/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17712729
Why would it?

>>17712756

Because it crushes small businesses/sole traders trying to progress past £85k turnover. People such as myself purposefully keep below £85k to avoid registering for VAT. Its also unpopular with the general public as it adds 20% or so to most of what they buy.

>>17712756

Listen to the guy at 38:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14PnVuxhqRo

The main benefit of leaving the EU is the ability to abolish VAT.

>>17712729
So let me get this straight.... First they tax my income and then they want to tax me when I spend my income too? Literally immoral.

>>17713279

Exactly. This tax is a cancer on us all..... Except for corporations that write-off most of their tax burden on vat schemes such as research and development.

So when we get to the till we don't have to try and work out the real price. It's already included. The US taxes at the till annoy the shit out of me

>>17713279
oh yes. soon enough you will be taxed for paying your taxes

>>17713327

You are talking about sales tax? Some states in America don't have it. But sales tax is better than VAT. You gotta pay maybe 5% or so whereas VAT is like 20% and the paperwork is disgusting for businsses.

>>17713177
The gaping hole that would be left if VAT was abolished is more important than populism and helping small businesses grow. I don't see one reason why it should be abolished by the UK govt. There are more pressing issues.

Because the government are all shekel grubbers

>>17713373

Oh so you don't want to abolish VAT because you want more taxes? Why don't you just tax imports from the EU... You do realize that VAT was only introduced to offset the taxes lost from tariff trade among European countries right anon? Time to stop reading the guardian..

>>17713373
>There are more pressing issues.

What is your job?

>>17713393

If they are shekel grubbers they should tax imports from the EU though right.

>>17713406
If UK abolishes VAT, there will be new taxes. Do you want new taxes? You absolute mong.
>You do realize that VAT was only introduced to offset the taxes lost from tariff trade among European countries right anon?
I don't. Anyways, what's the difference between tariffs and VAT if the amount of money that the govt gets is the same? It's the same thing - a tax on consumption

>>17713427
Product description writer for an online shop

>>17713492

What is your job? Probably a civil servant or some other form of cancer.

Yes new taxes, preferably a flat tax where corporations pay the same rate as everyone else... But in the meantime, taxing imports from the EU like we used to do should be a good course of action.

Because VAT is a tax that harms business.. It literally disincentivizes the growth of SME's.. The coporatist system we have now is not sustainable and is a cancer.

>>17713524
wanker.. go read the guardian

This book was handed out to whole Conservative party. It is very important that we have tax reform.

>>17713606
Good luck passing a law that fucks over both every consumer in the country AND big corporations.
>b-but muh SME's
SME's aren't as strong a power in politics as you think. You naive child

>>17713492
>- a tax on consumption

It's a tax on turnover for a lot of businesses, as the guy said in this video >>17713232
>Listen to the guy at 38:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14PnVuxhqRo plus the paperwork drags people down.


The only tax that should exist is on income/profit.. In whatever form that comes. A tax on turnover is so retarded it could have only come from the EU.

>>17713741
Lmao, it is not a tax on turnover. It is a consumption tax. It is paid by the consumer.
Also, how did it come from the EU? It might have come as a result of not being able to tariff European imports anymore, but nobody forced you to instate VAT lmao. Stop being such a victim, it's pathetic.

>>17713713

You might want to live in a quasi Communist society, but that is not productive in the long term and stifles innovation.... The economy must be dynamic with losers and winners. The big companies/banks need to be able to collapse and the small guys need no barriers to success. A heavily progressive income tax is a plank of the Communist manifesto, people literally stop working when they reach certain thresholds... If you can't see what is faulty with that system you have read too much of the guardian.

>>17713810
>Lmao, it is not a tax on turnover. It is a consumption tax. It is paid by the consumer.

Typical uninformed guardian reader https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes

>>17713810
>Also, how did it come from the EU?

VAT is mandatory within the EU, to compensate governments for the tax revenue lost via getting rid of import taxes from other EU countries.

>>17713810

Plus a lot of business just stomach the 20% charge on their turnover to avoid the paperwork.

>>17713863
You're just ranting now. I'm not saying what should and what shouldn't happen. I'm looking at things realistically.

>>17713912
The margin scheme doesn't make it a turnover tax.
>VAT is mandatory within the EU
Yeah, you are correct. What the fuck is that? EU pisses me off.

>>17713952

The path to economic success is shown in countries such as Hong Kong and Singapore. Low regulation and low taxation. Watch this country collapse under quasi Communist crap such as VAT where big corporates are unnaffected but everyone else is getting squeezed to death by taxes.

>>17713177
VAT is one of the least worst form of taxation, taxing income (labour) and corporation is much worse for the economy than taxing sales.

>>17712729
The UK government is absolutely rapacious. Look at the effective income tax rates on everybody who actually works for a living. Then they want a 20% consumption tax on top of that. Then add in all of the random stuff like TV loicense, car registration fees, etc. You're working for the government more than half of the year.

>>17714128
Don't bother with him. He thinks the UK will become like Hong Kong if they raise the corporate tax, tariff imports to hell and abolish VAT.

>>17714008

Yeah but the margin scheme leads to a cliff edge when you pass £85k turnover, in that way it applies to turnover. It means that as soon as you are £1 over £85k you have to pay a further 16.67% on all profit (even the 12k tax free allowance)... This leads many small business to go on holiday once they near £85k, this is obviously a negative for the country as a whole.... But also relevant, as the guy said in this video >>17713232
>Listen to the guy at 38:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14PnVuxhqRo
many businesses just stomach the 20% tax on turnover as it is practically impossible to charge the customer a further 20% for vat in a lot of cases.

>>17714008

It is part of the scam... Everyone is saying joining the EU is good because we don't have to pay tariffs, but all that has happened is the tax has been shifted to VAT. We are probably paying more than we were before, and with much more paperwork and harm to business.

>>17714128
>VAT is one of the least worst form of taxation, taxing income (labour) and corporation is much worse for the economy than taxing sales.

Says who? My sales are my labour fgt. Why why should I be taxed more for sales than someone working a job?

In reference to Corporations, they should be taxed at the same rate as everyone else. There should be a flat tax on profit/income, that is it.

>>17714155

Yeah mate and don't forget about National Insurance (also 'payment on account'), it all goes to the same tax pot yet they act like it is some kind of seperate pension fund. The least they could do was be honest with their tax rates.. Stealth taxes all over the place.

>>17714157
>Don't bother with him. He thinks the UK will become like Hong Kong if they raise the corporate tax, tariff imports to hell and abolish VAT.
No, I don't want to raise taxes on corporates, I just want to get rid of loopholes.


My goal is for everyone to be taxed at the same percentage, a completely flat rate. Maybe 10 or 25 percent maximum..... People will be taxed on income/profit/capital gains at the same level... No loopholes, no tax havens. That is a fair system, that is a system that encourages success.

>>17713488
Should tax themselves 100% first cheeky buggers. Lifetime pension for 5 years sitting?

>>17714157

Wait a minute, I thought you liked more taxes? (the reason you want to keep VAT)................. What do you have against charging import tax on goods from the EU? For one they sell more to us than we sell to them. If we can get rid of VAT, who gives a shit about a little of tax on EU imports.. Quite frankly it will also help crush the European economy, something that they want to happen to Britain.

>>17714317

M8 they should tax the shit out of themselves...... You see what they do with expenses? They literally just get given wads of cash tax free and it doesn't matter how they spend it... Plebs like use can only declare expenses as a cost against profit, and we need receipts for that. Let alone their pensions and special tax deals.

>>17714322
Wat, no, why would I want more taxes? However, I'm not sure if I'd want my country to lose 20% of its national budget overnight.
Import tariffs could work, but they'd have to be very high to compensate for the loss of VAT tax, making imported products very expensive for customers. At least that's how it looks to me.

>>17714396

I am ok with lower tariffs with other countries, but we need to charge a lot on EU goods, to make sure we do the most we can to harm the EU economy.

The point I am making is that I am ok with taxes, but when taxes are structured in a certain way they disincentivize the growth of the economy.. Taxes should not disincentivize progressing as a business. Most businesses would prefer a smaller, simpler sales tax like in America rather than VAT.

>>17714467
Taxes will inevitably disincentivize the growth of the economy. The balance between business environment and public services is a question of ideology

>>17714531

Taxes on profit are one thing, its simple, the paperwork is easy, fine, fair, easy (though of course it damages growth to an extent). VAT is bad because for one, you are penalized for turning over more than £85k (paperwork avalanche, either 16% further on profit, having to increase your prices by 20% or stomaching the 20% cost yourself in a lot of cases). As the guy said in the video referenced above, he is actually paying the 20% turnover rate himself, not the customer. In a lot of businesses it is not possible to charge 20% to the customer.

There can be a tax system that is more symbiotic with business rather than crushing it. For starters, the only thing that is relevant is how much profit/income is being made. People are taxed on profit/income, done. Secondly, if the taxes are too harshly graduated, people will stop working at certain thresholds. The benefit of a more flat tax is that people are not disincentivize from earning more.

>>17714531

>>17714531

sorry if i got a bit ratty desu. bitcoin etc got me down, salute