/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>16937612

Indeed they can't. For BTC this will become very apparent around the halving, when people realize it doesn't have nearly the volume required for it to be profitable for miners (except by insane tx fees in the range of hundreds of dollars per tx).

ETH is just a poor joke, always has been, always will be.

>>16937612
That’s not what your mother said last night.

>>16937656
nigga just double the btc price and you can double the fees

>>16937783

That's called a pyramid scheme; that's not sustainable.

«In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for [mining] nodes. I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.»
—Satoshi Nakamoto

>>16937612
JUST USE LIGHTNING !! ITS THE BEST!!

ITS FULLY PEER TO PEER, MEGA ULTRA DECENTRALIZED, REQUIRES JUST 6 SHORT DAYS TO SETUP (WHICH IS LESS THAN A WEEK, SO DANG FAST HUH?) AND YOU CAN KEEP IT UP 24/7 IF YOU WANT TO RECIEVE MONIES! SO COOL TECHNOLOGIES. SUPER DUPER ANONANMOUSE AND ENDORSED BY BASED A F GREG MARXWELL AND ANDAM BACKS. IF YOU ARE LUCKY YOU GET TO USE THE SUPER COOL THUNDERBOLT ICON ON TWITTER WHICH SIGNALS YOU ARE PART OF THE CLUB HEHE

>>16938317
this is not reddit

>>16937808
based and comb pilled

>>16937612
How the hell do you come up with these gifs? Lmao

>>16937721
I bet you gave her a big blocks hard fork

>>16937808
yep. Monero's dynamic blocksize and tail emission are actual solutions to this problem. Haven't seen anything good promoted by Bitcoin to preserve the mining network.

>>16937656
Not this shit again

>>/biz/thread/S1214767#p1217266

>>16937783
>>16937808
BTC block reward has increased in fiat constantly

https://bitcoinvisuals.com/chain-block-reward

The game theory forces price to go up because miners are not going to sell at a loss and they are the base monetary supply since they are the only ones forced to sell.

>>16939960
So pretty much bitcoin is going to go up forever but eventually almost level off at some point as each halvening happens

>>16939983
You bring an interesting question definitely a question above the normalfag idiot here.

Because one can speculate the sensibility of this effect will decrease as the miners represent less and less of the coins in movement.

Hoever.....

1_BTC dormant coins keep rising because people trust this game theory thus the miners remain being the biggest supply of coins in circulation.

2_The inflation goes bellow fiat in the next halving so the price may go up forever relative to things with higher inflation like fiat , but maybe not relative to housing.

Hard to explain but if the fiat system is already so fucked up it's hard to define what is "going up", stocks are also going up relative to a growing monetary base.

>>16939960
This is based on the assumption that demand will stay the same. If demand is lower and miner fees are higher then the price will fall as block rewards go down. You also run the risk of a deflationary spiral if there is no inflation.

>>16940087
Yes Monero tail emission is better but even if the demand collapsed the halving means that you need half the fiat entering to sustain the previous price.

There is a reason the block reward went up in fiat even tough less btc were mined , the game theory works , miners won't sell bellow electric costs this causes a bottleneck in supply triggering the price rise and upward volatility.

This also causes the bubble tough i think btc and xmr will be the first two post volatility cryptos due to their low inflation post 2021.

I mean xmr will only mine about 400 coins per day during the peak btc halving bullrun in 2021 and btc will mine 900 coins per day.
It does not take a genius to realize the low inflation will start to make crypto stable to the shock of the entire community.

>>16940087
Also

>If demand is lower and miner fees are higher then the price will fall as block rewards go down

If the demand is lower miner fees will also be lower and price will also go down.
This is the same for xmr or venezuelan bolivar less demand = less worthy the currency is.

>You also run the risk of a deflationary spiral if there is no inflation.

I doubt it if you would have told people 10 years ago that 1 BTC would be something of extreme desire they would have laughed at you.

All it happened is that people added more 0s , not the best solution for utility but not a deflationary disaster.

This would be bad if crypto were the standard tough but it's not bad if crypto is still floating in an ocean of keynsian stupidty.

>>16940200
>If the demand is lower miner fees will also be lower and price will also go down.

I meant transaction fees being higher because the Bitcoin network is transitioning towards having no future block rewards and having transactions entirely dependent on transaction fees.

Additionally if Bitcoin is transitioning to a second layer, it lessens the incentive for miners if everything is being operated on the second layer.

>>16940338
>I meant transaction fees being higher because the Bitcoin network is transitioning towards having no future block rewards and having transactions entirely dependent on transaction fees.

Yea but that will happen in 2140 anon , the argument of well 99% will be mined by 2030 so the 1% does not matter does not go well with me.

I mean monero with tail emission will also tend towards 0 inflation, mining those last btc for a century will still be a pretty good business since the price will go up as inflation goes down.

That said that is extreme long term , thanksfully monero and eth are working on that to some degree.

>>16940338
>Additionally if Bitcoin is transitioning to a second layer, it lessens the incentive for miners if everything is being operated on the second layer.

Not really look at the fees here

https://mempool.space/

Check the block reward 95% of it is the mined coins , not the fees.
The fees are a meme , the reason the price goes up is becasue less supply + constant demand and that also makes more worthy the mined coins per block in fiat as this chart shows.

https://bitcoinvisuals.com/chain-block-reward

That said XMR definitely uses a better model but btc model is not as flawed as people would like to think.

>>16940418
Yeah fees are low now but they are going to go up greatly once the block reward is gone. I don't see how else it would be profitable for miners to continue.
While a lot of your logic is sound, it still hedges on the assumption that bitcoin demand is going to still be higher than other cryptos in the long run. I think it's highly unlikely that a currency can still have demand if it isn't fungible and if literally every transaction can be tracked on the open ledger. As the market becomes more rational, this is going to push people to better options, such as Monero.

>>16940492
>Yeah fees are low now but they are going to go up greatly once the block reward is gone. I don't see how else it would be profitable for miners to continue.

But the block reward will be gonne in 120 years anon , the thing is that everyone expected fees to be the biggest part of the miner income by now.
Instead what happened is that the percentage of block reward / fee remained the same since 2010 the only thing that changed is that the price went up to compensate the smaller block reward and instead the block rewards increased in fiat.

>While a lot of your logic is sound, it still hedges on the assumption that bitcoin demand is going to still be higher than other cryptos in the long run.

It will because no other coin except eth (to a small degree) managed to create p2p liquidity, ltc almost make it , but asics centralized mining in the nations were p2p trading was the less needed and fucked liquidity in places were p2p trading was needed.

Only btc managed to achieve global liquidity even bch has failed in this.
Monero may make it with randomX since it allows anyone to trade electricty for hard currency.

>As the market becomes more rational, this is going to push people to better options, such as Monero.

It's not as privacy it's more about liquidity , stability ,inflation , the privacy is a plus no doubt but it's not the thing pushing the price up for all the boomer media memes about crypto being used for illegal stuff the reality is that most people use it to buy stuff online paying less fees in big purchases.

Monero big plus is it's low inflation

https://www.viewbase.com/inflation

400 xmr more or less will be mined in late 2021 during the peak of the btc bullrun.
It's going to gain a lot of momentum along with dash, ltc and a few others.

>>16940591
>But the block reward will be gonne in 120 years anon

Well technically yeah, but by 2028 the reward will be pushed to 1.5 per block yes? It's a pretty significant drop and unless demand for Bitcoin stays high you will see a price consolidation match this lower block reward. And again if Bitcoin moves to a second layer it will also disrupt the market for miners.

Bitcoin has liquidity but it is slow and every single transaction can be tracked. You are highly underrating financial privacy and what it means to people. It's taboo to talk about salary and literally nobody would be okay with a financial model that somebody can browse through a literal ledger showing your entire payment history.

I think Bitcoin will be around long term and that it's transition to a store of value vs a currency is something that should be embraced. But as far as an actual fungible currency? Monero's tech is better in virtually every category.

>but it's not the thing pushing the price up for all the boomer media memes about crypto being used for illegal stuff the reality is that most people use it to buy stuff online paying less fees in big purchases.


Exactly, and the bottom line is that with Monero you can evade taxes. It's the ultimate use case anon, and once the general public realizes that, Monero will become the digitial Swiss Bank.

Monero's inflation is just icing on the cake ;)

>>16937808
>few decades
can you read English you fucking streetshitter?

>>16940723
>Well technically yeah, but by 2028 the reward will be pushed to 1.5 per block yes? It's a pretty significant drop and unless demand for Bitcoin stays high you will see a price consolidation match this lower block reward. And again if Bitcoin moves to a second layer it will also disrupt the market for miners.

You may be right but i am not sure i would not be suprised if that does not matter because the block reward in fiat keeps increasing.
It's hard to model this shit because the 2010-2013(post first halving) block reward get's the data fucked up by the introduction of mining pools which divided the work thus it's expected the price to rise as the mining cost rise with it.

But by studying the second halving we can see the block reward went up more or less 36 times in fiat(while in sats it decreased by half).

Would not be suprised if in late 2021 the block reward reaches 1.58 MILLIONS per block.
Again can predict if there will be a decrease in this effect because the first halving data is fucked but it seems to be rising with each halving.

>Bitcoin has liquidity but it is slow and every single transaction can be tracked. You are highly underrating financial privacy and what it means to people. It's taboo to talk about salary and literally nobody would be okay with a financial model that somebody can browse through a literal ledger showing your entire payment history.

You are correct but most crypto REAL usage not speculation is being used as wires to buy shit online since fees are fixed and not a % the bigger the tx is the less fees you pay this big payments are done with crypto.

>Exactly, and the bottom line is that with Monero you can evade taxes. It's the ultimate use case anon, and once the general public realizes that, Monero will become the digitial Swiss Bank.

BTC is already that but Monero will be ultimatelly that because the powers that rule this world are retarded and will keep pushing until everyone moves to xmr or dash.

>>16937612
>My father once took me on a trip to an undisclosed section in the Amazon jungle to observe an uncontacted tribe. He liked to call them the "Primars", where the untouched, raw, virgin nature of Human beings were fully exhibited. With their highest level of technology being a blowdart and fire, the Primars avoided interaction with outsiders. Our observation post was in a camouflaged vehicle a good 200 meters from the tribe. One day the Primar tribe gathered around a smoky, intoxicating jungle bonfire. The boys, who were to become men, each walked up and inhaled the fumes of the fire one by one. My father told me to pay close attention what happened next. The boys lined up, and the first in line was given a small wooden spear and a blow-pipe with darts. He then ventured down a path into the thicker part of the jungle alone. The Jungle Cams on our vehicle showed us what was occurring. This boy, with no more than 12 winters under his belt, was walking up to a cave where a Jaguar lived. That's when it happened, before even entering the cave, the big cat leapt out of the shrubs nearby and tore into this boy's neck and belly. His innards laid exposed, his hands still firmly grasping the spear and failing to pierce the cat, his eyes twitching. He was being eaten alive. I vomited. My father asked me what I thought the purpose of this ritual was. I replied though my barely conscious, traumatized-mind that it was some sort of manhood ritual. My father simply stated, "No, but that's what those boys thought too". The reality was, those boys were alive during a time where the resources of the tribe were scarce and limited. I couldn't believe this is what humans were truly like.
Well Mr. Anonymous, they are. You are not the Jaguar in the story, you are not the Primars, not the little boys who were eaten alive. YOU are the vomit on the floor, and you're trying to convince of investing in your internet scam coin. Tell me, why should I bother wasting my time with you?