/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15032571
FACT

Pretty sure ETH will flip btc

But keep thinking that SoV narrative is enough

>>15032571
if this is true than crypto will ultimately fail. BTC is literally a ponzi scheme

>>15032597
Stfu no one cares

>>15032571
BTC is no longer bitcoin, p2p cash. Thats nano now.
Sorry corecuck good luck in the ponzi

>>15032571
Fuck off, newfag

>>15032617
lollll rotf NANO ?, HAHAHAHHAAHHA
holy shit , 99% down from 2017 ATH
hahahhahhaaaa

>>15032597
Everything else will fail other than btc.
>>15032626
how ironic, you probably think you are cool with a double single
>>15032590
ETH is just a tool, btc is way more, despise of the lesser technology, that's the redpîll

>>15032636
that just means its an amazing buying opportunity right now
NANO is definitely going to explode and take over the crypto market

>>15032571
Who cares. Shitcoins always and forever will give better gains. My OTO stack alone has done 5x more and will continue to do so

>>15032692
You mean Raiblocks, the thing everyone got for free and already 100x’d? Poor summer child

>>15032571
>Nothing will ever overtake bitcoin
BitCoin will.

>>15032636
I got most of mine at $0.1 and I'm continuing to buy.
NANO is what BTC saboteurs fear
BCH is good too
But NANO is a pure solution. No bullshit just freedom

>>15032571
https://twitter.com/KadaneZod/status/1155630474531708929?s=20
Then replo this trade if you've got the balls.

ULTIMATE
BROWN
SHORT

>>15032571
ETH already flipped it in tx volume.
ETH already flipped it in utility.
ETH will flip its market cap within five years.

>>15032590

It's most definitely enough. BTC is a brand at this point. Stood the test of time the longest. Known to the layman. Consistently goes up every 2-3 years. Did way better than gold in the last decade.

ETH with all its bells and whistles is just a TCP/IP layer for the internet. All the shit that will actually be valuable will be built on top of it. Ether itself has no incentive to shoot up in price anymore. People value the ecosystem not the token itself.

>>15033286
Furthermore it relies on cheap ETH

>>15032726
When is the BSV coinbase listing?

>>15032590
Why would ethereum ever be expensivem they need ETH to fuel stuff

>>15033286
>Ether itself has no incentive to shoot up in price anymore.
>what are staking rewards
>what is collateral locked in DeFi
>what is gas
>>15033380
No it doesn't. Do more research. Gas price is variable.

>>15032571
ever is a long fucking time buddy

>>15033286
0xBitcoin.

>>15032590
ETH is going to the fifth place.
1_BTC
2_BCH
3_LTC
4_XRP
5_ETH

ETH being inflationary makes it loses 10% of it's price per year , it won't survive the coming recession.

>>15032590
>Pretty sure ETH will flip btc
any day now...

>>15032626
>Fuck off, newfag
I love slapping by bitcoin cock on zoomer grill

>>15034838
>he doesn’t know eth is capped
>putting xrp in front of eth
>Bch at 2
You’re literally dumber than a box of rocks. Holy fuck

>>15034861
Yup. Brainlet prize winner right here.
>>15034838
>ETH being inflationary makes it loses 10% of it's price per year
I would tell you to research ETH 2.0's monetary policy, but you wouldn't understand it and don't deserve the gains it will bring.

>>15034861
Screencap that because it's going to happen by 2021.

>>15034873
ETH 2.0 won't come until 2022 at least , that's a 30% of inflation MINIMUM , if it's delayed until 2023 it will be 40%.

Literally losing 40% of it's value , do you think anyone is going to invest into it during a recession?

Btc is king forever. Stay mad.

>>15033286
>ETH with all its bells and whistles is just a TCP/IP layer for the internet. All the shit that will actually be valuable will be built on top of it. Ether itself has no incentive to shoot up in price anymore. People value the ecosystem not the token itself.

this. ethereum is great. it has a good chance at being the de facto global, secure, decentralized computer for programmable money. but ETH is not a good store of value and you shouldn't think of it as money. vitalik said that about a million times. it's gas. it's a commodity. the value will fluctuate with the amount of processing happening on ethereum.

it makes sense to build programmable currencies on top of ethereum, like erc20 or maybe one of the emerging new standards. this is why i'm unironically long on 0xbitcoin. it's not going to replace bitcoin, OP is right, but maybe 10% of bitcoin's future value could stand to migrate to 0xbitcoin instead.

bitcoin is like your gold vault. great store of value but a pain to transact and doesn't work easily with smart contracts. (only centralized solutions like wBTC with its kyc rules and other garbage.)

0xbitcoin is your smartgold purse. the value works like bitcoin, but it is native to the ethereum smart contract universe.

>>15035071
>0xbitcoin is your smartgold purse. the value works like bitcoin, but it is native to the ethereum smart contract universe.
This was an intelligent post up until the final line. People will use one of ETH's many, many stablecoins for daily transactions.

Correct, BTC will remain number 1 (in the next 10 years at least).
Top of this cycle will be ~$150k, next bottom ~$50k.
1mm in ~2027
"People overestimate what can be achieved in one year, but underestimate what can be achieved in ten years"
In that spirit, convert this shitcoin into BTC

>XLM 2 slots left
https://coinbase.com
/earn/xlm
/invite/d4fqbmxw

Q1: Stellar is a decentralized coin that unites currencies
Q2: Stellar lumens -> Falilitating low cost universal payments
Q3: Why use for Reminances -> Fast, Secure, and Global
Q4: Why would banks and businesses use stellar -> To issue and exchange tokens quickly
Q5: Stellar Consensus -> It relies on the agreement of trusted nodes

P.S. Hidden gem: Tim Ferriss podcast #244 Nick Szabo
Time: 1:34:23
Slight slip, listen to the bit......gold and draw own conclusions.
Satoshi was a combo of Nick Szabo and Hal Finney
Ignore the FUD, stack sats, retire early.

>>15035071

pic related, shows 0xBitcoin relationship to BTC ETH wBTC. keep in mind also that 0xBitcoin already launched its 100% final implementation in Feb 2018.

>>15035103
> stablecoins

it’s completely possible. we’ll have to wait and see which stablecoins people will trust. the fully decentralized ones are the only ones I’d personally consider. but 0xbtc is pow mined and doesn’t face any potential sharp breaks from trying and failing to maintain a peg. it could hit decent stability on par with stocks in time. impossible to know, so I’m not putting all my eggs in one basket. i wouldn’t expect people to keep their life savings in their purse.

Kakaaarrr

>>15035103
>People will use one of ETH's many, many stablecoins for daily transactions

also worth wondering if 0xBTC will go into the reserve basket of any stablecoins.

ETH 2.0 > BTC > ETH 1.0

>>15033448
The real answer lies in the burned fee component. When 2.0 is fully operational ETH will be the first coin with economics that actually work out.

>yfw there's nothing backing btc but the "only way to pay the fee to use the blockchain" argument
>yfw miners can be paid using side channels to include your bitcoin transaction with 0 sat fee
>yfw this transaction can send things other than btc such as a hash to anchor a sidechain
>yfw bitcoin isn't necessary to run the btc chain

>>15035123
Is it backed by actual BTC? If not, it will not have the pull of BTC and is therefore useless. Stablecoins are better.

>>15035439
>Is it backed by actual BTC? If not, it will not have the pull of BTC and is therefore useless. Stablecoins are better.

no, so far i don't believe there's any working way to have actual BTC on ethereum. there are centralized IOU services like wBTC, but these are super centralized and even have kyc rules.

the fundamental reason is that you can't store BTC private keys on the ethereum blockchain without revealing them (obviously).

for background, 0xBitcoin is a port of Bitcoin value principles to Ethereum.

similarities to Bitcoin (probably not a complete list):

1. 0xBTC must be acquired through PoW mining (can be resold after that of course)
2. hard cap of 21,000,000 tokens
3. same emission parameters as Bitcoin
4. totally decentralized, ownerless project
5. totally finished implementation as of Feb 2018

these additions:

1. it can work natively with any Ethereum smart contract
2. you pay transfer fees in ETH, not 0xBTC itself (but you can pay the transfer fees in 0xBTC if you want via another contract called Lava)

these differences:

1. the network security is handled by Ethereum (defense against double-spend attacks)
2. transfers happen as normal ERC20 transfers, not blocks of transactions like Bitcoin
3. transaction rate can be very high with Ethereum 1.0 and will be insanely high with Ethereum 2.0, just like with other ERC20 tokens

>>15032590

Sadly ETH doesn't even have a monetary policy in place and a bunch of kids who have no economics background try to make up shit over time thus creating massive inflation over a supply that is mostly premined and distributed to mostly insiders. The only thing going for ETH was the scam ICOs but that 2017/18 market is gone. Now they try to push DeFi but ETH will continue to tank with a make it up as you go monetary policy and the DeFi projects like MKR are shit asking for a 20% interest rate on falling ETH that you lock up and get liquidated on. There is less DAI today than in the 2018 bear market because nobody fucking will be 20% interest rate.

>>15032597
idiot
>>15032617
idiot
>>15032692
idiot
>>15032752
idiot

>>15032692

>that just means its an amazing buying opportunity right now NANO is definitely going to explode

Buying opportunity for Nano was 2016 when people were buying ONE MILLION RaiBlocks for 2 BTC about $750. Those who bought then keep dumping whenever the price moves up. There are still over 150 Wallets with 100,000 or more Nano. Fucking retarded investment right now.

>>15035569
>the fundamental reason is that you can't store BTC private keys on the ethereum blockchain without revealing them (obviously).
No. The fundamental reason is the inability of bitcoin (or another chain with a two way peg) to act as an ETH SPV client. If that were to change then two way pegs between BTC and ETH are possible.

What you described is just a long winded "it's an erc20 with pow, bitcoin in the name, and 21M supply". If 0xbitcoin can leech off of the BTC brand successfully, then the entire selling point of being bitcoin is already gone as it's not scarce when there's other projects also considered "Bitcoin".

>>15034838
This is the average BTC holder. Even niggers know about bitcoin at this point, in places like fucking zimbabwe. Tell your average middle class white person about ETH, they will be like "What the fuck is that? What does smart contract even mean?"

People just aren't ready for what ETH can do. Also, I think its likely nations move to ban cryptoscurrencies that provide no value other than getting around the government. This would include things like LTC, BTC, NANO. They can't actually ban, but they will forbid exchanges based in those countries from doing anything. ETH/LINK/MKR is all you need for the DEFI future. People will still use crypto to invest in and store value.

People would rather have something that can actually do something other than people believing it has value. That is why so many BTC tards prefer gold over fiat in the first place lmao.

BTC brainlets are so dumb, the JUSTing will be glorious.

>>15035654
like this man said

>>15035071
>his. ethereum is great. it has a good chance at being the de facto global, secure, decentralized computer for programmable money. but ETH is not a good store of value and you shouldn't think of it as money. vitalik said that about a million times. it's gas. it's a commodity. the value will fluctuate with the amount of processing happening on ethereum.

People are still going to use it to store value though. See real estate, taxi medallions, land, copper etc. Yes, those things aren't ideal to store value in, but people did it and it pumped the prices way over what it is actually worth on numerous occasions.

Look at ETHs price now and it isn't even used and no one knows what it is outside of crypto. The fact that everyone I meet who is dumb and has dabbled in crypto only bought bitcoin is a signal to sell for me. This means there isn't much room for it to grow.

>>15035716

> ETH/LINK/MKR is all you need for the DEFI future. People will still use crypto to invest in and store value.

20% interest rate to collateralize ETH and get DAI stablecoin loan. 20% INTEREST!! Even the biggest moron knows that's a scam. But Ethereum fags think that's a great opportunity.

Now add to that, you have to keep shoveling ETH into your debt position as the price of ETH keeps tanking or you get liquidated. Even the biggest moron will now think this is a SCAM on top of the 20% interest. But Ethereum fags think that's a great opportunity.

ETH is a store of value?? Vitalik also claimed it would take a century for ETH supply to hit 100 Million. Ethereum fags believed it:

> approx ETH supply 95,912,556 time 2018-11-03

> approx ETH supply 98,562,556 time 2025-10-02

> approx ETH supply 101,212,556 time 2128-03-20

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/5izcf5/lets_talk_about_the_projected_coin_supply_over/dbc66rd/

There has been a 30% increase in supply in 3 fucking years. ETH is a store of value.......KEK ETH was $390 in June 2017 when BTC was $2400

>>15035790

Fucking hell, I fell for the tech meme and DeFi bullshit

>>15035709
>No. The fundamental reason is the inability of bitcoin (or another chain with a two way peg) to act as an ETH SPV client. If that were to change then two way pegs between BTC and ETH are possible.

this is obviously true. odds don't seem good, but it's not impossible.

>What you described is just a long winded "it's an erc20 with pow, bitcoin in the name, and 21M supply". If 0xbitcoin can leech off of the BTC brand successfully, then the entire selling point of being bitcoin is already gone as it's not scarce when there's other projects also considered "Bitcoin".

you say it's leeching off the name, but what else would you call a faithful port of the value mechanics and emission properties of Bitcoin to Ethereum? it was the first to do that and has first-mover advantage.

0xBTC has maintained probably ~99.9% of all the hashpower of PoW mineables running on ethereum, amounting to 5-10 TH/s currently, so obviously miners believe it is worth mining.

people have tried to duplicate 0xBitcoin many times in the past 1.5 years, but none of the clones have taken off, just like people tried to clone or fork Bitcoin onto separate chains and almost all of the clones failed, though a few have decent purpose and gained some value. so far all the clones of 0xBitcoin lack a compelling differentiation.

but obviously a growing number of people see a compelling reason for 0xBitcoin to exist in addition to Bitcoin, for the reasons i mentioned.

saying "if someone can copy Bitcoin and the copy comes to have value, then Bitcoin is worthless" is not at all accurate. that's like saying that the USD and GBP can't exist simultaneously, or that gold and silver can't both be money at the same time.

yes, any port or copy of Bitcoin competes somewhat with Bitcoin, but we are still in a growing market, so competition doesn't necessarily decrease the existing market cap of Bitcoin anyway.

0xBitcoin definitely isn't trying to replace Bitcoin and certainly can't obviate it.

>>15035970
>99.9% of all the hashpower of PoW mineables running on ethereum
Because it's not a very good idea. All the clones were two day pumps and nobody ever believed in them, they just rode it to offload on the greater fool.

>but obviously a growing number of people see a compelling reason for 0xBitcoin to exist in addition to Bitcoin, for the reasons i mentioned.
Down 95% from ATH, nice growing number of people you've got there. Shills like you rely on dumping walls of text which is an obvious indication that it's just buzzwords. There's nothing in PoW that makes a coin inherently valuable.

>>15035295
This. IF they can bring in ETH 2.0 in the next year there will no looking. If it's later, there may be serious competition

>>15036063
>walls of text
i know this is biz, but normally we call that "sound arguments thoroughly explained"
>inherently valuable
nothing makes anything inherently valuable

>>15032726
sv wont even overtake bch

>>15036063
>Down 95% from ATH, nice growing number of people you've got there. Shills like you rely on dumping walls of text which is an obvious indication that it's just buzzwords.

sorry, it's hard not to be wordy and takes more time to edit it down than to just stream.

>There's nothing in PoW that makes a coin inherently valuable.

there is no inherent value, period.

there are games and rules. people like games with uncheatable rules, and they build value within those systems. the game of PoW mining can't be cheated: the rule is that you can "destroy" electricity in a provable way and then receive a certain reward. most people don't know the rule of the PoW game or that the value they perceive depends on it, but they can still play and benefit.

compare to gold. it has no "inherent value". it has some material utility but is valued at a huge premium above that. the rule of the gold game is that you can only "make" more of it at great expense by extracting it from ore, and that expense is not recoverable, i.e. you can't get your labor back and spend that again. those are the rules of the gold game and they are obviously ancient and enduring despite being merely a beneficial shared delusion. most people don't know the rules of that game either yet they play.

Bitcoin ported an ancient value game to an entirely new arena. 0xBitcoin is just a further port to a smaller arena.

>>15032767
you're a faggot for tripfagging and shilling your twatter, but based trade

>>15032617
>Thats nano
*DOGE

>>15036365
Can you just stop with the walls of shilling? Nobody is falling for 0xBTC in 2019...

>>15036365
So you will stop using faggotry like "DA FIST PURE MINED TOKEN" like it's some magical property that gives 0xBitcoin value then?

>those are the rules of the gold game and they are obviously ancient and enduring despite being merely a beneficial shared delusion. most people don't know the rules of that game either yet they play.
Glad we agree there's no inherent value in anything. There's no reason to have pow when security does not depend on it. Gold is valuable despite it being possible to mine - it's hard enough that it does not balloon supply. It's not valuable because it's possible to mine or some delusion about mining making the gold market "fair".

>>15036442
that's called explaining a point of view, not shilling. if you have information or an argument, please state it. "nobody's falling for ___ in the current year" is not an argument.

>>15036445
>So you will stop using faggotry like "DA FIST PURE MINED TOKEN" like it's some magical property that gives 0xBitcoin value then?

Bitcoin is not a token. 0xBitcoin was the first pow mined token. the first mover advantage allowed it to capture virtually 100% of the value of the pow mineable token space, however limited that space is. so it's notable and accurate to describe it that way.

> There's no reason to have pow when security does not depend on it.

you are not getting it at all. security is a small part of the function of PoW for bitcoin. bitcoin just piggybacked network security onto the PoW, which was a brilliant hack. but the majority of its value comes from what i described.

>>15036442
>>>15036365 (You)
>Can you just stop with the walls of shilling? Nobody is falling for 0xBTC in 2019...

no, i want to counter fud and i want to see other people's objections to my arguments.

sorry not sorry for the wordiness. it's like 10x as hard to be succinct.

>>15036507
>Gold is valuable despite it being possible to mine - it's hard enough that it does not balloon supply. It's not valuable because it's possible to mine or some delusion about mining making the gold market "fair".
Refute this. PoW without the security aspect is just unnecessary inflation.

>>15036528
pow means you can't print 0xbtc at will. it is hard to get, like mining for gold.
but at the same time, 0xbtc can be mined by anyone anytime. they essentially buy it from their wall socket.

>>15036573
That refutes nothing, it's completely unnecessary to be able to spend electricity to make more.

>>15036729
something about how you phrase things makes your points hard to understand. if you don't spend electricity to get them on demand, how would you implement "difficult but possible to get"?

>>15036748
Buying on the market with a fixed supply. How do you not get that?

>>15036761
buying with what? other schrutebucks?

>>15035790
ETH tenthening is soon.

I realize BTC has a hard cap, and that is good for the price. But I think the use case is so dumb that I can't justify buying it. ETH is criminally undervalued considering what it can possibly do.

I have no interest in BTC anymore.

>>15036761
perhaps a better question for me to ask is, what are people buying, if the tokens you're talking about weren't mined? how were they made, then?

>>15036781
>>15036815
Schrute bux, dollarydoos, bitcoins, eth, whatever. If fairness is the concern then they could simply have released the full supply right away (or over a period according to some algorithm to maximize distribution), burning ether to get 0xB. Fair, nobody profits, no devs taking the "ico" money, or other criticism of that kind.

>>15032726
>My vision wasn't create cryptocurrency but an extremely inconvenient encrypted cloud drive. - Satoshi Nakamoto

>>15036831
so it seems like your answer to "how were they made?" is "they were printed all at once from nothing", and then we buy it by trading supply-uncapped eth for it?

>>15036919
Printed from burning something yes, not necessarily eth. Bitcoin would be a good candidate, no? Burning BTC to make 0xBTC seems like a much stronger mechanism than mining. The wasted energy/value for one 0xBTC would be identical to one bitcoin, can't get any better than that if you want to emulate BTC.

>>15036960
ok, but how do you implement that? i'm not attacking, i just don't know how that could be done trustlessly like 0xbtc-for-energy is implemented in ethereum.

>>15037030
Relay block headers, submit burn proofs. Or simply award Bitcoin miners an equal amount of 0xBTC for submitting their header. Or just say fuck it, hardcode a recent BTC header, capping the supply at whatever btc has now and making it an airdrop to Bitcoin holders. Or a combination of these, many schemes are possible. Eth-only: Mint full supply within a short period by ETH burn, making the supply cap argument void as it is only used to ensure some value was destroyed to create the token. Also not open to the early dev mining fud and more consistent in how much was destroyed.

The mining simply isn't needed, what is the point? Instead of making me FUD mining as distribution, start with the objective. What is the problem and why is mining the solution?

>>15032571

>>15035634
FUCK YOU POO POO COIN GOOD, DECENTRALIZE EVERYTHING GLOBAL SUPER COMPUTERD

>>15037321
WE WILL USE BCH TO SCALE IF WE HAVE TO

>>15037299
well, i'm not convinced by stuff like "relay burn proofs". you could be correct, but it seems awfully hand-wavy to me.
you could say that in 0xbitcoin land we see the problems as centralization and needing to trust entities, and the solution we advocate is letting people buy 0xbtc from the dex of their wall socket the same way they can with bitcoin using the currency of electricity

>>15036795
WE WILL DECENTRALIZE OUR ONIONS SUPPLY BROTHER, LAUNCH AN ICO TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS GROWN AND DISTRIBUTED ETHICALLY BY ONLY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT LABORERS. PROOF OF ETHICAL ONIONS WILL FINALLY BE SOLVED.

>>15037299
oops, sorry for misquoting your proposed solution, that was not intentional.

>>15037404
>the solution we advocate is letting people buy 0xbtc from the dex of their wall socket the same way they can with bitcoin using the currency of electricity
Why is this desirable above a simple one time burn and relying on the market after that?

>>15032571
This is why I am a ERC20 maximalist.

Ethereum is and will be the chosen world computer. However people have been warned over and over again from Vlad Zamfir and others that ETH is NOT a Store of Value or Cash. It is OIL that keeps the System going. When there is a funding Problem the ETH Foundation will always mint new Coins.

ERC20 Coins are the true Store of Value. The Supply of most Tokens will mostlikely never increase as they are hardcoded in the smart contract.

In the next 1-2 years we will see the biggest Crypto whealth transfer from ETH to ERC20 Tokens.

Samsung and Google are about to release ETH Wallets.

>>15037463
well, we are actually huge fans of bitcoin, so we want something that works like bitcoin, but on ethereum.
one time burn of some eth to demonstrate that the whole thing was not generated from air is light years away from bitcoin.
how convinced would anyone be about the value of 0xbitcoin because two years ago we spent whatever number of uncapped bingo bongo bux to make it?
i guess we consider the system to have proven itself and so we don't see the energy as wasted, we see it as proof of belief in value.

>>15037299
>Relay block headers, submit burn proofs. Or simply award Bitcoin miners an equal amount of 0xBTC for submitting their header. Or just say fuck it, hardcode a recent BTC header, capping the supply at whatever btc has now and making it an airdrop to Bitcoin holders.

"submit burn proofs" and so on. it seems like you are saying, "just magically make Bitcoin and Ethereum interoperable". that is not a solved problem. in your hypothetical way to distribute 0xBTC to Bitcoin holders, how would you airdrop it to them? get them to sign their Ethereum address with their Bitcoin key? how would a trustless Ethereum contract verify those signatures, import all Bitcoin addresses into the contract's storage at creation? seems ... not impossible but highly theoretical. having a central party do the emission is antithetical to the PoW mindset and would make 0xBitcoin a no-go for its core audience.

even if you did the initial distribution the way you're describing, how would additional distribution work? again, the requirement is complete decentralization. i'm not getting your plan at all.

the entire point of pow mining for distribution is that it's the only uncheatable and totally decentralized way. there is no way for a person to acquire any value in the system except to provably "burn" value in the real world and therefore bring it into the digital one, in a manner of speaking.

infernal_toast decided to keep things as simple and uncheatable as possible and just port the value mechanics of Bitcoin to ethereum. then the community immediately announced the new project as far and wide as possible within the few first days and weeks (and continuing still), allowing anyone to get into mining or buying 0xbitcoin if they wanted to, when/if they felt the risk/benefit was worth it.

>>15032571
LINK will flip BTC in 5 years or so. Screencap this.

>>15037600
Just get yourself some BSOV , the first deflationproof btc on Ethereum. Thank me later

>>15032590
Fuck off retard

>>15037600
>how convinced would anyone be about the value of 0xbitcoin because two years ago we spent whatever number of uncapped bingo bongo bux to make it?
Nobody that isn't a brainlet is convinced by the fact that some neet spent electricity to make it. This entire line of thought is flawed. Electricity is uncapped and value fluctuates btw, having a daily burn auction achieves the same thing.

>>15037629
>0xBTC to Bitcoin holders, how would you airdrop it to them?
Merkle proof, recent block header for proof of balance, validate signature to claim. BTC to ETH has already been done.

>value mechanics of Bitcoin to ethereum
Literally just merge mine then.

The mining was ONLY to enrich the dev and friends.

>>15037715
>>0xBTC to Bitcoin holders, how would you airdrop it to them?
>Merkle proof, recent block header for proof of balance, validate signature to claim. BTC to ETH has already been done.

i don't think you understood me. i'm not confused about how to verify bitcoin balances. i'm asking how you do it in a completely trustless and decentralized way. with available technology, how does an ethereum smart contract talk to bitcoin to verify whatever proof is provided?

you say BTC to ETH has already been done. what are you referring to, wBTC?

and in any event, i don't see that distributing 0xBitcoin to existing Bitcoin holders is desirable. the idea of 0xBitcoin is "now anyone can establish their own store of value via PoW, just like it worked with Bitcoin, but it can happen on Ethereum now. if you want to do that, start mining."

"the mining was only to enrich devs" is untrue. the project was publicized immediately and broadly in the first few days. there was no premine, no time for a premine. pic related.

>>15032571

We know.

Stay mad shitcoiners. You’ll figure it out eventually.

>>15037932
Value is not established by PoW. Fact. Stay deluded.

>>15037715
>The mining was ONLY to enrich the dev and friends.
i've been hanging out on the discord since soon after the project began, so i've seen the contract deployer infernal toast talk a million times.
i can genuinely say he is a person with very uncommon vision who truly does not seem to have any desire to get rich, even though he has ample opportunity and could easily carve out angles for himself all over the place. he never does anything like that. he's wise far beyond his years.
i don't think you can simultaneously know anything about the guy and make that kind of accusation. or you need to provide evidence, which i really don't think you're going to be able to do. right?

>>15037932
>pic related

btw, i know that this "proof" leaves something to be desired since it's hard to verify the claims yourself. etherscan won't even show past 100k transactions on the 0xBitcoin contract, and you would need to see about 200k transactions back.

but for your reference, here's the contract creation transaction from that screencap:

https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5cdcd05f9d6e53e4be3c48095d95caa9d71f0c28f2bd5fe0ab4deeb20b75c026

i know it would be hard for you to personally verify the discord members chart also. sorry. it would be great if someone could assemble some discord scripts that anyone could run. it is a pain to get data out of discord.

>>15038053
begging the question. if you think the other poster's ideas about value are wrong, explain the correct way to think about it.

>>15038053
>Value is not established by PoW. Fact. Stay deluded.

you're not helping me understand you and you're not addressing my arguments. you're just restating something you already posited, so what am i supposed to do with that except repeat my points yet again? are you incapable of going further with your argument?

>>15038130
Supply, demand. Come on.

>>15038181
That's cool, I'll leave it there. Consider other ways of wasting money and see if you find any examples where the mere act of spending increases the value of something else.

>>15035569
The very fact that a SM transaction requires both 0xbtc AND another currency is redundant and makes this a shitcoin

>>15038262
obviously we don't disagree about supply and demand. we actually seem to disagree about the value of being able to buy something via electricity.

>>15038262
And where does the supply come from? From the pockets of some random dude that started out with everything?
>>15038262
Wasting money doesn't inherently give other things value, but it proves that other people believe it has value. Creating a fresh batch of 100 million tokens for the cost of the gas fee proves nothing.

>>15038371

>he doesn't know
remain impoverished

>>15033254
Yikes cope

>>15038371
>The very fact that a SM transaction requires both 0xbtc AND another currency is redundant and makes this a shitcoin

come on, by common definition anything that isn't bitcoin is a shitcoin. so it's not a super pejorative term anymore.

i don't see it as a big deal that most ERC20s require ETH for sending. maybe you aren't aware, though i don't know how that's possible. i and a lot of others consider it a feature, but it's a matter of opinion.

but anyway, the sender of 0xBTC doesn't have to pay fees in ETH. https://lavatoken.com/

>>15038262
>That's cool, I'll leave it there. Consider other ways of wasting money and see if you find any examples where the mere act of spending increases the value of something else.

please, that is the common case: spending to increase the value of something else. i have a truck full of oranges in my orchard, i spend money to burn gas to get them where they have more value and take the profit.

when i consume/destroy/spend electricity in mining, by the rules of the game i move the approximate value of that burned resource to a place where it has higher value to me, which is into a blockchain. because now i can cross a border with a million dollars' value in my brain, and i think that is more valuable than having the million dollars.

again, the PoW mining game is just a universal agreement among the players as to what constitutes value. it's just a different formulation of the same type of money abstraction humans have been doing forever. i don't think you would be confused by the idea that a gold bar could be worth 500 carts of wheat, but somebody from the ancient past might really have a hard time wrapping their head around it.

>>15038716
>orange orchard

sorry grove

>>15032571
Dyor research on chainlink tokenomics OP youll reconsider what you said about btc

>>15033410
10x that day cap this

>>15032571
>Nothing will ever flip IBM

XMR and Btc only baby

>>15038510
>>15038716
>>15038765
OP here, why are you so persistent on 0xBTC. It's an obvious scam that only uses the name of Bitcoin. It has no value.
>>15038795
Chainlink has some interesting properties and use cases, but it lacks democracy. Smart-contracts are businesses tools. Bitcoin is much much more important.

>>15039328
>It's an obvious scam
go ahead and explain the scam. it's obvious, right? then just explain how the scam works.

>>15039174
Correct
>IBM is one of 30 companies included in the Dow Jones Industrial Average and one of the world's largest employers

>>15039328
>OP here, why are you so persistent on 0xBTC. It's an obvious scam that only uses the name of Bitcoin. It has no value.

man i feel like you are either trolling or you can't read the discussion here.

>>15039365
charts that look like this are usually a good indicator. Clear downtrend all the way to 0.
>>15039435
You're one mentally ill motherfucker if you think 0xBTC has any value at all. Look up the chart, everyone agrees it's a shitcoin.

>>15039495
>charts
charts are not reality, charts are pictures of reality that ignore almost everything. if you don't understand that then i fear for the safety of your butthole
>if you think 0xBTC has any value at all
we're not going to repaste the whole conversation but try using your eyes and browser to scroll up and read it

>>15039328

Bitcoin will always have some value. It is another form of currency. However, there are many forms of currency and there will always be a diverse selection.

but, there is only one oracle network that will be handling data b2b and then b2c. The data market itself eclipses that of money at well over quadrillion.

Chainlink will surpass bitcoin within the next decade.

>>15039495
>charts that look like this are usually a good indicator. Clear downtrend all the way to 0.

the fact that you qualified your statement with "usually" means that even you fundamentally know it is dumb to make calls like that.

0xBitcoin has been mined incredibly heavily since it started. we're at 5-10 TH/s hashrate now. miners are constantly dumping onto markets and taking their profit. obviously there are buyers on the other side of every one of those sells. and the miners have kept mining, profitably, for 18 months straight. look at the volume on the charts. even taking into account possible wash trading, it is not like there is no market.

if you think an organic community project should have mooned by 18 months of age or it's dead, then you lack context.

also, trends and TA are nonsense. if you believe in that stuff, you will be successful only through dumb luck.

ETH is a mess can't scale unlimited inflation and operated by communist pedophile jews

ETH EIP-2025 gives an addition 140k ETH to devs
this is 140k in addition to the 12 million given to them and the 60 million sold in the ICO
ETH devs have squandered 72,140,000 ETH and still haven't produced 1 functional product

and people still believe in this shitcoin?

>>15039819
fucking laughable. Why do you spend so much time defending such a shitty fucking project. I pity retards like you.
>>15039770
>Chainlink will surpass bitcoin within the next decade
Won't happen because Bitcoin serves a much much bigger purpose than a simple json parser.

>>15032571

Even if ETH flipps Bitcoin i predict a floppening within 2 weeks, similiar to what happens every time ripple flips ETH.

>>15039938

The more simple an idea the faster the adoption.

Bitcoin = protocol that transfers money
Chainlink = protocol that transfers Data

There is nothing more valuable then information, data. you know this deep down inside. But its ok, things take time to understand. Its the same reason people who are buying BTC at 9000 didn't buy it at $10.

>>15040010
Understanding Chainlink is like people in the 90s understanding search engines.

You see when search engines first came out 99% of the people, internet users, investing public, didn't really understand the significance of what search portals wanted to do. Sure, they thought it was cool that they could search the world wide web for information, for data outside of their realm of thinking. It was a big deal but no one really understood how a company like Google or yahoo could profit. 99% of the world didn't understand the significance of Big data.

The same thing is happening with Chainlink. Most people that somewhat looked into LINK are saying to themselves..."thats pretty cool, they connect blockchains to real world data....pretty cool but..meh.. I don't see what the big deal is".

Really, the 1% (or even less then that) get it. Its about the Data. Real world data will be living in the oracle network. Anyone, anything, any contract wanting or needing real world truthful data will have to get it through Chainlink. Its that simple. Think now....

Google is one of the largest companies in the world because of big data, data analytics, etc... and they have built applications, advertising models, business models using their data as a starting point. Nobody understood it at first. Those that did are in the upper 1% of wealth right now.

Chainlink is the Big Data play in this space..but with a twist. it differs slightly then data on the internet. The oracle network weeds out false data.

Think now for one second. if Virtual Data online is worth that much that google is one of the biggest companies in the world. how big do you think Chainlink can be? We are talking about Real-world data, truthful data, trusted data. This is the key difference between what will be living in the oracle network and in the virtual world, the internet.

Chainlink is a deca-trillion dollar opportunity and there is nothing like it in this space.

>>15039938
>fucking laughable. Why do you spend so much time defending such a shitty fucking project. I pity retards like you.

because there's a chance it will be useful to someone to hear my critiques of 0xbitcoin fud. and because it's useful to me to know what people have trouble with when then try to understand 0xbitcoin.

sadly 99% of the time i encounter people like you who can't argue actual points. that really sucks, but at least you act as a foil for my arguments.

>>15039938
>fucking laughable. Why do you spend so much time defending such a shitty fucking project. I pity retards like you.
you have NO argument, you have NO information, you seem to have a severely stunted ability to comprehend arguments and/or produce them. thank you for helping us demonstrate what kind of person likes 0xbitcoin and what kind of person hates it. you are at least useful for that

>>15040086
I understand better now, thanks. I sold at 4$, when should I buy back?

Still, chainlink is would bring money to the operators, but it is not a store of value. You get money by running the system and staking your link.
On the otherhand, bitcoin is digital gold. Link sounds really great if they accomplish their vision, but if the system is slow and need more speed, they will print more LINK. The devs also own 67% of the supply and it's clear that link isn't for everybody, but for businesses. BTC is for everybody.
How does a linker cope with that? Why would I stake in a pool instead of hoarding BTC?

You make a lot of sens of chainlink, and make me want to hold atleast a suicide stack, but linkers also sound the most deluded.

>>15036063
Why is Bitcoin worth as much as it is currently? Because it's the very first cryptocurrency? There are major flaws with it which will be found in a few years when mining will have to be astounding and 100x as massive as it is now to keep Bitcoin secure. What 0xBitcoin does is separate mining and consensus from security. 0xBitcoin does not require mining to prevent a 51% attack and to keep it secure.

Plus no other coin can interact with the Ethereum blockchain without being a centralized middleman like wBTC. Why do we want centralized middlemen to hold our keys. We can do business peer to peer without that with a coin like 0xBitcoin. It's just going through a high inflation period just like Bitcoin did when there was 5 million coins in existence. Eventually, Bitcoin halved and it gets more scarce over time.

What 0xBitcoin has going for it is that Ethereum continues to build and get more pronounced as the smart contract/world computer web 3.0 platform. If corporations and businesses decide to use it, then why not use 0xBitcoin which is pure mined and just like Bitcoin as far as specs go. God damn you idiots who don't see the value in something like that. Bitcoin is not the same Bitcoin it was in 2009. It's highly centralized to a few mining farms and is gambled on by investors from 2010-2012 and even has a futures market which is not good.

Bitcoin cannot scale, but when Ethereum switches to Proof of Stake and if it works without any problems, 0xBitcoin can still be mined and used as a true currency. ETH is not currency. It is for gas and is like the fuel that keeps Ethereum going.

>>15038053
Um, the value from PoW tcoins comes from the fact that it is distributed only by proving the work was done to create it at the expense of electricity to mine.

Would you feel more comfortable with a group of people right off the bat creating coin and holding 20-50% of the supply or would it be more fair and reasonable to have a coin that was organically created over time? It's like capitalism. First come first serve. Anyone can mine a PoW token it just requires the hardware to do so. If you don't want to pay thousands of dollars for mining rigs, GPUs, FPGA's , then that's on you. Nobody has a gun to your head saying yes or no. It's voluntarily up to you if you want to help create new coins. If miners stop mining Bitcoin, the difficulty will drop massively and this would be a problem since Bitcoin relies on mining to secure its blockchain. 0xBitcoin does not require mining to secure itself because it is an ERC-20 token living on Ethereum. Ethereum secures it by mining ETH. Soon, ETH will be staked and Ethereum will be much harder to attack.

>>15040656
>they will print more LINK
They can't print more LINK. The total supply is fixed

>link isn't for everybody
Correct, sort of. For right now, its meant to be used on a b2b level. So everyone will be using it but they won't know it... at first. Until other applications are built on it. Just like the internet, B2B applications were first. From there B2C applications took over. So eventually LINK will be for everyone.

Also, It is not meant to be a digital currency, your right about that. It is a protocol that transfers data like TCP/IP, the internet. Except this time people can actually invest, hodle and capture the value that runs through the "new internet".

>but if the system is slow and need more speed
Anon, Chainlink has no scalling issues. They've figured it out. its called threshold signatures. https://blog.chain.link/threshold-signatures-in-chainlink/

As a matter of fact we suspect that Ethereum will use the oracle network to help scale faster. Computation will be done in the oracle layer and the answer written to the Ethereum blockchain.

In the end, its about making money. BTC will always have value. yes, it is digital gold. But it is 10 years mature. Chainlink is just starting out. Since the middle of the bear market Chainlink has out performed BTC by 3x. Imagine in 5 to 10 years.

>>15032571
Bitcoin will never go mainstream, but RSV will.

>>15041623
https://youtu.be/4Xz0rDTGB-A?t=177
Alex Coventry convinced me Chainlink wasn't larping, absolute unit brain plays

>>15032571
OK boomer

>>15041623
>They can't print more LINK. The total supply is fixed
If that is 100% true, seems like chainlink might be a good longterm investement. I will research threshold signatures and try to make sens of that. Thank you anon for your insight on chainlink.