/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15690177
People accepting it as money gives it intrinsic value. The intrinsic value is reinforced by computational effort instilling trustable (trustlessness) comparable to the backing of a questionable state.

Where the fuck have you been these past years?

>PoW

>>15690211
>People accepting it as money gives it intrinsic value.
Huh, guess the USD isn't fiat anymore.

It may be fiat but it's fiat where anyone with Bitcoin Core downloaded on their computer is their own bank, and can watch the market. Bitcoin has proven that centralised banks are effectively defunct and only further proves finance is run by elites.

>>15690333
USD is given value by the government

>>15690357
People accept it as money, so that gives it intrinsic value.

>>15690177
>power goes out
>btc disappears

>>15690177
Such a low piece of shit quality thread.
Is this some extremely retarded gold shill thread ? Or some pseudo communistic "the unmotivated, poor people did nothing wrong (literally)" topic? Can't even tell you to fuck off this way. Why did i even bump this 0/10 thread?!

>>15690393
except it's not
you see the magic of distributed technology is that it's distributed, in Bitcoin's case, the data exists in many places on all continents of the world. Power can go out, nuclear detonations can wipe out entire nations, solar flares can engulf the earth, some mad scientist can EMP the whole planet, yet bitcoin will still remain, because some greasy neckbeard out there, is running a full node in his basement on a an old laptop with a HDD.

>>15690393
> Year is 2040
> no more block rewards
> Lightning network doesn't pay fees to miners
> BTC disappears, BlockStream (The Bankers) win

Only convincing argument I heard to this is that bitcoin is backed by internet infrastructure.

But yes, bitcoin suffers from the same problems it decries fiat of.

>>15690177
Its callled SPECULATION.
That's when you buy an asset (asset lol) today hoping some some stupider chump (/biz) will pay more for it tomorrow.

hmmm maybe I should go all in on chainlink because biz is stupid enough to keep buying.

What backs the USD

>>15690510
Yeah but I cant use it if the power is out retard.
No power to my laptop. Cell phone battery died no way charge it. Can get LTE because power to cell towers are out.

>>15690550

>>15690575
soon without electricity you won't be able to transact in cashless society either retard

>>15690589
That's really just another example of speculation

>>15690177
>Bitcoin is backed by no external value

Electric bills.

>>15690589
Why didn't they just build more warships during the great depression like LOL

>>15690575
Mesh networks and solar panels you retarded fuck.

>>15690537
> Year is 2040
> no more block rewards
You mean 2140, dipshit. And LN won't stop on-chain txns.

>>15690365
No you're literally obligated to pay taxes in USD. That gives it a whole lot more value than buttcoin. Gold has value because you can touch it, it's shiny and people will always want it/need it. Same is not true of btc which is why it is inferior to PMs/cryptos with actual use cases i.e eth

bitcoin has value because it CAN be used as fiat but doesnt have the same issues, i.e. anyone who just prints shittons of it

>>15690643
Quantum computing is a few decades away and will be used to hack into every wallet.

>>15690670
>a few decades
Anon, I ...
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/9/23/20879485/google-quantum-supremacy-qubits-nasa

>>15690703
This can’t do anything to blockchain.

>>15690510
You are a moron

>>15690610
A carrier battle group is pretty much a sure thing.

>>15690736
>teleports behind you
>instahashes all new blocks
>nothing personal kid

>>15690177
trustless, immutable, fraudless, borderless value transfer

>>15690621
Like gold and mining costs?

>>15691365
Yeah but this means I, as someone who still decides that value, should
1) be afraid of the force backing it
2) recognize that as a legitimate backing
3) you act in the force in the first place.

It doesn't mean jack shit if you threaten me and I say no if I don't value my life, or my gun is bigger, etc.

>>15690177
Wait, I'm confused. Are you the brown one in the pic?

>>15690510
If something was to wipe out entire nations, nobody would care about some shitcoin that can only be sustained by an internet connection and by enormous amounts of scarce electricity. 51% attacks would probably become so easy to be laughable. Anybody with enough computing power would just be able to rewrite the blockchain.

>>15690177

More or less correct. In a mature, rational market, the utility of a payment coin would be reflected in its value, but the market is irrational and BTC is valued like it is because it was first to the scene to show the utility of blockchain and still more or less works, though not great. And chances are that with its status cemented as millennial gold, people (who are through and through irrational, never to change) will continue to value BTC the most of all payment coins. It just has the right history and public perception--- its a perfect storm of complicated and diverse factors which has made it the arbitrarily treasured digital gold. Which is why every tech guy who doesn't understand branding, psychology, and market irrationality is convinced (wrongfully) that nano or cardano or ripple or any of the other payment coins are gonna flip BTC.

BTC is digital gold by fiat, and because it is the apparent winner as the "store of value" coin, there is little room for other arbitrarily (speculatively) valued coins. Believe it or not, this is why tokenization of services in utility coins like BAT and LINK matters a lot. Only Bitcoin can be arbitrarily valued because that is simply how store of value works, and in the long term there can only be one. The only future for other tokens holding value is in their ability to power services that have real world demand. By making a token necessary for accessing a useful network or service--- and only that token for only that network--- whatever value that token has is tied to how useful and in demand that network is. It makes the economy surrounding that network more stable and as long as it functions well, the coin that powers it is not at risk of collapsing or having fluctuations from external factors. This, of course, will require serious real-world adoption of blockchain services for their tokens to escape the volatility of speculation and manipulation.

>>15690211


>>15690211

Wrong. By definition that gives it value "by fiat," or by declaration--- extrinsic, socially determined, arbitrary. That is very much the opposite of intrinsic.

You can buy gold and silver directly with BTC.

https://www.jmbullion.com/buying-gold-silver-bitcoin-faq/

So technically it is backed by precious metals and other goods that merchants will sell to you.

>>15692368
Arguing that bitcoin is not intrinsic in it's own right is a lost cause. Just because people cannot physically grasp it like shiny gold doesn't make it any less valuable. Gold is backed by thousands of years of valuation, bitcoin is comparatively brand new and already coveted as a secure way to trade among people. The intrinsic value lies in how it's reputation holds and how it operates, and we are far too early in my opinion to make a judgement on that.

>>15690621
...is bitcoin a creation by the power industry to move into the financial sector? two megaliths collide ha ha imagine that...would be crazy haha

>>15690670
>QC will be used to attack a measly $200B asset when it can literally destroy the entire financial infrastructure worth hundreds of trillions of dollars
I thought summer was over... Shouldn't you be doing homework?

>>15692551

I'm not arguing against it's real value; not once do I deny the validity of its (social) valuation. I actually think that BTC's value arising from "fiat" or agreement is the only thing that matters about it and is 100% valid. But the value is still not intrinsic--- I think you're confusing "intrinsic" with "valid," when it actually means "inherent" or "essential," or in a sense even "autonomous." I am arguing that it is actually completely reliant on social agreement--- absolutely not autonomous.

Then again, all value is reliant on the human demand for it in different contexts. If humans all died off, nothing would have "inherent" value. Value is only relevant to the human need for something in different situations, towards different ends. Gold would not have much value in a SHTF situation where baby formula and guns are probably a better store. In a stable society and world, BTC fills the need to have something in which humans can store and possibly transact value. It's very much an analog to gold.

The point is that utility tokens, for example, have their value tied much more explicitly to demand for their services and less to value by fiat or declaration. And BTC is more the latter.There is a spectrum.

>>15690177
Look up “fiat” ffs. No government decreed that bitcoin be a currency. The market came to a consensus that it had value.

>>15692655
Agree with all points however, in the current state of bitcoin(blockstream) It can be argued as well that valuation is also tied to their company, albeit not as much lightning network for example is a service on its way

>>15692780

Mm I personally doubt that people buying BTC--- even those in the know--- are purchasing it at current (or any) price with the value of Blockstream in mind. Arguing that to some degree it's a security for blockstream is a pretttttty far reach. I think BTC's value is perfectly speculative AND perfectly tied to its utility--- and that's possible because its utility is actually AS a speculative vehicle that people believe will hold or transport their wealth. Gold is the clear and discussed-to-death historical precedent for this type of speculative vehicle. As cash, it's shit, but as a digital gold and speculative vehicle, its utility is good as long as people believe in it. And the better its utility (the more people believe in it) the more valuable it becomes. People are delusional to believe that BTC will be used as cash for every day payments, nor should it be; it's meant for storing value with the possibility of being transacted, not meant to spent with high frequency. It's more likely to be moved only for very large transfers of wealth and converted back to fiat when people want spendable cash.