/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17884602
Austrian or Chicago school?

>>17884602
Nice picture. People who get excited over politics tend to be deranged. That's pretty much how I view them.

Good goy.

Nope, social leftists are cancer

>>17884626

lolbertarians being the worst offenders desu

>>17884602
>>17884626
Fucking based. Politifags are subhuman sheep.

>start out as a commie cause my poor people
>become nazi after discovering who really controls the economy
>randomly buy shitcoins in 2016
>oh boy
now i'm an ancap

>>17884602

So you got dumber???

>>17884624
Chicago

>study economics
>become reactionary
Anyone else?

>>17884602
No. A certain amount of regulation, as well as a specific kind, is needed to prevent the degeneracy of humans from destroying us.

Unfortunately we have too much freedom in some areas, too little in others, and the whole thing is quite frankly causing everything to go ever more tits up as the years go by.

>study economics
>realize that the STATE enforces private property law and is required to stabilize markets in the event of war or disease etc
>realize state policy matters
>become invested in politics
Ancap meme died in 2012.

>>17884689

>Jewish economics

Yikes

>>17884689
Bruh...

>>17884746
Right now the state is destroying the economy with the excuse of protecting people from a disease.

>>17884602

I became a supply-side economist

>be a nationalist that hates jews and (((bankers)))
>study economics
>realize that the jews actually have a point
>become a neoliberal

People who believe in state-enforced regulations and defense of property should move to my country ASAP to see how that works well.

By the way, what the fuck happened? /biz/ was mostly apolitical, with an Ancap minority. Now it's all /leftypol/ in every thread. When did we get raided?

>>17884602
>Study economics and politics
>Become Marxist-Leninist

>>17884689
austrian is based
chicago is cringe
keynesianism is dangerous
marxism is for drooling special individuals

>>17884806
You’re a fuckign retard. In ancap world, with no state intervention
>virus spreads at 100x the rate
>economy collapses
>riots and general anarchy

>>17884823
This is what public education is designed to do to you

>>17884864
C- GPA

>>17884806
The economy started crashing in the US in February, before any real steps were being taken to mitigate the effects of corona. the economy started tanking partially BECAUSE no real steps were being taken to mitigate the effects of corona.

>>17884602
BA in Econ. I became libertarian, for a while.

>be a painter
>become anti-semite

>study niggers
>become ethnonationalist

Anyone else?

>>17884902
Do you actually believe this virus is that bad?
It is not just a flu, sure. But to what extent?

>>17884602
>study economics
>become keynesian

>>17884882
>marxism is for drooling special individuals
https://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/eea97.pdf

based lolberts killing boomers

>>17884966
The only right answer.

>>17884966

>>17884626
I literally don't even vote lmao. Fuck niggers and kikes

>>17884675
>become nazi after discovering who really controls the economy
If you became a nazi after that then you don't know who actually controls it.

>>17884602
>study economics
>become rich

>>17884916
>Gives the best analysis of the Capitalist system
Heh, nothing personal
>>17884806
Anarcho-Capitalism is a fantasy. Capitalism requires a state to defend private property rights. In real anarchism there is no private property. Ancaps took the name for themselves.

>>17885195
a state is absolutely not required to defend private property rights at all
read The Law by Bastiat and study up on decentralized and polycentric law

>>17884902
Stop seeings things in terms of "only government can solve this". I am not even asking for you to become Ancap, just that this sort of thought is dangerous and makes you prone to manipulation.

As for your actual answer,
>virus spreads at 100x the rate
Anarchocapitalism is all about property rights, and consequently the right to exclude certain people from your property. Coronavirus is known for being abnormally infectious (albeit with lower mortality) when compared to other similar diseases, so why would a property owner allow a person with a highly infectious disease to fool around their property? Would you like to be forced to have someone with the Kung Flu (or any airborne disease really) anywhere near your house? It's what the government does.

>economy collapses
This collapse was not caused *only* by the virus. Some people like to say that this is all temporary because "fundamentals haven't changed", but that is pointless if the fundamentals are shit. And we (i.e western economies) have been living off extremely cheap credit and BRRRRRR for 10 years, this is the true cause for the undergoing economical collapse. Monetary policy is decided by the government (or people with very close ties with the government), so capitalism isn't to blame here.

>riots
Property rights require the means to protect property. I'm talking weapons.

>and general anarchy
That's the idea.

>>17884602
Politicfags are incels, RealPolitik-GeopolitCHAD are bosses

>>17884736
examples of areas with excess & deficient freedom?

>>17884823
From what point do you go from, open borders and globalization is good for trade and increasing living standards, to I don't care about history, religion, ethnicity, culture, tradition and could not care less that my children become mutts while living in globohomo totalitarian hellhole?

>>17885195
>without a state I wouldn't be able to own my house or my toothbrush

Why don't you come by and I show you how I need no state to defend my private property tankie?

>>17885195
>Ancaps took the name for themselves.
Only after your people took "liberalism" to mean "social-democracy".

>>17884602
based pic but you know libertarian is literally the bottom side of that colorgraph right?

>>17885333

And what about when 200 niggers come?

Oh? You’ll form some kind of protective society with your neighbors? Sounds like a government to me...hahaha

>>17885232

You know Thunderdome is just a movie, right?

>>17884823
>neoliberalism
Not this bullshit again.
You do realize this is a term invented by the Left that means "anyone I dislike", right? It does not mean you support capitalism. And it also has nothing to do with the American concept of being a liberal (supporting post-birth abortion, arresting people for misgendering, etc).

>>17884602
If the virus spread was Trumps fault, then why is it spreading in other countries?

Checkmate, Dems. Trump just got reelected.

>>17885425
>forming a voluntary, local protective society is the same as massive, obligatory state theft

>>17885324
capitalist jews don't care whether or not races mutt eachother, you could stay segregated by choice with open borders and traditional by choice surrounded by other cultures and we'd just find a way to make money off of it. it isn't the Jews necessarily but the political majority that wants to mutt themselves, and we just make money off of them.

>>17884602
>masters in econ
>natsoc.

>>17885453

Neoliberals are easy to identify. They are the far right, “paying taxes is communism” trickle down retards who have crashed the West for the last 40 years after we enjoyed a golden age of capitalism regulated by the government and buffeted by programs like the New Deal. Neoliberalism is an attempt to return to the gilded age of the 1800s, a smash and grab power play by the rich.

>>17885495
Interesting. I would like to hear your reasoning.

>>17884626
>>17884657
>people who care about society at large are deranged
Lmao how do people like you exist?

>>17885479

>this overarching, collective body that enforces property rights TOTALLY isn’t a government guize

>>17884602
This is really the only take you need.

>>17885514
>Neoliberals are easy to identify.
Okay. Name some neoliberal authors for me then, please.

>>17884823
t. leftypol retard

>>17885519

It’s pretty standard for American conservatives and libertarians desu.

Libertarians, like Marxists, are only good at criticizing other people's ideas and systems.
great example:
>>17885244
>This collapse was not caused *only* by the virus. Some people like to say that this is all temporary because "fundamentals haven't changed", but that is pointless if the fundamentals are shit. And we (i.e western economies) have been living off extremely cheap credit and BRRRRRR for 10 years, this is the true cause for the undergoing economical collapse.
Which is correct
But ask a libertarian what to do to fix it and you'll get advice on how to get into a deep depression and stay there

>>17884966
Based

>>17885565

Milton Friedman
Paul Krugman
Thomas Sowell
Niall Ferguson

>>17885453
You realize that you have no idea what you’re talking about, right?
Neoliberalism = Corporate Democrat
Like Obama, Clinton, or 99% of democrats. Democrats are only considered “left” in the US.

If post birth abortions are a left wing position then is shooting up Walmart a right wing position?

>>17885612
>then is shooting up Walmart a right wing position
This appears to be a violation of property and life.
>post birth abortions are a left wing position
"Your body", your rules, right?

>>17885600

Their greatest strength is that libertarianism is so fractured, they can always claim that other libertarians aren’t them and that their specific brand of libertarianism hasn’t been tried or would work.

>>17885518
The freemarket works really really well at the market level, not at the corporate level. Libertarians like to argue our current oligarchy is the result of government intervention but that isn't true. Monopolies are inevitable in most industries because of economies of scale, the power to influence society through media and the inevitable political power money brings. A few megacorps owning everyone is always the result of unfettered capitalism. Banking in a similar way will conglomerate but im not going to get into that here. Also, autarky is good. Free trade forces your economy to specialize and become a global appendage tailored around producing what you have comparative advantage to produce. You can't structure a healthy society this way. These are just some rambling points its hard to condense a worldview into a post.

>>17885232
>decentralized and polycentric law
It's meme retard. Doesn't exist and never have.

>>17885651

Still better than the libertarian golden age of the 1800s, where children worked 10hrs a day in unsafe conditions for wages in company scrip and got shot by private detectives if they went on strike.

Thank God for the labor movement.

>>17884602
>study a bunch of unscientific bullshit that proved wrong every single fucking time
>not a single law being true
>become libertarian
Seems legit

>>17885632
Brainworms

>fetuses are people
Then why aren’t they in the census? Why dont we have a funeral for a lost pregnancy? Why do pregnant mothers say they have “a baby on the way” instead of a baby?

>>17884602
Yeah same.

Unfortunately a lot of Libertarianism is poisoned by a lot of whackjob Christians who just want muh homsechooling as a cover for their desire for Christian theocracy, they don't really give a fuck about libertarian principles or those come secondary. See: Gary North.

Definitely lean libertarian more than anything else, though.

>>17885610
>Friedman
Monetarist. Son was the founder of utilitarian Ancapism (which is against Rothbardian/Hoppean Ancapism).
>Krugman
Jesus fuck, that's a Keynesian. Defends state intervention in everything.
>Sowell
Leans towards free markets, but mostly writes about culture.
>Ferguson
Boomer/neocon. A Republican if you may.

See? These are all clashing schools of thought. There is no "neoliberalism" as you describe it.

>>17885693
I wasn't arguing in favor of lolbertarianism. The European merchant class gaining power over the aristocracy was the worst thing that ever happened to humanity.

>>17884602
Nassim Taleb is the dude, but I don't know in what school would he be labeled as.

>>17885610
So for you "neoliberalism" is a mixture of Chicago school and Keynesians. At the same time you criticize the New Deal. Interesting.

>>17885707
>Then why aren’t they in the census?
Ask your government, not me.
>Why dont we have a funeral for a lost pregnancy?
I see you never had a close person lose a pregnancy. There is no funeral, but most of the times the parents feel almost like they actually lost a child.
>Why do pregnant mothers say they have “a baby on the way” instead of a baby?
>wordplay justifies baby killing

>>17885612
>Open borders, free healthcare for illegals, confiscate guns, feminism in all positions of power

So right wing bro.

Truth is that neoliberalism IS cultural marxism i.e. it's fucking communism through the backdoor.

>>17885728
>Christian theocracy
That sounds way better than libertarianism.

>>17885693
>companies spend hundreds of billions on PR to look good in the eyes of their customers but they would you use child slave labor to save a couple bucks if there weren't laws against it

This is your brain on socialism

>tfw this book makes both /pol/ and /leftypol/ seethe
Was it based?

>>17885875

Not “would”. Did. This all happened.

>>17885453
a modified form of liberalism tending to favor free-market capitalism.
"social and political issues surrounding neoliberalism"

>>17885728
Christian theocracy would be the fucking dream.

Monarchy with a Christian benevolent king = ultimate political system for white nations.

>>17885836
They aren’t in the census because they aren’t people.

You’ll notice that people who lose their dogs are saddened for longer periods of time because dogs are closer to a human being than a fetus is.

>If I assert that it is a baby then it is a baby
You know viruses aren’t considered living beings, right? You know, because they can’t live outside of a host.

>>17885875
Are you retarded? The diamond industry is still going strong despite the atrocities of those companies. People don't give a shit. Also hundreds of billions in PR will have people believe anything you want about your company.

>>17885900

>economics without data, logic or evidence

Interesting take

>>17885583
No.

>>17885939
Based.
>You know viruses aren’t considered living beings, right? You know, because they can’t live outside of a host.
Holy fuck you need to be shot.

>>17884602
Same except add in finance, statistics, accounting, and business theory on top of all of that. I'm more centrist and libertarian now.

>>17885956
Fuck off communist.

>>17885971
Do it then

>>17885900
Did't read it, but was Hayek a Jew?

If yes, then no not based.
If no, then maybe based.

>>17884602
>study history
>become a monarchist

>>17885964

Yes, it is. The “fuck you I got mine” meme isn’t a meme. This retards act like their nationalists but have been indoctrinated with the trickle down “every goy for himself” bluepill. They wouldn’t know a Volksgemeinschaft if it hit them in the face.

>>17885707
>Then why aren’t they in the census?
No birth certificate
>Why dont we have a funeral for a lost pregnancy?
We do, retard.
>Why do pregnant mothers say they have “a baby on the way” instead of a baby.
Its a form of expression you fucking autistic nigger.

>>17885942
>You’ll notice that people who lose their dogs are saddened for longer periods of time because dogs are closer to a human being than a fetus is.
And this is a proof of the collective insanity we are living in.

>You know viruses aren’t considered living beings, right? You know, because they can’t live outside of a host.
So now babies are viruses. You're just digging yourself further.
>"I'm 3 months pregnant, the baby is a Coronavirus"

>>17884691
Reactionary bro. /pol/ is baby's way of becoming reactionary. All I did was go to college.

>>17885983

>seething lolbert

>>17885971
Who is advocating for killing?

>>17885942
We get it you dont like kids and you're a suffragette.
Fuck off.

>>17886016

Lmao no one except fundy nutjobs have a funeral for a miscarriage. Get real my man.

>>17885924
>>17885943
Do you retards realize that a company goal is to please its customers? The more they please their customers the more money they will give them, if companies do unethical shit is because their customers enable them, every single problem in the world is the fault of customers not corporations.

>>17885942
Absolute retard. It is life at the moment of conception.
>hur dur ehy do peepo say on deh way

>>17886012
That's because america is a masonic piece of shit. It was founded on (((enlightenment))) values and its cultures is beyond satanic. The death of america will be a victory for the human race.

>>17886011
Serious discussion only, anon. No memeing

>>17886041
You're literally a communist pretending to be a Nazi. I can see right through you, dipshit. Don't think you are slick because you have the /leftypol/ stink all over you.

>>17886026
>babys are viruses
Who are you quoting?

If dogs are mammals because they have hair and give live birth. Then humans are also mammals since they have hair and give live birth.

If viruses are not alive since they cannot live outside a host...

>>17885707
>Kill a pregnant woman
>2 murder charges
>woman consents to killing it
>this should be a constitutional right, and you're monster if you oppose it

>>17886082

Yeah the guys who got shot at the Homestead Massacre had only themselves to blame. Good grief. You people deserve to be replaced.

>>17886082
>every single problem in the world is the fault of customers not corporations.
Yes, that's why democracy and capitalism are terrible systems.

>>17884675
Excited to have you on the libleft in the near future

>>17886094

Amen

>>17886098

Nazis are opposed to your Jewish, atomized conception of human life as just being an economic unit. Fucknoff Chaim.

>>17884993
Yep. One place for every race.

>>17884602
The more you know, the less opinions you have.

Taxation is theft.

>>17886150
I know for a fact you are /leftypol/. Your posting style sticks out like a sore thumb.

The atrocities of the collective will always out-way the atrocities of the individual in my mind.
I'm a federalist and think we should shoot traitors and then the enemies.

>>17886088
According to you
Assertion =\= Argument

>>17884602
Studied economics and became usufruct socialist

I don't know where the fuck you've all come from but I can't wait to hear your opinions once you learn what chainlink is and the world that smart contract automation will creat

>>17886133
>that's why democracy and capitalism are terrible systems.
I see. This comes to mind, for some reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

I'm definitely ancap but I am fascinated about soviet-era stuff. Music, architecture and whatnot.

>>17886180

Tell yourself whatever you want. Capitalism and communism are both shit.

>tfw socially libertarian but economically socialist

>>17885471
I am starting to believe it is too much of a coincidence the pandemic hysteria coming with the elections around the corner.

Maybe the whole "It's just a flu" was actually the truth.

>>17886124
>Homestead Massacre
Why do tankies always bring things from 150 years ago, yes people didn't give a shit about what corporations did back then, you can give a shit now, but you won't do shit because you only want to whine and cry for demagogue corrupt politicians to do everything for you.

>>17884602
>study comparative politics
>become a nazi

>>17885519
>>17885583
Way to prove him right, you are actually deranged and obsessed with identity politics.

Everything you post can be summed up with "IM CRAZY AND UPSET AND THE WORLD IS ENDING BECAUSE THIS OR THAT"

>>17886222
>guise im like totally a nazi and hate jews but the New Deal was the golden age and I love FDR!
>i also use words that only /leftypol/ uses
Seriously.

You are so fucking obvious. Go the fuck back.

>>17886212
It's a jewish scheme to pull more people out of cash society and make them "financially responsible"

>>17886201
>Development of the embryo begins when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote
According to science you gay retard

>>17886115
>getting an amputation from a doctor and from John Waynce Gacy is the same thing

>>17886229
You are what most people are, really. That's how I started off in politics, I believed in an abstract concept of "government helping people" and didn't like much either religious conservatives (except for the abortion stuff discussed above) nor crazy SJWs.

>>17886277
The words “an embryo is a human being” are not found in that sentence.

An embryo is alive in the same way sperm is alive. You genocidal maniac.

>>17886256
>non-sequitur response
Anon you might have mental problems. Where was the identity politics in either of those two posts?

>>17886114
A fetus cannot live without its mother. And like viruses, it is also not alive.
See where this leads us? There are SJWs around already claiming that pregnancy is a disease. I imagine this is not your case, but be careful, because I have lived long enough to know that slippery slopes can be... Slippery.

>>17885956
>without data,
Mathematical models of the economy are pure pseudoscience that is useless at best or with catastrophic results at worst

>>17886229
There is no social freedom without economic freedom, you will be a slave to politicians who just let you fuck another guy and smoke some pot

>>17886349
The slope isnt that slippery considering viruses consist of DNA and nothing else. Read a book jesus christ.

>>17884902
Reminder that ancapism is not the only form of libertarianism and Minarchism is still a dominant school of thought.

Criticizing the state for its reaction to coronavirus does not mean you think there should be no state.

>>17886408
RNA*

>>17886406
Yes.

And economic central planning has a very real risk of leading to social totalitarianism.

Economic freedom and liberty are inexorably linked.

>>17884746
Property owners collectively enforce property laws you absolute brainlet. What happens when there are no cops around, and people are looting your store, and all of your neighbor's stores?

Rooftop Koreans

>>17886334
Try and collect your sperm and see if it will grow into a baby.

The minute that egg accepts a sperm, it becomes a zygote and it is a person, but it is still developing. An egg and a sperm on its own can do nothing and not develop. The sperm cell is the sperm of the father. The ovum is the egg of the mother. The zygote is their new child with unique DNA.

>>17886343
One anon said "ooga booga conserbatibs and lolbertarians bad"
You said "ooga booga I get excited over politics like the freaks in the picture" which means by default that you are obsessed with identity politics.

You're crazy and I'm better than you. Deal with it.

>>17886452
>Try and collect your sperm
/b/ comes to mind

>>17886424
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_virus

DNA or RNA, you’re right

>>17886262
kek it's true. These lefty faggots LARPing as nazis are the worst. They are crawling all over /pol/ too, and they are so easy to spot. They are so gone in their bubble of delusion that they don't realize a single word, talking point, argument or syntax style that ONLY leftist use can give them away.

>>17886410
>and Minarchism is still a dominant school of thought
Unfortunately.

>>17886452
Try and collect your zygoye without a womb and see if it will grow into a baby.
A zygote on its own can do nothing and not develop.

>>17886430
Exactly, and the moment you mess with their money or their power you'll see how free you actually are.

Socialist politicians are all peace and love when nobody is questioning their money and power, but the moment those are under threat you'll see their real faces.

>>17886466
>telling strangers you're better than them on 4chan

>>17886548
Abort yourself you gay retard

>after being X, Y, and Z and reading politics for several years I realize that it's all about power. It really doesn't matter if you're right.
>It doesn't matter what you think or feel about the world. it's moved by power.
>powerful individual and powerful organizations.
>politics only matters as a way of gaining power, nothing more nothing less.
>money is also a way of gaining power and having much much greater influence than muh politicians or being a random roastie moaning on social media (see Soros as an example).
If you think being a communist, libertarian or whatever is useful, you're mistaken. Your personal views doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. This is why I stooped reading about politics and meme economics. You have a much bigger say in politics if you concentrate yourself on making money and then influencing people around you than playing like a peasant and thinking you have any ability to change something.The effort at an individual level when you're no one is useless. There are only 3 options:
1. You create your own political organization (and obviously try to become a politician)
2. You become an "intellectual" with influence (like how Foucault, Sartre or Marx influenced millions of people).
3. You become a millionaire and bribe politicians / fund different organizations that suits your political views or interests (The Soros way).

The third way is the most influential and powerful. You're not seen. You're in the shadows. You just move or influence things or people without anyone realizing it.
Also, it's the most powerful in terms of individual power.

Without any of those 3 conditions being met you're just a nobody and it doesn't matter what you think.

>>17884602
>>study economics
>Become antisemitic
Don't tell my wife

>>17886593
Brainworms

>>17884602
>study different schools of morality
>become libertarian anarchist

>>17886510
They only do it because /pol/ and /leftypol/ ideologies are so similar. The narcissism of small differences.

Just replace "class struggle" with "racial struggle" and "bourgeosie" with "the jews."

Nazism and communism are more similar than they are alike.

>>17886633
Your secret is safe with us, anon.

>>17886510
I'm for gassing Bernie and Trump for being kikes

>>17886644
>Brainworms
>It not alife
>It sperm

>>17886614
Everyone wants to change the world to fit their views, but without power you can't change anything. That's why power comes before anything, and nobody is going to give up power in the name of any ideology. This video should be shown in every school the last day of highschool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs&t=5s

>>17886736
You went from shitty arguments to moronic insults and now you can barely form a coherent sentence.
Get help anon, your parents are worried

>>17885244
>Would you like to be forced to have someone with the Kung Flu (or any airborne disease really) anywhere near your house?

yeah, because the issue here isn't asymptomatic people going into businesses and using air travel, it's random COVID carriers showing up at your door. people who own businesses care more about their immediate need to continue making money than they do about the possibility that virus carriers will infect them or their other clientele, which makes some sense. unchecked, that would lead to some collapse, probably more than it will with businesses closing.

>This collapse was not caused *only* by the virus. Some people like to say that this is all temporary because "fundamentals haven't changed", but that is pointless if the fundamentals are shit. And we (i.e western economies) have been living off extremely cheap credit and BRRRRRR for 10 years, this is the true cause for the undergoing economical collapse. Monetary policy is decided by the government (or people with very close ties with the government), so capitalism isn't to blame here.

this is fair and true. i don't think that means cheap credit and BRRRRR are inherently evil, but the way we've used them have been totally fucked.

>>17886614
What you are saying is very true. The problem is that people have certain set of values and morals that dictate their political views, and if you do any of your 3 options then you're doomed to corrupt yourself not only in the classical sense (aka becoming a corrupt politician or businessman), but corrupting your own inner self. It's worse than anything else.

>>17886728
Only Bernie is a kike, so are you retarded or just pretending?

>>17886862
Trump is shabbos goy same thing

>>17886818
Well when I say "property owners" I don't mean exactly only people who own business. It really is anyone who owns property; it can be a young student living in a small apartment, an enormous industry, a privately-run city and whatnot.

Anyways, property rights on Ancapism is a fucking huge subject that I can't say much further without writing a book in this thread. Specifically I don't think there really is a book on how strong property rights in an Ancap world would help stop contagious diseases. What I can do is recommend you read some Hans-Hermann Hoppe if you are interested in the subject if you're vaguely interested, even if you disagree with his premises.

>>17886801
What's a matter Moshe?

>>17886954
You wish, leftard.

>>17886349
>imagine this guy being aborted instead

>>17886862
>Appeal to white people's sense of justice by calling a Jew shill antisemitic

>>17885519
There's a difference between caring about society and hiding behind a political party like a fucking pussy instead of coming up with your own opinions.

>>17885038
That shit has been refuted by the marginal revolution. Not even orthodox economists use that. If you think its still relevant then you are the economic equivalent of a flat earther.

>>17885195
Adults are talking. Come back when you solve the problem of economic calculation in the communist commonwealth.

>study economics
>become anprim
still graduated with an economics degree though

>>17884602
>study business
>become communist

this wasn't superposed to happen. capital was a mistake.

>>17887209
>let's "abort" people who have different political views
Very democratic and socialistic of you.

>>17884602 (OP)
Nassim Taleb is the dude, but I don't know in what school would he be labeled as.

>>17886349
It's not like a virus, it's more like a human that you (in 99% of cases) willingly engaged in procrastination to create.

>>17887374
Hans Albert debunked marginal theory (law of demand) in the 60s my guy. You don't even understand the implications of the paper I linked.

>>17887481
ah, the classic resort to insults and vaguely gesture at hypocrisy

A stable of right wing discourse. This is truly the height of intellectualism

>>17884602
>libertarian
it doesn’t work, nazional socialism with closed borders and a strong internal demand is way better
central planning is fucking based
you can have you business, fine, but privatizations just make services worse and more expensive
Utilities and telecom companies should be gov monopolies with zero profit target
The only thing that I would keep is a big salary gap between skilled and unskilled workers to keep incentives

Imagine being a libertarian while we’re blatantly in late stage capitalism.

>>17887698
Socialist fanfic doesn't count as science.

>>17887772
Imagine posting here thinking its reddit.

Anyone who doesn't realize how spot-on Marx's analysis of capitalism was really doesn't have any business on this board.

t. not a communist, just someone who actually studies real economic theory and not some libertarian bullshit

>>17885583
Conservatives and libertarians are deranged, too.

>>17887813
>Calling empirical evidence fanfic
Well let's hear your arguments Mr. Science man.

>>17887708
>but privatizations just make services worse and more expensive
The absolute state of cummiebrains

Post-libertarian neoreaction anybody?

>>17887866
Jokes on you. Marx theories aren't relevant in orthodoxy economics.

>>17887888
I'm at the intersection of the trichotomy it's comfy

>>17884689
>Libertarian
>Chicago school
HAHAHAHA

>>17885570
>neolibs are lefties

holy shit the delusion lmfao

Who centrist here?

>>17887866
No, Marx was wrong in a lot of his observations about capitalism

According to LTV, exchanges should fluctuate around the value of surplus labour. But they don't. They fluctuate around the rates of profit.

Even Marx realized this by vol 3 and ended up completely contradicting his own observations in vol 1. Transformation problem is unresolvable in Marxist orthodoxy.

Not to mention that Marx's theory COMPLETELY ignores the dimension of time.

Believing in Marxism in 2020 makes you a fucking brainlet.

>>17884602
>study economics
>become libertarian
>watch libertarian debates
>most people are degenerates
>become authoritarian

> that feel when its been 124 years since Von Bawerk wrote Karl Marx and the Close of His System and there are still retards who believes Marxist flat earth bullshit.

CMV

Socialism without a common global government is just neo feudalism

Marx is associated with value theory, not Ricardo's labor theory of value you literal brainlet.

>>17885052
Someone post that cap of some black dude saying that the government shutting down events and businesses is a coordinated attack on Capitalism

>>17887962

Neoliberalism IS left wing. It is cultural marxism.

see >>17885869

>>17888202
Marx never defined what "socially necessary" meant in his own definition of value in a meaningful way that differeniated his definition from Ricardo's.

Ricardo's theory of value was wrong, btw.

>>17888247
This

''socially necessary'' was the fake keyword for the whole scam ideology he created.

>>17885122
based & redpilled

>>17884602
How does it feel to not have a soul?

>>17888247
>Marx never defined what "socially necessary" meant in his own definition of value in a meaningful way that differeniated his definition from Ricardo's.
Literally the first paragraphs on the Wikipedia page..
>Socially necessary labour time in Marx's critique of political economy is what regulates the exchange value of commodities in trade and consequently constrains producers in their attempt to economise on labour. It does not 'guide' them, as it can only be determined after the event and is thus inaccessible to forward planning.
>Unlike individual labour hours in the classical labour theory of value formulated by Adam Smith and David Ricardo, Marx's exchange value is conceived as a proportion (or 'aliquot part') of society's labour-time

>Ricardo's theory of value was wrong, btw.
But's it's not see: >>17885038
The founder of marginalism, Jevons admitted prices were proportional to labor. This paper has proved it to be right since the 90s.

>>17884902
>general anarchy
>in ancap world

>>17886703
He just said that we can tell who you are by syntax alone and then you go and post this.

>>17888546
If that's the definition, Marx contradicted himself in vol 3. See >>17888031

>>17888586
I was the one who originally called out the communist LARPing as a Nazi.

I hate both communists and Nazis. Both authoritarian scum.

>>17888546
>It does not 'guide' them, as it can only be determined after the event and is thus inaccessible to forward planning.
Yet communists expect us to believe that they can centrally plan an entire economy based on labour time vouchers.

KYS

>>17885195
>Capitalism requires a state to defend private property rights

Capitalism consists of
>voluntary transactions
>a market economy
>and accumulation of capital
Property rights have nothing to do with it. Exchange happens regardless of ownership, and enrichment can take more or less defensible forms which may or may not require greater or lesser uses of force if any to protect and maintain.

>>17888633
Okay schlomo

>>17888602
Explain how he contradicted himself.

>Yet communists expect us to believe that they can centrally plan an entire economy based on labour time vouchers.
Yes, it's called the computer. Read: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

>>17888774
>Explain how he contradicted himself
It says it right in the post. Can you read? No point responding to you any further until you address the points in >>17888031

>>17888774
>read cockshott
Nah, he's a retard.

>>17888633
>nazi and communists are the same thing
They are the exact opposite. Nazis are fun, communists are boring. Nazis realize the fundamental truth of reality which is inequality.

>>17888774
Why does communism always seem to require sci fi technologies to be implemented into society?
>communism is inevitable
You people are practically a religious group. There is nothing inevitable about anything. The sun itself could explode tomorrow instantly killing everyone on earth.

>>17888708
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Private property rights have everything to do with it because without a state to defend them, Capitalists would not be able to generate their profit from the exploitation of labor. No Capitalist class=No Capitalism

Marxism is a beautiful thing

>>17888917
>Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production.
Then we're not talking about the same thing.

>>17887705
Anon said he literally wants to abort (aka kill) me and it is I who is insulting him? How is that? I thought you were better than this, anon.

>>17888917
>profit comes from exploitation of labor
nope. The capitalist's profit in exchange for worker's wages are a trade against intertemporal states of the world.

LTV is false.

Marx did not understand time preference.

Economics is just practical ethics.

>>17884602
>become libertarian
oh no no no

>>17885766

The only one who's actually clashing in that sampling is Krugman and he's even a soft handed neo Keynesian. Neoliberalism encompasses all of these figures because they all support free trade and privatisation writ large.

>>17888633
Authoritarianism is fucking based if it BTFOs evil. i.e kikes.

That's why monarchism and nazism are both based and make the left screech

>>17888917
>exploitation of labor
By that do you mean two consenting parties agreeing to profit from each other?

>>17889029
>authoritarianism is based
OK cuck

>>17887705
The height of intellectualism is actually going to anime image boards on the internet with a posse of 16-24 year old gender confused dick sniffers to 'fight' nazism for the greater good of all the peoples of the world whether they like it or not.

>>17884675
nazi? fuck you.

>>17884602
me ever since 2012, more and more so with every passing day, although it's harder to get more libertarian than I am already now

>>17885869
>confiscate guns
centralization of power and the means of force in the government's possession is a right-wing position

>>17884966
based

>>17885038
>"Instead of in-kind figures for, say, the quantityof coal used by the steel industry or the quantity of alu-minium used by the aircraft industry, we have figures forthemoney valueof the purchases of each industry fromeach other industry. And instead of a vector of hoursof direct labour performed in each industry we have avector of wage bills."
>"wow, there is a correlation between costs of production and price!"
I bet this dogshit didn't even make it through peer review lmao

>>17889208
lol what? The first thing ALL socialist and communist regimes do is confiscate guns so nobody can resist the revolution. Gun confiscation is inherently left wing.

Citizen Gun ownership is definitevely Right Wing position. It was even true of Nazi Germany who strengthened gun laws for Germans.

In fact gun ownership is one of the definiting issues that seperates Left from Right. So what in the ever loving fuck are you talking about?

>>17885489
That's a serious redpill that the incels aren't ready for, nor will they ever be ready for. It's easier to cry subversion than come to terms with the fact that many natural interests/urges that are forced to compete against traditional values are easily exploitable for many purposes, not just including money.
You show me a kid that's never been allowed to eat sugar growing up under any circumstances, and I can show you a kid who'll do retarded shit like buy candy bars second hand from classmates for twice the price.

>study econopolitics
>become plescitarian

>>17884602
>He's not a Pre-WW1 Capitalist Nationalist
What are you doing with your life?

>>17884624
not op, austrian

>>17884806
Imagine being this fucking stupid

>>17885489
>we
But you are factually wrong. jews have spent the last century losing money on battling racism ect ect for the sole purpose of creating a mutt society.

They even outright admit they do. Jews feel safer in a diverse society. It makes it more difficult to specifically target jews when their are hundreds of small groups all doing their work to destroy the host nation.

>>17889649
Really makes you wonder why the ADL Wastes so much money trying to protect criminals like Leo Frank and Jeffrey Epstein

>>17889490
>race mixing is natural
A nation doesn't just naturally go from saying "i hate niggers" to " I love niggers so much I want to have their babies and I want my babies to to grow up sorrounded by non whites as well"

>>17889586
A few months from now you will see how your future was destroyed to save boomer lives.
You can not stop an economy like this. I am talking about my country, in Europe, of course. I do not know what is happening in the US and I am not concerned.

Who Hoppean style libertarian here? Wanna hang out and throw socialists out of helicopters?

>>17884602
pure cringe

>>17885471
22469 dead ÷ 60.8m infected = 0.036% mortality rate
11 dead ÷ 164 infected = 6.7% mortality rate

>It's just the flu

>>17889858
Mises + Rothbard + Hoppe

>>17889888
The mortality rate is going to be higher than that when everything is said and done unless everyone of the remaining infected survive.

>>17889858
I'm down, sounds like fun, so to speak

>>17888888
don't mind me

>>17889490
Racemixing is 100% Jewish social engineering.

>>17884675
Lib left is the only true option read up some anarco mutualism

>>17889480
>Citizen Gun ownership is definitevely Right Wing position
Yeah...About that

>>17884864
Only right answer

What do you guys think about taleb? What school of thought would he be placed on?

>>17884864
>>17890276
Actually is like studying astronomy and geology and becoming a flat earther.

>>17885693
>where children worked 10hrs a day in unsafe conditions for wages
If you're poor, you should not be having children, because you cannot afford it.

>>17885983
>i-it makes commies seeth!
>proceeds to instantly seeth when his factless and logicless book is called out
Like pottery.

>>17890272
The fuck kind of cherrypicking shit argument is this? Some people once said something at some time?

Now do real world policy.

> be a socialist NEET basedboy
> In the USSR, people who didn't work was sent to jail (or Gulag if you lived during Stalin rule)

Honestly based, so many cucks here think modern America is libertarian or "free" somehow.

>>17885651
>The freemarket works really really well at the market level, not at the corporate level. Libertarians like to argue our current oligarchy is the result of government intervention but that isn't true. Monopolies are inevitable
Monopolies are not a significant issue, and nowhere near a key issue problematizing a libertarian position.
>the inevitable political power money brings
This is the actual issue which you have either intentionally or ignorantly buried beneath mounds of irrelevant matters.
"Crony capitalism" whereby the laws are tailored around specifically maintaining and enlarging particular companies' "monopolies" is a real problem---not one inherent to Libertarianism at all, but still must be watched against, because it actively threatens the freedom that Libertarianism is based in.

>>17890582
>The fuck kind of cherrypicking shit argument is this?
The same as >>17889480, evidently.
So pick one.

>>17884602
Politics is an inevitable condition of living in society, even in a libertarian society there must be politics.

>>17884746
>state enforces private property
Wow you are really retarded

>>17890643
My man H3's Argumentation ethics would like to have a talk with you.

>>17885700
Hmmhmm.

>>17889101
No, this is pure masterbation and I’m acutely aware of this

It’s fun to watch dipshit right wingers to flip to a new and increasingly retarded argument everytime they cant come up with a response

>>17884602
>>17884626
Based. I think the next move is for people to pull out of politics all-together. ESPECIALLY the two-party pathetic faggotry we have now.

>m-muh politics are my entire identity!

Hate faggots like that.

>>17890711
Who the heck do you think will defend private property if not the state? Capitalism cannot exist without the state.

>>17885195
Private property existed before any state.
Using marx as your reference for you to prove something about capitalism only makes you look silly since marx is used by revisionist and already seen as outdated thought in all social sciences. So please if you want to larp as smart Internet guy at least get some uni diploma

>>17890711
Do you know what a deed is?

>>17890781
>Who the heck do you think will defend private property if not the state?

>>17890781
> voluntary transactions can only happen if there is a state.
I think you are smoking too much of that marxism

>>17890764
>Bro class consciousness is just a meme

>>17890789
You can only own property if you have the capacity to defend it against thieves, we need a government to protect that right, I am not defending the current forms of government, but I am just pointing that it is naive to think we can have a society without government.

>>17890789
>Private property existed before any state.
Give me one example
>>17890815
>Cannot answer the question
>>17890816
I'm not talking about "voluntary transactions"

libertarianism is the gayest cringiest ideology around, just 100% lame

>>17890906
>I'm not talking about "voluntary transactions"
Voluntary transactions and private property are intrinsically the same thing you fucking degenerate.

>>17890897
You don't need the government. You need guns.

>>17885333
>private property is decided by who has the most power
sounds like socialism

>>17890781
>Who the heck do you think will defend private property if not the state?

The community

>>17885777

>tfw centrist so I can be right when applicable and ignore counterarguments when convenient
It all depends. Sometimes controlling the populace is necessary, sometimes it isn't.

>>17890906
>Give one example
Tribal confederations, colonial communities, pre-state society

>>17890938
>ownership and trade are the same thing

> You don't need the government. You need guns.
Hey so I have all the guns and your house is now my house. You can live there if you want, but be sure to pay your respects to me in the form of taxes.

>>17890938
>You don't need the government. You need guns
You really think you alone can defend your property, for instance land, against a country like China with millions of citizens, with just some revolvers and pistols? If you want to defend your property you have to join forces with other people and form a government.

>>17890906
>Cannot answer the question
Anyone can answer the question, except you for the posted reason, posted for the purpose of reiterating this to the audience.

>>17890978
The state is an evolution of the community organization, as there was a need for a bigger army to repel some greater attacks. Like Sparta, it started as a community, then became a city-state. The modern state is the evolution of the city-state.
Not to say it's right or not, just stating how it came to be.

>>17891024
>your house is now my house
as are my bullets, which I will be sending to you with the utmost haste
hope you like them

>>17891024
Implying you faggy excuse of Onions bloated socialist will come nowhere near my property.

>>17891036
> join forces with other people
Ok.
> and form a government
Love how you use the chance to jump to some servile position.

>>17891102
>The state is an evolution of a criminal organization
FTFY

>>17890897
>You can only own property if you have the capacity to defend it against thieves
True you need a strength to defend your rights against hostiles but that could be also be provided by the community and other means it does not necessarily mean that the government is the best option for that
>We need the government to defend private property
I'm not an ancap and I'm not against the government. But it is not healthy to think that only the government can defend your rights you have to remember that we the citizens struggled against the government for years in order to FORCE them to defend certain human rights. You also can't forget that the government is nothing more then few people in power and that governments in past turned rogue against the will of the citizens in order to protect the people who stayed in power.

>>17891044
Answer it then.

You can protect your house from a burglar with a gun. What about a gang? or a militia? or a full blown army from a neighboring nation?

>>17891145
>You also can't forget that the government is nothing more then few people in power and that governments in past turned rogue against the will of the citizens in order to protect the people who stayed in power
B-but Bernie who sucked the dick of Castro and the Nicaraguan president won't do that.

>>17890978
Why would the "community" voluntarily defend the ownership of private property by a small group of Capitalists. Wouldn't it make more sense for the community to seize the means of production for the benefit of the community? Capitalists need a monopoly of violence in the form of a state because otherwise the community would just collectivize the means of production.

>>17891149
>You can protect your house from a burglar with a gun. What about a gang? or a militia? or a full blown army from a neighboring nation?

Communities != government

You must be European.

>>17891105
>implying real life is a kung fu movie where enemies will only attack you once at a time
>implying real life is a John Wick film where you will take down an entire militia by yourself

>>17891117
>servile position
Well unlike you I realize I am a limited being, I am not God almighty, I have limitations, but you, if you think you are some king of God who doesn't need help from anyone, then keep believing that, you will fail miserable.

>>17891102
I do not deny that that and I'm not against the distinction of the state. But you have to remember that governments can turn themselves into tyrannical forces the only reason why they defend our private property is because the communities in the past forced them to do that. Before the liberal revolutions and their ideas the states only existed to protect the positions of their rulers and their well-being.

>>17891167
Indeed if nothing else Bernie is a man of his word, Hillary will tell you.

>>17891191
Even if you got every lolbertarian in the united states fully armed and in your community you would not be able to fend off w neighboring nation

>>17890978
>>17891102
>>17891186
Come on guys, what we need is some Tegridy

>>17891191
>You must be European.
Or just retarded. Not worth engaging nevertheless.

>>17891186
Yeah it totally happened in USSR. The community fought against the capitalists and created paradise on earth and nobody ever suffered and experienced hunger. Scarcity was also magically solved.

>>17891214
Its not like the almighty US army lost to some farmers in Vietnam and later in Afghanistan right? Pfff... that would be impossible.

>>17891145
I agree, the current form of government is built to protect the powerful, but it is actually a problem with the political system not with the concept of the state per se, we need a political system designed around the need of the individuals comprising it.
We can form a government that will actually listen to the voice of its individual members.

>>17890764
American "politics" is a meme.

>>17891272
I’m sorry, were the farmers in Afganistan and Vietnam individualists or part of a country?
Forget about countries. You think that McDonalds couldn’t steal your land if they wanted more farm land?

>>17884626
The only thing you're supposed to do in life is build up the number in your bank account.
You're the exact kind of person who is going to get reeducated at one of those camps with that great slogan "arbeit macht frei".

>>17884602
>studied economics
>got blackpilled about humanity

>>17891236
>Yeah it totally happened in USSR
Yes, Dictatorship of the proletariat
>The community fought against the capitalists
Actually they were fighting to overthrow the decadent and incompetent monarchy and didn't want to replace it with a system ruled by another class of parasites.

>>17891336
Killdozer.

>>17891357
Yeah its not like the USSR communist party was a class a parasites living in special luxury condos.

>> 17891202
More or less, it started as an exchange, in feudalism the peasant farmed, and the nobles fought the wars to defend it. It was a just exchange. The problem with the modern state is that nobles didn't protect shit anymore, the whole simmetry went to shit.
Yes, I do agree with you, that's why I believe the state should work by negative way, and should be bottom-up.

>> 17891143
To some extent, yes, some pillaged and conquered others. There are some which are a result of the own community organizing itself to protect themselves, and placing the whole leadership on the shoulders of the strongest. But the nowadays state is asymmetrical, there are lots of asymmetries that makes them unjust and spoiled.

The basis of any state was the symmetry, nowdays is crap with full top-down powers.

>>17885869
>Truth is that neoliberalism IS cultural marxism
Neoliberalism consists of the economic privatization of state functions, supplemented by sufficient regulation to maintain some semblance of control---an intertwining of business and politics. This has little to nothing to do with cultural marxism, unless you had in mind some other unmentioned tenet(s).

>>17891272
We never would have lost vietnam if we didnt have a bunch of stateside commies pulling us out. We were literally massacring them 50 to 1. There wouldnt have BEEN a vietcong by the time we were done.

>>17891202

More or less, it started as an exchange, in feudalism the peasant farmed, and the nobles fought the wars to defend it. It was a just exchange. The problem with the modern state is that nobles didn't protect shit anymore, the whole simmetry went to shit.
Yes, I do agree with you, that's why I believe the state should work by negative way, and should be bottom-up.

>>17891143

To some extent, yes, some pillaged and conquered others. There are some which are a result of the own community organizing itself to protect themselves, and placing the whole leadership on the shoulders of the strongest. But the nowadays state is asymmetrical, there are lots of asymmetries that makes them unjust and spoiled.

The basis of any state was the symmetry, nowdays is crap with full top-down powers.

>>17891365
Is dead, South Dakota is doing fine

>>17891357
>he actually believes "the people" have risen up against evil even once
>he sites the communist revolution as one of these great examples
What funny thing are you going to say next? That democracy is a feasible political system?

>>17885284
EPA was setup to stop companies from pouring chemicals into our rivers by the truckload, such as 100 years ago when our rivers were literally on fire. In a lolbertarian society we would just shame the company into not doing that because fairy tale reasons about ethics and profit.

>>17891438

*Via negativa, not negative way.
Which means the state should not dictate what you shoud do, but rather what not, on the economics side ofc.

Every socialist is a cuca. You know how? They fight for some highly mighty ideal the elites fabricate for them and when they finally succeed it, another elite is born from that revolution. Be it the castro family, the maduro family, the politburo... they are always paving the way to violent and authoritarian chads that will rule over those fags. And guess what? They will do it again. Every time.

>>17891336
>I’m sorry, were the farmers in Afganistan and Vietnam individualists or part of a country?
Thats not the point. The point is the fact that a huge country with a high tech army lost to some farmers with used AK47s. Your argument about self defense is over.

>>17885943
>The diamond industry is still going strong despite the atrocities of those companies. People don't give a shit. Also hundreds of billions in PR will have people believe anything you want about your company.
correct

>>17891186
>Wouldn't it make more sense for the community to seize the means of production for the benefit of the community?

Capitalist companies already are for the benefit for the community. Their very existence is a concrete proof of that fact. If the community did not see those companies as benefit for them private property or capitalist property as we see today will end to exist just like the property relations of feudalism. Many corporations are already open leaving their stocks in the market to be bought and sell by and for the community. The Marxist as many things tend to ignore this fact. Now even if you size the means of production that doesn't mean the company will be controlled by the community. The means of production are a limmited resource it cannot be under the domain of everyone it can only be directly controlled by few individuals similar like public institutions are controlled today. So you will have similar situation like the one in capitalism even if you give all the means of production to the wagies that does not mean that all of them will enjoy the profits from the establishment since the profits are as well limited resources that can only be distributed to few people. Now like in our time line you will have conflict of interests between the investors (workers who have invested with their private property) and outsiders (wagies who only leach from the investors) the investors will most likely want bigger portion of the profit since the whole company was made by their resources. While the wagies would like to leach out of those resources and steal the profits from the investors.

>>17884675
>so yeah my political opinion are basically based around what personal situation i'm in.
retard

>>17891501
> Thats not the point
The whole point of this argument is about abolishing the government will not stifle your ability to defend your property, is it not?
Saying that one country lost to another country has nothing to do with that initial argument. In both cases a government structure is involved.

If you want an example of a community fighting off a foreign nation then look at the natives in America.

>>17884602
Libertarianism is fucking retarded.
You're still engaged in politics, you still have hope in the political system.

Abandon all hope. The world isn't going to get better. Just try to get rich, rise above the filth and find a small band of worthy bros to lift up. Become tribalist, everyone else is doing it. If you still care what happens to these 'countries', you're a moron.

>>17887463
>study business
>become communist

This is the only high IQ conclusion. Funny thing is, Engels was a successful capitalist who also financed his Marx's NEET lifestyle. They actually saw and worked with capital up close. Meanwhile lolberts are all poor loser bootlickers. There's a reason no actual capitalist believes that shit.

>>17884689
Cringe Austrian: Rothbard
Cringe Keynes: Krugman
Based Keynes: Keynes himself
Based Chicago: Friedman, Scott Summer
Based Austrian: Menger, Bohm-Bawerk, Kirzner, Fekete

Based transcended: Nakamoto, Land

>>17891707
You don't seem to really understand the concept of a political philosophy.

>>17891711
the reason they don't promote libertarianism is that it does benefit their lobbyist practices
Why do you trust billionares defending statism?

>>17891711
>Bootlicker
God I can sense all those hemorrhoids from your asshole just because you typed that buzzword

>>17887463
>study business
>become communist

This is the only high IQ conclusion. Funny thing is, Engels was a successful capitalist who also financed his friend Marx's NEET lifestyle. They actually saw and worked with capital up close. Meanwhile lolberts are all poor loser bootlickers. There's a reason no actual capitalist believes that shit.

>>17891738
how is rothbard cringe?

>>17891613
>Capitalist companies already are for the benefit for the community
No. Surplus value goes to the Capitalist. Workers have no say and are alienated from their labor. Under Capitalism, the primary motive for production is profit, not need.

>>17891760
you do not need to delete the whole fucking comment for a typo, newfag
die

>>17891707
>Become tribalist
I agree, but still even if your group is small there will still be conflict among you and it is resolved through politics, lol you can't escape it.

>>17884602
Yes, the keynsian bullshit was so extreme that the pendulum pushed me to the other side.

>>17891760
Based. Also, if this image doesn't instantly redpill you about Capitalism, I don't know what will.

>>17884602
Syndicalism is better.

Fun fact for lolberts: we've never actually observed markets in stateless societies. Markets actually seem to come online after the invention of the state, as a means for kings to equip soldiers. The same goes for barter. The idea of barter as an antecedent to commodity money is a neoclassical economic myth -- a just-so story -- never corroborated by anthropological evidence. Contemporary anthropological evidence seems to suggest the opposite. That is, primitive societies seem to operate on credit systems of money. Curious.

>>17891775
He is not Hoppe.

>>17885519
no

>>17891871
> here is my irrefutable argument: a picture of a fat guy wearing a suit and top hat.

>>17891871

>>17891936
I was talking about this image >>17891760

>>17891784
>Surplus value
A meme that doesn't exist profits are from the capital and therefore belong to the one who invested that capital which is the capitalist.
>Workers have no say and are alienated from their labor.
*Outsiders have no say since they simply use the private property of the investors(capitalist). They do not pay for the resources of the business they do not invest any property and they won't have direct loses if the company fails. Meanwhile the capitalist holds the whole responsibility for this business and risk losing his investments. If the capitalist do not get the fruits of his capital the whole venture will feel the loses and the whole production process will stop. Since there won't be any resources that can fund that venture.
>Under capitalism the primary mode of production is profit
Under any economic system the fundamental motive is profit the only reason is profit can come in different material.

>>17891924
I raise you another one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuL6T5Dc2LI

>>17892007
Surplus value is based on objective value, which is Adam Smith's retarded idea that value is derived from the time worked. It is a failed theory. Two wines made in the same manner but in different regions and fruits will have a different value.

Thats happens because what determines value is not the time spent or the owner of the production line. What defines value is the marginal utility that the customer puts on that product.

Remove surplus value and everything Marx falls apart.

>>17891746
I understand it, I just have total disdain for it.

>>17891879
Stateless societies tend to be hunter-gatherer which does not necessitate planning and exchange. The land can be subsisted off with little need for access to non-essential products.
Clothing is deemphasized, shelter is simple, land is allocated. Manufacturing skills are put to the use of a family or for a community, and both the products and the knowledge are shared.
To say markets have not been recognized in stateless societies is pauce.

>>17885244
Literally only the government can solve it. Only the govt has the authority to enforce things like lockdowns and quarantines.

>>17892067
>I understand it
Your post implies you don't, especially when you propose your own unnamed political philosophy as an alternative.

>>17891965
Least legible fucking infographic I've ever seen.
Use directed graphs, some arrows actually point upward in this and there's no way to tell which ones. Font is small enough that pixel artifacts affect glyphs. Text is so far down some lines that the text is off-screen from either the source or destination.

>this thread

>>17892096
>solve it
A quarantine doesn't solve an pandemic. A cure does.

>>17892066
I know it is not a stupid idea it is just outdated. You have to remember when Adam smith was alive the majority of production was done by manually the majority of the people were farmers. Now we live in a industrial economy that can only exist in capitalism with capital investments(a option not possible under socialism). But hey it is not our fault that the majority of the socialists are retards who fallow outdated or failed ideas

>>17892142
> I think anarcho-capitalism is based upon altruism and not a zero-trust ideal based on self-greed.

>>17892007
>they won't have direct loses if the company fails
Meanwhile in reality...

And it seems like the bailouts for '08 were forgotten, and no they weren't for the average Americans

>>17892149
Agreed. Considering that theory is outdated, shouldn't marxist and their whole pants on the head retarded Frankfurt school be exposed as the economic equivalent of flat earthers?

>>17892149
>You have to remember when Adam smith was alive the majority of production was done by manually the majority of the people were farmers.
That has nothing to do with it. Rather he lived in an age with few brands and little choice. Beans were beans and a shoe was a shoe.

>>17886440
>0 replies

>>17892109
>akshually

Fuck off politics nerd.There isn't going to be a utopia based on some gay ideology. Grow up.

>>17892212
I said direct loses which is the lost of a property and investment. indirect loses are felt by everyone including the consumers. Losing your job is part of the indirect loses

>>17892191
You're right, if we look at a list of successful anarcho-capitalist societies on earth that have withstood the test of time, we'll see that you're right. Societies like-- oh wait, they cant even exist because they're inherently butt fucking stupid and flawed. Even commies had their little run, ancaps cant even get off the ground

>>17884602
I believe in the exact same thing as libertarians, except that businesses should be owned by the collective of the workforce therein.

Study syndicalism, friend. The best of capitalism but removes the cancer.

>>17892247
>a utopia
Again demonstrating your lack of understanding of what a political philosophy is for.

>>17892268
At least we didn't starved and killed hundreds of millions of people.
>>17892269
Syndicalism is a form of government. If the commune doesn't want you to do something then you can't do it. Thats no freedom.

>>17892269
>businesses should be owned by the collective of the workforce therein.

It cannot be possible and if it is achieved it will evolve back to capitalism because of the conflict of interests inside that company

>>17886614
>You have a much bigger say in politics if you concentrate yourself on making money and then influencing people around you
Hmm, that sounds familiar, I wonder what political philosophy reasons along those lines of economic expediency toward well-being...

>>17892325
>Syndicalism is a form of government. If the commune doesn't want you to do something then you can't do it. Thats no freedom.
Syndicalism works basically the same except as anarcho-capitalism, except there is no capitalist class. Businesses still compete with eachother, but these businesses are owned by the workers instead of a single person.

I don’t know what you mean by “commune”

>>17892070
>which does not necessitate planning and exchange.
Another neoclassical myth. Like I said, these societies do exhibit planning and exchange in the form of elaborate social credit systems of money. From these systems commodity money is born. And only after commodity money does barter occur. Societies must fulfill certain structural conditions (i.e. the development of a state) before phenomena like markets and barter occur.

>>17892347
>It cannot be possible and if it is achieved it will evolve back to capitalism because of the conflict of interests inside that company
Except syndicalized businesses already exist and they work just fine

>>17892412
Examples? Not talking about unions. Talking about collectively owned business.

>>17892220
>That has nothing to do with it. Rather he lived in an age with few brands and little choice. Beans were beans and a shoe was a shoe

I meant to say that the majority of products were done manually in smaller companies usually a manual workshops and therefore manual labor was more important back then. Now the most important resource is capital the production is done more or less by machines and therefore that resources and the position of the capitalist (the owner of the means of production) is more important.

>>17892433
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

>>17892379
Also without private property there is no such thing as same as anarcho capitalism. ANCAP philosophy is entirely built on the concept of private property.

>>17892325
>At least we didn't starved and killed hundreds of millions of people
so what you're saying is, you cant even outdo stalin and mao? HAHAHAHA oh wow.

Imagine being so fucking stupid that you think complex, nuanced things like economics and politics can be boiled down to armchair, freshman philosophy.

>>17892433
>Not talking about unions. Talking about collectively owned business.
Yes, they exist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_employee-owned_companies

>>17892396
>these societies do exhibit planning and exchange in the form of elaborate social credit systems of money
I'm not talking about inter-tribal gift economies. And if you want to, you'll have a hard time maintaining this position that they needed a state for the trades they conducted.

>>17892462
It’s the same as in anti big government and pro free market. Only the free market is organized differently, and based on collectively owned property instead of private property.

>>17892447
What I'm saying is that if we assume there is an objective, timeless right answer to the question of where value comes from, then Adam Smith was indeed fooled by this seemingly more relevant element and was ultimately wrong. Just because it was more apparent at the time that time invested was most important doesn't mean it was actually correct.

>>17892486
They weren't gift economies, but rather credit systems. And I never claimed the state was required for such systems, only for commodity systems.

>>17892575
>rather credit systems
Working through symbolic gifts.

>>17892453
Mondragon is perfectly capitalistic. Are you even Spanish? I am and I know that company from everyday life.
It's a cooperative, but still a private company. You are not proving anything against capitalism.

>>17892605
"Gift" implies a lack of necessity, but these exchanges are anything but. The community's continued existence depends on them.

>>17892453
>>17892621
PS: I am sorry, I might have confused you with a few idiotic shills here. You are -maybe- right, in that companies work better this way, I do not know.
But I disagree in that they "should" be like this. If you force companies to have a particular hierarchy then there is no possible libertarianism.
I think it is important to realize that "capitalism" is not a goal of libertarianism. It is, perhaps, a consequence, nothing more. If you had a society where everyone agrees to live in "communist-like" groups it would still be libertarian.

>>17892706
Take it up with Mauss.

>>17892744
Mauss died 70 years ago dude. We've made innovations in anthropology since then.

>>17892808
>We've made innovations in anthropology since then.
And yet you continue to implicitly cite him and the work of his contemporaries.
>Mauss died 70 years ago dude
No shit. Better look into a seance.
Or better yet, spare us the bullshit next time.

>>17892831
I'm not citing him. You're so far behind you don't even know who I'm citing.

>>17884839
larping as neocons is dead larping as a hypocritical commie is now officially in

>>17892870
Okay boomer