ≠ Blessing the Bagholders

>>17903635
shit aint hitting 50

>>17903635
>>17903584
I'm afraid they will bail them out. There are 2 major companies that build planes, and China is just creating the third. If the Chinese "market" alone starts using Chinese planes, western aviation is trouble. The western countries won't be the ones setting the regulations, standards, etc.
Plus the US military is a large customer of Boeing I have heard. They will survive.

>>17903553
While the US government will not let the company disappear, the stock can most certainly go to zero. The company is then restructured and new equity is floated.

That said, I do not believe the equity is going to zero.

>>17903711
>The western countries won't be the ones setting the regulations, standards, etc.
you blew that already by subverting the FAA to the point of fucking uselessness:
>CRASH
>Boeing is safe to Fly!
>BANG
>Boeing is safe to Fly!
>Chinks: Enough

>>17903711
>. If the Chinese "market" alone starts using Chinese planes, western aviation is trouble.
>Literal state funded airline manufacturer
>Not being blocked by the WTO for illegal state support
In addition
>People trusting a Chinese plane.

>>17903744
>people trusting an FAA approved murican plane

>>17903754
I am a euro, but people will trust even the 737 more than the first CCP plane.

>>17903771
or buy Airbus, it just werks.
as anon above noted, chinks only need to win the trust of other chinks for Boeing to be in trouble. And given a dangerously corrupt FAA and Donald 'Chinese Virus' as President, who would blame chink airlines for shopping at home instead

I will buy the dip of Boeing anyway
Europoor here

>>17903999
it's not a dip, the company is literally going bankrupt. it will go below 100$ today

>>17903982
>or buy Airbus, it just werks.
It unironically does. The safest planes of all time compared to other manufactures.

For the rest, >>17903744
The WTO and other nations are not just going to pass le epic fully state funded CCP plane

>>17903532
Is this bullish for Suterusu and China in general?

>>17903532
Who /puts/ here

>>17903532
what is this pattern called?

No, invest in Airbus. Their stock is holding up better despite a worse situation in Europe because they have much better fundamentals. And whatever happens to Boeing, bailout or not, it will emerge weaker and Airbus stronger from it.

>>17903532
premined shitcoin

>>17904028
it was 30$ in 2008
i dont want this shit for 100$

>>17903668
Can you explain?
Isn't a bailout basically the government buying a shitload of shares on a loan? Which Boeing then buys back with interest when they're in clearer weather?

>>17903532
>b-b-but muh superior white technology
>bring manufacturing away from china!
>bring manufacturing back to America
>maga!!!

>>17904758
yes. in 2008 the govt bought securities

>>17904820

So how does that not bless the shareholder?
If they buy a lot of shares, their price goes up?

>>17904788
>Le epic CCP state funded plane
Yeah, there is still Airbus chink.

>>17904758
>bail out Boeing
>take it back in fines
>?
>PROFIT
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=gm+shareholders+screwed

>>17904849
>$20 million
Is this really massive to a company who is too busy out sourcing vital code to pajeets and removes redundant systems to save costs on putting an extra sensor in, causing hundreds of deaths?

>>17903532
The /biz/ discord link is discord gg xFuuSTZ

We got 600 members and are growing, get in here bros
based

>>17904900
I doubt is $1000 dollars per death desu
idk why they even bother

>>17904849
So Boeing will churn out billions of new shares thereby making the 100 shares Johnny from the bar holds worthless..

>>17904940
>and the governemnt pay the fines with the bailout!
fucking ludicrous
>>17904965
or similar, yup

>>17904940
I propose instead of fines, we just line up their top execs against a wall and shoot them (before throwing them out of a plane) to be desu, should help them think twice about safety.

>>17905016
Or put them on a 737 with complicit pilots not informed about MCAS

>>17905016
>their top execs
oh, them boys already jumped
with GOLDEN parachutes, of course
Boeing's near poster child for everything fucked up in America. As such, bailout and business as usual almost guaranteed

>>17905192
I never said that even those who left aren't also eligible for rapid onset lead poisoning :^)

>>17903711
>Western planes
>Built by Pajeets to save costs.

it will close at 92 today

>>17905239
This is what should happen. Also civil asset forfeiture.

>>17905266
At this point you can say that about every western company.

>>17905266
Airbus doesn't hire pajeets

A speculative bubble being challenged and collapsing to proper valuation is not the end of the world.

>>17905492
Worse, it hires eastern europeans.

>>17904664
This. Boeing just seems mismanaged from top to bottom.

>>17905566
>eastern europeans.
>legacy: Soviet Union
>poo-in-loos
>Legacy: being colonized

Kek, Eastern Euro's are 10 times better, albeit still shite

>>17904592
a plane crash

>>17905566
Airbus literally doesn't have plants in eastern Europe. Most of their manufacturing is based in France, Germany and Spain.

You guys are fucking clueless when it comes to airplanes but you're making financial decisions like you work in the aerospace industry. Boeing, mismanagement aside, was not the reason the Ethiopian and Indonesian 737s crashed. Those pilots were fucking stupid and the airlines were corrupt.

But nah you guys seem to know what you're talking about. Forget about those stabilizer trim cutout switches and decades old standard procedures.

>>17905724
You don't need to have a clue about airplanes to understand how the market reacts to a bunch of Boeing planes going down. Because the market is just as clueless about the inner workings of aerospace engineering.

>>17905724
>Those pilots were fucking stupid and the airlines were corrupt.
>Looks at any mainstream or industry reporting on Boeing's failing internal safety culture and even internal emails talking about the MCAS and design flaws

Fuck off shill

>>17905724
Nice try JIDF

We airbus noaw

>>17905820
Nah you're still wrong. You literally can't tell me that the pilots did the right thing. The planes they were supposed to be in charge of started doing something unexpected and they didn't even pull the throttle back from the takeoff thrust setting. That's like you driving down the highway when your tire bursts and you don't take your foot off the gas.

Do you even know what the MCAS was designed to do or under what configuration it was intended to activate? Do you know about the stab trim cutout switches? Stay mad

>>17905817
>bunch of planes
>two complex modern airliners piloted by undertrained crews flying for corrupt foreign airlines
lol k

>>17905933
>boeing shill calling their unfortunate customers corrupt
shoo cunt

>>17905933
You're missing the point. Boeing isn't on trial in the market. That doesn't mean people won't dump their shit - which they are doing.

>>17905933
>MCAS was designed to do or under what configuration it was intended to activate? Do you know about the stab trim cutout switches? Stay mad
>Bruv do you even know these irrelavant details that does not absolve Boeing of shitty coding, not training pilots appropriately, miscommunication, failing internal safety protocols and mismanagement by the top leaders

Fuck off shill

>>17904592
MCAS

>>17903532
>Can't build an airliner
>Can't build a tanker
>Let's give them tens of billions of free money
????

>>17905933
If the Boeing 737 is safe and it was entirely down to the pilots, why is it still grounded? If the plane was 100% safe and it was ONLY due to the pilots, then why is it grounded in every country?

>>17905993
>>17906030
Wow you guys are fucking braindead. Yeah, someone that is refuting your idiotic Boeing hate on 4chan is truly an employee of the company. It's like fucking clockwork.

>>17906117
Did you know that China was the first country to call for the grounding of the 737 MAX, even though they had nothing to do with either of the accident flights? I wonder why China would want to have one of the US's major companies hobbled in the middle of a huge trade war HMMMMMMMM

Come on you guys are smarter than this

>>17906223
>make planes that crash
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THEY ARE SAFE YOU HAVE TO DIE FIRST BEFORE DOING ANYTHING NOOOOO

In terms of pure engineering Boeing and Airbus are both really trashy, Airbus has way more security issues but Boeing is getting fined and regulated for security issues they've done little about since the late 60s on the MAX. (Triple Seven's are actually good planes though)
I wouldn't invest in either based on actual quality of planes, only in terms of their market dominance and military contracts.

>>17906055
Lmao

>>17906270
Okay yeah keep it up you mouthbreathing retards

>>17906277
>security issues they've done little about since the late 60s on the MAX
Which are ?????????

>>17906223
China was the first to do it, but every other country followed suit because the plane is just not safe. If it was safe, it'd be flying again by now, especially considering Trump's vocal support of the company.

>>17906223
>Yeah, someone that is refuting your idiotic Boeing hate on 4chan is truly an employee of the company. It's like fucking clockwork.
See you never talk about the contents of the arguments, you are only deflecting and moving the goal post.

Here are some articles why Boeing in its current form is shite:

>https://www.businessinsider.nl/boeing-737-max-timeline-history-full-details-2019-9?international=true&r=US
>https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/business/boeing-737-crashes.html
>https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/09/boeing-737-max-internal-messages
>FAA updates and orders: https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

Fuck off shill

>>17904664

Absolutely.

Boeing relies heavily on new 737 orders and they scrapped the whole MAX production line, so Airbus is absolutely not going to be able to keep up with new orders and deliveries of their competing planes.

What's the best way to own Airbus? EADS on the NYSE?

>>17906322
Since you literally don't understand why the planes crashed you can't honestly believe that the planes are unsafe. You're just parroting mainstream media talking points like everyone else has throughout this entire saga.

No one wants to admit that they just don't understand airplanes, they'd rather act like they know better

>>17906277
>Airbus and Boeing are trash
t. bat eating chinese subhuman

>>17906353
HAHAHAHAHA

Holy fucking SHIT you are so fucking dumb. Linking to a bunch of mainstream media articles all parroting the same bullshit. I bet you think MCAS activated and the nose of the plane just pointed at the ground while the pilots desperately ran through the proper checklists and standard procedures.

LOL goddamn it's so predictable.

>>17906319
>Which are ?????????
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/06/12/2019-12322/airworthiness-directives-the-boeing-company-airplanes
"The FAA is adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for certain The Boeing Company Model 737-600, -700, -700C, -800, -900, and -900ER series airplanes. This AD was prompted by reports of cracks in the skin and a certain chord at three fastener locations common to the drag link assembly at the chord. This AD requires repetitive inspections of the skin under the drag link assembly for any cracks, and applicable on-condition actions. The FAA is issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-boeing/u-s-regulator-seeks-to-fine-boeing-5-4-million-for-defective-parts-on-737-max-planes-idUSKBN1Z92DA
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said on Friday it was seeking to fine Boeing Co $5.4 million, alleging it failed to prevent the installation of defective parts on 737 MAX airplanes.
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said on Friday it was seeking to fine Boeing Co $5.4 million, alleging it failed to prevent the installation of defective parts on 737 MAX airplanes."

>>17906408
>HAHAHA I'VE GOT NO ARGUMENTS
Fuck off shill

>>17906372
>>17906408
You're still missing the fucking point. It doesn't actually matter how much Boeing is at fault, what matters is that people believe they are more than they're not. And that results in people not wanting to fly with Boeing planes. And that results in people not buying Boeing planes. And that results in the company tanking.
This is not (necessarily) an engineering issue, it's an economic one.

>>17903643
Mass nationalization until the United Coomunist States of Amerimutt get meme'd into existence.
You know it's coming, it's the NWO plan since decades, bill cooper predicted it would end up exactly like this.

>>17906373
Listen faggot, i'm saying you can invest in them and make mad dosh but don't do it based on the quality of their shite products. (barring the 777's)
Boeing's old trashpiles are getting regulated for a reason and A320s have reliabilty in terms of MONTHS and have to be rebuilt regularly to keep flying.

>>17906465
>I don't know what the fuck the stab trim cutout switches are
>I'll call him a shill lol that always works
Keep it up you fucking retard

>>17906453
Care to tell me how either of those things impacted the hundreds of daily flights people were taking around the world on 737 MAXs without crashing and dying for months before the accident flights?

>>17906484
I get that. My point is that it's not that fucking hard to understand that the foreign, inexperienced pilots working for corrupt, foreign airlines were by and large the reasons those planes crashed. This whole 737 MAX ordeal has shown me how fucking stupid the majority of people are and how willing they are to just regurgitate misinformation about things they don't understand and didn't even fucking care about 6 months before.

>>17906520
If a company integral to the operation of the military is so dumb and greedy they don't save any money at all and instead just pump billions of profit into inflating their own value with buybacks and even go into debt to finance this inflation during good years, they deserve to fail and get bought out for pennies by the government

Stock buybacks were illegal for like the first fifty years of the SEC's operation and only done away with under reagan

>>17906576
>>I don't know what the fuck the stab trim cutout switches are
>Once again moving the goalpost, not reacting to any arguments

Fuck off shill

Which ticket to buy for Airbus lads? EADSY or EADSF?

>>17906576
>before the accident flights?
I said fuckall about the crashes you're conflating other discussions together.
I'm saying the engineering quality and security of said planes are shitty even compared to later designs within the same company.

>>17906604
Lol okay so you don't know what I'm talking about or why it's pertinent to the 737 MAX crashes. Got it.

>>17906635
>shitty
Lol no but if you want to arbitrarily believe this then that's fine for you. Two incredibly complex modern airliners being crashed by inexperienced, foreign pilots working for corrupt, foreign airlines is not indicative of all Boeing aircraft being "shitty". The thousands upon thousands of uneventful flights on Boeing airplanes proves you wrong but you don't seem to care about that part.

>>17906585
>Stock buybacks were illegal for like the first fifty years of the SEC's operation and only done away with under reagan

Stock buybacks aren't bad on paper, they give the chance for the company to go private again. Its the financing the buybacks on debt that is Looney Toons tier retarded.

>>17906690
>arbitrarily believe this
I believe it because it's the opinions of engineering friends who work on their airframes and lament Boeing and Airbus becoming dominant over Douglas and Lockheed's superior planes.

>>17906654
>Deflecting
Fuck off shill

>>17903744
>>Literal state funded airline manufacturer
>>Not being blocked by the WTO for illegal state support

Not banned unless they start exporting big time. As it is only Chinese airlines fly Chengdu. And no one cares about Sukhoi.

>>17906776
I love this phenomenon where someone calls out a "shill" but then literally refuses to engage what the "shill" is saying. It's almost like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and are just mad. LOL.

>>17906761
>my friends say Boeing is bad because reasons
Literally no one would be talking about this shit if TWO planes hadn't crashed in FOREIGN COUNTRIES under CORRUPT FOREIGN AIRLINES. Why is this whole thing so hard for people to grasp.

>>17906844
>Not banned unless they start exporting big time.
What do you think their plans are? China wants to be the US 2: revanchist ethnocentric electric boogaloo

>>17906872
>Literally no one would be talking about this shit
t. Midwit market thinker.
They've been complaining about their shit quality since the late 90s.

>>17906872
>I love this phenomenon where someone calls out a "shill" but then literally refuses to engage what the "shill" is saying.
>Shill shows no self-awereness

Fuck off shill

>>17906939
Plans are irrelevant. It's like pricing in the next 1000 years of Tesla earnings because muh tech company. Oops, 60 % drop.

>>17906984
>It's like pricing in the next 1000 years of Tesla earnings because muh tech company.
That's a strawman, and it is pretty obvious China is ramping up to have their own, exporting, plane manufacturer. Why do you think that, even though ASML exists, they are trying to build their own dedicated chip manufacturing industry? They want to create their own strategic industry and export it first to asia and then the world against dumping prices. Why? Because it is a literal National Socialist state.

>>17904592

>>17907094
>ASML exists, they are trying to build their own dedicated chip manufacturing industry
Because of national security. ASML may be European, but the Europeans as a whole are part of the American Empire and do as they're told.

>>17903532
>>17903982

>The Virgin Boeing vs The Chad Lockheed

>>17907208
>but the Europeans as a whole are part of the American Empire and do as they're told.
>tdont know about Europe

In all seriousness, most of the time Europe's interests align with the US's. Not all the time though, GDPR was a direct challenge to the US's hegemony over the internet

I wouldn't buy any Boeing shares until they state whether or not the dividend will be cut. It would be shocking if a cash-strapped company didn't cut their dividend and a dividend cut always means a share price drop.

>>17907246
And the US in turn banned them from having an independent foreign policy(Iran deal) and energy policy (Nordstream 2).

>>17904592
The MAX

So many fucking lefties on this board allowing politics to pollute their judgment calls re: the market. Bailout is probably coming today or tomorrow.

>>17907293
>foreign policy(Iran deal)
This is not true, EU still has trade with Iran
>energy policy (Nordstream 2).
This has also major concerns with Russia

In turn, the EU has put major fines and new tax rules on tech companies from the US and restrictions on Boeing. The statement that Europe is somekind of extenion of the US is just wrong. Also, going back to the original subject, China is not doing it so much out of muh national security then for their ambition to become the world's new top dog (which will never happen due to the nature of their state and global shift).

>>17907392
>fucking lefties
>Bailout
>not a lefty reaction
lel let the shit company crash and burn like it is supposed to.

>>17907439
I don't think you know what an actual leftist is. They're not liberals. Leftists absolutely want to let these incompetent megacorporations crash and burn and then just have the government buy them out for pennies once they hit the bottom.

Republicans and neoliberals have the NOOOOOOO NOT MY STOCKS TOO BIG TO FAIL PLEASE BAILOUT BAILOUT mentality.

>>17907569
>leftists are not liberals
absolute lol.
any "leftie" board fronts as commies right up until the second a non-socialliberal who objects to mass-immigration and supports white working class families shows up then they take off their masks right quick.

>>17907803
that's why /leftpol/ nazbol chads > /leftypol/ trannyfags

>>17907569
Public opinion doesn't match what you said. Most people including most Dems support bailing a perceived American manufacturer like Boeing. I guess you would just say most Democrats are not leftists anyway.

That's why it will happen, and that's the only reason this shit matters to /biz/.

>>17904485
app?

>>17907094
Lol no they wanted to buy from ASML. I worked in this industry and Chinese customers were content to continue to be consumers from global suppliers of high-end chips and be a domestic supplier of mid and low-level chips. That changed when ZTE and Huawei were export banned and they tried to force every country in the world to go along with it.

>>17908018
"they" being the US. Obviously the whole country of China, it's businesses, scientists and investors, not just big bad XI JINPING aren't going to accept that they just have a ceiling on technology because mr Trump said no.

>>17907569

Correction: Not "Please bail out."
"Will bail out."

>>17908073
The US leadership is delusional. They honest to god thing Chinese people can't invent shit because they don't love the NYT. They really think that every country in the world just loves the hell out of US imperialism and does what they say because they like them, and not because they have gunboats in their waters lol. The most aggressive and delusional wing of the US polity will win, and they will take over China policy, and it will fail in such a dramatic and spectacular way that it will probably cause a world war.

>>17908135
China actually can’t invent shit though. They can reverse engineer shit and produce sub-standard knock-offs but their system is nowhere near as geared to innovate as the US.

>>17903553
It won't, especially now that the defense supply act was reactivated