/biz/ - Business & Finance

Bitcoin is like a fully enforced patent on concrete

Many bitcoin developers are OGs such as Adam Back who wrote hashcash in 2002
Satoshi cited him in the white paper
He also is broadcasting the bitcoin network from several satellites and strengthening the network worldwide

They're the only coin to reject a centralized attempt to change protocol in the NYA saga
A group of miners and service providers decided behind closed doors to raise the block size
Most developers and no users were invited to attend

This led to a very popular community movement called the UASF (user activated softfork)
The users rejected the closed door plan to raise block size and change what developers had commit access

The movement was so overwhelming that even with 95% of miners and service providers S2X failed to gain consensus and bitcoin's distributed model passed its first major test

Bitmain coinbase bitpay Roger ver and many more selfish actors are still butthurt about this

The pineapple fund
The greatest bitcoin philanthropist to date donated 5,000 BTC totaling around 80 million dollars to various charities during the 2017 bull run
This included a 5 million dollar donation to MAPS to fund the stage 3 studies for pharmaceutical MDMA to treat autism and PTSD
https://pineapplefund.org

>>12489151
Bitcoin is for faggots and boomers

>>12489341
Read the title
Bitcoin maximalists only

>>12489405
You're proving my point

>>12489341

alts are for normies and latecomers

Who can forget our holiday on May 22nd?
Bitcoin pizza day!
In 4 months it will mark the 9 year anniversary of the 1st time bitcoin was used to purchase goods
10,000BTC for 2 large pizzas
Today that would be $37,000,000! Wow

Why would anyone be a Bitcoin maximalist and not invest into other digital assets?
There is still lots of potential for x100 altcoins

Remember when one of bitcoin's top developers was paid by the CIA?
https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=6652.0
Then in the next couple years went off the wall and did everything he could to destroy the project until he was removed.

In November 2016 Andresen stated that the Australian programmer and entrepreneur Craig Wright was the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but later expressed regret getting involved in the “'who was Satoshi' game."

As of June 2017, he has not contributed to Bitcoin Core since February 2016. His commit access on GitHub was revoked in May 2016.

>>12489447
There isn't.
99% of those alts are scams
They heavily favored the development team with premine
Their consensus game theory isn't sound
Their security is low
Their business models aren't sound

The more research you do, the more you'll realize bitcoin is the most advanced blockchain by far
As time goes on and bitcoin integrates the processes of the .1% of alts that are successful you'll see it's bitcoin that's the only programmable money that matters
All these random tokens create unnecessary friction while most are outright scams

>>12489515
this. i think to many chefs in the kitchen ruin the meal

One of the greatest things about bitcoin is the message. The developers contribute for free and the speakers spread the message around the world many who do it for free.

In the case of Andreas antonopoulos, he went into debt traveling the world spreading the word. He released free books spoke at free lectures. In 2017 Roger Ver shamed him for not greedily acquiring coins while he was working free instead. This prompted the bitcoin community to donate over 1.5 million dollars for him to continue his work
https://qz.com/1151233/andreas-antonopoulos-got-1-5-million-in-bitcoin-donations-after-roger-ver-bitshamed-him/

It didn't take long for bitcoin to make a difference in the world
In fact, in 2010 wikileaks was deplatformed (like what's happening to many people today)
Wikileaks decided to accept bitcoin
Julian even credits bitcoin for them being able to stay operational

"My deepest thanks to the US government, Senator McCain and Senator Lieberman for pushing Visa, MasterCard, Payal, AmEx, Mooneybookers, et al, into erecting an illegal banking blockade against @WikiLeaks starting in 2010. It caused us to invest in Bitcoin -- with > 50000% return."

Imagine the impact wikileaks has made since 2010, especially in the most recent presidential election

But playing with fire comes at a cost. Satoshi knew the consequences of poking the hornets nest, and left the project forever just 2 days after the announcement

Really think hard if your project can make a difference with a public figurehead

>>12489726

There’s a lot of fags in crypto but Andreas is a good guy

>>12489151
Bitcoin is also impossible to scale to a number of transactions & transaction speed where it would actually be practical as a global currency. You'll never be able to buy milk with it.

>>12489151
>has the fairest distribution of all coins
>has the best security and proven track record
>nobody can replicate what bitcoin did anymore or will get 51% attacked. BTC survived and gained security since the early days as nobody fully understood importance of crypto at that time to ruin it
>cannot be censored or controlled by governments
>most talented engineers are working on it

In July of 2017 Janet Yellen was speaking during the first round of the Fed's semiannual monetary policy report to Congress and the state of the economy

As the FED chair spoke strongly against an audit
One autist in the back told the world plan B

>>12489903
Everybody read this

>>12489898
>You'll never be able to buy milk with it.
I can buy milk with it right now
It isn't frictionless quite yet but the framework is there
What's most important are the fundamentals which are sound
The rest will fall into place in time
Our developers are working tirelessly for free

>>12489903
BTC has been hacked on protocol level, as opposed to ETH.
ETH has thousands of insanely autistic geniuses working on it for free.
Consensys literally pours millions of their own money into develoment
BTC has little to no use case as opposed to ETH.
lightning network is shit
Etc, etc.

>>12490032
This is a bitcoin maximalist thread but my rebuttal is
72,000,000 ETH tokens were premined the bitcoin paid for 60m were given to ETH devs and an additional 12m tokens were given to the devs, this isn't free work it's a scam
ETH does not have a decentralized consensus, barely anyone can sync a validating node, miners control the gas throughout, devs arbitrarily fork and rollback the chain
Autistic genius so smart they lose 100s of millions in parity multisig bugs or scam 100s of millions in ICOs containing 0 substance or usecases

Leave my thread you've been btfo and contribute nothing

it has the highest cost to attack and widest adoption

>>12490110
yep this is a key characteristic of Bitcoin

This is a picture of the current status of LN
We are seeing incredibly growth and development
In the dev mailing list several people sometimes every day are discussing the latest developments in LN such as AMP (atomic multi-path payments) this allows transactions to split among several channels and puts the "high capacity banker node" conspiracy to rest, also eltoo and watchtowers are discussed and being developed currently.
These upgrades greatly improve the network, and this is only the beginning.

Everything besides Kang Shitcoin is a fraud

I love Bitcoin because it's transparent, completely. I don't care about privacy as no one else in the world should care about privacy. Government is good and they should be completely able to track all our transactions. The private institutions are completely going to accept and adopt Bitcoin making their own financials extremely transparent to any competitor who wants to see how things go. Chain analysis is a meme. Bitcoin doesn't have any privacy problems for the common user. Governments have to use Bitcoin because it's transparent so the people can track how the money is spent. But people too need to be super transparent. I can't accept people just buying things they like and don't want to show to the rest of the world.

war is peace.
freedom is slavery.
ignorance is strength.

If you want to be involved from the ground up in a special purpose vehicle DAO with the sole purpose of controlling a cayman company controlling various shell companies that raise money for low hanging fruit infrastructure projects, car parks, student accommodation etc. through issuing security tokens under SEC regulation D, then please join discord dot gg/tdTC5JF it’s an open DAO forum to create a dividend paying commercial enterprise..

>>12489893
Andreas is one of the biggest fags there is.

>>12490771
so you're against the privacy improvements wasabi wallet and LN incorporates
cringe and blue pilled
>>12490780
oh yea a DAO that worked out great for ETH go shill in one of their threads

>>12489831
That hornets nest will be kicked for decades to come and anyone who realizes the consequences isn't eager to slap their name anywhere as a leader.

>>12489151
Bitcoin is Plan B. Zyklon B. I will never ever ever sell my BTC to (((them))). Id rather ride to zero than do that.

CHX new BTC?!?!?!?

>>12490802
fortunately smarter people already found a way to track coins that go through mixing or tumbling, and wasabi doesn't use a very different technique. they also don't improve privacy because only the 10 people using it make part of their own pool of coin joins so the rest of the world fortunately is completely transparent (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1709.02489.pdf).).

LN improves in privacy in the way that it adds another step. instead of simply listening for the blockchain the chain analysis companies will start listening to the LN nodes out there.

first layer will always be transparent so I'm really happy with it because I'm a Bitcoin Maximalist and "fungibility" is completely retarded. people should just stop using money for bad and illegal things and then there would be no reason for tainted coins to exist.

I'm so happy so happy that I'm a Bitcoin Maximalist, everything else is pure scam and my coin is PERFECT!!! ^____^

>>12489467
>https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=6652.0

The CIA is such a malicious organisation. How can anyone employed by them truly think they are anything but the cronies of the existing elite?

>everybody ITT can only come up with reasons why they like the brand and not why the fundamentals are solid
BTC sucks as a stable store of value and it sucks as a fast, fluid and cheap currency. Never mind the mining infrastructure and energy costs to support what will ultimately be the Netscape of crypto.

The only future for BTC, if it has one at all, is as a store of value.

>>12490847
>the chain analysis companies will start listening to the LN nodes out there
oh yeah just listen to these onion routed transactions bouncing through nodes that aren't even public

>>12490884
It's really not that important, faggot. I'm extremely happy that the base layer is transparent. Good luck trying to hide from our beloved overlords. And if you think that only by using Tor you're "safe" then you probably never ever used Tor in your life.
Anyway, I hope Tor goes to hell because NO ONE needs privacy! TRANSPARENCY IS THE KEY! ONLY BITCOIN WILL SURVIVE!
The rest is shit and we all know it. Fucking scams.

Fair launch? No dev tax? G T F O!
Only Bitcoin! <3333

>>12490856
>BTC sucks as a stable store of value
>The only future for BTC, if it has one at all, is as a store of value
contradicting yourself in the same post
>Never mind the mining infrastructure and energy costs to support what will ultimately be the Netscape of crypto.
doesn't understand PoW security or how the most efficient miners and cheapest electricity (most times renewable) is used

>>12490909
you don't understand or contribute anything to this thread

>>12490922
If you can't understand my criticism of Bitcoin for the lack of privacy and fungibility then God help you.

>>12490934
I addressed your criticism and you made up some bullshit and got called out

>>12489898
You can recognize NPCs by their obsession to think in 1's and 0's or absolutes.

>>12490950
Go on, what did I make up? Let's have a civil conversation. I already sent the technical paper from BlockSci in analyzing CoinJoin transactions which is pretty much what all Tumblers do. Hm, what else? Lightning nodes running via Tor? Oh babe, you think this is what brings fungibility to Bitcoin? Are you sure you want to run this argument?

See, I have no problem with Bitcoin. I actually like it because there are multiple use cases for a transparent blockchain, but to think that "only Bitcoin works" and to even label yourselves as "Bitcoin Maximalists" just show how naive and unsophisticated you are. But hey, let's do it. Let's discuss.

>>12490950
Sounds like lightning network coin is fungible... Maybe. That still leaves bitcoin as a completely transparent permanent record of tx histories of varying purity. As a Bitcoin maximalist this concerns me since the point of lightning network is that you settle to base bitcoin. Also I heard the lightning network paper recommended 130mb blocks so everyone can open and close their channels. I'd be very concerned holding lightning coins that I literally can't cash out.

>>12490909
>It's really not that important, faggot
>Let's have a civil conversation
you're just derailing the thread go be sophisticated somewhere else

>>12491046
> Also I heard the lightning network paper recommended 130mb blocks so everyone can open and close their channels
maybe at some point in the future, but when we think into the future there are improvements coming such as eltoo
eltoo is a proposed softfork that'll allow improvements in LN as well as schnorr signatures on chain
so it'll be extremely unlikely that a 130mb block will ever be needed
by the time that adoption happens there will be several improvements in writing data to the main chain

>>12491049
The argument that "Lightning Network nodes running through Tor solves privacy" is so weak, so weak that really doesn't deserve an answer. But since you stated that and you actually believe that to be truth, can you please share me one piece of technical article that proves mathematically that Lightning Network nodes running via Tor will solve the privacy issues and fungibility of Bitcoin?

>>12491046
LN Coins ≠ Bitcoin. The settlement layer is transparent and rest assured that the main reason government regulation is not being destructive on Bitcoin is because they understood it can be easily traceable.

And if you think this is all a meme, well, maybe a few videos from 2017 can enlighten you the massive power of metadata collecting from the Bitcoin blockchain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLzw11ItMw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6QQqIpQ1As

>>12491046
https://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/a20a865ce40d40c8f942cf206a7cba96/Scalable_Funding_Of_Blockchain_Micropayment_Networks%20(1).pdf
https://blockstream.com/2018/04/30/eltoo-next-lightning/

Lightning Network uses onion routing so it is much more private than an on-chain transaction, especially if you have a private node with private channels. All outsiders would know is how much you payed all the people you have a direct channel with, but not where that money ended up in the end. It basically has the same vulnerabilities that TOR has, if there are a lot of nodes out there that are controlled by a single party you can be watched. However that would cost a lot of money. So in conclusion yes it greatly enhances privacy.
it significantly enhances privacy but it is nowhere close to rely on that in serious scenarios. Privacy depends on trust in nodes your transaction is routed through. Although you only need to trust some nodes, not all nodes along the way.

The thing is, the biggest nodes will be provided by regulated entities and spying companies like chainalysis or elliptic. These companies will eventually cooperate on analysis. So you may fail to route through a single non-logging LN node. Then you are back to plain Bitcoin, privacy wise.

>>12491112
That's null and void, governments have big funding to spy on our benis

So yes, you can be a Bitcoin Maximalist if you want, but you also have to embrace its limitations on privacy and the holes it has for financial surveillance. As I previously said, there are many use cases for that, but to state that this is a "non problem" or something that I'm "making up" then you're just being naive.

Even Andreas Antonopoulos in multiple videos already said that Bitcoin has to implement privacy in the base layer, otherwise it will not be "good enough", and he's right. Bitcoin has a transparent settlement layer and this will always be a hole for financial surveillance and control.

>>12490910
>thinks PoW mining protects BTC against its greatest threat
Hey, retard, Bitcoin’s weakest attack vector isn’t 51% control of the network, its price

Why outlaw crypto when the market can destroy BTC.

>>12491151
*price volitilty

Are bitcoin maximalists the real pajeets? >>12490979

If you're truly a Bitcoin Maximalist and your dream is to see all the other altcoins die forever, then your priority should be pushing HARDCORE for privacy in the settlement layer. There's absolutely nothing more important than that right now. But good fucking luck with that. I gave up and IMO there's too much money in this game already for someone to change the social contract of being completely transparent on the base layer to become something more opaque. But them, of course, you would lose the feature of being transparent.
In the future there are going to be a few coins that will be dominant, including Bitcoin. If you need to bet in another one, go look for a privacy-oriented coin that has decent technologies. People will be able to choose to transact in a transparent way when it benefits them to be fully public, and in a private way when it benefits them to be fully private. You can't have both on the same settlement layer.

>>12489334
>to treat autism

We don't need a cure, WE ARE THE CURE!

>>12489151
how does it feel that i quad tripled my btc value last year by being in the god protocol?

>>12489334
>because when you have enough money, money doesn’t matter anymore
Topkek

>>12491184
Monero. Grin.

>>12490997

If you want privacy use LN ezy pezy

>>12490997

You could also smartbridge btc into monero or whatever its really not that hard once the whole infrastructure is set up. ALL blockchain functionalities will either be built in or accesible by Bitcoin

>>12489151
BTC minimalists generally don't research other projects enough it seems. If they did, they would understand the BTC is the steam engine but modern projects are becoming super cars.

I know BTC wont go anywhere and in the long run will make people rich. But you have to understand certain projects will out-preform BTC in the coming years in terms of gains. This is basically inevitable considering the stagnation of BTC "technology".

>>12492429
Fuck... meant to say BTC Maximalists.

Enjoy your $50 transaction fee in the next bullrun, boomers.

>>12489151
>Bitcoin maximalists only
>brainlets only

The only problems I see with BTC is the high miner fees when it was worth over 10.000 and slow transaction times

>>12489151
>Africa is the only continent that matters
>Humans originated from Africa

>>12493082
they didn't tho

I know this is a bitcoin only thread but i still feel Litecoin has a say in the matter.

Same concepts but more for the avarage purchases

>>12493082
The "out of africa" thingy is debatable, fren
With archaeology in general tou should stick to the "these are the oldest bones we found" instead of the "these are the oldest bones, like, ever" paradigm

>>12489341
late adopters like you don't understand that bitcoin is for early adopters, the young and in-touch.

if you're forced to buy alts because you didn't get insanely rich on crypto, YOU are the boomer, the luddite, the one that waited nearly 10 years before jumping on board. its people like you that will be struggling to understand why bitcoin isn't "dying" while everybody that's in touch with the economics and social implications of a digital store of value and medium of exchange keep getting wealthier.

>>12494020
unfortunately litecoin is the prime example of why 99% of alts are fundamentally backed only by bitcoin itself, and contribute nothing to the market other than speculation.

on a scale of alts you have ethereum at the top, and litecoin at the bottom.

>>12489726
>One of the greatest things about bitcoin is the message. The developers contribute for free and the speakers spread the message around the world many who do it for free.
This is key to me and why I use alts only to gain more btc. Most devs of alts gave themselves some coins and then released the rest to others. Most, especially like ripple, have paid ceos and executives who do it for a job. There is no belief or motivation. Nothing higher than a job to them.

But I'm a latecomer and poorfag so I need my shitcoin alts to moon so i can get btc.

How many of you have done even one LN transaction? How many of you just keep your coins on an exchange waiting for the price to go up?

>>12494107
>>12489726
Monero has no premine, a fair launch, and most devs work on it for free with a few being funded by community donations and a couple of others funded by companies in the ecosystem. Most bitcoin devs are paid by some weird company with Bilderberg connections.

Antonopoulos lives for the status and the speaking fees while clearly not believing in Bitcoin enough to put some of those fees into bitcoin. Even when he was given bitcoins as a gift he gave part of that away to (((charity))). Couldn't just graciously accept the coins without using the moment in the spotlight to virtue signalling some more. If something overtook bitcoin he'd be all over it. He used to hedge his bets by saying something could replace bitcoin until maximalism rose to a cultish fever that he now panders to.

>>12493952
>>12494045
>Humans evolved from monkeys
>Monkeys are superior

>>12495006
>now he panders to it
>literally just released a book on ethereum

All the popular base pairs are BTC. People will sell shit coins back into BTC, driving demand up as the next hot shit coin becomes popular. Most people investing now won't want to cash out BTC until its over 20k.

>>12495069
Guess ethereum got big enough for him to engage. Funny because ethereum is retarded shit which goes to show his speaking is based on status and not principles as much as he'd like you to believe otherwise.

>>12495085
That's definitely it. It couldn't be that he's smarter than you.

>>12495006
Monero is still an alt where people have been speculating giving its launch less legitimacy
Tari is funded by capital groups and the main monero devs are being paid off
It can't scale but still has a uncapped block size good thing for them nobody uses it
This is a bitcoin maximalist thread fren

>>12495326
>Monero is still an alt
Relative to the current financial system bitcoin is still an alt. We're nowhere near a level of adoption where things are settled.

>people have been speculating
? Of course, same with bitcoin. Why would people lucking into massive holdings be better than speculators?

>Tari is funded by capital groups
Tari /= Monero.

>the main monero devs are being paid off
What did you mean by this?

>It can't scale
Quite the opposite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECqcf-Nyjmw

>This is a bitcoin maximalist thread fren
In some ways I consider myself a maximalist. Monero is just more bitcoin than bitcoin.

>public ledger
No.

>>12495484
>"Monero is just more bitcoin than bitcoin."
This.

>>12490312
LN is will die
Utreexo is why we moon

monero has too much risk in forking because of the extreme anti asic devs

>>12489273
Thank you for this flash in the pan of rationality on /biz/

>>12490771

>>12495551
Maybe if bitcoin went back to 2012 with weak ass security and development

>>12495484
Fluffypony or whatever is getting PAID for tari you retard
Just because some obscure chain has cool ring obscuring techniques doesn't mean it's compete shit
Hidden asic weak ass centralized security decisions to appease GPU fgpa fags there's a reason why no one uses that trash

>>12496573
It isn't*