/biz/ - Business & Finance

Sage

>>14590014
Congrats! You learned to regurgitate your professors thoughts back as your own. You should get into the academy. I heard they needed more hacks!!

Piketty and others have more or less confirmed that Marx's views on late stage capitalism are happening as we speak, but Communism is mere utopian folly. What is instead going to happen is that the current power elite, who are drawn from Bourgeois stock, are going to be displaced by power elite from new stock, setting the clock on revolution back the way that it happened when the Bourgeois usurped the Gentry.

>>14590048
My professors were neutral or rich.

>>14590048
Most professors, especially in economics aren't marxist.

Can I order pizza on my smartphone under communism?
No?
Then no thanks

>>14590076
Being neutral or rich doesn't correlate to not being a marxist. I don't get what you are saying.

>>14590087
That is actually a fair point. But some departments are riddled with them. And if OP spent enought time in the sty, it is no wonder he is a pig.

>>14590076
The vast majority of marxists in modern america are rich

>>14590014
Nice work of fiction

>>14590076
Wtf so? I live in a rich area (gated country club) and grew up around rich people and every single one of them virtue signals about how economically leftist they are and how much they want higher taxes. The richer they are the further marxist they are. It's constant virtue signalling because leftist economics display status. Then as soon as the new taxes they voted for and supported become law, they go to the bank the next day and make a change to their accounts to get around it so they don't have to pay it.

>>14590151
>higher taxes
>marxist

That's a yikes from me

>>14590166
>Implying that Marxists don't agitate for highers taxes, as a step on the road to full communism.

Wew lad. You need to be 18 to post here.

>>14590117
Yes it does. Marxist are usually upper middle class petite bourgeois that are jealous of the upper class but disdain the uneducated plebs they are supposed to represent

>>14590188

Socialism is a mitigation of Capitalism's worst impulses, and it sets the clock on popular revolution backwards every time it happens.

>>14590188
wtf you're telling me the US was marxist through much of the 20th century because it had high tax rates?

>>14590216
I mean in some ways your right. There are socialists who do not agitate for full communism. But Marxists also agitate for socialism. Socialism is a step on the road to communism. What would you recommend to get to full communism?

Based OP

Nazbol gang

>>14590241

Socialism is advocated by some who think it's a transitional phase, but it's the opposite of what accelerationists advocate, which is pushing Capitalism to its worst excesses so that "revolution" comes sooner. They're both silly ideas because if workers were going to do what Marxists hope that they're going to do we wouldn't have evolved the social hierarchies that we did.

>>14590240
Nobody actually paid those rates. Everyone knows nobody paid those rates. When you use the "muh 90%" in the 1950's, everyone knows you are lying. Taxation as a portion of GDP was no higher in the 50's than it is today. If rich people were paying those rates, then we would expect either tax as a portion of GDP to rise, or the economy to falter. Neither happened in the 50's. You are being disingenuous and you are arguing like a jew. Congrats.

>I have a useless degree
It's actually ironic that it's an economics degree, considering that you made a poor economic decision in getting a degree that the market does not value.
Yes, I'm sure you think it would be valuable in your marxist fantasy world, but the rest of us live in the real world, and we think you're pathetic because you can't get a job and you spend all day bitching about capitalism.

>>14590274

Nazbols are just racist Commies who don't get to enjoy the presumption of benevolent intentions.

>>14590280
I am sorry, Marx was pretty clear about his theory of history. A socialist dictatorship of the Proletariat was essential to the advancement of full communism. While it is true that not all socialists are marxists, ALL MARXISTS ARE SOCIALISTS, if they follow the doctrine of Marx. And since MArxism is doctrinaire (that is there are tenets that proscribe to), anyone who calls himself a marxist must be a socialist.

>>14590151
>>14590188

>>14590304
>racist commies

Based

>>14590343
Why don't you just go back to r/chapo, and leave us the alone?

>>14590341

DotP necessitates a new hierarchy which merely recreates inequality along a new economic axis. Which brings me back to my point. Communism can't happen.

>>14590014
I'm not a capitalist, I just concern myself with playing the game rather than bitching that the rules are unfair. Grow the fuck up, cunt.

>>14590290
The point is that high tax rates isn't Marxist economics. See you say here >>14590341
that anyone who is a Marxist must subscribe to Marx. Please show me where Marx advocates for high tax rates and how this is socialism/communism.

>>14590365
Because I’m a natsoc not a cringe trumpie or cringe leftie

>>14590389
Agreed, but that isn't my point. My point was that all marxists are socialists by means of doctrine. They must be. They cannot help themselves but be socialists, if they are taking Marx seriously. Now, I happen to be a libertarian-conservative, and insofar as the economy "fails" to provide, broad and vigorous civil institutions should take up the slack. I am against socialism wherever it is found. I'd like you all put up against the wall.

That being said, Marxist are socialists, and you have to accept that fact.

>>14590014

> Be Capitalist in 2019
> Hard working man, working construction gets paid 21 dollars an hour.
> Hard working man, in shit factory makes 16 dollars an hour

> Twitch thot Belle Delphine sells tap water she sat in for 24 pounds a bottle on top of hundreds of thousands she makes for selling photos of herself ahegao.

Anyone who is an unironic capitalist in 2019 is retarded. I get that you feel you're working hard on crypto speculation, but capitalism in 2019 is marketing to low t beta male and it's fucking pathetic.

>>14590407
I just have a quick question. Do marxists, whenever they have seats in government, agitate for higher taxes. Yes or no.

>>14590447

>libertarian-conservative

You're the kind of greedy fool who is going to provoke popular revolt because you both refuse to subsidize public goods and refuse to keep market competitive through government regulation. You are literally making yourself into a dinosaur.

>>14590437
>Im a natsoc
>Im a nazbol
nice larp

>>14590570
First off, who said I was against anti-trust laws. Second off, civil institutions have been providing for the needy since time immemorial. Why is it that the state has to involve itself in providing these services. The state in a bureaucratic leviathan. Are people better going off to the state for their need, or to the local charity or church.

Did you now that per capita spending on charity by US citizens was higher prior to the 1965 war on poverty than before it? Did you know that after 1965 rates of poverty, out of wedlock births, divorces, drug use, alcoholism went up? Just because I don't want the state to provide these services, doesn't mean I am against the services. I am in favor of rebuilding civil society, and that must (and this ties into my racial politics) come as a result of a throughly homogeneous white nation. Race is a much more important issue than social programs.

>>14590670

>libertarian conservative
>not against anti-trust laws
>let civil society do it and not the government

I'm curious. Are you being disingenuous or are you not cognizant of the gaps in your own thinking?

I just Vote For Trump. Whatever happens happens. MAGA

>>14590694
Did you read what I wrote? Are you blind or are you stupid? The purpose of government is three-fold:

1. Maintain the rule of law
2. Protect against foreign aggression
3. Ensure that the market is free.

Anti-trust laws are a part of 3. Where do social programs fall in this paradigm? Moreover, you didn't answer my question. Is it not preferable to have churches, charities, and local communities provide for their disenchated, rather that a distant, inefficient federal government?

>>14590297
I work for the state government as the agency's legal secretary, and make $52,000 a year and $15,000 in employer retirement contributions. I get a mandatory 5% raise every year up to my range limit, but I plan on promoting before then.

You're right that I didn't need a degree to get the job, but I really doubt that you're that much better than me.

>>14590392
Uh huh.

>>14590407
https://www.checkpointnews.org/communist-manifesto-marxs-10-pt-plan/

#2

>>14590014
>have a degree an economics
>being marxist means simply ain't giving a fuck about how the supply and demand graph works (the fucking basis)

Oh I wouldn't envy your economics degree

>>14590784
You only think this because you know nothing about economics.

>>14590498
Those same retarded hard working man are the ones voluntarily giving their money to a twitch thot.

>>14590735

I read what you wrote. It's like reading a statement insisting that the color blue will prevent the spread of malaria. I quite simply don't know how to engage with someone who thinks the way that you do in a constructive manner the way that I wouldn't know what to say to someone who thinks that 2 + 2 = Peanut Butter.

>>14590792
>Beats me. I took exactly one political economy class and it sucked ass. I'm really not interested in microecon at all.

>>14590498
The only reason people are pathetic enough to buy that shit is cause they have no real responsibilities. There are two reasons people don't have responsibilities, like having a family/place to live and working a full time job to pay for those things: 1 because government schools and tv/movies/modern culture propagandize impressionable children and teens that they shouldn't have kids because they'll miss out on fun, and 2 because it is like 10x harder (because of insanely high taxes, which not only affects your paycheck but also exponentially more the ability to get a business off the ground, thereby eliminating potential employment) to be able to maintain those responsibilities, which in a sane world would give meaning to your life. I still plan to have a big family even if itll cost a shit ton, but I also have 10,000 LINK, so..

How is communism/national socialism supposed to protect against the oh so degenerate society? Just kill people? Yeah sure that will solve everything, wont create a shit ton more problems.

>>14590620
Nice cringe

>>14590837
First off, you have contributed absolutely nothing constructive to the conversation. Instead, you have decided, to sit on the sideline and feign disbelief, when I have said nothing that is not cogent and coherent.

I have laid out the purpose of government. My policies are consistent with those purposes. Social programs are neither consistent with the purposes of government, nor are they any more effective than civil institutions engaging in those same fields. As a point of fact, civil institutions are arguably favorable as they are both more efficient than the state, and encourage the construction and maintenance of strong communities and families. You don't get to pretend you don't understand the argument, so you can win some internet points, you fucking hack. Unironically put a shotgun in your mouth, and pull the fucking trigger.

OP I have an economic question. Why do CSGO and Dota2 skins have market value?

>>14590014
markets are a means of rewarding labor.
without reward the only motivator is punishment.
that's why marxism is synonymous with gulag.

>>14590960
Because people ascribe monetary value to anything they want that can be traded. Why do people pay rent when they can just squat and delay eviction proceedings for half a year, then move on?

>>14590520
>>14590778
What marxists in seats of government are you talking about? It's mostly a left liberal/social democratic thing or generally populist. Marx advocated for a progressive tax in the manifesto for example (populist pamphlet as a minor point) because conditions were different at the time but he later rejected it.

>>14590949

I'm not feigning disbelief. I fully understand that you think that charitable organizations provide a more effective social safety net than government programs. Similarly I fully comprehend that you do not see that your conceptualization of the role of government is so absurdly reductionist as to be effectively meaningless. You really think these things. You truly believe in them. I completely understand that.

What you don't understand is that to me you sound like a young earth creationist, or someone who is "skeptical" of evolution, or a flat-earther, or an anti-vaxxer. Your entire mode of thinking is so at odds with reality that I see little purpose in getting into it with you.

>>14591050
How are $1000 skins created out of thin air and Belle Delphine's 25 quid bath water compatible with the Labor theory of value?

>>14591165
I don't believe in the labor theory of value, which is a kind of magical thinking. Value is derived from scarcity and demand.

>>14590392
That's sort of the point of politics... To set the rules

>>14591117
Once again, you refuse to put any position out there, and instead attack vitriolically. Which is more, you continue to ad hom by comparing me to young earth creations, flat-earthers, or anti-vaxxers. The fact of the matter is, that while those positions do not have empirical supports. Mine do.

Government is inefficient. Charities and churches are more efficient in providing for the poor. Church and charity involvement is correlated highly with a vigorous, robust, and secure civil society. Civil institutions have tended to fade away as the role of the state has increased. The fact of the matter is that my mode of thinking is reality-centered. It focused around what the actual results of state interventions are. What the actual effect to civil society and families government programs create. Everywhere you look, state intervention is a failure. Everything I have said is historical fact.

You on the other hand, decide, like a magician, to throw around the word reductionist, say I am disconnected with reality, and yet provide no real counter argument or examples refuting what I am saying. You are a charlatan, and the lurkers on this thread see you for what you are.

>>14591195
How will you as a marxist central planner decide who will demand what, how much and how much will be produced?

>>14591117
>9 posts of sneering at every possible political/economic position without putting forward a single coherent belief of your own
Kind of impressive, but out of curiosity what is it you actually do believe, if anything?

>>14591266
The same sophisticated algorithms which private industry uses to decide their own production targets.

>>14591195
Then you aren't a Marxist at all. You are a larper.

>>14591302
But when the private businesses make a mistake, they lose money and get weaker, unless they learn. What happens when you as a central planner make a mistake? And how will your algorithms predict my demand for a $1000 CSGO knife and Belle Delphine's bathwater?

>>14591302
And you’ll do this without any genuine price signals as inputs, or is that another part of Marxism you don’t believe in either..?

>>14591351
>But when the private businesses make a mistake, they lose money and get weaker, unless they learn. What happens when you as a central planner make a mistake?
We adjust the algorithms accordingly. As it stands, we effectively centrally plan food production through subsidies, etc. But this way, no one has to go hungry.

>And how will your algorithms predict my demand for a $1000 CSGO knife and Belle Delphine's bathwater?
Not everything has to be centrally planned. I don't doubt that artisans will continue selling their stuff for whatever the market will bear.

>>14591382
>Effective
>Subsidies.

The American Farm subsidy is a matter of national disgrace.

>>14590111
but you can. try china

>>14591261

No assertion about government, charities, or churches that you made is true. For you to hold that as a central truth means that you have already internalized such a counterfactual narrative and body of supporting "evidence" that you sound like a Scientologist to me. I'm not ceding the argument to you. I'm just telling you that the grounds for a disagreement is such a vast gulf that it is outside of the scope of our ability to have this conversation in this forum.

>>14591285

I think that power hierarchies emerge from political, economic, social, and technological climates. As climates change those power hierarchies are put under new pressures until they crack under pressure that they cannot adapt to. I personally believe that the nature of the power elite is cyclical. The beginning of a cycle is when the bulk of the power elite originate from upward movement according to asymmetrical competition while the end of the cycle is when the bulk of the power elite are hanging on to their position through the almost sole exercise of power politics against emergent competitors engaging in a newly dominant mode of competition in an asymmetrical struggle.

>>14591424
>"Yeah, let's just be dependent on the rest of the world for staple foods so we can save a few million bucks on subsi- oops"

>>14590498

>convince stupid people to pay money for water by baiting their sexual desires with internet thots
>hurr durr, we need da gubmint to stop this

Just stop being fucking retarded with your money.

>>14591474
Just because you are not read in the matters of public and private socials programs, doesn't make anything I said any less true. If you truly so illiterate on such matter, maybe I am wasting my time discussing it with you.

>>14591474
>hyper-abstract platitudes containing nothing of use to anyone, and nothing resembling an actual position on politics or economics
Yikes. Genuinely sorry I even asked

>>14591474
i dont think power structures fall as easily as you propose.
look at the west. the new upstarts that were thrust upwards by social changes have always been co-opted in to the contemporary ruling elite.

>>14591382
>We adjust the algorithms accordingly.
That sounds like a lot of work, why bother if you are a salaried clerk? Maybe it would be better to collect bribes and skew the algorithms in favor of my buddies.

>Not everything has to be centrally planned.
What if those artisans start getting rich and putting their money into Bitcoin where you cannot confiscate it? How will you deal with this Bitcoin black market by the way?

>>14591521

I'm not illiterate. The mere fact that you would assert that churches have a better ROI when it comes to services rendered than government programs tells me that you have swallowed outright lies.

>>14590151
>Then as soon as the new taxes they voted for and supported become law, they go to the bank the next day and make a change to their accounts to get around it so they don't have to pay it.
Wrong. I pay my taxes. I just want the other rich people to pay taxes with me.
Being good at capitalism doesn't mean you can't be a real marxist.

>>14591534

Depends on the competition. Sometimes the elite come to adapt, generally they just integrate the upwardly mobile from the newly competing class, and sometimes they fall to violent revolution.

>>14591527
Bro, no offense, but If that's all you got from his post, I think you're out of your depth...

>>14590014
Labour theory of value is a retarded idea that belongs in the 19th century. It can't even account for 21st century concepts like the near-0 marginal cost of software.

All Marxists are retarded.

>t. Comp sci degree and econ degree from top school

>>14591568
communist revolution is the only true revolution.
all others were the 2nd echelon (aristocrats) overthrowing the top echelon (king).

>>14591540
>That sounds like a lot of work, why bother if you are a salaried clerk? Maybe it would be better to collect bribes and skew the algorithms in favor of my buddies.
We have this now. The difference is it's much easier to catch you when you work for a body which is publicly accountable and where all of your communications are accessible to the public.

>What if those artisans start getting rich and putting their money into Bitcoin where you cannot confiscate it? How will you deal with this Bitcoin black market by the way?
We deal with this now. I'll leave it up to your imagination, but consider that it's a lot more difficult for a person to put their body somewhere where the government can't confiscate it.

>>14591608
Marxist thought didn't stop in 1883.

>top school
Classic refrain of someone who went to a state school.

>>14591549
You can feign shock, and deny reality all you. But the reality of the situation is not a function of your outrage or shock. Which is more, at the very least, I have a positive position that is not a series of buzz words strung together that not even a academic would spend the time trying to grasp. You are not smarter than anyone here because you can think of hyper-abstractions. The fact is you are stuck in your mind, and have no relation vis-a-vis the real world.

Thinking about it, you might make a good academic.

>>14591602
This anon talks a big game but has very little to actually say. The word for this is “sophomoric”

>>14591619

Nope. Even Marx acknowledged that wasn't the case.

>>14591351
>What happens when you as a central planner make a mistake?

They pass the blame onto the people who did the work for the central planner then put them through show trials before executing them or let a brainwashed public do the lynching.

>>14590087
>most professors aren't marxist
lmao fucking Duning-Kruger moron, fuck off from this board and never come back. take your naive bullshit to reddit you dumb faggot.

>>14591216
>That's sort of the point of impotent rage...
>To seethe over things you hold no power to change

>>14591631
>Marxist thought didn't stop in 1883
Yeah it only got more and more retarded and disconnected from empirical evidence.

I like how you didn't address the idea that Labour theory of value is completely retarded and wrong and can't explain subjective utility and preference curves.

Nevermind that Engels considered natural resources to be "gifts of nature" which lead to ecological disaster in the Soviet Union.

The problems are cronyism and nepotism. And regulations. It’s not a truwlunfree marker with bribes and politicians.
Even with all of the above, capitalism is superior.
In Marxism everyone is equally poor.

>>14591766
I don't believe in the labor theory of value.

>>14590014
Literally zoom out.


The founders chained the government with a constitution and everybody got rich. You are a brainlet if you can't see bug patterns.

>>14591636
oh yea? examples?

>>14591814
You aren't a Marxist then

>>14590030
Fpbp

>>14591632

I'm not feigning shock, I'm previously aware of the existence of belief structures such as yours. I am not asserting that reality operates on the basis of my disdain for your preferred narrative. I just realize that, for instance, trying to get to the bottom of why you think that tithing to your church is going to do more to establish a functional social safety net than paying taxes is a non-starter as far as arguments go.

>>14591474
fucking lmao someone save this, absolutely golden pasta

>>14590014 (OP) #
Literally zoom out.


The founders chained the government with a constitution and everybody got rich. You are a brainlet if you can't see big patterns.

>>14591829

Marx openly acknowledged the revolutionary nature of the Bourgeois displacing the Gentry. He is completely clear on that point.

>>14591892
so? marx was wrong about that

>>14590792

>>14591903

k

Marxism is stupid because under a centrally planned system without market prices or profits there is no economic incentive mechanism by which to direct economic activity. The price system transmits valuable information to buyers and sellers and without that market-based price system, distorted artificial prices arise which do not reflect the real scarcity of a good or service. Without accurate price information, producers do not have proper incentives to direct economic activity and produce efficiently.

This is why socialism always fails and results in things like breadlines and inadequate supply of toilet paper.

All communisms should be thrown out of helicopters.

>>14590762
>t. larper

>>14591351
>>14590873
>>14591485

Value should be based on whether it is objectively beneficial or harmful on the communal level. The bathwater is a good example of a product that according to Capitalism is highly valued but in actuality doesn't benefit the community in any meaningful way.

I'm not arguing for concrete tenements and brutalism, but the fact that a girl is born good looking and therefore can make hundreds of thousands of dollars but a man who is spiritually healthy and a hard worker maybe pulls in 2k a month.

It's similar to the Chad sexual dynamic, except the Capitalists are the tindr thots. Someone born with better looks deserves a higher standard of living than those born with inferior genes but are better natured. It just seems gay and anti-social. It's basically brutal feudalism except in the past, I could maybe kill a nobleman and take his stuff, now I have no choice but to thank Jews, Twitch Thots, and the rich that I can buy a big mac made of onions and jerk off to porn. Because the real meat and women belong to men who were born prettier than me.

I should thank the rich they let me live.

>>14591870
Jesus dude, I wouldn’t have even gotten on your case about your abstract waffling if you weren’t such a turbocunt about it. With the anon you’re talking to you have someone who’s clearly actually making an attempt to engage with what you’re saying, rare enough on 4chan, and your response isn’t “why do you think churches are better? I think that’s wrong” but “your belief structures are such that although I totally understand them, they’re so disengaged from reality that they can’t even be argued with”. Holy fucking shit man, you are coming off absolutely terribly in this exchange

>>14591966
i dont know what society you think you can live in where you can beat those superior to you by "killing somebody and taking his stuff"

>>14591997

It's not just that it's wrong. Any reasonably objective examination of reasonably objective evidence would conclude that it's wrong. Ergo any debate that we have is divorced from reality like debating an anti-vaxxer or a climate change "skeptic".

>>14592053
Any reasonably objective examination of your argumentation style would conclude that you’re your own worst enemy. It’s absolutely not the case that people who have that view can’t be argued with or convinced, it’s only that it seems to be utterly beyond your rhetorical ability. You have a kind of learned helplessness that I’ve never really seen in an anon before

Congrats OP, you got brainwashed by a leftist jewniversity and have zero self awareness of it

>>14592017

Force is, and has always been, the great equalizer. We live in a society today where force frowned upon,and if we make reform impossible as well, we have no choice but to remain slaves.

We should aim to reform society in such a way that value should primarily be determined by what is good for society as a whole. A tiny bottle of some bitch's bathwater shouldn't be worth more than an hour's work of a laborer.

>>14592053
Except that you are denying reality. There exist perverse incentives within the governmental system of social programs that are not there in the church. Namely, that governments will hand out money regardless of whether or not i helps, whereas a church tends to be more focused. Dollar for dollar, a church has more positive impact (that is to say, it alleviates the effects of poverty more efficiently than the state)You also seem to focus on the church aspect, and not on other civil charitable institutions. Which is more, you decided to completely drop the argument that state intervention in the economy is correlated with a destruction of civil society. You may say that correlations don't matter, and at least you would be engaging. But you refuse to do that. Instead, you dissemble, you lie, you obfuscate, and you insult, all to hide the fact that your "postion" is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and that you couldn't name a precise policy, if it jumped and bit you in the face.

Once again, you reject reality at you own peril. And you accusing others of doing so, doesn't make your position, insofar as you have one, any stronger. It just makes you look like an ass.

Now go back to whatever cesspool you came from.

>>14592157
>A tiny bottle of some bitch's bathwater shouldn't be worth more than an hour's work of a laborer
It shouldn't be but it is. Normative statements are not economics. Marxism is not scientific. Kill yourself.

>>14592120

I don't deny what you're saying, but I'm actively not trying to win hearts and minds at the moment. I'm a tourist enjoying a slice of absurdity. Why do you think I became active in a thread on Marxist economics in /biz/? I'm literally here to bask in absurdity.

>>14592205

> Belle's Bathwater is economics bitch, it shouldn't be, but kill yourself.

Fuck off. If anyone should kill themselves it should be people who don't like the way things are but absolutely refuse to look for a solution.

At least have the balls to tell me that buying Belle's bathwater for 24 pounds is as close to a perfect economy as we could get before asking me to kill myself.

>>14592208
You may not be trying to win hearts and minds, but it couldn’t be more obvious that you’re here to try to show off. I’ve given you some tips to be able to show off more effectively, if you’re able to grasp them

Does capitalism promote innovation or profit? Are they mutually exclusive?

>>14592308
I like the way things are because I am a capitalist. I wouldn't buy her bathwater though because I am not a chump.

Belle's bathwater IS described by mainstream economics no matter how much you screech and cry about it. Supply and demand. Again, normative statements are not economics and you should get the fuck off /biz/ and fuck off back to /leftypol/ on 2^3chan if you hate it so much

>>14592405

Do you care about what happens to your communities, local or otherwise (religious, ethnic, etc.)?

Everything has a cause and effect, and supply and demand aren't the only ways to determine value.

>>14592461
I don't care if beta losers want to donate their wages to an e-thot. I do not consider them "my community". I want nothing to do with them.

>>14592187

Perverse incentives exist in any command economy. I pick churches as my example because while I believe in a higher power I recognize that organized religion is largely a system of mass control and your assertion that it establishes a meaningful social safety net coupled with your choice to identify as a libertarian-conservative tickles my funny bone.

>>14592346

I am engaging in some intellectual flexing I suppose.

>>14592373

There's a fine line. On some level it enables innovation, but taken past a point it merely co-opts the process of innovation while extracting rent from it.

>>14592461
Also, my ethnic group has been harmed much more by communism than it has by capitalism (my family is from Taiwan) so fucking miss me with that bullshit.

>>14592579
>I am engaging in some intellectual flexing I suppose.
Nothing wrong with that, but it’s important to learn the game. For example, despite engaging in shameless hypocrisy by doing nothing but being critical without staking out any kind of position myself, I managed to get you to properly talk with me for a bit, so I’ll call that a success

>>14590014
>yfw there's incels who come to hyper capitalist cigar afficanido SharePoint to shill for literal shitskin ideology
Gonna be a yikes for me faggot

>>14592670

For me part of the game is sometimes telling people that they are wrong in such a fashion that they consciously reject it.

>>14592518

Like it or not though, you share a society with them. In 2019, we're already seeing the effects technology and the sexual revolution is having on birth rates and relationships for example. This might not effect you personally, but this will effect society as a whole and effect the environment in which your own children will grow up. A similar example could be used in how women entering the workplace en mass had a profound effect on society, or how hypersexuality in the media has played with the mental images men and women have of themselves causing psychological problems such as transexuality.

You can't retreat from the world forever.

>>14592656

It doesn't have to be black and white. I'm not advocating for communism. Only in America does Communism = Socialism.

>>14592708
>like it or not, beta losers blow their paychecks on Belle'a bathwater so you need to subsidize their student loans that they donated to e-thots and pay for their housing!!!!!
Nope. Fuck you commie faggot. /biz/ is a capitalist board. Fuck off back to /leftypol/. Day of the helicopter when?

>>14592743

> /biz/ is a capitalist board.

That's what you think.

>>14592686
It’s more fun for me to try to get into people’s heads enough to be able to say something that results in a genuine communication being transmitted. Since rejecting is everyone’s first instinct, just about anything will result in rejection, but only a few things result in mutually useful communication. YMMV though, at the end of the day there’s only so much you can do through anonymous shitposting, though it’s a lot more than I initially thought when I first started posting here

>>14592799
Post etherscan /leftypol/ invader. Be sure to include some form of cryptographic proof that it's you.

>>14592806

Normally I'm more interested in persuading people to change their opinions, but I am in a strange mood at the moment.

>>14592849
Well, thanks for listening in a friendly way to what I had to say regardless

>>14592949

You're welcome. My mood to simply contradict is probably just passing.

>>14591117
>What you don't understand is that to me you sound like a young earth creationist, or someone who is "skeptical" of evolution, or a flat-earther, or an anti-vaxxer.
Not an argument

>>14591474
>I think that power hierarchies emerge from political, economic, social, and technological climates. As climates change those power hierarchies are put under new pressures until they crack under pressure that they cannot adapt to. I personally believe that the nature of the power elite is cyclical. The beginning of a cycle is when the bulk of the power elite originate from upward movement according to asymmetrical competition while the end of the cycle is when the bulk of the power elite are hanging on to their position through the almost sole exercise of power politics against emergent competitors engaging in a newly dominant mode of competition in an asymmetrical struggle.
Words words words words words. What's the argument here?

>>14591779
But everyone is equal and that's ALL THAT MATTERS, fuck you beourgioiiise scum!

>>14591927
>All communisms should be thrown out of helicopters.
Based and augustopilled

>>14593303
Leftists can't actually into math or real economics so they spout out a bunch of critical theory horseshit and technobabble. Statistics and falsifiability mean nothing to a Marxist.

>>14591966
>on the communal level.
Ah yes, vague-ify your argument with the word "communal", means nothing.

>The bathwater is a good example of a product that according to Capitalism is highly valued but in actuality doesn't benefit the community in any meaningful way.
That is not for you determine. That is up to the buyer

Oh look, it's another edition of "The Trailer Park Thinks it Knows Best".

>>14591966
What’s the actual solution you propose though? There are probably tens of millions of people out there capable of eloquently describing the supposed problem and saying that things should be better. It’s finding a solution that doesn’t lead to disaster that’s the trouble, just like there are thousands of wrong solutions to any engineering problem but only a few that most people would agree are “right”, and which are predictably quite hard to find among all the superficially attractive but fatally flawed ones. Capitalism is literally known to work, for some definition of “working” that quite a few people are willing to accept as really working. Marxism, in contrast, has never even once been demonstrated to work the way its proponents claim it’s supposed to

>>14592157
>force has always been the great equaliser
No lol, force is the divider because you have little and the state has a lot

>>14590151
Increasing their taxes crowds out the middle class and makes everyone into a serf. Besides, under liberal democracy the rich control the government through lobbying, corporate board positions and activist NGOs, so by just paying tax they move their money from pool A to pool B but control how the money is spent at any rate.

>>14591117
Gdiaf, youre pathetic and nobody is falling for your shit here. Try >>>/r/leddit instead

>>14594220
>higher taxes crowds out the middle class
Wut

>>14590014
If you were a marxist living in your marxist utopia you wouldnt have a degree in economics bought with student loan, you'd be a factory worker being the brainlet you are.

>>14594317
The more you increase the tax rate, the more difficulty smaller enterprises have because they can't absorb the costs or use connections with the State. Most of that tax is going to be redistributed as gibs at any rate.

>>14594385
Total bs.

>>14594454
It's not. All you're doing when you raise taxes in and of itself under the current system is moving money from pool A to pool B, but the same persons are dictating how the money in both pools is to be spent. If you want money to stop being spent so poorly, you need to entirely reject the modern liberal form of government (representative democracy/parliamentarianism, "A government of laws, not men!", and so on)

>>14594536
Do you even read your posts lmao

>>14594584
Yes. How difficult is it to understand that in an oligarchy, the oligarchs determine how the money is spent? You can't tax an oligarchy out of existence, you have to increase state power and forcibly bring them to heel and prevent them from harmfully influencing the State.

>>14594611
Oligarchy is the state by definition.
And this has to do with the middle class how?

>>14594795
Oligarchy is only the State by definition when you adopt an (erroneous) Marxist/materialist worldview that asserts that the State is nothing but an instrument of class power.

>>14594821
Wut. What do you think the state is? A bunch of civil servants saluting a flag?
If the state is an oligarchy, the oligarchy is the state

>>14590076
Your professors were Jews or mind controlled golem of Jews

>>14590498
Based! People here on biz won’t like to here criticism of capitalism because it interferes with their visions of social prestige and making it.

The reality is though capitalism is a garbage system and only those ontop and in control (jews) benifit from it. “Making it” in this system is not turly making it. Only when we as a people reclaim the world’s throne will we ever truly make it.

>>14590014
Fuck commies and pigs.
This is a national socialist board

>>14591435
China ist not marxist they are capitalists

>>14591779
(((cronyism and nepotism)))

>>14595176
>"Making it” in this system is not turly making it
Cope

>Only when we as a people reclaim the world’s throne.
>we as a people
>we
There is no "we" you faggot. Just because we're both white doesn't mean we have anything in common, loser. I'd laugh to myself if you starved, normalfaggot

>>14596092
>normalfag
that's a word i haven't seen in at least a decade

>>14590304
No, they aren't you fucking retard.
Nazbol gang is a meme created by ifunniers to make fun of communists and nazis.

Che yourself brainlet
Sage

>>14596355
No it’s actually a real ideology

>>14596092
“Individualist” sociopaths like you get the rope

>>14594323
I didn't pay much for my degree. I am the legal secretary for a government agency. I don't think that's much different from what I'd be doing in a 'Marxist utopia'.

Are you saying communism is viable?

Show me an example of one country that got rich by central planning.
Protip: China doesn't centrally plan its economy, it's a wild west out there and easy as fuck to make your own company and sell whatever the fuck you want.

>>14592743
>>>14592308

Are you delusional? Attacking valid questions with ad honinems and claiming 'ME CAPITALIST' Doesn't reek of intelligence.

>>14597188
Every economy on earth has some degree of central planning, including the United States. To pretend otherwise is delusional

>>14597188
Spurdo spärde ofcourse.

We are literally nazis.

>>14597199
I could say the same about any country founded under the flag of communism, because EVERY single one of them kept using money.
And communism is supposed to abolish money, you know that, right?

>>14597216
Finland has a lot of economic freedom. Not very "communist" if you ask me, even if a huge proportion of industries are owned by the state to some degree.

>>14597224
Yes, I’m well aware of what communism is supposed to be according to Marx

>>14597216
Based

>>14597252
The meme says it’s modeled on natsoc not communism

>>14597188
GL if you're not a chink.

>there are two economic theories, Capitalism and Marxism
Being a political philosophy student is suffering

>>14597252
Well the privatization has been ongoing for decades now.

for example Finland had a state controlled export cartel in forest industries and they didin't close it down until EU membership when the competition act had to be rewritten.

Spank mee

>>14591730
The absolute brainlets that browse this board

>>14590290
>arguing like a Jew
You mean, effectively, like Kissinger?
Or you mean like Jews within their own families... constantly?

>>14597313
Yeah, why does everyone get to uppidy about Marx.
Keynes is the real current threat.

>>14590014
Props to you for not getting brainwashed, I heard uni econ professors in the US are unironically pro capitalism
I don't have a degree, and you literally have to only have a basic grasp of economics to understand that capitalism is inherently batshit evil and unsustainable
Does that mean I am LE COMMIE? No
Does that mean I don't want to prosper and get filthy rich and function in this economic system? No
Most people don't develop a drop of critical thinking through their formative years so they can't fathom that finding something objectively evil and fucked doesn't equal you rebelling against it and living your whole life based on rebelling against it
>>14590071
this anon gets it

If you unironically celebrate a system that HAS TO FUNCTION on de facto slave labor to exist with the rationale of LOL POOR PEOPLE ARE STOOPID you're fucking brain dead

Is there any country with a high standard of living that hasn't adopted capitalism?

>>14591435
china is as marxist as a 15 year buying a t-shirt with "destroy capitalism" with his pocket money

>>14590071
>Picketty
Picketty is a retarded hack. He proposes to extra-tax the very people that generate wealth for everyone, instead of going after the useless parasitic corporatist managerial class, that along with rent-seeking politicians and lobbyists is at the core of all economic problems.

Capitalism isn't the issue, the issue is corporatism. Picketty is too much of a brainlet to get that, probably because He never generated an ounce of wealth for anyone and is a parasitic rent-seeker himself.

>>14590014
venezuela