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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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13265541 No.13265541 [Reply] [Original]

We've had this debate for years, and it's cropping up again. I think we need to nip this in the bud now.

If you increase the blocksize then you will decrease fees, thus making it easier for Veriblock and Coinbase to spam the network and never bother to optimise their platforms. When VeriBlock temporarily paused their system, confirmed on-chain transactions dropped from ~325,000/day to ~225,000/day. That should give you a sense as to just how much spam is being caused by low fees.

If we go to 2MB, those companies will fill blocks up again. Fees will rise to the exact same level in a short period. Now you've got the same situation as before, except a whole lot of full node operators can't keep up with the bandwidth so turn their nodes off. Blocks will propagate through the network slower, centralising mining and providing an unfair advantage to the previous block winner.

The final point, which really should shut this whole discussion down, is that we've already been through this. Bcash exists. It had the same code base as bitcoin at the time of the split. If that's how you think Bitcoin should operate, then just use bcash and be done with it. LN can be built on top of bcash, it's just barely anyone wants to develop for it because overwhelmingly technical people understand why raising the blocksize is a bad idea.

If you're right, bcash will overtake Bitcoin and you can tell everyone I told you so. But you're not going to convince us to change the block size.

And for the love of Christ, if you're a non-technical investor, maybe consider a little humility before insulting the Core devs and demanding a solution you know nothing about to a problem which doesn't exist.

>> No.13265558
File: 100 KB, 900x905, 1554641844514.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13265558

>>13265541
buy my bags goy

>> No.13265560

bitcoin is old tec and should be forgotten, like we don't play ps 1 anymore either

>> No.13265569

>>13265541
Bitcoin is a failed project
Screencap this

>> No.13265593

>>13265541
Based and corepilled

>> No.13265604

>>13265541
>I think we need to nip this in the bud now.
why do you think this board has any say on how it runs

>> No.13265613

>>13265541
I was just having this discussion with my friend. Txn fees should be high. Street shitters should not be using digital gold onchain. They can use LN or something like xDAI. Bitcoin is a permissionless, immutable ledger and $20 txn fees are not absurd to utilize such technology.

>> No.13265667

>>13265613
>txs fees should be high
Yep. Stopped reading

>> No.13265703

>>13265667
Go use Nano you autistic street shitting faggot. Bitcoin is and will always be for rich white men and chinks.

>> No.13265718

>>13265703
good
we got that out of the way
collect your tokens and fuck off
meanwhile we need a currency

>> No.13265735

>>13265718
xDai already did that.

>> No.13265748
File: 119 KB, 1368x912, naypyitaw-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13265748

>>13265718
that's what BCH is for

>> No.13265753

>>13265541
Mining cartel lost it's power when they forked. Also segwit activation proved that you don't need miners approval to push updates that causes profit loss for miners.

Now that devs and community know that, next step is completely eliminating miners(through PoS or something else). Then once we get rid of leeches, we can talk about scaling.

>> No.13265756

>>13265735
piss off pajeet
I have never heard of that
even the shitiest shitcoin is better than BTC

>> No.13265770

>>13265748
looks comfy as fuck

>> No.13265771

>>13265756
>never heard of xDai
>shits on papa bitcoin
>thinks he has the authority to declare anyone else a pajeet

>> No.13265798

>>13265541
Op is based for blessing this undeserving shithole of a board with his reminder

>> No.13266006
File: 262 KB, 500x625, 1554615884666.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13266006

>>13265558
This
BlockTheStream idiots BTFO
BSV is Bitcoin

>> No.13266023

Yes absolutely. Fees need to rise to the point where Coinbase and Veriblock start losing money and are forced to optimise. Fees need to rise to the point where people are actually forced to use LN or trusted services, instead of using the most ridiculously secure and over the top network to send $50.

>> No.13266047

>>13266023
Someone on Twitter said LN will fail if fees are too high. Is that true?

>> No.13266081

>>13266047
High fees are good so that we can keep the use to a minimum and the blockchain desentralized

>> No.13266178

>>13265756
big fucking yikes

>> No.13266507

>>13265541
This is actually quite a high-IQ post.

>> No.13266599

>>13266507
The actual beef is that devs were not happy about Blockstream's control over the BTC protocol and switched over to the BCH camp. BCH has some very competant devs who left BTC after their improvement proposals got shut down by a small group of hardheaded Blockstream execs. Everything else is just normie propaganda.

>> No.13266623

>>13265541
>transactions are spam

Imagine being an unironic blockstream shill

>> No.13266640

>>13265613
>Txn fees should be high.
literally end your life.

>> No.13266663

>>13265753
>defending non miner voting rights
>defending pos

The absolute state

>> No.13266664

>>13266623
Stick with Sir-toshi's Vision Hanjit, I'm sure his blocks have space for your 1000 sat transactions

>> No.13266682

>>13265756
you hold shitcoins and you hold them on binance, don't you

>> No.13266685

>>13266023
Agreed. Only banks should use the blockchain. Everyone else can just use IOUs they issue on LN. its a no brainer!

>> No.13266700

>>13266664
I'm not sure what's worse. People who believe LN will work or people who believe Craig is Satoshi without proof.

>> No.13266704

>>13265541
I actually agree with you, btc is a short term hold. It will serve its use as a gateway drug. I see it dead in 5-10 years.

>> No.13266709

>>13266704
Yep. The only way to survive would be by switching to PoS.

>> No.13266710

>>13266685
Like I said, BTC is for richfags, not street shitters.

>> No.13266788

>>13266710
BTC is for trading on exchanges and nothing else. If you unironically spend this shit you're a fucking retard.

I made a $20 purchase the other day. I used BCH. If I used BTC I'd be paying about a 10% fee or $2. This will only get worse as the price raises. Long term this ship is fucking sunk. In the meantime its the primary trading pair on exchanges. That's the only reason I hold it still and I never move it unless its $1000+.

>> No.13267067

>>13265541
> LN can be built on top of bcash

Strictly true but would require a mayor reimplementation and it would be more painful and maybe worse. LN uses segwit to get immutable txids.

Att. Programmer interested about LN technicals

>> No.13267135

>>13266788
Not sure what you're arguing at this point. You just said yourself that BCash is for retail transactions and Bitcoin is for moving sums of $1k+. Sounds like we're in agreement on that.

The hashrate protecting BTC is orders of magnitude greater than BCH, thus the scale of money moved on it should also be several orders of magnitude greater. BTC will not die, it won the hashwar just like ETH won against ETC. Game over.

>> No.13267158

>>13265541

People with brains posting on /biz/???? What is going on?????

>> No.13267271
File: 76 KB, 910x422, btc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13267271

>>13267135
Game has just started. If BTC's solution to scaling is to tell people not to use the network, well we will see how well that helps with adoption.

>> No.13267399

Small blocks are literally communism.

Fooled again by the almighty "leaders" (Core devs).

Enjoy going broke eventually (aka starvation under communism).

>> No.13267441

>>13266599
This is actually a very low-IQ post

>> No.13267454

>>13265770
china ghost cities. my dream.

>> No.13267491

>>13265541
>node subsidies
>block limits
>malleability fix
>Non Pow consensus (UASF)
>Substituting off chain for on chain (lightning network, LBtc)
>censorship and mass downvoting of dissenting opinions on r/bitcoin

Blockstream


>node subsidies
>block limits
>malleability fix
>Non Pow consensus (arbitrary, centralized block validation every 10 blocks, avalanche)
>Substituting off chain for on chain (Wormhole Cash)
>censorship and mass downvoting if dissenting opinions on r/BTC
ABC another blockstream company

>> No.13267553

>>13265541

I love when people post about bitcoin scaling. All of the brainlet shitcoiners come out of the woodwork it’s tasty as fuck

>> No.13267574

>>13265541
Block size increase means more active users means higher potential value for the network means higher price per coin. Prove me wrong.

>> No.13267582

>>13267271
If you think dust and crypto cats and veriblock should be free and useable on a decentralized consensus network youre going to have a hard
It's not a matter of feels and opinions it's math
High amount tx, consolidating LN channels, writing results of several processes to the ledger for a fee to ensure that ledger remains distributed secure and true is how this is going to work
It's math it's what makes sense 75% of you idiots don't get it

>> No.13267605

>>13267574

Block size increase means more centralized network means less people will trust the network means less users will value the network. Prove me wrong.

>> No.13267613

>>13267441
My friend works in the BCH sphere and that is exactly what happened behind closed doors.

>> No.13267622

>>13267553
There was one cashie on here who I asked if they think of any disadvantages of bigger blocks and his answer was 'no, there are none'. Anyone with even half a brain would at least consider things like bandwidth, latency and centralization. That's how you know you're dealing with an absolute brainlet whose emotionally invested in his shitcoin.

>> No.13267628

>>13267582
Clever application of data structures can, and will, allow other chains to welcome the use cases that bitcoin considers spam.
Sharing security with hundreds of sister chains through veriblock is not spam. Securing assets like crypto kitties or homes is not spam.
These are use cases that are being turned away. Bitcoin is getting good at that.

>> No.13267636

>>13267622

Yup.. It aint hard to spot.. you a good guy fren

>> No.13267720

>>13265541
Bitcoin was a failure the literal moment Satoshi died (most likely killed)

>> No.13267741

>>13267628
>comparing a cryptocat transaction to a house

>> No.13267754

>>13267741
Where the fuck do you think this is headed? Going to secure assets immutably and then not use it for the biggest source of dispute and wealth in the world?
Literal wars could be avoided if we had consensus on ownership.

>> No.13267840

>>13265541
This is why the comment line should be removed instead. Prevent the spam by taking away the very possibility. Now blocksize can be increased as desired to keep up with inevitably increasing use (which is inevitable even if using btc only as a value store)

>> No.13267889

>Roger ver said bitcoin is killing babies

>> No.13267898

>>13267754
Not really. Ownership could still be given away by the owner under duress which is basically what war is.

>> No.13267938

>>13267898
Not without the truth being present for all to verify.

>> No.13267994

>>13267938
>for all to verify

>> No.13268010

>>13265541
ETH Maximalist here. Current plans are to buy more Bitcoin. Not from fees. But brand. If crypto gains mass appeal again, people will be buying something with a name they already know. I believe that ETH is superior tech-wise but I also know how irrational people are. I expect at least an 8x for BTC from here if there's another rally in the coming years.

>> No.13268044

>>13267938
War doesn't fucking care about the truth, only the strongest.

>> No.13268304

>>13268044
Strength doesn't matter in the post-truth age. Only propaganda.

>> No.13268317

>>13268304
>he really believes this
Propaganda only works for the countries who have atom bombs frendo