/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>13959670
privacy by default and first mover advantage. its the bitcoin of privacy coins

>>13959686
this
Any other privacy coin will be playing catch up.

>>13959670
It has the problem whereby its defining feature is something you don't need to 'hodl' to take advantage of. If you want to launder your money, just buy some monero, transfer to a second exchange account while on a VPN, and cash back out to bitcoin.

Still, I think it'll go on a mega moon if we ever get a new wave of global economic progressivism/socialism. It's the perfect instrument for the ultra-wealthy to hide their billions with when governments knock on their door looking to collect their 50% wealth tax.

>>13959686
ZCash is technically better BUT, developers are actual kikes and would work with governments. Also not sure if its totally open source, an obvious big red flag for a cryptocurrency. The only real advantage this has over Monero is private balances. You could get around this on Monero by having a 'holding' wallet and a 'spending' wallet. Your spending wallet will have its balance visible but it'll always be small amounts to cover transactions, it cannot be linked back to your main wallet. I really like Monero.

>>13959670
Superior memes

I might have 3 monero.

>>13959717
Based.

It's not gonna moon. Ltc will steal the code and monero will rot

>>13959727
>ZCash is technically better BUT, developers are actual kikes and would work with governments

this is non sarc why in zcash
if you cant beat em join em i say

>>13959856
Based strokeposter

Dont buy Poonero
Shitcoin Scam
Flufypon and team will dump all the premine and dev fee at literally any moment now
Dont buy this shit
Poonero SCAM

>>13959686
This is my belief too

>>13959727
>The only real advantage this has over Monero is private balances. You could get around this on Monero by having a 'holding' wallet and a 'spending' wallet.
Monero has no richlist. You can't view wallet balances by just knowing an address so you really don't need to have a "spend" and "hold" address, though you can do this pretty easily through the official GUI wallet if your address being linked outside of Monero.

>>13960586
>hurr
Should say "if you were concerned about your address being linked outside of Monero."

>why moon?

Tech doesn't matter, all of crypto is a retarded joke, Monero established itself early as THE privacy coin and it's too late for any of the other faggots to catch up. It'll moon, eventually.

>>13960793
But why will it moon if people would normally need to just use it temporarily.

>>13960793
Agreed, but I hedged with some ZCash just because it's so much more normie investor friendly. Or, if the institutional money meme comes into play, I can see them going with ZCash since it's already on Jewbase and Gemini.

>>13960847
fungibility and usability. not to mention tail emission. rich fags will probably use it to cold storage their huge stacks of cash and transact big amounts privately. once crypto replaces fiat (its going to happen) XMR will be the de facto coin for illicit opportunities which as we all know is filled with tons of big players.

>>13959727
>developers are actual kikes and would work with governments.
this is exactly why zcash will fail and why it'll never be better than monero. ricardo is the exact kind of person you would want to be developing and spearheading a project such as XMR. im really glad ricardo is the main guy behind xmr. perfect type of person. another anon already explained to you why xmr balances are still private

>>13960847
Full disclosure, my portfolio is 80% xmr and 20% btc... that's it.

I'm older than most people here and I remember the dotcom boom in the 90s, and the people who invested in the few solid companies that answered the question: "why do you exist" became very very wealthy. I see crypto as the opportunity for me to invest, as if I were to, in Ebay, Google and Amazon in the beginning. Monero is actually a cryptocurrency, and while btc is accepted in more places (monero isn't that far behind), it's basically become the defacto SoV and index fund for for the crypto economy... whereas xmr actually does what it's intended to do.

Sometimes things just need to get their foot in the door, Amazon used to only sell books, now it sells EVERYTHING. Tinder used to be only for weirdos hooking up, now it's the most popular dating app. If the future of currency is cryptocurrency, then why not just use what people are already using... even if they were just drug dealers, pedos and tax evaders.

the greatest thing is that it was already declared by the powers that be that there is no distinct difference between a privacy coin and a non privacy coin

>>13959670
Because it has steady development and research. Also tail emission, privacy by default, fungibility, decentralization.

>>13959727
>Zcash is technically better
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
No.

Monero is the sturdiest, most technogically advanced privacy coin. Period. 100% anonymous transactions, they do everything right. EVERYTHING. Monero has literal ex-NASA engineers working on it.

>>13960943
>amazon was literally jeff bezos working out of an office by himself at first
>monero is literally going to follow the same trajectory that amazon did

>>13961721
This. "investor friendly" instead of "good technology" already sounds like a huge red flag. Probably a scam just to make $$$.

>>13960999
>why zcash will fail
>backed by kikes and governments
anon...um...

>>13961882
>privacy
>government

>>13961930
zcash
winklevoss
coinbase
easy to use wallet
jew brain trust

youre literally betting against gravity right now

Don't buy Poonero
Shitcoin scam
Stay away from it
Premined shit
Devs are getting rich with the dev fee
SCAM SCAM

>>13959670
Grin vs Monero?

>>13960586
You can't view address balances of XMR wallets? What the fuck? How was I this retarded to not know this basic thing? I mined that shit for like 6 months in 2017. Alright fuck, then this obviously, hands down wins private crypto. No discissions.

>>13961971
well one thing is to be sure. if the winklevosses and coinbase are already in on it, then its already tainted and its too late anyway.
>>13961974
i appreciate the FUD to keep the price low so i may continue accumulating

>>13961882
also top kek at this shit logic. anything that is hated by governments and outlawed/banned by governments is always much more valuable than the government backed jew controlled dogshit like zec

>>13962072
all shilkite coins pump maybe not good for hodl but good for gains

>>13959792
I have 1

>>13962035
Nope. You can optionally share a viewkey with a third party to prove a transaction happened, so Monero is "optionally public" on a per transaction basis, but sharing a viewkey doesn't reveal an address balance.
>>13961985
Monero is superior for privacy.

>>13959670
t. unlimited supply

>>13962621
>unlimited supply
There will be less Monero than Bitcoin until like 2040. The tail emission is almost negligible.

>>13961212
Best post

>>13959670
It won't. GRIN is better by privacy and scalability.

>>13962951

I hear it's the new Espers

>>13961212

Rare to see an insightful intelligent post on /biz since this place is infested with retards trying to chase pumps with $100 portfolios.

XMR I feel 5-10 years from now will truly be the ultimate chad coin. I will like you have like 70/30 XMR to BTC in my holdings and i can fucking wait to make it.

>>13959670
If you want a privacy moon coin coupled with passive income buy Safex Token (SFT)

>>13959670
monero is literally run by a bunch of thin foil hat anti-gov paranoid autistic peoples
you cannot beat that for privacy

>>13960943
>hedge
If you suck at trading, buy xmr and zec and forget about em for a couple years.

>>13963397
I mean are they really paranoid though? With the reveals of the last decade everything people have been speculating that was happening since the inception of the internet has been proven to have been happening, and even more...

Now what I'm wondering is why monero is in a state of perpetually bleeding. Even during the "bigboom" monero only pulled a x2 in sats...

>>13963814

They are not paranoid haha. I promise you XMR will be used by the rich in the future to hide wealth as crypto starts really becoming mainstream.

Cyrpto is more and more starting to be seen as a store of value and Monero is BTC but better because it has the privacy and also because at 5 years old it is really starting to gain longevity and credibility.

>>13963953
Bitcoiners say bitcoin has survived longest so it's the most battle tested and safe. Actually Bitcoin is going to be a completely different system once the block reward runs out. Probably won't even work desu.

>>13963993
>Bitcoiners

Thats actually bullish considering XMR has tail emission so there will always be incentives for miners to continue mining Monero in the future indefinitely.

Also with bulletproofs they are really working on scaling for the future. I have a feeling it wont be used as digital cash but like digital private gold. What BTC should have really been.

>>13963362
SAFEX is a scam dont touch that coin created by some Serbian mafia
Only hearing safex it makes me vomit, disgusting coin disgusting people so repugnant shit vomit diarrhea std fecal herpes gonorrhea shit

>>13962621
This board has low IQ. Moneros supply is limited at any point in time. It has a slow inflation, under one percent per year. Holder need to pay for network security too.

The main reason to use privacy coins is to 'wash' BTC. More frictionless exchange between these coins and BTC - atomic swaps, etc. - will mean that they won't be held for as long. This is likely to lead to a fall in their price in the longer-term.

If you view these coins as a 'store of value', then you're not going to want to encourage frictionless exchange. That's why - for example - xmr.to will convert your XMR to BTC but not the other way around. Ironically, there's an incentive for holders to make XMR slightly more difficult to get; there's an incentive to limit adoption.

That's the issue GRIN seems to solve. It's inflation is so bad that there's no incentive to hold it unless you think it'll be very widely used. The developers, miners holders and users can all agree that one-click BTC->GRIN->BTC transactions are a good thing. Once they're in place, the other privacy coins are in trouble.

TL;DR: Privacy is good; privacy coins are a terrible investment.

I despise creg white, but he's right about privacy coins. They are no good for the crypto space or society in general. Only shady billionaires, druggies & people who want to sell vids of child rapists will disagree.
Go ahead, call me a jew or whatever idc

>>13964639
Monero isn't a privacy coin it's money.

>>13964639
>The main reason to use privacy coins is to 'wash' BTC.
You are wrong.
You are traveling through parts of a country with a medium to high violent crime rate. You need to use some of your Bitcoin to pay for something. If every person you transact with knows exactly how much money you have, this is a threat to your personal physical safety.

You are a business that receives a payment from a supplier. That supplier will be able to see how much money your business has, and therefore can guess at how price sensitive you are in future negotiations. They can see every single other payment you’ve ever received to that Bitcoin address, and therefore determine what other suppliers you are dealing with and how much you are paying those suppliers. They may be able to roughly determine how many customers you have and how much you charge your customers. This is commercially sensitive information that damages your negotiating position enough to cause you relative financial loss.

You are a private citizen paying for online goods and services. You are aware that it is common practice for companies to attempt to use ‘price discrimination’ algorithms to attempt to determine the highest prices they can offer future services to you at, and you would prefer they do not have the information advantage of knowing how much you spend and where you spend it.

You sell cupcakes and receive Bitcoin as payment. It turns out that someone who owned that Bitcoin before you was involved in criminal activity. Now you are worried that you have become a suspect in a criminal case, because the movement of funds to you is a matter of public record. You are also worried that certain Bitcoins that you thought you owned will be considered ‘tainted’ and that others will refuse to accept them as payment.

>>13964770
Use two wallets, one for paying vendors etc & one for savings.

>>13964770
No U
>You are traveling through parts of a country with a medium to high violent crime rate. You need to use some of your Bitcoin to pay for something. If every person you transact with knows exactly how much money you have, this is a threat to your personal physical safety.
You click 'send'. A BTC->GRIN->BTC transaction generates a BTC address not linked to you from which the vendor is paid.
>You are a business that receives a payment from a supplier. That supplier will be able to see how much money your business has, and therefore can guess at how price sensitive you are in future negotiations. They can see every single other payment you’ve ever received to that Bitcoin address, and therefore determine what other suppliers you are dealing with and how much you are paying those suppliers. They may be able to roughly determine how many customers you have and how much you charge your customers. This is commercially sensitive information that damages your negotiating position enough to cause you relative financial loss.
You click 'send'. A BTC->GRIN->BTC transaction generates a BTC address not linked to you from which the vendor is paid.

>>13964770
>You are a private citizen paying for online goods and services. You are aware that it is common practice for companies to attempt to use ‘price discrimination’ algorithms to attempt to determine the highest prices they can offer future services to you at, and you would prefer they do not have the information advantage of knowing how much you spend and where you spend it.
You click 'send'. A BTC->GRIN->BTC transaction generates a BTC address not linked to you from which the vendor is paid.
>You sell cupcakes and receive Bitcoin as payment. It turns out that someone who owned that Bitcoin before you was involved in criminal activity. Now you are worried that you have become a suspect in a criminal case, because the movement of funds to you is a matter of public record. You are also worried that certain Bitcoins that you thought you owned will be considered ‘tainted’ and that others will refuse to accept them as payment.
You click 'send'. A BTC->GRIN->BTC transaction generates a BTC address not linked to you from which the vendor is paid.

>>13964793
>>13964882
Why hasle with different wallets and grin? Lows.

>>13959717
You are complete retard. As seem so many others. You can not simply "load in some BTC and get it out again LOOL". Your money will be very easy to be traced that way. If the IRS sees you converted 2BTC into Monero and just also happens to convert 2BTC from Monero they will link it. You can start getting creative but you will get fucked either way because the BTC chain records amounts of BTC so they will still be able to link it.

>>13959727
>ZCash is technically better
citation needed

>>13964882
Will not work because the amounts will be the same and can be linked. You really think you are smarter then Monero team with scientists with PHds kid? Pick up a fucking book. Your little fantasy will be crushed by the USA and your sorry ass will have nothing to say about it. You think you're safe? You're fucking dead kiddo.

>>13965119
It isn't a hassle if you can do it with a single click. Why would you go to all the trouble of buying XMR if you can pay anonymously with BTC?

>>13959670
muh pricacy

>>13965179
BTC chainanalyses can be obfuscated. Also, I never said the Monero team aren't smart, just that they're conflicted. They don't want Monero to become a frictionless intermediary for BTC payments because this would affect their holdings. In contrast, GRIN is set-up to become that intermediary.

>>13965124
Put more effort, pls.

>>13964116
Kek.

Stay away from this terrorist coin. Unless you want to end up being tourtured in a high level security prison, buy something else. This coin has zero future and has backdoors all over the code. Very sad actually

If you really want to sock away money without muh-gubmint.jpg knowing about it put cash in your mattress. If you are afraid muh-fiat-will-crash.exe then go to your coin shop & buy silver/gold.
This privacy coin shit is 11/10 on autism scale.

>>13964890
BTC is a shitcoin if that's what you have to do to maintain your privacy.

>>13959670

>>13965880
Bait released by the us gov. Anyone who actually believes this is brain dead

>>13961212
Monero seems to spike in the future but I would rather get rich quicker.

>>13965734
BTC is backed by the most POW and it's the easiest coin to buy. Addition of a one-click privacy option would/will make obligate privacy coins obsolete (unless they're components of the BTC privacy mechanism).

>>13964770
this is more about highlighting how shitting blockchain and public ledgers are for finance.

>>13966080
Buy Safex Token and buy a lambo in 3 years

>>13963362
SAFEX is a scam dont touch that coin.
created by some Serbian mafia
Only hearing safex it makes me vomit, disgusting coin disgusting people so repugnant shit vomit diarrhea std fecal herpes gonorrhea shit.
Safex is diarrhea with worms, touch it and get infected for life, disgusting coin, vomit blood shit
SAFEX = SHIT

>>13965342
>BTC chainanalyses can be obfuscated.
Scrambling addresses does nothing to prevent temporal analysis. GRIN is cool for scaling but the meme that it's a battle tested privacy tool is misguided.
>They don't want Monero to become a frictionless intermediary for BTC payments because this would affect their holdings.
Being an intermediary for Bitcoin has never been an actual goal of Monero. Obviously that's what it can be used for in its current state, but increasing Monero usage will only increase Monero speculation so I don't really follow your claim. Originally Bitcoin was only used to wash fiat cash and look what happened. I don't see how this is any different for Monero.

>>13965552
>>13965948
Comedy gold.

>>13966846
>Scrambling addresses does nothing to prevent temporal analysis
but temporal analysis can be obfuscated
>GRIN is cool for scaling but the meme that it's a battle tested privacy tool is misguided
It's eliptic curve cryptography. Also, its blockchain doesn't store transactions or public keys. If you broke the cryptography, you'd need to have complete records of the mempool as well as the blockchain to deanonymise anything.
>increasing Monero usage will only increase Monero speculation so I don't really follow your claim
If you can buy and sell it without holding it for more than a few minutes then you don't remove much liquidity from the market. It makes it a utility token. Ask xmr.to why they don't introduce BTC->XMR exchange.

>>13959717

baseddd

>>13967344
>Ask xmr.to why they don't introduce BTC->XMR exchange.
Because bitcoin isn't fungible, they've said this. They don't want to deal with crypto-jackers sending them bitcoins that will get flagged at exchanges, getting their accounts closed and involving them in criminal investigations.

>grins blockchain doesn't store transactions
Yeah but the NSA will store all those transactions so you haven't achieved anything but space savings on normal nodes.

>>13967594
With that said I'm surprised BTC coming from xmr.to doesnt get flagged.

>>13967594
>bitcoin isn't fungible
Okay, that makes sense - I stand corrected. Although, if they did both BTC->XMR and XMR->BTC, they wouldn't need to use exchanges so much.
>the NSA will store all those transactions
*solves scaling* (except for the NSA)

>>13962951
grin is shit

>>13965119
I will not waste my time on you.

>>13965228
You buy monero with USD and pay monero and bitcoin addresses with one wallet. No extra fees.

>>13959727
monero is way too hard to use. its a complete joke. you have to download the entire blockchain or you arent truly private. All the security in the world wont help you if no one can use it.

monero is being beaten by Dero for fucks sake. A shitty scamcoin with anonymous devs. Even they have 30 second blocks and a working webwallet.

Buy zcash or get left in the dust.

Zcash and Ycash will ultimately do better. Sorry if this post upsets you

>>13959686
this

it's the only coin actually researching and implementing ASIC resistance. every other coin just kind of gave up on that goal.

>>13967344
>but temporal analysis can be obfuscated
Maybe, maybe not. Analytical tools will become more sophisticated when it comes to breaking optional privacy. This is going to be a constant cat and mouse game in the coming decades. Monero has to keep evolving too.
>you'd need to have complete records of the mempool as well as the blockchain to deanonymise anything.
You don't need to break the cryptography so long as we're talking about temporal analysis. You just have to be able to follow transaction amounts. As long as you're dealing with Bitcoin in any form, this isn't difficult for LE.
>>13968721
Monero has a webwallet and light wallet clients. It's up to you if you want to trust some else's node. The entire point of Monero is that you don't have to trust anyone which is why the GUI defaults to suggesting you run your own node.

>>13964890
stop trying to pump your bags faggot. Mimblewimble is a scam, only an autistic freak would put 1 penny into something called mimblewimble

>>13968890
I don't have any GRIN/Mimblewimble - it's a terrible investment. It'll be good for privacy on BTC though.

>>13968855
>Analytical tools will become more sophisticated when it comes to breaking optional privacy.
I suspect that the plankton will be aided by whales pretending to be plankton

>>13959727
>Zion-cash
dude it's literally a govt coin for catching whales with
avoid zcash seriously

long term moneros tail emmission means it'll continue to be used. i can see btc getting ignored by the next gen cause there's not enuf new coins (we're gonna have 1% of ppl holding most btc)

>>13959670
i like monero but it will go up in flames and banned globally so you won't be able to cash out to fiat (=value to zero).
Monero pisses off law enforcement since already a couple of years, it's inevitable that this will trigger upwards some day to legislate a ban on Monero and other privacy coins. Dont like to say that, but thats how its gonna be.

Another major fault of monero is scalability. They can only do about 1tps even after the bulletproofs update. This is worse than btc and btc is a dinosaur. Moreover lightning network is impossible on monero due to how the privacy works.

you also cant do massive blocks like BSV because everyone has to download the whole network to be private. And if you arent private as a lite wallet, whats the point? just use btc at that point.

No matter what monero will be fucked in the long run due to this.

>>13969292
They can attack fiat gateways (they're already doing it - see Tether). They can also regulate centralized exchanges. However, DEXs, atomic swaps and protocols like Bancor/Kyber can't be shut down. At this point, I don't think they'd ban specific currencies for fear of something else emerging.

>>13969387
You're misunderstanding a lot of things. First of all, Monero has dynamic blocksize. The blocks are as big as they need to be to fit however many transactions the network is trying to process. Monero actually scales really well at the protocol level, it's just that the transactions are way larger due to RingCT. That's where the concerns lie with Monero and scaling, that with increased adoption the blockchain will balloon to an absurd size. With proposed improvements post-Bulletproofs the transaction size may shrink even more, and what was once thought to be an unwieldy blockchain becomes sort of trivial if you want to download it as storage becomes cheaper, Monero continues to improve, and internet download speeds become faster.

Also, it's not that light wallets "aren't private," it's just that if you're not syncing the chain yourself, there's a possibility you're connecting to a compromised node. Obviously the odds of this being the case are basically 0, but you have to start thinking in terms of "Monero-tier paranoia" if you want to understand why the developers give you these options. Fortunately there are a lot of benevolent (we think) Monero nodes out there that you can choose to trust to sync the chain really quickly, it's just not in Monero's nature to say "oh yeah, just do the easy thing bro and it'll be fine."

>>13967344
>GRIN
just read up on grin because of this thread. its emission curve is fucked, get out now or you will be bagholding for over a decade

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RO3zc5AvfN9rcVnrYnLjqCikFLHmD39_7MCV18lDrvc/edit#gid=0

>>13969387
>download the whole network to be private.
This is not true. Light wallets like monerujo dont leak any private details.

>>13970214
do you even know how monero works? the only reason you can even use them as a node is because you give them your view key so they can scan the chain for you. They can see every transaction you have ever made.

>>13970528
You are the one who has no idea how Monero works. A remote node works by sending you all the transactions (in a more compact format) since you last opened the wallet, and you check locally if these transactions belong to you.
The ONLY information a remote node could theoretically get/log is your IP, since you connect to one directly. And even then it could only say "IP xyz sent transaction with hash 123".

>>13970600
And that is only if you SEND the transaction directly through them, not after the fact of course.

MONERO WILL BE 10 000$ IN A YEAR, MY DAD WORKS AT MONERO

>>13968744
>Zcash
>Ycash
>trusted setup
>dev fee
>better
LMAO
Just accept that Monero is the king.
Also, when XMR implements untrusted zk-SNARKS, like fluffypony said recently, it'll will make Zcash or any fork technically useless.

>>13968890
Actually not, MW is a very nice protocol.

>>13970528
lmao average /biz/ intelligence that's why you retards invest in chainlink. he actually thinks being a remote node means you can see everyones transactions. literal sub 80 iq

>>13959670
It's the second most-used currency on the dark web. (behind bytecorn, obviously)

>>13964703
if people can find out your net worth then that is dangerous if you are rich

In this thread there are those who believe XMR will moon and want others to buy it.
And then there are FUDers who believe it will moon but don't want the undeserving to buy that. Keep this in mind please.