/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15813304
>I am not looking for Ancap responses
stay stupid and deluded my friend

>>15813304
Eq and neg rates are gov scam to get mainstreet to buy wallstreet bags before the crash

>>15813304
ok downtown josh brown

Ass Nigger ass poo in poopy cum poop ass poop poopy ass nigger balls ballsack is with poop a nigger duck and and a poop in my butt nigger cum butt nigger cum in ass poopy cum is poop because ass

>>15813304
First, convince me that everything was terrible and the monetary system was in ruins before 1913

Yeah, essential for the fiscal policy of reigning in the genius plebian inventors profit margins back into the kings coffers. Very nice subsidys, wow much tech progress grants, yis sir its we the people dat know best and we da poople dat allow such good laws to be made like Fiscal policies xdddd

Forget cars, weve invented.... Medicines.... And iphones..... And diversity.... Fuck electricity was kind of huge wasnt it?? This dude literally created light out of rocks, that was pretty fucking awesome wasnt it....

In short pee pee poo poo anon is based

why do you need (((monetary policy))), just let people be free of central bank controls and if some make mistakes, others wont have to suffer from them.

OP is a faggot.

>>15813348
An Ancap society = Corporate Feudalism. Prove to me otherwise.

>>15813470
Shut the fuck up retard. Without monetary policy we can't stimulate demand during recessions

>>15813304
>(I am not looking for Ancap responses)
>What's 2+2? And don't say 4, give a real answer!

>>15813512
Great. Fuck the poor.

>>15813523
Ancap response would be 44

>>15813512
>we

>>15813304
I can't wait until God destroys you all.

>>15813543
Where are you watching this shitshow from?

>>15813535
Be careful what you wish for anon, poor people vastly outnumber you, you don't want them to fuck you in turn it would be extremely painful

>>15813523
So instead of two masters who keep each other somewhat in check you wish to submit yourself to Lord Bezos and his Majesty the Zucc?

>>15813557
It's a given it will happen, especially in my country. Fortunately my uncle has plenty of guns. At least I'll take down hundreds of shitskins before I go.

>>15813348
Ancaps are retarded manchildren
die in fire

>>15813348

>literally advocates for neofudalism

>>15813405

Depressions/recessions are less frequent and severe compared to the pre-1913 era. This is generally accepted fact.

>>15813505
Ancap literally just describes life. We already live in an ancap society, you can influence anyone you want to at any time and try any means avaliable to get what you want. Unfortunately everybody else can do that too, and some are huge cucks that have a vested interest in making sure what you are doing makes them happy and are willing to have a longer attention span and be more ingenious then you to go to the lengths required to make sure you have not touched your pepe in an unacceptable way. So really you already live in an Ancap society and are just too stupid to realize it and think laws have meaning and are set in stone morals or something instead of entirely flexible social constructs that can be changed in your favor given the right motivation and solutions to accomplish such a task.

Fucking r*dditors

>>15813304
Sure, but that central bank would better serve its host nation if were ran by that nation as apposed to being run by a private corporation and shareholders who have NEVER been audited once.

>>15813612
Nice try antard but not even Epstein managed to get away with his sick shit at the end of the day

>>15813641
Epstein was memoryholed retard

>>15813405
>>15813470

>Let's go back to 19th century laissez-faire governance and majority privately owned national banks when entire families worked 12+ hour workdays for meager pay; the 1800s were trully a golden age for the well-being of the common man weren't they anon?

>>15813599
>Depressions/recessions are less frequent and severe compared to the pre-1913 era

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>generally accepted fact
By who? Mr. Hooknose & Company?

>>15813641
Did I say every law was equal? No retard I didnt, my whole argument was based on how laws are entirely malleable, and for one reason or another peoples motivations and desires clashed in such a way he was sent to jail over a law about child trafficking proclaiming he had enough evidence to justify such a law. Never once did I say the rich always win, I literally said you can TRY to manipulate people in any way you want including possibly money, sometimes it may not work and you know what shit happens.

>>15813651
epstein probably has/had money flowing into tether

>>15813304
They are not necessary for fiscal policy per se. Lawmakers are hypothetically going to use their analysis and actions in their decision making but congress is congress and often times that pesky normativity gets in the way of positive economics.
>>15813470
Before Volcker we used to have dumb inflation and deflation events. All you're really asking for it moar volatility
Notice how right after Volcker gets a hold of the Fed we start having more time between recessions and they are shorter on average when they do happen.
>>15813678
They are. And not only that but mean volatility is also lower.
>pic
Fed is not deciding what the inflation rate is, they are measuring what it is based on prices actually observed in the market. You could measure it yourself, go to a walmart and record prices for a year. Increased aggregate demand in expansions is ultimately what drives it. And before CB congress used to control monetary policy which was a disaster because politicians have motives that are not strictly economic and tend to be kind of shortsighted.

>>15813612
I am not praising the system that we live in for being benevolent anon, I simply observe the fact that the State is neccassary for keeping
privately wielded power from becoming the sole authority that we must submit ourselves to.

supplementary

>>15813304
why is the fed independent if the end goal is effective fiscal policy? effective fiscal policy has absolutely nothing to do with monetary policy or the fed's mandate. I don't see what they have to do with the implementation of effective fiscal policy (which I don't think the US has). Is the US unique in this regard? do other countries' central banks consider fiscal policy in their implementation of monetary policy?

>>15813752
I understand that the Fed isn't needed for the enactment of fiscal legislation, but without the ability to control the interest rate and inflation such legislation would be largely ineffectual. Impediments from Congress or from some other machination are a secondary consideration.

>>15813512
Any demand created when times are tough is fake and always inflates an even bigger bubble. We did this so many times, we have literal "feel good managers" working in companies, making 6 figures because we created enough fake demand for them. All this shit will crumble when everyone realises the emperor has no clothes. I don't know if your generation still played outside but when it rained, puddles of water formed in the sand of playgrounds and we used to connect them with little "rivers" we dug in the sand. When they weren't deep/steep enough for the water to flow from one puddle to the other, I used to push it with my hand and make waves. It brought some water over and I was happy for a bit but it didn't solve the problem, in fact it got worse because I destroyed the little river for good as the sand got straightened out by the waves and it was even less steep than before. This is what (((monetary))) policy does. It just creates inflation so the rich can shove some water into their pockets when nobody is giving it to them naturally anymore but in doing so you're fucking with everything through inflation, bad investments, wrong allocation of resources, etc. You can never solve a crisis with policies, you can only get out of the way for the people (the market) to straighten it out by itself.

>>15813806
Monetary policy informs fiscal policy, the fed isnt responsible for fiscal directly but the enactment of fiscal legislation necessitates control of the currency in order for said legislation to be effective.

>>15813892
>you can only get out of the way for the people (the market) to straighten it out by itself.

Talk about feel good bullshit. The market isn't a magical remedy that can fix everything wrong

>>15813512
recessions are very isolated to certain industries in free markets, and are much rarer and less impactful.

>>15813670
t. read "muh gilded age" textbooks
you know nothing about american history or the founding fathers. degenerate communist fag.

>>15813304
>Central Banks are essential for the implementation of monetary policy and thus essential for the implementation of effective fiscal policy

if this were the case there would be no depressions/recessions and very minor inflation...oh wait

>>15813929
The market is also not the people, if anything it is a very small subset of the people, a handful of wealthy men who can move it on their own at their will

>>15813393


>>15813454


>>15813500


>>15813539


>>15813543


>>15813678


Go back to Pol you brainlets.

>>15813470
yeah wouldn't that be a "free market"? Why does it need to be regulated? besides maybe some trust busting. nothing but disaster since then. on purpose.

>>15813929
You're right, when people don't want to buy your shitty little video game because they barely can cover their rent and food costs, we should take some money out of the emergency fund and invest it in the video game company because they really struggle with all the low demand :)

>>15813405
It was chaos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_central_banking_in_the_United_States#1837%E2%80%931862:_%22Free_Banking%22_Era

>>15813304
>I am not looking for Ancap responses
Then fuck off back to plebbit

>>15813512
Oh u can't game the market? It will have to work itsself out organically based on supply and demand? Oh the horror! You are seriously fucking retarded. NOW GO BACK

Anons, ancap is a meme.

See the truth, the light, the way.

The evils of government income taxation slow progress and lead us away from prosperity, but do not forget the other evil, that of the rentseeker who acts like a de-facto government.

Seek georgism, privatize the labor and capital, publicize the land and patents.

>>15813505
>>15813512
>>15813537
>>15813535
>>15813583
You fucking idiots don’t know it yet...but with the injection of scalable smart contracts and proof of work based privacy crypto’s...an ancap society is literally inevitable. Your shitty dork opinions don’t matter: governments won’t be able to support themselves when they’re competing with sound money and the extreme inhuman efficiency of truly decentralized finance.

The world is about to become brutally Darwinian and capitalistic in a way none of you low iq fucking retarded pajeets can stop.

Ancaps have already won.

>>15813945
Believing that keeping the wealthy from abusing the poor and believing that taxation for the purpose of investment into society is a good thing makes me a communist does it now?

>>15814023
mah dude

>>15814023
Your scammy shitcoins have no relevance to the real world

>>15814022
Your statement is literal ancap tho. Ancaps are against patents because if I can produce your little bolt better and cheaper, I should be free to do so. And if you can defend a piece of land, it's yours. To all little gov cucks, this goes deeper than your pea mind understands because communities can still defend their shit collectively in a high trust society.

>>15814030
the wealthy cant abuse the poor with competition, and no-competition scenarios only ever exist because of government mandates.

>>15813968
what is the point of this post?

>>15813304
you need monetary policy because of central banks and the way they decided to structure things, not the other way around.

some cryptocurrencies are the hardest money to ever exist, things like managing inflation rates and supply goes out the window when you have actual real money flowing through the economy.

the federal reserve essentially created a system that depends on them to exist and continually balance the world economy. and its sad to see ppl that claim they understand finance defending such a broken philosophy.

OP is a fag. Looking forward to spitting in your cup when you’re begging for spare change.

>>15814023
mfw

>>15814023
Proof of work is a meme. Smart contracts will make society more equitable and thus better for the poor.

>>15814057
You cant have a high trust society when might is right.

>>15814094
I'm not poor but I care about the poor unlike you.

>>15814046
>Your scammy shitcoins have no relevance to the real world
Fucking brainwashed plebs. We are here because this shit is the future. I will however let you suck me off for 20 RSR in the very near future.

>>15814111
>Proof of work is a meme
You are extremely retarded and don't understand any of this. Smart contracts are a meme and practically useless so far. Chainlink is absolutely a useless scam. Buy bitcoin faggot.

Or a no-competion scenario can arise when a company ruthlessly obliterates all competion without the state intervening such as is the case with Amazon.

>>15814057
Anon, this post is very low iq.

According to you then everything is Ancap because laws aren't actually real things. And if everything is ancap, then nothing is because so it becomes a useless definition.

>>15814154
Yes chainlink is a scam. Smart contracts, however have the potential to positively impact our financial system. Bitcoin is the only proof of work crypto with a future since it acts as the de facto unit of exchange within the crypto-sphere, name me another proof of work coin that can either supplant bitcoin or that has potential for wide scale use in transactions outside of the crypto-sphere.

>>15814063
See post below.
>>15814156

>>15814188
Work on your reading comprehension, where do I talk about laws. I literally point out that the guy is against any firm of illegitimate enforcement of fake property rights. That's what a cap is. Anti patent, anti government issued property rights. You own what you can defend or what you can trust someone with to defend.

>>15814328
>you own what you can defend
What can of retard would want to return to barbarism, the fundamental purpose of government is to universally protect the rights of it's citizens so that they won't live under the yolk of a warlord.

>>15814359
The government is a literal mobster warlord. Without it, in a white society, this wouldn't turn into barbarism. I lived in places where I could park my car left open in front of my unlocked door and sleep like a baby, I also lived in places where I got my car antenna stolen. Guess which one of those places was full of brown people

>>15814023
The Bilderberg Group owns BTC. You're not correct.

>>15814386
White society used to be a warlord society until governments built upon trust and democracy were established. The government woudn't be a mobster warlord as you say it is if it guarunteed you any rights; the displeasure that you may have with the current state of... the State does not justify this hyperbole. The development of fair(er) governance allowed white society to move away from feudalism and develop into a high-trust one in the first place.

>>15813304
omnes in servitutem redigerent

>>15813304
>and thus essential for the implementation of effective fiscal policy

also essential for the implementation of ineffective fiscal policy so...
basically the monarchy catch 22
it works as long as a swell guy is running the show

Check out all the faggots in this literal cucklyfe celebration of a post

>>15813304
You're correct but every institution requires a certain degree of competent oversight and regulatory containt, which most central banks lack.

>>15814521
Constraint

>>15814521


>>15814510

The system that we have now is better than prior systems but there is still a lot of room for improvement I agree.

>>15814515
Your always being cucked by someone who holds greater power than you wether you like it or not anon, I prefer the lesser of the cuckeries that are options to us.

Privately owned caret printing 'money' and charging governments to borrow it....

What could be better.

Happy Hanukkah everyone!

They're key to monetary policy. Monetary policy goes hand in hand with fiscal policy. However both of those get hijacked by special interests, with monetary policy being somewhat more insulated from this than fiscal policy by design.

>not looking for Ancap responses

Ancaps are nuts but Libertarians don't realize that they're basically Ancaps with extra steps.

>>15814421
>t. Retard who has never written a line of code in his life

>>15814955
>doesn't understand the function of interest rates.

>>15813613
All but one of them are.
The S Federal Reserve is the only central bank with any private equity in it. All others have either been nationalized (like the Bank of England was in 1946) or been entirely in the public sector from day 1.

Of course there are a lot of retards out there who can't accept this fact, as they'd rather believe the conspiracy website that claims the Rothschilds own every central bank except those of the three countries America's most likely to go to war with. And what those three countries are gets periodically updated...

>>15815178
Sorry about the typo. Of course that should be "The US Federal Reserve)

>>15814156
they have government mandated patents.

>Please inform me of other opinions
>Except the one line of rational thought which is, of course, the other opinion

Based retard

>>15815191
Amazon's patent acquisition began and snowballed as it was already becoming the dominant e-commerce player which it became by undercutting and crowding out competitors with it's larger war chest. Just so you know anon, if government patents didn't exist some form of private patent guarantoor system and patent market would still emerge.

>>15813348
>anarchy
>capitalism
Pick one.

>>15815211
>Living in an Ancap society would be so great anon, we would all be able to live in off-grid, homestead Mcmansions in peace and totally not become utterly subservient serfs to the Coporatocracy.

>>15815477

There are two kinds of people who advocate for Ancapistan. The kind you describe, and the kind who delusionally think they'd be in charge of the Corporatocracy.

>>15813963
go back to >>>/r/eddit faggot

>>15813304
Eternally forced inflation by deficit spending is designed to make wagies believe they are getting raises when they're not, and designed to keep savers from retiring (how are you going to retire when bonds yield 1-2%).

>>15815416
you have no idea how an actual free market would work.

>>15816308
Inflation is only 2% dude, if you're not getting more than that a year you are the cuckest of wagecucks

>>15816333
Whatever you say fren, if you think that in a world in which government patents didn't exist that the existing power structures of wealth woudn't gobble up innovation regardless then you are deluded. Ironically, government patents protect the little guy as they prevent the big players from simply stealing innovation from the little player and forcing him out of business by leveraging against him the Capital Machine that he does not posses (i.e. Nortel); at least with a government patent the little man can sell his patent for Capital if he is unsure of or uninterested in competeing against the other, established players.

>>15813304
OP is the biggest flaming faggot i've ever fuckng seen on 4chan in all my 9 years of being on this god forsaken site.

>>15816308
The purpose of inflation is to encourage spending, investing etc... so that the economy grows over time you absolute brainlet. If the currency was deflationary consumers would be less inclined to spend their dollars if the dollar of tomorrow is worth more than the dollar of today, and investors would be less eager to take on risk if their money was growing just by sitting in the bank; thus the economic engine slows down and so does prosperity.

>>15816694
If you aren't an Ancap fag then go ahead and make your pitch for how the state should manage the economy.

>>15813670
>banks caused nascent industrial workplaces to be shitty

Explain your point, dipshit.

>>15816704
It's implementing nominal growth by way of mandate via lending spreads, at the expense of purchasing power and debasement of the currency. How does it help the little guy to have 2 cents of every dollar mugged from him per annum so financial institutions don't go tits up?

>>15816740
Lending and debt are the lifeblood of the modern economy; the small, medium, even large business takes on debt to expand operations in order to overtake competitors, the middle class family takes on a mortgage in order to have a home for their kids to grow in, nations take out debt in order to invest in infrastructure, subsidies for budding/vulnerable industrial sectors, military projects etc... in order to maintain competitive with other nations. A small yearly inflation bolsters said lending as well as spending thus bolstering economic development which ultimately improves the material situation of the common man in the long run. A deprecciating currency would hurt everyone, including the common man, as the subsequent economic slowdown would make jobs more scarce, mortgages harder to attain as a low mortgage rate would mean more people would be trying to enter the housing market etc...

>>15816910
>A small yearly inflation bolsters said lending as well as spending

Give me a causal mechanism. Even if someone were to agree with you (which I generally do) you are providing zero causation for your position.

>>15816719
I relpied to two different posts in haste and entangled two seperate statements that should have been made as different points.

Private banking in the mid-19th century was a poor model as the banks, with no higher authority holding them in check, usually, if not always, did not hold sufficient reserves of gold and silver that they claimed they held in order to back the value of the notes that they issued as it was in their interest to issue more notes with supposed gold backing than the gold backing that said bank actually had. Essentially, banks of that era were USDT equivalents and had an average lifespan of only five years as bank collapses were common when suspicion would arise that a certain bank could not back it's notes; suspicions that would be confirmed when the bank would shut down in the event of a mass withdrawel when said suspicion would turn into panic. This, obviously, was a major impediment to the integrity of the financial system during the Free Banking Era.

>>15817063
Ok, did that cause workplaces to use child labor or dangerous machinery? Naturally it did not; even well-capitalized industries used both of those things.

>>15813304
To anyone saying a small annual inflation bolsters anything:

Everyone wants for a certain ratio of spending to saving. The amount a bank is able to lend is not a function of savings, but rather a function of what their laws allow. That is the nature of fractional reserves: any amount of savings can result in any amount of lending the law allows.

The question of manipulating inflation is ONLY the folks in charge of that manipulation making a decision. Having anyone at all in charge of the decision, rather than a democratic or algorithmic process, implies at least some degree of self-interest for a small group at the expense of a large group.

Prove I'm wrong in asserting that is, by its very nature, an inescapably bad outcome.

>>15817075
The indifference of the state to working conditions and workers rights did, but my point about banks was derived from the anon who said that we should disband the fed and let everyone do their own thing, meaning a return to solely private banks. I slapped the two statements together and they read as though I imply that they correlate but that was a mistake on my part in framing my response.

>>15813304
No, natural interests are better.

>>15816930
We can look at an example of a country which has negative rates, Japan as a prominent example, wherein the Bank of Japan is purchasing more than 40 percent of the bond market in order to prop up the price of bonds and keep them from collapsing as a result of negative rates rendering the yield of Japanese bonds to negative or near negative rates. Negative rates may work if the short-term stimulus that they induce is effective, but if not we end up like Japan.

>>15817082

OP was again a faggot today
and keeps being a faggot

Policy makers aim to set a rate that corresponds to what the natural rate would be. The fed functions to ensure this rate and adjust it only if a dire economic situation arises.

>>15817104

>>15817135
Go back to posting about shitcoins if you aren't able to intellectually engage with a subject that pertains to real-world economics.

>Intellectual engagement
>Hasn't delivered one argument beside semantic babbling in 30 posts
yep faggot confirmed, go repeat your bullshit somewhere else

>>15817104
Firstly, better for what purpose?
Secondly, how would you define what qualifies as natural?

>>15817082
You have fallen for the fractional reserve meme.

In reality, reserves play no part in money creation because they're never the limiting factor. The real limiting factors are the Basel capital requirements and the supply of profitable customers to lend to.

>Having anyone at all in charge of the decision, rather than a democratic or algorithmic process, implies at least some degree of self-interest for a small group at the expense of a large group.
No it doesn't. Most countries have laws and procedures in place to prevent corruption.

>>15817220
Argument against or for what brainlet? The existance of the Fed? Wether it is important for fiscal policy and necessary for monetary? I posed a question to the anons in my original post and have been responding to a plethora of different responses in kind. Point out the specific argument that I failed to make for a specific point that I was trying to make in this thread.

>central planning works!

>>15813304

>>15813304
>Central Banks are essential for the implementation of monetary policy and thus essential for the implementation of effective fiscal policy
Literally who said? The international bankers who fund the FED?

>>15813304
central banks are necessary to implement a monetary policy that is against the wants of the people it affects. I.e if anyone had political representation in the decisions of the fed they would not vote to have their wealth devalued via inflation to maximise their employment.
A monetary policy by the elected government (money issued by the treasury) is defined by the constitution and executed by representatives who are responsible to election. In any case central banking is a dictatorship contrary to the constitution.

The only real question is should we implement unconstitutional monetary policy while at war, and does the geopolitical situation since the end of ww2 meet our criteria for the definition of war.

Your interpretation of that question will lead you to believe either :
We are living in the most subtlety tyrannical system in history given there has never been a civilization that has defined value relative to economic growth to make its citizens poor so that they cannot stop working so to maximize the redistribution of value from individuals to the collective output of the economy at the expense of said individuals lived experience.
Or you believe that what has been done to the United states over the past 100 years has been a necessary sacrifice to fight off the communism that believes said mechanism of debasement is the way all the world should be run indefinitely (humans are a resource to be wielded to maximise the collective economical output vs society is a system in service to the pursuit of happiness)

>>15817818
Looking at it between those options isn't really the state of things however, looking at it as if central banking may be justified is extending an olive branch they don't deserve because no one understands the choice exists. The real state of things is that the majority of people on earth don't understand that any wealth has been stolen from them, they don't understand that keynesian monetary policy is socialism masquerading as capitalism, the same socialism the USA was set up in defiance of, the same socialism that hitler wanted. If people understood what central banks did there would be no debate on whether they should exist to fight socialism because there wouldn't be any socialism.

>>15817821

>>15813512
>Big daddy government can allocate investment better than the free market!

Yeah because all those niggers and single mothers have been a great return on investment so far haven't they soiboi?

KYS commie reddit scum

>>15818366
Little you realize that central banks are protecting the very system you love so much and that without sensible monetary policy it would get destroyed by insurrections, the irony is palpable

>>15814023
Proof of work will only fork for Bitcoin, it's not secure for everything else.

>>15818465
Again this is complete commie bullshit. How come capitalism did so well for thousands of years and managed not to destroy itself until (((they))) created central banks?

>>15818465

wtf i love my banker overlords now

>>15813355
>digits

>>15816397
2 percent my ass

>>15813393
based

>>15814136

Lol you sound like those inbred doomsday preppers in middle america. Failed at finding a meaningful place in the real world, powerless to change this & therefore all that's left is hoping for the world to burn down so that you may finally know how it feels to be respected.

It will never happen though. Even if the financial system burns down, the same people who kept it afloat will find a way to once again rule over you in the new world, because they are better than you.

>t. bank lobbyist

>>15818553
A lot of what you think of as capitalism was actually feudalism and mercantilism.
What do you regard as capitalism destroying itself?

>>15819306
Capitalism is currently destroying itself right now - we are transitioning to a system of global socialism and all the dystopian trappings that come with it

>constant surveillance
>free speech outlawed
>you don't own nothing goyim (plebs cannot accumulate assets as their wealth is continually drained away via inflation, they cannot escape as cash will be abolished)
>since cash will be abolished anyone dissenting can literally be starved to death via denying them access to the financial system
>native populations being replaced by easy to control 3rd worlders
>constant brainwashing through state media and globohomo corporations, your kids will be transgender freaks and paedophiles will fuck them regularly - if you disagree then the state will punish you
>estrogen, fluoride and onions put into the water supply
>population becoming fatter and more stupid, dysgenic
>trying to get rid of family to instead make everyone dependent on the state (you are no longer an individual with right to free expression, that would be dangerous)


Inb4 back to /pol/ - you cannot refute a single point I've mentioned.

>>15817821
This is a very thoughtful response, thank you. I understand what you say to be true, but what can you implement to change what we have now for the better? Should the Fed become beholden to another institution(s)? Should we return to the chaos of the Free Banking Era? Should we count on Smart Conracts and crypto in general to be able to create a better world?

>>15819382
Most of this has absolutely nothing to do with Capitalism and you are merely regurgitating some /pol/ spiel; Capitalism is being eroded im the sense that the Coporatocracy is making it harder and harder for the little man to start and sustain his small business.

>>15818553
I personally blame the abolition of slavery.
Damn, capitalism has gone downhill, cant even own people legally anymore

>>15818366
The free market was unable to pull the US out of the Great Depression, nor could it sustain a stable banking sytem in the 19 century.

>>15820094
It has everything to do with our current system of crony capitalism. We do not currently live under a capitalist system - if we did there would be no central bank and centrally planned monetary system.

One of Karl marxs first proposals under his system of communism is the establishment of a central Bank.

>>15820193
England had a central bank since 1697.
America had one pretty much after the revolution and has had one for 70% of its existence

>>15813304
Printed money can boost the economy, if it's not exaggerated, and done in time of natural economic growth.

>>15820193
Karl Marx was also in favor of public school; are you in favour of public schools? Capitalsim occurs with the enforcement of contracts and the protection of private property, a central bank affords a currency that we can all depend on not imploding; the free banking era was mired with banks that did in fact implode often which signicantly degraded the level of trust in finance which I'm sure we can all agree is a hindrance to Capitalist activity. See second post that is attached.


>>15817063

>>15813304
>I am not looking for Ancap responses

>>15820193
>muh capitalism
fucking bootlicker KYS

>>15820314
I am trying to create a sensible discussion that is grounded in reality thank you very much.

>>15813304
Ah yes the old
>you cant do it without us goys!
But then we do and then you shut them down

>>15820193
No shit genius. That was in the 1844 manuscripts. If you actually read the guy, and not like less than 1% of his work, you'll see that he is very critical of central banks. Check (of you course you won't) Das Kapital vol.1, Chapter 31. He heavily criticized the Bank of England (england central bank by then), he said that it's putting people into slavery with fake interests collected from taxes. Basically he described the central bank scam in 1867. Way before Eustace Mullins and internet vids.

>>15820339
The system that we have now is neccassarily complex in order to be able to properly steward today's complex economy; America is no longer an isolated backwoods of sustenance farming and cottage industry despite how much you may want for it to return, it spirit, to that origin.

>>15820341
Great point anon, giving Marx any degree of credit will usually derail the discussion into a sperg-fest on this board however; let's see if anon can maintain some civility and engage with the topic from a place of sincerity.

>>15820339
imagine if capital markets didn't develop they way they did and instead some totally crazy unimaginable way in an alternate timeline


you would still be here posting a chart of squares that pointed to different things in different ways and somehow still blame da joos

>>15820367
wrong. FED is operating the biggest ponzi scheme ever. What the fuck do you think titanic was all about?
>>15820437
Shut the fuck up jamie

>/pol/ fatalists
Not even once.

>>15820341
>if you actually wasted your time reading drivel written by a moron

I'm not reading marx for the same reason I'm not reading the Koran. It's pointless drivel designed to brainwash 90 IQ losers and soibois.

>>15820623
You don't need to be brainwashed.

>>15813304
>Central banks are essential
>But I'm not looking for responses from people that don't also believe that
Have fun in your echo chamber, buddy

>>15820479
I can underatand the argument that the Fed constrains the free market but how is it a ponzi? Or are you using the word ponzi as a synonym for "scam" and thus not using it appropriately?

>>15820623
Reading the material of those that hold opposing views to you helps you understand those people, and subsequently the world as a whole, to a greater extent.

>>15820701
Central banks are essential for the purposes that I outlined; I posed the question to foster (sensible) discussion. Alternative propositions and models exist that are not Ancap by default.

>>15813599
>Depressions and Recessions are less frequent and much more severe than before.

FIFY.


The American dollar has lost about 90 percent of its original value. This is 1 currency that's been completely destroyed by central/government controlled banking. This isn't even taking in the numerous, countless different currencies throughout history destroyed by government controlled or government enforced cartels. A private cartel enforced by government is still the problem of government, not free enterprise.

>>15820764
The dollar is being continuously, slowly devalued to encourage spending and investing and thus propel the economic engine faster than it would otherwise move.

>what does monetary policy pertain to
interest rates and inflation
>what does fiscal policy pertain to
tax and government spending
>what is the role of a central bank
To set interest rates through issuing bonds denoted in currency backed by the credit of the government, which in turn allows the government to borrow money to fund fiscal expansion; To control inflation through controlling the money supply. Please note how both complement the other and must essentially lead to perpetual inflation.
Furthermore, central banks control the exchange rate through various means; the exchange rate is important to keep exports competitive for a protectionist economy or to keep imports cheap for an economy focused more on free trade.

>are central banks essential for the implementation of monetary policy
If by implementation you mean that government edicts are carried out effectively, then yes, of course. In this sense, the central bank is simply a limb of the government.
>given the above, is monetary policy thus essential for the implementation of effective fiscal policy
Yes, certainly. There are great synergies to be gained from the proper combination of monetary and fiscal policy. For example, imagine the government wishes to stimulate demand; the central bank would then be told to push down interest rates and issue more bonds; thus both government spending and consumption both increase, raising aggregate demand.

All of the above is an artificial and dangerous way to achieve macroeconomic objectives which favors financial elites due to information asymmetry.
Without a central bank monetary policy would revert to a more natural, if volatile, order; fiscal policy would still be viable, though less effective; synergies between the two would be much more difficult to achieve.

>>15820781
Except the cost of living is rising in tandem with the increase in productivity. What's the point of the increase in productivity and investment if real wages are not rising, or rising microscopically, and the cost of living is much higher than it was before?

The whole point of productivity and investment, or advancing economically is that we should spend less, work less, and yet get the same amount as before, or get more than before. Yet what's happening now, is we're advancing economically, yet spending more, working more, to get the same as before, thanks to the cost of living rising, and real wages not catching up - because of inflation.


In addition, the Central Bank artificially lowering interest rates by pumping in money distorts investment into unproductive enterprises - because as credit is cheaper than before, the inventive to use it wisely is not as strong. Furthermore, the interest rate being distorted leads business to engage in longer processes of production than otherwise would have been - because business thinks there's more saving than consumption going on.

>>15820935
This. There's too many indoctrinated keynsian faggots in this thread who have no clue how it really works.

>>15820906
Is the volatile and eratic financial system of the past a favourable one to return to? Should another institution be given privy to/oversight over the Fed? Will smart contracts and decentralized crypto-finance turn everything on it's head and pave a new way forward?

>>15820935
The fact that GDP growth does not neccassarily translate to the increased prosperity of the citizen is a truth that I do not know how to address; all I know is that the systems that we had over a century and more ago were riddled with yet more egregious tumors and pustules than in the one that we find ourselves on today.

>>15813505
So the same shit but at least the power relations are formalized? Seems like a useful starting point for even attempting social change

>>15813512
Stop relying on abstractions such as "demand." Most demand we have is harmful and a waste of resources anyway. Concepts like "the economy" are created for neoliberal discourse.