/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>13603995
He is cute desu

>>13603995
we'll find out. I submitted a tax extension for 2017 crypto gains with turbo tax. I lowballed my predicted figure to be 30k.

Still haven't paid a dime. Didn't even file for 2018 taxes either. But then again, I've never filed, and the IRS never contacted me. But I'm a NEET/sometimes student, and my name is probably not at the top of the list. YMMV

>>13604082
My understanding is that they can turn around and ass fuck you anytime they want even years down the road if you haven't paid it correctly. I'm afraid of what technology is going to be able to uncover by then too. Its not the wild west anymore with the internet, and the fee + the monthly/annual interest for not paying it could leave you totally broke no matter how much you make

>>13604130
up to 7 years, yeah. I'll either be out of the country, rich enough to pay it off, or dead. No in between desu

>>13604130
also, this was all just numbers on exchange. My portfolio topped at 500k briefly, but less than 40k USD has ever hit my bank account since then. Some of those exchanges have since gone defunct. That information is gone forever.

FUCK THE IRS THEY CAN GO STRAIGHT TO HELL!!

I never sold or sold one coin into another, I just constantly bought. My strategy all along is to cash out after a long time anyways. You guys DO make money on the side right?

>>13603995
YES!

You don't have to pay taxes on it if you don't withdraw it or convert to USD right?

>>13604667
Trading one coin into another is considered a taxable event no?

>>13604631
obviously, but crypto to crypto is a taxable event, and unless youre just buying stuff like BTC there are taxes you probably haven't paid. I'm wondering if anyone here has stories of getting fucked by the IRS or something, because at this point I wouldn't even know where to begin with paying taxes on all this shit

>>13604216
>rich enough to pay it off
based

>>13604667
crypto to crypto is a taxable event

>>13604678
I bought mainly ETH & BTC. I bought a few alts with my BTC that I'm still holding onto today. You're saying I have to pay taxes on buying the alt? its only like 200 bucks worth of shitcoins.

>>13604690
>>13604677
shit, how do you even report that

>>13604003
Nah mate. thats not a man. She might have had a masculine sharp featured looking dad that passed that gene down to her but she is 100% woman.

>>13604663
story?

>>13604711
you don't
:^)

>>13604711
I feel like unless you made big gains on the alt, and then bought back into BTC, that is what they want you to report. The whole tax system regarding crypto is pretty shitty at the moment in my opinon. I bought alts with my BTC and I lost pretty much all that money, am I supposed to pay a tax on those alt coin purchases?

>>13604732
(Hello IRS tax man looking over these logs in the future. These statements are exclusively satire and do not represent an intent to commit tax fraud)

>>13604766
holy dubs

>>13603995
>implying anyone on this board makes any gains

>>13604735
for all i know if you bought bitcoin for lets say 10$ it gains 1$ and you now buy shitcoins for 11$ you have to pay tax on the 1$ profit you made. not a tax guy tho

>>13604735
Yea you are. They want you to report ALL of it, no matter how much you make. There isn't some arbitrary figure like 35k that they start coming after you. And if you do make it in the future, its not unreasonable to assume the IRS is going to take a good hard look at your ass. I've seen people get fucked by the IRS, I'm terrified of them. I just dont want it to happen to me in 2034 because of some useless shit coin trading back in 2019

I filed an extension this year and still haven't paid. Kept my trades to a minimum, but the idea handing it all over to the IRS still gives me anxiety. I hope that in 10 years all of these ridiculous rules will be modernized.

>>13604783
why can't they just a VAT for crypto gains, seems like the market would be too volatile for individual consumers to keep records of their activity

>tfw you had to pay 35k for 2017
>another 9k for 2018
I just want to make money, fuck off and let me buy a new car

no never pay taxes..unless you making big money in the millions

gov don't care about small fish like us so don't be stupid

>>13603995
IRS waits 5+ years before coming because backtaxes have like 15% compounded interest per year

>>13604823
I think the volatility is a good defense against them, but if there is money to be had the IRS is going to go after it even if its difficult. I think most legitimate site keep some kind of records, like I know coinbase does. Its just not worth the risk to me to be the 1 in 10000 they choose to fuck in the ass

only something like 5% of ppl paid taxes last bull run... they haven't done shit to the ppl that haven't paid

>>13604865
you've clearly never been pinched by the IRS.

>>13604915
You seem pretty worried? I only bought at most 3 to 5 hundred bucks of alts.

>>13604875
sorry that’s now how it works bud

>>13604934
I am, and even though I'm normally paranoid I'm surprised people seem so carefree. It seems like a "I'll worry about it later" or "wont happen to me" kind of attitude about it. I wont lose sleep over it but I think about it at least a couple times a week. I guess its just me

>>13603995
I don't understand why the irs wants to tax crypto but then make it ilegitimate.

>>13604631
>bought 1400 eth at ~7 dollars
>start trading 200 ETH of it on exchanges when price hit 120
>divest into lots of shitcoins
>sell when they pump up super crazy
>have capital gains of 70k due to selling peaks
>all shitcoins die the next tax year
>have to pay capital gains on the 70k trading
>can't offset it with selling the shitcoins at a loss due to it being a different tax year

they need to bring back that law where you can average your gains/losses over a 4 year period. They had it in the 80's and it made much more sense.

But yeah, if i had held i would have had more money and no taxes. But I fell for the daytrading shitcoin memes and had to pay heavily on my taxes that year.

>>13604884
>the 95% of tax avoiders get away with it because the US gov has no proof they traded in coins
>the 5% that reported get audited because there is proof they traded shitcoins since it's on their IRS records

calling it now

OP, we circumvent this by opening bank accounts with the UBS

>>13604715
its 2019, women can have feminine benis if they want

Even the idea of paying any taxes on Crypto is so cucked.

And you can always leave USA and abandon its cucked citizenship like Riger Ver did. Paying taxes on crypto makes u traitor of both white race and idea of crypto anarchy.

>>13605533
Paying tax when you cash out from crypto to fiat makes perfect sense.

Paying tax when doing a crypto to crypto trade is faggy wallstreet jew fuckery

>>13605369
Why did u buy on exchange with kyc, retard?
Well maybe that's good that there are such people like you. The more retards will pay taxes, the less governments will tighten laws and hunt ppl with IQ over 70 who dont pay taxes.

>>13605645
How do u burgers pay on crypto to crypto trades? I don't understand it. F.e. u have 100$ in eth, u trade them for btc, but still u have 100$. So for what u have to pay?
Also in extreme case u always can move to another country and abandon US citizenship like Roger Ver did. If u sell all u have in the US, u will be able to live life of the upper class in Southeast Asia, Latin America or Eastern Europe solely due to cost of living differences.

>>13605645
And even if u buy on exchange with kyc like cuckbase, cant u just send coins to another wallet and tell the IRS u sent them to another person?

>>13605661
I was dumb and thought crypto was like-in-kind exchange, and wasn't taxed.
Read up on it later, and realized I got fucked.

>>13605773
There's some fuckery around, where when you use coinbase's "tax estimate service" they assume all outgoing transactions from coinbase were "sales" to other people, meaning that sending coins to an exchange is considered a taxable event to them

>>13605798
So just send coins right after u bought them. They cant tax u if u had no gains, right?

>>13604735
>I feel like
the irs doesn’t care how you feel

>>13605836
true
for the longer holders it fucks them though, because if you move to your own private wallet off of coinbase, they consider that a sale even though you still own the coins and didn't make any money off it, but they still want their tax cut

>>13604082
You're at the top of the list, the more broke you are, the more power they have over you. Billionaires get away with tax fuckers for years because who's going to stop them?

>>13605930
Well seems pretty fair for me, its natural selection, because only very dumb person or complete noob in crypto will hold coins on jewbase.

>>13605987
What were easier ways to buy 3000$ worth of ETH back in January of 2017?

>>13606053
U could buy on jewbase and send to your wallet fast.

Can someone please explain the following to me--I am retard:

I buy btc with fiat. I buy a car on craigslist with the btc. I don't have to pay capital gains now?

It can't be this simple. I feel like I'm missing something.

>>13606197
only if BTC gained or lost value during that time.

If it lost value, you don't owe taxes on the exchange.

If it gained in value, you owe taxes in the amount it gained from when you bought it.

what if you bought shitcoins and lost money, do you still owe somehow or are you just obligated to report losses? Can they fuck you for just not reporting losses?

Only ever bought coins locally for cash. My biggest fear is if I ever try to cash out some day they will seize fiat. Another concern is I have no fucking clue where the coins I bought came from, they could easily seize funds based on tracing those coins back to silk road or some sketchy shit.

>>13606435
if you bought and lost money, that's a capital gains loss. you can write off 3k in capital gains loss in your taxes every year.

If you don't report losses you get taxed more, so they don't give a fuck if you don't report your losses; more money for them.

>>13603995
For reference, these are the benchmark rates. Not sure about 2018 figures.

>>13604711
Use a site like bitcoin.tax, most exchanges let you export your trades as a csv file, which you can just upload to a site that calculates stuff for you.

>>13603995
no one gives a shit unless you got the big stacks and/or some sort of public figure

its all about sending messages and raking in actual money,

if none of these things can be checkmarked youre not worth a damn

>>13604082
you should always file since the statue of limitations lets you off the hook after seven years but its a lifetime if you dont file

not me but fake toshi looks like he's getting pumped in the ass good, probably from false testimony though

>not believing in financial revolution and still thinking of cashing out
Never gonna make it

>>13606625
So if you lose 300k how the fuck do you write that much off? Are you cucked into paying a 300k tax bill you can’t afford?

>>13605284
they want to eat their cake and have it too

>>13606643
good to know. thanks

gains?

>>13606668
Stop shilling your shitty jewish spyware service thanks

>>13604735
When I make a trade for a loss I fucking hope those control freaks wants a piece of that pie aswell
Or is it only when it's going good for me? FUCK I HATE TAXES

>>13604238
most people have lost trading history due shitcoin exchangers constantly disappearing yet they want all of your tradings including between cryptos


its fucking insanity

just hold 20+BTC and retire a billionaire in 10 years somewhere

>>13603995
Cryptocurrency is considered property, not money. That is the law. They aren't really asking for much. What the IRS wants is just a form saying how much you originally paid for the crypto and how much you sold it for. It's the same thing as buying a house or an old painting and then realizing a gain on it.

They owe me money after last year

>>13604883
yeah but what if the exchanges are dead and you didnt save csv files because when you woke up it was all gone

what about stuff like POSW that rebranded into XSN etc

what about hardforks

what about "giveaway" coins like byteball

they are fucking nuts if they expect accurate and complete records

hodl for 10 years and move a billionaire elsewere

>>13609170
this is incorrect information, each trade is a taxable event, report it how you want though and deal with the taxman later

>>13606668
I heard that stuff doesn't work for a lot of people with margin trades.

Who bothers reporting? Nobody.

>>13609865
I got completely fucked over for using a bot and owed more in taxes that what I made.

>>13609976
I could've used this ID for good...

>>13603995
You cant be fucked if you dont pull out. You can buy almost everything with crypto. Theres literally no need to pull out

>>13605727
>>13606300
First in first out
So you buy 2 BTC for $100
You buy 2 more for $120
You buy 1 more for $130 and immediately trade it for ethereum
You now owe taxes on $30 short term capital gains even though the value didnt change from when you bought that last bitcoin and immediately traded it for ethereum

So many brainlets are in for a rude awakening.
Everyone should just use one of the services like bitcoin.tax, cointracking.info, token tax, etc
It does all the work for you

>>13610028
>You cant be fucked if you dont pull out. You can buy almost everything with crypto.
Thats a taxable event and you can be fucked

>>13610037
trading bitcoins for bitcoins isn't taxable, unless the owner of said bitcoin imposes their own tax laws. Once you use fiat to trade, you are under the fiat laws and have to pay income/capital gains tax based on the return.

>>13603995
No
>>13604130
Daily compounding interest
>>13609170
They want it itemized for everything. Even stocks these days. Tax calculated on every taxable event individually and then summed at the end.
You see this actually is doing it like you said. You just can't roll 100 transactions into one big p/l. Nor can you get away with a like-kind defense. IRS wants to see how you arrived at your cost basis
>>13610057
Crypto:crypto trades are taxable. Say you sell btc for eth. Taxable. New rule with bloompft tax bill.
Exceptions: 1. the same coin was repurchased within a certain time I think it's 3 days. E.g. buy 1 btc, sell, buy it again immediately after. No tax liability

>>13605412
Coonbaae stores all transactions and knows your info

>>13610057
Read it again
I said
>You buy 1 more for $130 and immediately trade it for ethereum
>You now owe taxes on $30 short term capital gains

>>13610098
>New rule with bloompft tax bill
Its not new. The IRS clarified that like-kind only applies to real property which anyone would have already known if they read the law. They are very strict about like kind exchange.
>Exceptions: 1. the same coin was repurchased within a certain time I think it's 3 days. E.g. buy 1 btc, sell, buy it again immediately after. No tax liability
I call BS on that. Every account Ive spoken to has said to use FIFO. Yes you can use LIFO if you stick with it. So please provide a credible source.

>>13610168
2017 and prior is like like transactions

>>13610098
Fuck all that shit. Canary Islands.

>>13610046
And the taxes will be paid for because its included with the purchase.

>>13610227
False
Talk to an expert and youll find our your wrong
The rules for like kind exchange are strict and crypto does not apply, and never did
You could have fraudulently file your taxes before 2017 and hope to not get audited within 7 years but that doesnt mean it applies
The will be people fighting court battles over that
And if you filed your taxes that way youd have to have filled out form 8824 with every single trade you made

>>13610284
Im not talking about sales tax
When you buy something with crypto you also need to pay capital gains tax as if you sold that crypto for fiat

Im done posting in this thread
There are plenty of sites that will do the work for you
Theyre cheap
Some of you should consult a CPA that specialized in crypto

Just ask Bill Cooper how it worked out for him

yes goyim report everything and yes crypto to crypto is taxable even if it makes literally 0 sense in the future once it gets traction

>>13603995
imagine the smell

>>13610324
Bye

>>13610318
Too bad, that's what 2a is for.

>>13609152
Fact: There is no such thing as the "Info" disappearing. There is a RECORD SOMEWHERE -> ie: Facebook, NSA, Google. etc. I'm not saying they will get you, just pointing out an absolute FACT, that if they want your records.... they are there. If you believe differently.... your a retard.

They don't accept crypto as payment so they have no right to tax me on it. Fuck them, don't even know where to start. Who the fuck is autistic enough to track trades in usd, grams of oatmeal, and wampum? I track my btc trades in BTC and eth trades in eth. It's impossible to put a usd price on it because the dollar fluctuates so much compared to them. If they force me to guess I'll just say I lost a trillion dollars, carry over the max losses for the rest of my life. Kind of a jokes en you move, but they are asking for it.

>>13605955
>the more power they have over you.

In crypto nobody really has power over you. At any moment I can destroy my coins. Push too hard and nobody gets anything anyway.

>>13604711
You do crypto to crypto in secret via tor and then pretend it was one crypto all along when you convert to usd

Anybody too stupid to not cash out through Monero deserves to get taxed to death.

>>13610733
Hypothetically, couldn't you dump all your money into Monero, call your investment 100% loss due to order book fuckery, then transfer that back to yourself under the gift clause?

Burden of proof being on the state, it would be almost impossible to prove otherwise.

>>13610900
Nah, just sell the Monero for cash. No reason to do a bunch of weird shit, plans with the most moving parts are the first to break down.

>>13610977
Like buy fiat? How would you even do that? And if you could, how are you going to do that with a $50k+ portfolio?

>>13610992
Local Monero, we do this shit all the time. Taxes are what the little people pay. Drug dealers on onion sites launder millions of dollars like this with impunity. Your tiny portfolio is nothing.

>>13611075
But what if we want money? Cash is worthless in amounts over 10k or so.

>>13610046
>>13610313
>>13610324
>>13610168
imagine being this delusional fag. Literally just making shit up. Probably a BOBO

>paying taxes
I never really paid taxes on anything, beside VAT. I don't know what you are all doing or what Nigger bling bling and penis extensions you are buying, but I'm in crypto since 2012, still officially having the same cheap three room apartment, working a half time job below the taxable income and only cash out indirectly when some unexpected costs come up. Well okay, bought a new PC with crypto, but after 7 years it was necessary to upgrade.

Do I need to pay taxes from when I was a dream market vendor?

>>13603995

>trying to hide that huge forehead

>>13612052
As long as they don't catch you, no. and if they do, I hope for you, that you used multiple identities which can't be related, so you just have to repay taxes on one vendor name

>>13606625
>>13607455
BUMP Do you really pay for losses?

>>13612140
I FUCKING SAID BUMP

>Crypto to crypto is a taxable event
>Such a shit tier trader I've lost on almost all of them
>Government must now give me back money for being a retard
Yay, more link money.

>>13612052
"Hi I sold drugs on darknet, here's my tax declaration"

>>13610028

how do i buy vegetables?

Are the laws different in the UK from the US? I have no idea how capital gains tax works

>>13604865
Laughably untrue. Ask any tax attorney who the bulk of their customers is - it's mostly people who owe a couple grand for a year or two they didn't file. They pay their rent off customers like that.

Another bullshit tax thread by people who don't have a clue. What is an accountant..

>>13604130
interest maxes out at 25%

>>13612868
Any profit made from certain asset classes that are not liquid is considered capital gains, i.e. income from an investment and not from work. This is taxed at lower rates than the same amount of income tax, and at different rates depending on if it's a short-term gain (realized gain w/n 1 year) or long-term gain (held asset for more than 1 year and realized gain).

In addition, if your annual earnings are low enough you do not pay any capital gains tax; I believe post-2018 TRUMP REFORM it's 15% starting at $39,000 annual.

>>13610382
include the forks, dead exchanges, lost trade information, payments in btc... boomers are fucking autistic

>>13611075
Whats the point of having a ton of cash? you cannot buy nice houses or cars, you will get caught.

I think most people want to do things legally, problem being, it's literally impossible that you have all of the info due forks, giveaway shitcoins like byteball, payments in bitcointalk, mining shitcoins that dont even exist, loss of trades due dead exchanges, how the fuck are you supposed to report everything.

German Cuck here, if i hold any crypto for over a year its tax free

#LinkColdWallets

>Burgers pay taxes on crypto

Kek, the whole point of crypto is to say fuck you to governments and banks.

And yes, my networth is all crypto, never paid and never pay a dime in taxes

>>13613232
>What is an accountant..
a boomer that has no idea about bitcoin let alone shitcoins, forks etc

If you're paying taxes you're doing it wrong.

Been holding since 2017, since I made some "profit" on like trades I had to pay a couple hundred dollars.
Since I haven't traded after I have no tax to pay. When I cash out in the future I will pay tax.

>>13604774

This. It's only taxable if you made gains so biz doesn't need to worry.

>>13614478
wrong