/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>14421176
>I want to live in a hell
fixed

>>14421176
I wrote this last year in Oct, it's been my only post on biz since then, I mostly lurk (and 99.99% of the content is utter shit)

>I know people meme about triggering the next bull, but it's true, not without LINK being the bull first.

>Just watch, billions will pour into the market when dApps using LINK start surfacing. I'm not talking about market cap billions, I mean real billions moving that market cap well above the trillions mark.

>Data is the future of value, and LINK is about to connect it to the trustless smart contract landscape, this is paradigm shifting.

>I've been a developer for over a decade, every single idea I've had for a dapp that is now a possibility with trustless smart contracts has relied on external data, do you really think I'm the only developer waiting for this crucial piece of infrastructure? Not a chance. A lot of new ideas and potential will surface.

>Really think ZeppelinOS is going to be the only one baking LINK in? Give it a month after mainnet is live and i guarantee you'll see Truffle integrate it as part of their framework, and if they don't, I'll do it myself and open the pull requests.

>I admire Vitalik, but he's short sighted with decentralized oracle's, I think of him as one of the original Unix creators who built a fantastic OS, but probably wouldn't see the point in an internet browser... their focus is on different things and that's perfect because we'll get the best of both.

>When the price rises it's always tempting to sell my LINK, but I know this hasn't even started yet, I get the same shaking thinking about all the possibilities I got when I discovered ETH.

>Disclaimer: Only because we're getting so close to mainnet do I feel like bringing this awareness one more time because /biz is where I found LINK when trying to answer the question of how to pull external data into my smart contracts. I honestly couldn't care if you buy or not, but doing what I feel I owe. This is my one and only thread.

>>14421176
>t. proud cuckold

>>14421176
LINK trader here
thanks for the money you dumb fuck

Someone in it for the tech? that's a sight for the sore eyes

>>14421176

Are you lubing up your anus cause sergay is going to dump his 650 million StainStinks down your thorat?

FOURTH INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
A fully optimized world

>>14421231
Now this is a quality post. Thank you for your contribution my fellow marine, we're all going to make it. It's rather sad that most of /biz/ is such garbage but people like you are the reason I keep coming back again and again.

>>14421231
What price you selling at buddy

>>14421231
>>14421231
unironically this. based

i'm a long time software dev and product person / i work with so many of the top tech startups and companies in the world when creating new products. I've been in chainlink since 2017 and was unfazed by our bear market. basically, anyone i mention chainlink to either is:

1. skeptical because they don't understand what chainlink is / basic blockchain fundamentals (their own ignorance and fault). This is usually because they don't know about smart contracts, the oracle problem, what decentralization actually means etc.

or

2. beyond excited when they hear it that they immediately go and buy chain link because they say "this makes total sense and i see why this is absolutely needed for mainstream blockchain adoption." These people tend to be more educated on the technology and understand the pros / cons and limitations currently (to a certain extent).

chainlink will do for blockchain what the app store basically did for mobile, it'll allow us to actually create new products without having to create an oracle every single time to fetch all these data feeds. better yet, this shit is trustless which is a huge deal when dealing with large amounts of money in deals at stake. maybe a better example is chainlink will do for blockchain what google cloud / aws did for servers (not needing to run your own server on site, but can just spin up machines and scale super easily), but its not as sexy sounding as my previous example.

again, im not a hype guy, its literally just fact at this point that chainlink is positioning itself to become the industry standard for connecting blockchains to real world applications. potential is massive, esp with the latest endorsements and integrations. If swift ends up really using link, boom.

>>14421791
>Being this excited about a glorified jsnon parser
Stop trying to scam /biz/ brainlets pajeet

>>14421976
this thread isnt even popular, normies won't find it. unless they look hard enough, they'll still think link is a scam.

i love how well the link is a meme meme meme meme worked as our strategy, but now child its time to let our coin blossom.

>>14421176
do you understand that most sites (take weather.com) give out apis to access (weather) data free. no insurance company will automatically trust something like this to pay out under any conditions (take bad weather flooding farm). Anyone could say herp derp look hurricane nearby my house is rekt and get a payout, when they actually got lucky and it missed them completely? You can never close the trustless loop.

The future will be customer pays insurance -> has accident -> drone verifies -> human verifies input -> human pays insured. There will never be automatic payouts beacuse humans are shitty.

>>14422085
>thinks links purpose is for the public facing apis
>doesn't understand that most apis are not public
>thinks people want to pay meaningful %'s to 3rd parties to facilitate deals

>>14422133
if its not a public api, how do you trust it? if the insurance company sets up their own API to verify - why does anyone need link if you still rely on the insurance company? i'm really struggling to see how it becomes trustless.

>>14422013
I know man it’s fun to meme though I only have 1.2k linkies currently, But a fair stack of BTC and ETH. Should I throw another 2k into stinkers over the next 3 weeks?

>>14422173
Definitely yes fren!

>>14422085
>humans are shitty
You're 100% correct on this assessment, give people an option and there'll always be a group to abuse it.
>trustless smart contracts
read that first word again
then one more time
Entities can't be trusted to be honest 100% on the time and chainlink finally provides a smart contracts a way to be useful
>Weather API will never work
Of course it will, but it all depends on what's defined in the contract, the insurance company would be a retard to rely on that input as a sole input, they'll have multiple data sources verifying the input, who'll be forced to stake substantial LINK to ensure consumers of their fairness policy.

Next time you question Chainlink and how it won't work, remember there's people much smarter than you who've already considered any problem you can conjure up in 5 minutes.
The contract is the rule, you either accept the terms or the creator must define rules that their customers are happy with

>>14422147
If you read the white paper, they explain it pretty well. Zero knowledge proofs have everything to do with this. Furthermore, it can be a combination of both public and private apis. Also look up what town crier was doing and how they collaborated with ChainLink before they got bought out by them.


https://blog.chain.link/town-crier-and-chainlink/

>>14422173
Most definitely

>>14422485
This is why the community is toxic. I know there is smarter people than me, I just don't want to take their word for it because they are smart. I have obviously read the whitepaper, and am still struggling with the topic.

>>14422519
One question I am looking for answer to - how do you prove crops/house/whatever has been destroyed for purpose of insurance? You can prove bad weather happened to a degree of accuracy with radar - but how do you prove destruction occurred naturally without human interaction? This is why insurance adjusters go out to physically verify no fraud occurred.

The insurance company wont just blindly trust some datasource to say bad weather happened, they need to physically verify. Once this human step needs to occur and they need to have the final say in payout due to frauds - There just becomes no use to smart contracts I can see in the insurance industry.

>>14422656
That's for the insurance company to define those terms and for the consumer to agree to them.
Why not use IoT devices to input as many details as necessary?
The car industry already does this, you can add a GPS device with a built in accelerometer that measures your speed, and if you drive safely and within the agreed upon limits about what safe is as defined by the insurance company, then you get a bigger discount on your monthly payments.
This already happens... but it's their word against yours, they hold the data, they own the device.
What you want is an external IoT device that has nothing to do with the company, that implements open source software based on industry standard to be responsible for providing data, their only incentive is to provide data reliably, then insurance companies can use that data to define terms in their insurance smart contracts, and their incentive is to offer the best terms of contract.

Invest in LINK, and IoT companies for boomer stocks

>>14422656
Yeah you’re not wrong, you just need to think a little deeper.

You’re right basic weather data wouldn’t be enough, but let’s say something like crops there are a multitude of sensors. It wouldn’t be a single one, it would be multiple. The types of data they can collect will all indicate different things, such as thermal temperature and anything you can physically measure. This data cannot really be tampered with if both parties agree on the acceptable data sources for their smart contract.

Lots of facilities already use these kinds of sensors for power stations such as flow rate, heat temperatures to determine how much power was generated and sold on the grid each day (since the power amount fluctuates). In this instance, imagine ChainLink pulls weather data in addition to this sensor data to automatically determine these figures. I personally know of one company that got screwed by someone tampering with the data to rig it in their favor costing them 100’s of thousands of dollars a month.

>>14421231
No wonder you only post this.

>>14421231
>i guarantee you'll see Truffle integrate it as part of their framework, and if they don't, I'll do it myself and open the pull requests.

And congrats on not having to do their work lol

based and redpilled. Same OP

link will bring about a hypercapitalist crypto anarchic world

>>14422779
>>14422806
IoT is the missing piece of it and lots of time, I guess. That makes more sense now.

Im a dev in the software industry and work with custom harnesss hardwired into semis and such. they look at things like refridgeration temp, gps, seatbelt sensors. You will be surprised how creative long haul truck drivers will get. We can't even automatically file IFTA reports without human interaction because GPS distance wont match what the odometer reports.

Most drivers know you can get a portable 3g jammer, haul ass and blame it on GPS drift. The units only can store ~2 hours of data, and the drivers are paid by the load - not the hour. Legally they can't speed with a CDL though so traffic and everything is literally coming out of their pay.

That human piece will be there for a good long time to verify, because we can't be trusted.

>>14421176
I want to live in a world where Chinese people are eliminated. I get scammed everyday and just today a woman cut me in line. Can’t wait for there to be no more scammers.

>>14421176
>I don't care if LINK makes me rich
>>14421176
>All I care about is that it succeeds as a project.
as if those things are mutually exclusive
>hint: they go in tandem

>>14421231
Got any other insights since you called Truffle many moons ago?

>>>/v/468405609

subtle shill, we are the jews now

>>14422988
OP here, my ID had been changing because I'm on the move, about to be disconnected.

Truffle is the most widely adopted smart contract framework, it was clear.
I won't spoon-feed, if I was you I'd start looking at who's currently using Truffle and companies who attend TruffleCon next month. They've just been provided with a solution to the oracle problem and have Oracle and Google promoting it.
Be sure to cross reference companies who attend (hope employees post on Twitter) with those who's infrastructure is already built in GCP.
GCP didn't write that tutorial for shits and giggles, their customers were asking for it, you need to keep your eyes peeled if you want to know ahead of everyone else.

Or you can just sit back, live your life and relax and stop giving a shit, they're all coming anyway regardless of when

>>14421176
>>14423261

nice thread OP and this anon >>14421231

reading all this reminds me of pre sibos when I first found link and thinking i'd be a fucking idiot not to buy in and support this project. two years ago and look at us now. the tech, the investment, the memes, the bear market, the doubters, I wouldnt trade this shit for anything. it's weird but link has truly enhanced my life in so many ways and ive developed more individually in this time through the ride more than any other in my life.

based thread

>>14421176
glad to hear you took the cuckpill, op

>>14422173
Get out of BTC and ETH, go all in on Link. You'll make much more

>>14423567
Yeah, when I saw actual discussion was excited since reminded me back in the day when there was actual discussion. Now it’s all the nufags that are populating with shitty threads.

Still unironically believe 1000$ Link is FUD, not eoy ofc but by top of next run projected to end 2022-Mid-2013. By 2030 I don’t even know how we can estimate its impact (if the project achieves its goal and success). It’s also too crazy to think about since we are only at 2$, but $10,000 per link is totally a possibility way down the line

Binance actually means
Bisexual finance

>>14423651
Putting another 1k into stinkers this week fren. What’s a realistic stack look like to make it?

>>14423924
Depends on how long you are willing to hold and what making it for you is. If 1mil is the answer for you and 4 years is the target, 1000 link will get somewhere around there

>>14422656
>One question I am looking for answer to - how do you prove crops/house/whatever has been destroyed for purpose of insurance?

This is very good question. You may have seen this already but one possible answer is "parametric insurance"
The idea is that the insured gets paid out based solely on objectively verifiable parameters.
So, in the case of hurricane insurance, the homeowner gets paid based on variables like "a hurricane of intensity x came within y meters of your home, therefore your payout is z"
Similarly for earthquake, "an earthquake of x on the richter scale occured with epicenter y kilometers from your home and so your payout is z"
Of course this doesn't take into account that one person's house got destroyed while their neighbor got luckier. But the benefit is the whole process of dealing with the payments is much simpler, payments happen more quickly

More here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_insurance

>>14423977
I figure making it is around 3 million, I already have like 2.75 BTC, 25 ETH and 1.1k stinkies and 50 NEO and another 15-25k fiat to trickle into the market over the next few months. I don’t necessarily have to “make it” this cycle but I would like to be able to quit my job in the next 3-4 months and NEET it up for a year or two.

>>14423261
>I won't spoon-feed, if I was you I'd start looking at who's currently using Truffle and companies who attend TruffleCon next month. They've just been provided with a solution to the oracle problem and have Oracle and Google promoting it.

As someone who wants to run a node this is good stuff. I am looking for API providers to carve out my niche. I was tempted to shoot Oracle an email or tweet at Fernando if they'll be allowing their start ups to get in contact with oracle node operators.

>>14423857
how is $1k link fud? isn't that shilling?

This is what convinced me to buy in i.e. FOMO @ 2.15 USD
I believe in Chainlink from a purely development standpoint. It excites me the way that Bitcoin did in 2012/2013 when I was 15 with no job and no money to go all in. Call it linklet cope, cuck rage or whatever, I don't care about money that much. Chainlink is good and my investment promotes goodness in the world. If I lose all my holdings it will have been worth it.

>>14423924
I bought 3k. 3 million is the target and telling my boss to lick my balls and masturbate in front of her

>>14424069

That’s a pretty comfy stack I would put more into link at this point. 25 ETH and the 2.5 btc should appreciate enough between now and then that should allow you to Neet. Maybe not quit in 3-4 months, but by January I think is a reasonable target. If you buy link for 15-25k between now and then, should get you 5-12k extra which will be beyond comfy 3-4 years from now at the latest. If you have iron hands and want even more, sell at somewhere near the top of that bull run, wait out the following long bear market and buy up 2-3x your prev stack while keep the rest as profit

>>14423567
>it's weird but link has truly enhanced my life in so many ways and ive developed more individually in this time through the ride more than any other in my life.

Agree with this and agree that this is a nice thread. Nice to see actual good discussion on biz from time to time. It's what keeps me coming back.

>>14424038
Following up on this, I think something to keep in mind is not literally every circumstance will work with link. But if Link can automate a significant portion of the market that can use these objective parameters/data feeds only, it will be utterly massive for a majority of instances

>>14421176
then go build something useful for the space instead of bagholding the shitcoin expecting to get rich. because we all know that deep inside youre in it to get rich. fuck you

>>14424097
Nah, it’s fud because they set it as a ceiling, whereas the potential not (really trying to be somewhat hype less when I say this) is much greater than that.

It’s not traditional fud, but it’s similar I guess to those who used to claim ETH will be $10 at most which as we know was incorrect. 1000$ is an amazing outcome, it’s just not the truly best of its potential

>>14424152
I'm hitting levels of the opposite.
I've been lurking and holding for so long i want to hunt down and murder other 10k+ Linkies for the FUD of it.
>pic related

>>14424191
thank you anon

>>14424162
>But if Link can automate a significant portion of the market that can use these objective parameters/data feeds only, it will be utterly massive for a majority of instances

Yes this is a great point. It raises the more general point that, IMHO anyway, it is likely we will see lots of hybrid situations. So, to take this example, homeowner would likely get a MIX of insurance, one part parametric and one part traditional, where the adjuster actually comes out.

Similarly with smart contracts for derivatives, we are likely to see the first ones as hybrid where smart contract handles, say, the objective, easily parameterized part, e.g. calculating based on price of crude oil on a particular date, while other parts are handled through traditional written contract, e.g. "A will use commercially reasonable efforts to obtain funding for B" That's how International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) is thinking about it anyway.

>>14424168
This is a horrible attitude to take and one of the reasons why crypto trading is never taken seriously.
You invest in something because you believe that it's good and will do good things. If money is your preeminent concern you're either poorfag or future psychopathic coke fiend.

>>14424223
This.

it’s what ChainLink is meant to be. Automate things you can automate with no middle men and third parties in deals, and utilize traditional means to complement it when necessary

>>14423261
>Truffle is the most widely adopted smart contract framework, it was clear.

OP appreciate this thread. Understand if you don't want to spoonfeed but would be grateful for some advice.
I'm seeing a few different platforms out there for creating smart contracts/digitizing agreements
1. DAML from digital asset
2. Openlaw
3. Clause

and wondering what you think of them. Asking because I want to sit down and learn one and curious for advice on what is the best use of my time, or whether should be focused on something else.

>>14424254
>it’s what ChainLink is meant to be. Automate things you can automate with no middle men and third parties in deals, and utilize traditional means to complement it when necessary

Yeah, this is a big point. I come from a legal background (although don't practice much these days) and this is a big issue I'm struggling with.

Lots of folks in legal world, both in practice and in academia, are completely oblivious to all this and very quick to dismiss it. Immediately go to crazy hypotheticals that are basically "terminator scenario" -- smart contract is immutable therefore will never work. A lot of this of course is just typical lawyer bs where they are afraid of change. But I also think they really don't get it that this is a TOOL and we don't need to and will not immediately jump to the point where automated smart contracts rule every transaction. There will be long period of learning how to apply this tech. I'm actually very excited about that and trying to figure out how I can be part of it.

>>14424269
All these platforms are useful imo, but if they want to utilize blockchain and trustless smart contracts at scale, they will need to use decentralized oracles to truly make their smart contracts “tamper proof” so that both parties feel safe with an automated deal

Clause I believe does not solve this problem, none of them solve for this technology need. If they decide not to use blockchain at all, then that’s a different story.

>>14424141
That’s the plan for going full NEET is sell maybe half my stack possibly 60-70% if BTC goes over 100k and put 25-40k of those earnings aside to buy back in at the bottom a year or so into the next bear market. My hands are steel I think what I’ll do is tell my job in August/September I plan on quitting to give them 3-4 months to hire someone new and for me to train them since October marks my 2 year mark in my first “career” wage cuck job.

>>14424254
>>14424223
>>14424162
I would never claim to be an expert on smart contracts and their use cases but I do have a background in data infrastructure management and design; all of you are substantially underestimating the value added that a business / financial services firm would stand to benefit from a tool like Chainlink.
Smart contracts within the space of enterprise resource planning alone stand to transform international commerce from the bottom up. Without inherent specifity to Chainlink, I believe 110% smart contract technology unequivocally stands to impact the exchange of assets and influence the development of future financial instruments on a global stage.
If you're on the fence with link, buy it because it's good and will be used to do good things.

>>14424509
Yeah, we mainly were talking about one specific example since really even ChainLink outlines 44 use cases in their medium article.

You’re totally right though and I completely agree with you, but to keep things more simple for explanatory reasons giving a more straightforward example goes a long way in these kinds of discussions

>>14424447
Pretty solid plan imo

>>14424366
>Clause I believe does not solve this problem, none of them solve for this technology need. If they decide not to use blockchain at all, then that’s a different story.
thanks for feedback.

Yes it seems like clause is not focused on this problem and they've been up front about that. In the case of their parametric insurance contract, they don't see the oracle problem as a high priority. Peter Hunn of clause has referred to distinction between "self executing" and "enforcement of state" The first refers to the software making, say, a CALCULATION automatically while the latter refers to actually transferring an asset. I respectfully disagree with him about their approach, but I respect what they are doing. [as you probably know, there has been a lot of weird fud on biz about all this. I just think atm Clause is focused on a different problem and good luck to them]

Openlaw has been quite, well, open about NOT solving this problem and are (or were) partnering with chainlink. I also saw that they are partnering with rhombus. I don't understand much about rhombus, or how they relate to chainlink if at all. Need to research that.

DAML is actually the one I'm most excited about so perhaps I've answered my own question about which to learn first. They are mostly focused on enterprise applications. I don't know but I suspect first widespread use of smart contracts will be with enterprises, and specifically derivatives, insurance and shipping.

But not even sure about that right now, given recent announcement from Oracle and working with startups to sell their data using chainlink.

Interesting times, and again, thanks for great thread.

BTW you've now convinced me that I need to get up to trufflecon. Seattle in August is pretty nice and have family there as well.

I read the LINK whitepaper.
I understand LINK.

What I don't understand is why you think you understand LINK if you're saying that.
Tell me exactly, how is LINK going to tell whether a particular transaction was legit or not?
That's the oracle problem. Normally you hire a middleman to faciliate that - there's a human present so he can use his brain to determine.
Now how exactly, without a literal conscious AI, do you think this is going to work in a decentralized blockchain?

Sorry but either I misunderstood link completely or you guys are just retards. Most likely the former, since there would be more people noticing otherwise.
If that is the case, could someone please explain to me how exactly is a decentralized blockchain going to solve the oracle problem which is more of an AI thing?

>>14424509
>you are substantially underestimating the value added that a business / financial services firm would stand to benefit from a tool like Chainlink.

If I gave that impression then I did a bad job of conveying my views! I believe that smart contracts, ESPECIALLY with reliable (i.e. decentralized) oracles are set to transform the world. I am DEFINITELY not sitting on the fence either! Basically my whole net worth (other than 401k) is in link right now.

What's exciting to me is, I started practicing law a while back and was immediately frustrated by how backwards the legal system is and how it refuses to innovate. Spent time in several startups trying to sell tech to lawfirms and also trying to provide legal help to consumers and small businesses. Kept slamming up against barriers and feeling that I wasn't making much of an impact. Decided to step back and think about "what would really move the needle" (sorry for cliche). First hit upon the idea of Legal AI and started going down that road. Then, somehow wound up on biz and learning about chainlink and smart contracts. I truly think this tech can transform society and make the legal system work better for everyone. I am 100% all in. It's just interesting to me when I try to explain this to folks, even pretty savvy sophisticated folks, they push back. Trying to get better at explaining this tech and it's potential. I'm not much of a coder, but I'm hoping I can make a contribution by teaching people about the potential.

>>14424679
>Tell me exactly, how is LINK going to tell whether a particular transaction was legit or not?

Short answer is it depends on the transaction. In many cases transactions depend on, let's call it, objectively verifiable information. Examples
1) Derivative contract that pays out based on the value of a commodity on a given day
2) Parametric insurance (mentioned above) that pays out based on whether an earthquake of given intensity occured within a given area
3) a bet on a sporting event that depends on the final score

In each case, chainlink provides a decentralized system of nodes who are incentivized to agree on the right value.

Now, what about a contract re: whether the scuff marks on the wall of your apartment count as "reasonable wear and tear"? Well, my guess is eventually there will even be a clever solution for that. But in the meantime, there are lots of contracts based on fairly simple, objective parameters, and the current system for dealing with them is pretty cumbersome.

>>14424539
>>14424731
We're on the same page.
My explanation to anyone interested is that it's the future full stop. Brevity is the soul of wit. It's 1981 and Apple just launched IPO.
In terms of technology, link is ten times the opportunity btc ever was. With any understanding of what it is or what it does, it's a no brainer.

>>14422895
This whole thread makes me want to sell

>>14425188
I can understand a general apprehension but how can you be decidedly pessimistic about an innovation this momentous? You're some kind of commie larper or something?
You were never going to save the world, bro. Stoicism isn't resistance, it's cowardice.

>>14421176
>im in it for the tech

>>14425250
>I poo poo for the pee pee
ah bloo bloo

This, I would be lying though if I said the money isn't nice, but I will bear my linkies back to oblivion if I have to

>>14425704
Robust post, 100% based.