/biz/ - Business & Finance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk
Official music video for this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlN2nel5HI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7-wwcK3nOc

If I didn't already encounter idiots like you in the previous crashes, OP, you may actually have been successful in stirring fear.
The world is not zero sum.

>>11907192
>It was fucken over
This thread is officially over.

> never made tons of money on btc
> admits to being retarded to even figure out how to get one btc
> a wall of absolute seething

>>11907758
>The world is not zero sum.
It literally is even if you print money others are losing wealth.
Or where do you think this magical money is coming from in crypto?

Adam mines crypto, Bob buys crypto from Adam. Bob sits on his crypto and watches price go up. Bob sells his crypto to Sally she gives Bob her money. Cyrpto crashes Sally has no money only worthless numbers in a computer (crypto shit). Bob has money from Sally and is spending it.

Sally lost all her money and Bob got hers. Adam also got money from Bob however Bob and Adam have more wealth now while Sally lost her wealth.

its literally a game of musical chair you fucken retards.

>>11907877
Bitcoin is only a zero sum game *if* the game of musical chairs comes to an end.
What happens if the game keeps on running for the remainder of Adam, Bob, and Sally's natural life?

The game of musical chairs has been going on for almost ten years. Probability says that if it hasn't stopped since yesterday, that it will likely continue on into tomorrow.

i was you until late 2016
ah, the smugness post mtgox
glad i grew up
it's never too late to swallow your pride anon. think how stupid you'll feel in 2022 when buttcorn is unironically 100k

>>11907192
classic nocoiner cope

>>11908032
>Bitcoin is only a zero sum game
This is a model of all speculations including things like tulip mania only bitcoin has practically zero value while there is some value in tulips (you can feed tulips to farm animals etc).
>Adam, Bob, and Sally's natural life?
1) The time frame is irrelevant it eventually crashes.
2) Never in the history of humanity did we have a speculative bubble who was beyond human natural life.
3) Look at this every time BTC drops there is a angry Sally's and some happy Adam's and Bob's who are glad they sold their BTC when they did
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/market-price?timespan=all
4) [to technical don't respond to this] it is possible to calculate the moment when a bubble must pop (they pop before this in reality so its mostly useless for predictions) and its when it reaches 50% eMCX because its financially impossible to keep it up. The growth rate is a countdown to the eventual collapse however local maximums prevent any bubbles from reaching 50% eMCX.

>>11907192
Saved

>>11908151
>2) Never in the history of humanity did we have a speculative bubble who was beyond human natural life.
Gold.

>>11908173
What did he mean by this?

>>11908185
Gold is a speculative asset and has been for thousands of years. Why?

>>11907877
You're ignoring much much bigger factors. Say country A gets better in 10 years, they're wealth has come from that improvement. Say country B gets worse in 10 years, they loose wealth, but from their own bullshit, not from anyone else. Say Alice is in country A and Bob in country B. Alice mines, Bob buys, price goes up, Bob has more.

>>11907192

The fundmentals are solid.

>Unbanked Billions
>Authoritarian shadow banking cartels
>Internet Black Market doing $100 Million per month.

>>11907192
Well it paid my mortgage off, bullshit or not.

>>11908197
>Why?
Look at some graphs
https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
Golds price did go up and popped. Now its level AKA not going up. Remember the gold bubble of 2007~2008.
If something looks like my picture of a Sine Curves then its a cyclical jump they go up and then they pop and its a game of musical chairs who was started anew.

>>11908279
The musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years, and because of this Gold has proven to not be a zero-sum game.
Bitcoin shares similar qualia as gold, however it looks to have more upside because of value gains experienced through Metcalfe's law, we should expect that there will be volatility.

My point being is that Bitcoin is only a zero sum game if the game ends. This is obvious.
You've thought about what happens if the game ends, I encourage you to think about what happens if the game cannot be stopped.

>>11908279
Except gold doesn't look like a sine graph when adjusted for inflation, and is actually way below relative worth than it was from like 1970-1990, it's almost at an all time inflation adjusted low

>>11907758
Well it's only negative game for you :^) when others have taken their profits you will start buying more and more... one day other one kicks down the pyramid once again! Next stop is at 800$ so keep shoveling!

if you're poor and you don't have 1 btc by now, you will never make it

>>11908324
You lack novelty and reak of inadequacy.

>>11908263
>Bitcoin shill
>>11908279
>>11908316

look at the graphs.
Seriously look at them.

Whoever bought BTC at 19K can only sell it for less.
Whoever sold BTC at 19K is laughing his way to the bank.

>>11908373
Price goes up and price goes down. We've been through these cycles before. Are you suggesting that somehow this time it is different and doomed to go to zero, thus making Bitcoin a zero-sum game?

>>11908373

>Buying in at the All time high.
They lost money... No shit Sherlock.

The bitcoin sphere is healthier than it was in 2014 when mtgox stole a bunch of money and silk road collapsed.

>>11907192
>I'm someone who never invested in bitcoin

OK.
Now please shill your shitcoin and GTFO.

>>11908321
>Except gold doesn't look like a sine graph
Thank you for a intelligent comment on the subject.
I was pointing out that if something is going into bubbles and poping (the sine is the most perfect representation like this BTW no bubble looks like this in history its only a demonstration).
>adjusted for inflation
This is something important to remember.
However look at the graph.
The price is stagnant since 2013.
Its not getting up.

Gold is also as a store of value and has psychological mentality based on history.

So people buy gold to keep their wealth safe.
Also there is demand from jewelry and electronics for gold.

So if you bought gold in 2012 you don't even have the possibility to sell it and get back the money you payed for it in 2012.
6 Years of no gain.
What is alternative/opportunity cost the post.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opportunity%20cost
>>11908316
>The musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years
No it did not seriously look at the data. 6 years of no gain.
Gold prices are not increasing unless you are a turbo hectic micro speculator selling and buying in its micro spikes. Then it looks like a fucken sine curve you dumb fuck!

>musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years
it literally did not you are literally denying reality and facts here.
>musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years
Also its impossible for something to increase in price forever bubbles will end after they get to 50% eMCX this is a mathematical fact and mathematics needs to stop working for something to defy this absolute.
And this will never happen.

>>11907192
>accidentally admits to having a lower IQ than the millions of pajeets who successfullygoogled "how to buy bitcoin" and owned BTC within that same day.
yeah, i'll definitely be taking financial advice from someone with less technological prowess than my grandma...

>>11908509
>No shit Sherlock.
Yet you deny its not zero sum.

>>11907192
KYS nocoiner troll.

>>11908564
How much did you lose in buying BTC? Seriously look at all these threads.
At what price did you buy? Yea you are the one to talk.

"Did you understand that" the post

>>11907192
If this is not bait , do you realize the profits you missed by not shorting btc at 10K ? with leverage, we are talking about more than 10000% gains. How can you cope with this ?

>>11908572

Zero Sum doesn't mean anything to me.

>>11908612
Then learn what it means and educate yourself.

>>11908593
0. I did buy XRB at 32 cents and sell at $35 though. how's your 1% yearly ROI in the stock market treating you while I get a 100x in under 3 months?

>>11908550

Gold mining capacity is flooding the markets, blackrock selling ETF's probably helps too.

>>11908629
You understand how silly this is right?
>>11908279
>>11908197
>The musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years
I prove using facts and mathematics it is not.
And there is a 6 year stagnation of the price.
>>11908629
>>You see anon the excuse for this is

Irrelevant the thesis was
>The musical game of chairs of Gold has endured for thousands of years
Gold was supposed to continue to increase in price.
It literally is not and everyone who bought it in 2012 is fucked now.

Is coherency of thought something /biz/ lacks next to the inability to see facts and use mathematics?

>>11908622

You just said I denied bitcoin is zero sum.

Bitcoin mining is a Billion dollar industry, 10 million dollar data cebters with a 5 million dollar reinvestment required into new machines every 2 years.

The industry becomes over saturated after a price increase.
The reason I believe the price is crashing is Chinas economy is tanking.
China decided to go after the oil futures market and started selling oil futures in the Renminbi. America cannot let this continue so we tariffed the shit out of industries that had spongey margins.
I believe because of Bitcoins liquidity its the first thing people will liquidate in a market downturn, thats what we are seeing in the markets.

>>11908726
When will you learn
That noone cares about the opinion
Of the unimaginative

>>11908747

Do you think bitcoin will exist in 10 years? Do you think the petrodollar will exist in 10 years?

>>11908550
Gold is a game of musical chairs that's been played for thousands of years. It is a speculative asset that has endured for longer than natural human life spans.
This flies in the face of your post about how speculative assets do not last longer than human life spans.

Until the price of a speculative asset hits zero and its game end will it be demonstrable that the game was a zero sum one -- as a future unpredictable event could spike the price and send it higher, thus changing the sum and who is winners and losers in the game.

Some games are competitive and operate on win-loss outcomes, while others produce winners just for participating in its win-win outcome, meaning only the losers did not participate.

Other games, like communicating with you, only produce losses.
Farewell.

>>11908726
>You just said I denied bitcoin is zero sum.
Everything that follows this statement is literally a non sequitur.

You babble about china and unrelated subjects.
The people who sold BTC at the peak got the money from the ones who wanted to buy BTC.
Its the Adam Bob and Sally scenario.
Sally is fucked over while Bob and Adam have her money.
>muh china
Don't you know how the game of musical chairs works?
Or how the game of hot potato works?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KseTjh6W9aE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_EqaFaF5A

Its fucken irrelevant who stops the music. It works like this and Adam and Bob have Sally's money.

>>11907192

>You where literally jerking one another of is a speculative bubble not different from Tulip mania.

>>11908629

Can confirm, I am a software engineer at a mining co. Lot's of crazy new ground imaging systems are making it easier to prospect. This isn't just the case for gold either, lot's of other minerals.

>>11908796
>Gold is a game of musical chairs that's been played for thousands of years. It is a speculative asset that has endured for longer than natural human life spans.
>This flies in the face of your post about how speculative assets do not last longer than human life spans.
See:
>>11908279
>>11908550
Ok professor algebra can you show the supposed rise of gold from 2012? It stagnated.
You are denying mathematics and facts here buddy.

>>11907192
>>11907192
>actually checking the price of btc even once before mid 2020

There's another halvening, you fucking dumb cunt. Bitcoin, ADA, ETH, EOS, XLM, LINK, XRP and anything slightly centralized with good use case will be absurdly high prices one day - anything that offers blockchain to the Jews on a silver platter. LINK and XRP are literally giving blockchain to the central banks by working with swift etc. but that is the exact reason they are going to reach such imaginably high prices.

Anything completely decentralized gets shut down by Jew funded media claiming it is a "scam" rapidly and will never work.

Investing in XRP and LINK is completely immoral because once the central banks have blockchain tech and create a global reserve currency the taxation systems will be unconquerable and we will be enslaved for eternity - however these investments will also make you rich.

Even if a project is excellent it will get shut down immediately if it is too decentralized because it threatens the central banks. LINK is less immoral because it is still using decentralized data feeds and that was probably its original goal. XRP is completely degenerate but a good investment.

You don't have to believe me, and I don't care, but that is your daily dose of the redpill.

>>11907192
>>11908857
And here's your image, check the date of when this was created and everything has been right so far and will continue to be very accurate.

Who shorted the market. Why doesn't the government do something.

>>11908879
See:
>>11908373
Your graph is not even remotely accurate and is not showing the price.
2018 is light years above 2014 in price etc.

>>11908909
>Who shorted the market. Why doesn't the government do something.
crypto coins are not regulated by the government welcome to the wild west of finance kid.
I think we need crypto for retards to play it and think
>Fuck government regulations! Free market baby!
And when you get fucked over by the (((Free market))) you scream like little bitches
>Government save me! Government help me! Government give regulations! Government regulate this away!

>>11907192
Hey OP Faggot,

My name is John, and I hate you. You are a fat, retarded, no-life who spends every second of the day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it’s fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you take it to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.

Don’t be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I’m pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than “jack off to naked drawn Japanese people”? I also get straight A’s, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Pic Related: It’s me and my bitch

>>11908990

You little bitch.

>he spent real money to buy fake money

>>11908936
It was made months ago and the graph as well as all of the other BTC logarithmic regression graphs say we would be around $3-4k at exactly this time of the year, which has happened. Go and look at the exact same graphs made in 2012-2014 and see how terrifyingly accurate they were with predicting all of the prices up until now. You people are helpless.

>>11907192
Shitcoin cucks BTFO.

It's only even been a fucking gamble.

AHAHAHAHA!

No control ther than buy low sell high.

My fucking sides

>>11909109
Then we see in 2019.
Now everyone who bought BTC is a complete moron you wait when it hits bottom to buy it.

However I don't think BTC will even exist in 2020 (the network will vanish).

>>11909151

Would you care to explain how the bitcoin block chain dies in 2020?

Vulnerability? Regulation? Hard Fork? All of the above?

>>11909151
You are a lost cause and a clueless one at that.

>>11909182
Depends all of them are factors.
I think the biggest is technology its unfeasible to keep a public record.

Basically imagine it like this a peace of paper where everyone writes every transaction ever made in BTC.
Only the more transactions there where the bigger the peace of paper is and it takes more computational power to keep up with it.

Now the big backbone miners are going away (BTW miners are basically like bank overseeing every transaction made in the network) so who will keep track of this gigantic public ledger that BTC needs?

if the big ones go away then no one will be able to verify transaction over the bitcoin network.

The other big thing will be possible regulation or making crypto coins illegal.

>>11909449

Of the big miners go away the difficulty to solve the algorithm drops.

The difficulty is based in time it takes to solve one block every 8-12 minutes absolute constant.

Less miners means less difficulty.

>>11909489
Do you have a BTC wallet installed on your computer?
Did you even try to install one?
You know the 200+GiB you need to download to have one?
Yea its the log of every transaction made by everyone ever on the BTC network.

The more transactions the larger this shit is growing.
And you need to handle the shit that is already written down.

>>11907192
I would like to see you destroy a space ship when your pocket full of pennies and dimes floats into a cooling fan vent and shorts out the pcb that controls the fresh air return all because you didnt want to pay using crypto on your phone

>>11907192
>1 post by this ID
Come on now biz...

>>11907192
also if it wasnt possible to create wealth without taking wealth from somewhere else (like a retard version of the laws of energy) then artists artwork wouldnt be worth so much with value that rises

>>11909563
> destroy a space ship
> a space ship
>you didnt want to pay using crypto on your phone
This is how being insane looks like.

>>11909588
how do you plan to pay for things when mankind is in outer space and Mars?

or do you think people WIILL ABSOLUTLY NEVER buy things while in space?

>>11909642
Nocoiners don't understand logic, my friend.

>>11909548

https://jcmit.net/memoryprice.htm

And RDR2 took up 100GB, running a node should be incentivized however.

>>11908611
>by not shorting btc at 10K

are there places you can short crypto

>>11909642
>A problem for less then 0.000001% of humanity (number of astronauts in space)
>Who don't have this problem (no shops on the ISS)

How is this even relevant to anything?
No one alive today will buy anything in space.

However lets grant you this SF scenario.
What is wrong with a simple SQL database? Holy fuck a simply MySQL database(this is used for web forums etc not a professional database) can handle everything far faster and more efficiently then the dog shit that are crypto coins.

So if you are on a spaceship and eat food (is this your example) the ships computer will simply keep track of what you need to pay and to authorize yourself you use a card or a thumb print or literally whatever, is the concept of "put it on my tab " to difficult for you to understand?

Why is block chain relevant to this? Why not literally every SQL in existence?

Also I have no idea how the communication is in your space civilization however if communication takes days or years block chain is irrelevant since you need a active connection to the BTC network to do anything.

Also you keep ignoring that if the communication distances are so large the ship will simply give you a packaged deal saying you pay in the start and are provided up front agreed food at certain times of the day. Where you ever in a motel in your life?

I mean Jesus Christ checks exist! Is this to difficult to understand for you?

I mean even SQLite or even MangoDB can outperform block chain.

Also I like to question on what a peace of shit you are traveling on if it does not even have artificial gravity?

A problem that will not exist for anyone alive today and you shill the worst technological solution then simple SQL.
Literally insane argument.

>>11909687
>And RDR2 took up 100GB
Literally what?

>>11909993
any new video game is 100GB now
downloading a 200GB file is nothing

>>11910057
and do you think the 200 GiB are full of audio files and textures?

Do you have any idea how long it takes for the BTC network to register a transaction?

This is why it is a problem.

>>11910091

Literally 8-10 minutes.

>>11910100
>8-10 minutes.
>minutes
>minutes

You don't see a problem here?
You know the time is only going to get longer.
And what is to long?
30 minutes?
1 hour?
2 hours?
12 hours?
1 day?
2 days?

Because if the big miners are going away this will be a problem.
So...

Tell me this how long does it take for a credit card transaction to register?
You see the problem here?

>>11910149

I think you get the idea of why Bitcoin is a terrible "Currency".

Ive always treated it as a "Commodity." With easy liquidity.

>>11910149

Also you dont understand how the bitcoin algorithm works.
The difficulty is automatically adjusted to the point where it takes 8-10 minutes to solve a block.
Even if only a single laptop was hashing the bitcoin network, it would still take 8-10 minutes.

>>11910228
>Even if only a single laptop was hashing the bitcoin network
This is physically impossible and demonstratively wrong run your own block chain and try to process 1M simulated requests then talk.

>>11910204
When do you think trading in BTC will take to long for you?
30 days?

I'm actually interested for me a 1 day transfer is borderline useless.

>>11910228
>Also you dont understand how the bitcoin algorithm works.
Talking to /biz/ about anything and expecting answers shiggy diggy
https://coincentral.com/how-long-do-bitcoin-transfers-take/
>However, the recent popularity boom of Bitcoin has caused congestion on the network. The average time for one confirmation has recently ranged anywhere from 30 minutes to over 16 hours in extreme cases.
>from 30 minutes to over 16 hours in extreme cases.
>16 hours in extreme cases.
>16 hours
shiggy diggy

>>11908197
Gold's price comes mostly supply and demand. Unlike your internet meme "currency" gold actually has uses.

>>11907192
>1 post by this ID
sage

>>11910550

So transferring value over internet to fat away country without the need for a bank account or a middleman is not a use case?

Gold is 100% a speculative asset btw. Almost none of the values come from the "actual uses".

>>11910858
Fun fact:
You can buy ((Decorative)) pure gold figures and ship them like any other good to other countries.

>>11910464

Sure there are outliers, and it'll take 2 weeks before the difficulty official adjusts.

Transactions with miner fees assesed take less than 15 minutes to process.

Nobody tell OP the value of everything in existence is subjective and speculative

>>11910858
A currency is meant to be used as a medium of exchange. Crypto was designed for that, but instead it's just being used as internet gambling. No one is buying anything with it. People are either hoarding it gambling that it will go up, or trading it when they gamble it will go down.

Gold has plenty of uses, from jewelry to electronics. Gold and crypto are unrelated anyhow. Gold is a commodity, crypto is just a currency, and a terrible one at that.

>>11907758
>The world is not zero sum.

That doesn't apply to crypto where people are just trying to unload their bags to greater fools. There's no utility in just holding crypto.

>>11910952
crypto is actually nothing.
Even the Weimar Republic paper money has some intrinsic value like:
You can burn the paper to warm your home
You can give it to children so they play.
You can stuff some holes in your house and get insulation.
Makes great wallpaper.

crypto has no intrinsic value.

>>11911029
Forgot image.

>>11910952
bitcoin is useful, just not as a speculative asset. Payment processors and corrupt governments can deny you access to use or transfer money from your account, but you can always bring cash to some dude in a mall and get BTC anonymously.

>>11911041
There are more effective ways of laundering money that doesn't have the person praying that their shitcoin's market didn't tank overnight.

>>11911112
>There are more effective ways of laundering money
I'm not shilling shit coins however what are good ways to
>ways of laundering money
?

>>11907192
>However I knew that you should have dropped the shit when it was $10K

Wow what a genius you are! Never even touched the asset but still have a lot of opinions about it (While still being unable to buy such asset due to his own stupidity).

>people are surprised that a "currency" that you can't buy anything with and therefore has no value has tanked in value

sorry kids but if you have a dollar but you can't buy anything with it, the value of that isn't a dollar, it's zero

>>11911162
You never played the lottery by watching the numbers only(no money inserted) did you?
Same for all markets, you only watch the numbers and see if your feelings checked out.

Also the problem is not getting it its:
1) Seeing how to deal with the gov and taxes if you want to sell it
2) Not getting fucked over by some scammers

>>11907192
>He doesn't know.
Stay poor my ignorant little pleb.

>>11908316
>You've thought about what happens if the game ends, I encourage you to think about what happens if the game cannot be stopped.

Well put anon.

>>11912004
Literally impossible and never registered in history.
This simply can not happen.

>>11909577
You know IDs change when you post in a different thread, right?

What's with all the shit FUD lately?
I'm never selling screencap this for 2035.
Fuck niggers

I agree with OP. Bitcoin is fucking retarded and has no real value. People jumped into it to get rich. If Bitcoin doesn't hit 0, I'm cashing out. Thanks for the free money morons! It best part is that I never spent an actual cent on it. Have fun going broke! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>11907192
(((cryptocurrency))) is (((their))) plot to drain whatever assets people have left since last recession

bitcoin and ETH are shit coins.

the real value in crypto is the blockchain.

>>11907192
you didn't invest in bitcoin because you where too fucking retarded to realise its value when 2 years ago when it was under $1000 and you are no buying the top, dont pat yourself on the back for not being a total fucking brainlet now and not buying in...

reminder if you buy bitcoin above $1000 you are an NPC

CAPITULATE CAPITULATE CAPITULATE

SELL SELL SELL

CAPITULATE CAPITULATE CAPITULATE

SELL SELL SELL


SELL INTO MY DIRTY JEW HANDS YESSSSSSSSSSSS
GOOD GOYIM

>>11908879
Ok Anon based on this graph I will buy 1 bitcoin in 2020 then and if it grows to 160,000 and I can buy a Tesla model S with it I'll believe it.

>>11908151
no. FIAT and BTC have both the same purpose to arrange the use of all other things.

The efficiency gains of FIAT and BTC over the alternative say bater is what gives it value, to organsie the whole economy and the the work in it and value it.

BTC cannot be interfered with like fiat by printing more or faking the measure.

That is its intrinsic value.

Tulip bulbs could not do this .... they rot and you can grow more