/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17011366
>Eternal life given to everyone who simply trusts that Jesus paid for all their sins on the cross, was buried and rose the third day.

Anon...

>>17011383
But how does this help me in this life..

>>17011366
If you understand the spiritual reality in which this world was conceived and following a trajectory of evolution, you can better understand the world and this comes in handy, on all sorts of levels, spiritually, emotionally and you can better understand and thus deal with economic and (socio)politics. There is a battle raging between good and evil. On the one side we have Jesus who preached selflessness, as those are the principles of heaven, and on the other side we have Lucifer being selfish at the expense of everybody and everything. Few people know this, on the one hand there are few christians aware of this spiritual reality, on the other side there are those who are illuminated by the the Luciferian side and have a distorted version of the truth. 99 percent don't know about all this and are like cattle, being played between these forces. In the apocalypse that is soon to dawn upon the earth battlelines will be drawn. The true gospel of salvation by grace through faith leading to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and His fruits (kindness, patience, love etc.) versus the luciferian gospel of "enlightenment" currently being promoted in the media by the all-seeing-eye symbolism by the media, this third eye signifies their version of the gospel, if you accept it you will feel like on a whole new level of existence, I have personally experienced this, it's a miracle I got out alive, took me a lot of blood sweat and tears. Anyway use this knowledge to your advantage.

>>17011410
You will literally have God on your side instead of being under His wrath anon.

Watch this, get saved and start praying, God will help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEBz25lGdY&feature=emb_title

>>17011366

You can not even grasp eternity. It has no end nor beginning.

I can not fathom how dumb faggots want to remain in a lake of fire when you can go to heaven.

Also the Bible is extremely anti-Semetic. Based beyond measure.

>>17011447
Surely this cannot be the reality, I need more proof of this..

>>17011518

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvNLvheMhqs

these people think they made a good deal, check out Shaquille O Neill who openly professes to be a freemason;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbsN7V4GwuA

Posession is the mark of the beast (NWO) in the endtimes. devil can't openly present his mark on this earth just like that, he creates a breed of idols and powerful men in powerful positions to play his game.

>>17011518
.

>>17011518
>>17011518
The Beast out of the Sea

13 The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.[b]

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10
“If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”[d]

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people. The Beast out of the Earth

>>17011518
Catholic church is NOT Biblical Christianity. It is the opposite.

>>17011410

Think of it this way, anon. Theology is a science. There's an objective nature to it. Whether or not Jesus rose from the dead is up for debate, but we can be absolutely certain that there exists a concrete answer to the Jesus myth. If you look into early Church history you'll see the soundness of the historiography and philosophy that the early Jesus followers used, who were overwhelmingly Greeks who had a deep appreciation for their philosophical tradition and thinking about things rationally.

Through years of shitposting with disagreeable Christcuck neckbeards, I came to the conclusion that Catholicism is literally true.

>>17011518
The Beast out of the Earth

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.

>>17011518
,

>>17011518
Mark of the beast coming.

>>17011518
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>>17011518
Here is my personal testimony anon, I've seen angels and demons and I've seen Jesus. It is very real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJeBOfvLGA

>>17011518
a beast in the bible represents a power of a kingdom, fire represents the holy spirit, the seal of God represents salvation by the grace through faith and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The first beast represents the New World Order, it will solve a lot of problems from the perspective of international security, from the perspective of the environment, from the perspective of migration etc. etc. sovereignty is going to be centralized, the story of the tower of Babylon was a prophetic story in this regard. The second beast sad to say is also knows as the whore of Babylon(Babylon=NWO) and I believe it represents the Papacy going rogue, being deceived and deceiving with false powers (the fire coming down from heaven). The image of the beast then represents all religions coming together under the false gospel, the whole world will be illuminated by Lucifer, except those who stay true and loyal to the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

>>17011366
>>17011562

And seriously, don't listen to this stooge. If you want to consider the possibility of Jesus really being who he said he was, you can't place that kind of claim in it's own special box where you just believe it's true because it's in the Bible. Look into the origins of Jesus in history yourself with an honest mind and God won't lead you astray. I'm convinced you can more or less prove by deduction that Catholicism is true once you accept Jesus at his word, the rest is just pure logic. But it starts by confronting Jesus in history yourself and putting this issue to bed for yourself. This is either the most important thing in your life, or it's a Jewish conspiracy. No middle ground here bud.

Dominus vobiscum

because many of the major institutions of civilizations all come from this book.

Sodomites. Literally the whole explanation for degenerates, especially lgbt.
Semites. Comes from one of the 3 sons of Noah.
King Solomon and Hiram Abiff. The founder of Masonry. And also, the star of david comes from solomons seal.
Theres also the Jesuits and the Knights of Malta who all worked with the CIA

The bible is the foundation of many many things of this world.
It gets clouded by a bunch of blow hard bible thumpers like this guy >>17011639 that scares people away from reading it though.

>>17011639
Catholicism is not true, anon should read the bible and then look at catholicism. It is easy to see as it literally goes against 95% of the bible.

>>17011366
XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP XRP

>>17011595
>says frogs
>depicts flies
Inconsistent.

by the way the head being wounded and healed refers to the fact that the NWO is the incarnation of the Roman Empire. There were 7 kingdoms throughout history that ruled the earth according to the bible. Rome was the 7th and it will also be the 8th in the form of the NWO.

the bible says the only unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which means taking the counterfeit spirit of the devil and let it inhabit and rule you. Guess what is going to happen in the endtimes?

>>17011639
Also anon you should watch this friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LJWxkj1xW8&t=

You've been deceived. Hope you get saved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Vdj1FpP-A

>>17011733
all systems are "false" in the sense that nobody has the full truth, I believe most of God His people are members of the Catholic church. There is a difference between the institution and the people, it's not a monolithic structural organization. There is both good and bad inside it. I think fundamentalism is another trap, Jesus preached against that, best form of christianity is the form where science and atheistic criticisms are taken seriously and not dismissed but absorbed till the extent that they are valid.

>>17011705
why that sin in particular?
what counts as blasphemy against the holy spirit?

>>17011766
Anon, most catholics are not saved. It is sad to see you fell for this meme too. Read your bible.

>>17011795
https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/Doctrines/unpardonable.htm

>>17011795
Well the gospel is that naturally we are fallen human beings (greedy, selfish, let's say accustomed to the selfish principles we see in nature). To be born again means that we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, then the Holy Spirit comes to live inside you and you are no longer a slave to the forces that bind you on this earth. Not saying there won't be struggles with this synergy (there will). Anyway when you get posessed with the spirit of demons/lucifer you become the opposite, the devil offers you stuff that appeals to your natural state of being in return for power, or doing his bidding, in the process you become like him. That's why at the final judgement the devil and his angels and those whom he has deceived and are now like him will be destroyed. (this is basic theology). So blasphemy against the Holy Spirit I believe is calling the spirit of the devil the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit the spirit of the devil (spiritual reality upside down). This also fits neatly into the story where Jesus talks about this sin when the Pharisees say that Jesus drives out demons by the power of the devil. This also fits with the explanation I just given regarding Revelations 13 and the spiritual reality we see unfolding on our world today.

>>17011869
They are not destroyed, they are burning forever:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. - Rev 14:11

>>17011816
as long as they not accepted the spirit of the devil I don't think we are in a position to judge, that also is blasphemy (to take the position of God). I know there is a lot of stuff wrong with the catholic church but I refuse to believe God does not consider its people His currently. We are all fools and sinners, we need unity in strenght, truth and honour, we need to find common ground, while at the same time maintaining the fundamentals of the gospel. But I agree, the church breeds narcissism and I believe will become a victim to the devil in the endtimes (as portrayed in Revelations 13 and other aspects of the book).

>>17011914
Anon, belief in a false works based gospel does not save you. You have very little knowledge of salvation.

Any person who believes in a works based gospel is unsaved and is headed for hell. The catholic church is the whore of babylon, the great harlot.

>>17011910
It's the only verse in the bible I believe that seems to imply eternal torture, although I am not God or an authority on this matter, I think there are many verses talking about the destruction of body and soul, and the consuming of the wicked to ashes. I believe "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever" refers to the fact that the consequences of the judgement will be final. I believe all the lost will receive a proportional judgements (Jesus also stressed this).

>>17011931
>Going against clear bible verses.

Good luck with that.

>>17011930
I agree, a false work based gospel does not save you, trust me I know very much about salvation, in fact I have thoroughly studied it for years, salvation is by grace through faith alone, if you count on your works you are appealing to pride which is counteracting the work of the Holy Spirit, yet I believe many people within the catholic church walk by spirit not by doctrine per se.

>>17011951
No idea how you came to that conclusion if you're faith alone and OSAS. Very strange.

Jesus clearly says few there be that find the way to salvation.

>>17011940
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

How does eternal torture = destruction of soul and body in hell?

Malachi says;

ut for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall. 3Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.

Again I am not saying there is or is no eternal hell, I am just saying from a rational perspective, taking into accounts all verses dealing with hell, it seems likely/possible that hell= destruction of body and soul with fire at the final judgement.

>>17011959
not saying you are wrong here, but I can imagine if God is love, is he going to let the good people within the church who walk by Spirit and don't concern themselves with a work based gospel, salvation? I find that hard to believe.

>>17011535
>>17011541
>>17011548
>>17011562
>>17011564
>>17011571
>>17011572
>>17011581
>>17011595
>>17011617
>>17011618
>>17011639
This is all loosely affiliated and I don't see any credible proof of a Christian prophecy. You'll have to do better than that /biz/.

>>17011869
Is smoking weed considered to be an offer of Lucifer or a gift from god?

>>17011518

>>17011986
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. - Rev 20:10

1. Here we read satan is cast into the lake of fire and will be tormented 24/7.
2. The false prophet and the antichrist are in this lake of fire and have been there for 1000 years, they are not "destroyed" the way you think of it, they are literally burning in torment forever.

3. Destruction does not mean stop existing anon, hell is utter destruction of body and soul, you still exist. When you destroy something it doesn't stop existing.

>>17012004
>And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

1. Only God is good.
2. People are decieved anon, MOST people who have ever lived will burn forever in hell, not because God is not loving, but because we are evil and reject salvation.
3. Catholics love their works salvation, they love their rituals, their idols, their statues, their pope, etc.

God has given plenty of chances to people.

Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
-----

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

>>17012008
That's up to you anon, you've been given truth. Do what you want from here, I'm not here to convince only to share the gospel.

My main problem with religions is that they seem to be very specifically designed for sheep. The whole "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and all other "good" stuff is made purely to contain and control the masses. In exchange they promise you heaven which is this ultra happy peaceful place full of bliss. And if you don't comply, you'll be sent to this horrible place called hell where you burn for an eternity.

>>17012008
Not going to drop a thousands page thesis here, if you want truth you are going to have to do your own research ultimately.

>>17012014
Lucifer IS God.
Yahweh is Satan.

>>17012014
I think it's neither, it can be beneficial or harmful regarding the specific context.

>>17012051
Been a long time since I studied the milennium but isn't it basically a prison sentence for the devil and the angels till the final judgement? (Destruction?)

Regarding the gospel, I realise the significance of it, so I don't dare to say you are wrong, I think you are right we should take it very seriously, and I also believe the institution breeds a lot of evils, and has committed horrible evils during the inquisition, yes I think about the common people who are officially members but don't concern themselves to much with it, if you desire to know God and walk by faith, I don't think God would deny salvation, I believe it's a matter of the heart and only God knows.

>>17012068
Yawheh was God made in the image of the Jewish culture at the time, Israel was a tiny nation dominated by big empires, they used God as a means of propaganda and reflected their culture at their time and place with all of its horrible atrocities. That's why there is such a disconnect with the God of the NT because Jesus is nothing like Yawheh, although I think Jesus can and will be fierce as well dealing with his enemies eventually. Evil is like a cancer for existence, so tolerance of it is unacceptable.

>>17012139
I think you misunderstand, can a saved believer be a catholic? Absolutely. Jesus paid for all sins, that includes the sin of being in a false religion.

But what I'm talking about is the fact that most of those catholics are not saved to begin with, so they never had their sins forgiven, which means they will go to hell, even though they think they wont.

Of course if you believe the gospel you're saved forever, no matter what sin you might do or be in. OSAS = once saved always saved.

If I believe on Jesus and then tomorrow I become a muslim and bomb myself to death, I am still going to heaven, I wont be rewarded, I wont have a good position in heaven or anything of the sort, but I'll be there, I can never go to hell.

Hope you understand what Im saying.

Salvation can never be lost once you have it. Eternal life is eternal.

>>17012062
I am not a fan of religion either and I don't think Jesus either till the extent that He was very much a heart-person rather than a rital/power-person.

>>17012194
Agreed. Religion is a man made false way to heaven.

Jesus said simply believe the gospel and you're saved.

>>17011366
the only religious text worth reading is the Bitcoin Whitepaper written by Craig Wright

>>17012183
I am careful with absolutist statements regarding the metaphysical, however I believe we are pretty much on the same page. I believe circumcision was a symbol of what happens when you accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour, it's a painful experience and your old self has to die, how can people who rely upon priestly confessions, rituals and statue worship for salvation experience this circumcision of the heart? But again, I don't want to talk in absolutist terms, I believe God knows our hearts and judges accordingly, we people like to categorize and have absolute clearity, put a stamp on people and dismiss or approve them altogether, I believe God can reach out on an individual level as well, I am much more openminded regarding the possibility that perhaps people can walk with God by Spirit and maybe don't even know it. It's a very hard subject and personally I don't want to be dogmatic, I don't think Jesus was.

>>17012239
Jesus was.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The context of this verse in Matthew 7 is talking about how we can know who a false prophet is and who is a false professing Christian.

By their fruit ye shall know them, meaning you will know who is saved by what gospel they preach.

An unsaved person can do a bunch of good works and donate money and look amazing to us, but if he does not preach the right gospel, we know for a fact he's not of God.

Now, can a saved person fall into heresy and preach a false gospel? Absolutely, this was happening in Hebrews with the jews being tempted to go back to judaism after being saved, but in general, this is how you know who is of God and who isnt.

It is the best we humans have, as we cannot see the heart, unlike God.

So when someone tells me they believe they need to be a good person or obey the bible and the commandments >>>for salvation<<< I know that they are not saved based on that.

>>17012288
I think you are right, good works are a sign of justification never the root of it. Let me give a simple example, Seventh Day Adventists adhere to a false gospel of sabbath worship, on the outside they look like nice Godly people doing all the works, but when I confronted them with the gospel they became really nasty, like evil nasty, this shows the true state of their hearts and demonstrates how anything other than the true gospel (salvation by grace through faith alone) cannot save people. But what about the sincere atheists who do good works not expecting any rewards whatsoever?

>>17012350
Exactly yeah, in James we read about it, how now that we are saved we SHOULD do good works, otherwise we're being bad Christians, still saved mind you, even if we did 0 works and were lazy and sinned etc, but no rewards in heaven.

Every single person who goes to hell deserves to go there brother, I do, you do, we all do. Only those who love God and accept His free gift will be spared. This is the way God has made salvation, salvation is the easiest thing in the universe, yet people reject it, why?

Because they are evil, they hate God and want nothing to do with Him, so they will have to pay for their sins themselves, which they can never do, thus, hell is forever.

>>17012381
I think there are a lot of christians turning to atheism because the church as a whole has not updated according to the newest scientific insights. We know many of the OT stories likely were not historical (shouldn't matter to christians because we can accept them as parables/prophecies), the fact that the universe is billions of years old and the fact of evolution (again shouldn't matter to christians since God is outside of time and space and evolution is just a very sophisticated way of making creatures that are not like robots) and ofcourse matters like hell. I think it's very important to take into account how the doctrine came to be (the hellenistic influence etc.), I believe Bart Ehrman has written a good book about it. I think Bart Ehrman is a one-stop-shop for any critical thinker, and has tremendous value for christians precisely because he is not biased and has a scientific mind. What I am saying is that on the surface there seem to be many valid reasons for rejecting christianity. They are not eventually, but what about such people? Bart Ehrman rejects christianity because of the problem of evil, it's not because Bart is evil and hates God. It's because he doesn't understand that the answer to the problem of evil is that fact that there is a problem of evil, but he can't see that because he studies the bible with a dogmatic point of view, and then the bible doesn't seem to make sense. What I am saying is that we should hold fast to the gospel and never toy with it, but all the other issues we should put under critical scrutiny and not be too dogmatic about it. But maybe you are right and Bart is still saved even though he doesn't know it (OSAS).

>>17011366
You can read both you know.

>>17012517
Every single thing in the bible is 100% factual and accurate. It is not just some stories, it is historical facts.

I have a lot of science videos and philosophy videos on my channel, look it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba5JN2NDI6A

>>17012694
thanks for the channel, I have actually been there done that, grew up christian, then studied Blavatsky teachings had some occult/illumination experiences, then repented when I realised what I was dealing with, then studied seventh day adventism, then fundamental christianity, then liberal christianity, then agnosticism/atheism, and finally my own critical version of christianity that makes sense to me (I can accept all facts of science as they are and at the same time adhere to the fundamentals of christianity). I think trying to adhere to creationism and the bible as literal truths in the OT, is a form of religionism. It's trying to preserve the christian religion in the wrong way. The right way to do it, is to say ok let's take all these newest scientific insights into account and see what remains. When you do that you get a special focus on Jesus all from the book of Genesis towards Revelations. It's all about Jesus. So in our era holding on to fundamentalism is a form of religion (which you just acknowledged is a bad thing). I think therefore that it is wrong, we can trust our scientists. But many people don't understand that accepting science and dismissing the OT stories as historical truths, does no harm to the christian faith, quite the contrary. But thanks for your channel will check it out.

>>17012232
This. So much this.

>>17012829
Jesus in the NT, affirmed the OT creation story.

Now you have a problem, anon. I am scientific background and I guarantee you, that science is extremely biased and takes huge leaps in their own worldviews and make the evidence fit.

Example: Grand canyon, atheists and Christians both have the same evidence, same stones, same grand canyon.

It is the worldview that you hold, which interprets the evidence you are presented with.

Atheist: A small amount of water carved this out during a long period of time. Millions of years.

Christian: a huge amount of water carved this out in a short period of time.

Do not be fooled by science so called, as the bible says.

>>17012829
And one more thing, Bart is extremely biased, I've read his works. William Lane Craig would destroy all his arguments, so would Frank Turek, so would John Lennox, Ravi Z, etc.

I suggest you look at both sides of the story, mainstream science is biased and fundamentally naturalistic / atheistic in it's views.

>>17012694
I am not saying the OT stories are not just some stories, they are not historical facts but they are very important from a theological point of view. Right in the beginning of Genesis we basically understand our natural fallen state, and we get the gospel and the prophecy that the devil would crush the heel of Jesus at the cross and Jesus would crush the head of the snake/devil eventually. This story and the story of Noah has a lot of assimilation from other cultures/stories in the region, but the theological twist gives it its significance, these are all theological stories, it makes them more important than if they were actually historical truths. Story of the tower of Babel and the Nephilim is a prophecy about the endtimes (tower of Babel being the NWO) and the offspring of demons being those who accept the mark of the beast (luciferian gospel). All throughout the OT the stories were a mixture of some historical truths, propaganda, but through it all the Holy Spirit has woven His theological truths in it, I believe we should hold on to the theological essence.

>>17011676
What were the previous 6? Where does it say 7 in the bible?

>>17012918
Jesus affirmed them as historical, they happened, the flood happened, all of it is true. You're going to have to do more studying is all, use the channel, search for "science, DNA, history" etc and you'll find good stuff.

Good luck anon, God bless.

>>17012066
>>17012066
>Not going to drop a thousands page thesis here, if you want truth you are going to have to do your own research ultimately.

Guide us- What books should we read?

>>17012877
I agree and see your point. However I believe science is the study of the forces of God as he put it in place. Science is very complex with many different disciplines and each discipline is intertwined with the other disciplines. Therefore it seems to me very unlikely that scientists are wrong regarding evolution and the age of the earth. God is complex, reality is complex, it's the church that can't deal with these complex realities and therefore retreats into childish superstituous thinking. It's not a salvational matter, we are not saved by believing either in an old world or a young world, and I think the church as a whole should be able to accomodate both views. We don't know exactly which sayings of Jesus were historical, but if he referred to a young earth it's probably because people at the time understood Genesis to be literal, we know better now.

>>17012994
This is a short video, but genetic entropy proves evolution is impossible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLY_Ghwukf0

Evolution is also impossible, because there has never been a single case, in the history of science, in any single field, ever, that genetic information has been added to the genome.

That is a fundamental step to evolution, information being added. Like code being added to a program, it's never been observed. Why? Because the law of information dictates that information can only be achieved by an intelligent sender, it can never appear on it's own.

This video also utterly destroys any type of evolution nonsense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z9gTrwm2v4

Just search for evolution on the channel.

Good luck anon.

>>17012994
This one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMA41EVDhqw

Highly recommended.

>>17012892
of all those mentioned I think John Lennox is the best one, I understand both positions and both sides. I hold a view which is critical of both positions actually. It's like Bart and other critics they win when it comes to adhering to intellectual realities of our complex existence, but the defenders of the faith win when it comes to fundamental theological truths and making sense of the world from a spiritual point of view. Personally I combine both aspects and that to me explains all of reality. Atheism has a lot of flaws from a critical perspective, it can't account for the origin of the forces of nature that have created this universe and all that it contains, nor the fine-tuning, it has to dismiss the idea that there is good and evil etc. and there is a ton more, but christianity in general also has many flaws, by adhering to fundamentalism in an age of science and progress, thinking that they have to do that because otherwise nobody would believe in it anymore. There is a third way and it's the only way forward I believe. But I understand many people are not ready for it yet.

The arguments for Gods and Jesus have to be made seperately. For if one does not accept the very premise of God, then one need not argue that he became flesh.

Arguments for God:
1.1 Every contingent fact has an explanation.
1.2 There is a contingent fact that includes all other contingent facts.
1.3 Therefore, there is an explanation of this fact.
1.4 This explanation must involve a necessary being.
2.1 Good and Evil exist in some form
2.2 For Good and Evil to exist they must be absolutes otherwise they would be mere opinions
2.3 Good and Evil cannot be part of the material realm for then they would be either subject to change and time or subjective creations aka opinions.
2.4 Good and Evil exist outside the material universe
3.1 The mind is the most complex thing
3.2 Since 1.2 is right, there must be something more complex than the mind
3.3 There must exist some kind of super mind
Combine the necessary being of 1.4, the supreme Good of 2.4 (for evil is perversion of Good and not a dualist entity) and the highest mind from 3.3 into one thing for the highest simplicity and call that being God.

>>17013053
Arguments for Jesus:
1.1 There existed a historical Jesus in some form. (The historical evidence is overhelming and to deny his existence in any form is akin to denying the existence of Alexander or Ceasar.)
1.2 This Jesus was not just a "good moral teacher"
- claimed to be able to forgive sins
- claimed to have supreme judgement over others
- claimed to have supreme authority over others
- claimed to return after death
1.3 Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic or the Lord.
1.3 A Jesus was a liar:
- According to human nature we only lie if we think to gain from it. Jesus was martyred for his "lies" and never dropped the act. Additionally he kept all his "lies" straight over the course of his life.
1.3 B Jesus was a lunatic
- If Jesus was a lunatic why was he able to argue with the pharisses in the temple so well. Why are his words so consistent? Why was he able to amass so many fallowers? Why didn't the Romans pronounce him a lunatic?
1.4 Jesus is who he claims to be.

Everything that is not encompassed in the liar, lunatic, lord-trilema just shifts the same arguments on the apostles.
Instead of one liar, twelve existed who were all martyred for a lie they had no reason to keep.
Instead of one lunatic, twelve existed that suffered from the same mass dillusion and kept the story straight for the rest of their lives.
Since the Arguments for God created the possibility of a metaphysical realm, Jesus being Lord is not an impossible explanation.

>>17011455
I entered this thread for the purpose of posting that video
Good on you, brother

>>17012932
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Roman empire, something like that.

Rev 17:9-11 – 9“Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

>>17013072
God bless you brother!

>>17013033
thanks for the insights, another way of looking at it would be, it proves that evolution is perhaps not as random and blind as science in general currently wants you to believe, especially regarding stasis evolution also. I don't believe there are gaps in science btw because God His ways are untracable, but we can see the manifestation of His power in nature.

>>17012981
I think you should study the bible from a spiritual point of view, the basis about Jesus, the devil, and how it manifests on earth. On the other hand I think it's helpful to study science in general and like previously mentioned the books of Bart Ehrman.

>>17013152
Again, Jesus on several occasions affirmed the flood for example, as a historical fact. You have a problem now, I gave you the tools to deal with the problem. Up to you what you do now. At least you're saved, but this half in half out type of thing you're doing is wrong and it shows me you're not of a scientific background. Now I'm out, good luck!

>>17013185
lol okay let's agree to disagree then, we are still brothers, it's these discussions that are very helpful so thanks for your time and will watch some of your videos perhaps later on. Just going to say that I believe Jesus sees us as children and talks to us like we are children according to the knowledge that we have. Jesus used the Jewish frame of reference because that is what the Jews knew, in our age He probably would have used our understanding of evolution. Anyway thanks again and God bless.

>>17011366
>Wouldn't something like Wealth of Nations be better to read than this?
no

>>17012932
7th empire was probably Byzantine empire, and the eigth I think refers to the Roman empire reincarnated into the New World Order. I believe God makes this similarity because also the Roman empire waged war against Jesus from a prophetic point of view (the prophecies of the book of Daniel). Also it was the Roman empire who started persecuting christians, destroyed Jerusalem and made the Jews go into exile etc. It was also the biggest empire I believe at that time, you couldn't argue with its might and power, dissenters were crushed. Lots of similarities of what I think prophecy tells us is going to happen in the last days to those who refuse to bow down to the New World Order and the NWO religion. Wish I lived longer so I could perhaps witness all this unfolding.

maybe you guys can solve this, who is the seventh king and who is the eight king?

Babylon, the Prostitute on the Beast

17 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

babylon the great

the mother of prostitutes

and of the abominations of the earth.

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

>>17013587
btw a woman in the bible always refers to a church, it shouldn't be too hard to guess which church this prophecy is talking about...

>>17013587
think I solved it, was a little confused with the seventh and eight. The seventh king only stays for a short while, the eight must be the NWO, I think the seventh refers to this; In 1929 the head of the Italian government, at the time the Italian Fascist leader Benito Mussolini, ended the crisis between unified Italy and the Holy See by negotiating the Lateran Treaty, signed by the two parties. This recognized the sovereignty of the Holy See over a newly created international territorial entity, the Vatican City State, limited to a token territory. This makes sense if you consider that the NWO belongs to the seven (both to the Roman empire and to the Vatican state). So the 8th is of the seven because it contains both components (the sixth and the seventh head)

Catholics are bad, trust me it's in my own version of the bible by the church of England

>>17012981
C.S. Lewis is good

>>17011705
I thought the only one was despair - the belief that oneself cannot be redeemed

>>17013878
where did you get that idea from?

>>17012517
>I think there are a lot of christians turning to atheism because the church as a whole has not updated according to the newest scientific insights.
or maybe its just because people have better shit to do?

>>17013072
lmao this is absolute cope for people that have done fucked up shit and keep on doing it. if you are a shitty human being youre going to hell my dude. but be my guess and keep on coping if it makes you feel any better

>>17015128
Where do you draw the line? What sins bring one to hell?

And how would any of you even know that we are not already in what would be considered hell? You idiots really think beings are going to be burning for eternity huh? If there is a hell this is it.

>>17011564
Have a look at this anon from Catechism of the Catholic Church: 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

>>17011366
Here is what all religions attempt to solve and fail: give peace to your soul and set you free from sin...Christ does both when you humbly ask Him for these things. I suggest you start here: https://ia800200.us.archive.org/25/items/AtTheMastersFeetBySadhuSundarSingh-UploadedByPeter-johnParisis/AtTheMastersFeetBySadhuSundarSingh.pdf

>>17011564

>>17017978
The Catholic church is the devil's church, subversion and idoltory.

Telling others to help the poor while sitting on his golden throne.

>>17011366
Proverbs is, it's essentially the world's first economics textbook, and much still rings true today. You can throw out the rest of the book though.

>>17018036
>one of the few establishments that offer shelter overnight to the homeless, especially here where I live
>homeless just choose to stay homeless to keep their shit from being stolen and keep their squatting spot safe
>also same catholic churches provide breakfast or lunch for them every day there's a scheduled service (typically Wendesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays, and Sundays)
It might vary, but I live in shithole California, but even then the Catholics here are pretty based.

>>17011366
It’s the word of God

God’s word is always true

Read the King James Version if you decide to read it and also if parts seem difficult to you, just keep reading. The Bible is filled with gems

>>17011795
Going forcefully against God's plan. Things like mass genocide etc.

>>17012171
Yawheh is literally the father of Jesus, the Abrahamic God. That's why you can see the difference in their personalities

>>17018359
>it’s the word of god because other humans say it’s the word of god

Makes sense

>>17019171
Yawheh was a perception of how the Jews thought God was, they tried to make sense of their situation, if the one true God was on their side why were they oppressed by neighbouring powers? Scriptures tells us because Jews were unfaithful to their God, but I think that was the way Jews could make sense of it. The truth is they were a people not meant to rule on this fallen world, but to prepare the world for Jesus the Messiah who would ultimately defeat Lucifer and his minions, putting a stop to the rebellion and finishing evil.

>>17018359
>It’s the word of God
Wrong you retarded protestant.

>>17011366
You should start with the Greeks.

>>17011366
Literally the best choice in life you can do is start reading Romans in a kjv. Go check out tsabs.info

>>17018047
Its a good start, but rest is just as good.
t. going to re-read Proverbs

>>17011383
fpbp

>>17018047
>>17019616
There's more to the Bible than Proverbs, but its definitely the part that I would recommend every single person read.

>>17019753
Is the new world version of the bible any good at all? Or is it pozzed up?

>>17019781
Sure. If you're coming from a non-denominational or atheist perspective, it really doesn't matter as long as you can read it. Certain denominations prefer certain Bibles.

KJV is more challenging but most people consider it the most beautifully written.

>>17015128
You've never sinned then, that's incredible
Never even told a single lie
How is it that you've never sinned?

>>17013072
wow, i get free eternal life if i just believe in jesus! i cant wait to tell my underage sex slaves about this! how neat!

>>17020841
it doesn't work that way anon, if you are truly saved God His spirit comes to live inside of you, He will compell your conscience to get rid of your old life, your new self will be different. You cannot be saved and not have the fruits of the Holy Spirit

>>17011447

This guys is 100% right. God wants to bring us together, to love each other in spite of sin. The devil wants to break us apart. Once you see the world in these terms things become more clear.