/biz/ - Business & Finance

No matter who wins, it shows that POW is dead.

>>11804485
SV, but I cba to go in depth. Sv needs no shilling, Craig will wing it by himself.

>>11804507
>No matter who wins, it shows that POW is alive because only BTC wins
fixed

>>11804507
>No matter who wins, it shows that POW is dead
Does it really?
Does it not just expose a facett of the pow blockchain tech? Maybe a brutal side of it, but so what?

>>11804485
these conmen are so goddamn lame

>>11804485
SV is the real Slim Satoshi.

>>11804572
If SV win, it shows that someone who is hostile to the politcal side of Bitcoin (freedom, small government, low censorship) can win just because they got enough hash.

If ABC win, it shows that someone who is hostile to the technical side of Bitcoin (on chain scaling, good solid tech, no parasitic sidechains) can win just because they got enough hash.

POW didnt work.
It assumed that miners would do what was best for Bitcoin.
And now with SV, even when someone showed up who does what's best for Bitcoin technically, they completely screwed the pooch when it comes to doing what is good for the community too.

It's like the worst of both worlds now.
This governance model doesn't work.
And now the whole market is at risk.

>>11804800
>hostile to the politcal side of Bitcoin
lolbertarians will get rekt

It's all garbage. If you're asking who of these three is the most retarded, it's this fuck

>>11804833
This goes deeper than just exposing the flaws in libertarian ideology

Think about what SV are putting forward
a completely controlled permissioned blockchain
no freedom - worse freedom than fiat paradigm

even if they found the perfect technical solution for Bitcoin, it would be worth a piece of shit on the ground if there is no freedom.

Both these scams are what's crashing the market. Think about it.

>>11804800
But actual Bitcoin wins because we now have 2 fucktards fighting to be "the real Bitcoin Cash which is the real Bitcoin"

Imagine having to defend that narrative.

>>11804485
A bunch of disjointed hipsters working from their basements led by an ex-con blackballed american car salesman puppet controlled by a hardware manufacturer holding shitcoins

Vs

An organized group of businessmen, lawyers and researchers led by a controversial wild man with political connections backed by a white casino mogul / underworld boss holding cash

>>11804507
>POV
You meant Bitcoin Cash.

>>11804878
muh fweedom is a meme

>>11804485

OP, read this article to learn what the ABC folks don't want you to know:

https://archive.is/YULsd

> If SV win, it shows that someone who is hostile to the politcal side of Bitcoin (freedom, small government, low censorship) can win just because they got enough hash.
And they didn't.
> If ABC win, it shows that someone who is hostile to the technical side of Bitcoin (on chain scaling, good solid tech, no parasitic sidechains) can win just because they got enough hash.
That's not what it shows. CTOR and DSV are both changes that assist with, rather than subtract from, the goal of peer to peer electronic cash, exactly opposite to the original contentious changes that caused the BCH/BTC fork. Segwitcore's "win" actually showed that someone who is hostile to the technical side of Bitcoin (onchain scaling, good solid tech, no parasitic sidechains) can win just because they pump enough fake money into the market to inflate their instrument so it's the most profitable coin to mine.
But Bitcoin fought back by persisting regardless of that bribery attack, and it still exists today. All SV is, is just one more attempt to kill that chain, because it's that chain that actually matters. It's that chain that is secession from the global financial system. While that chain exists, those who want to see the state and central banks burn will continue to have a place to store their wealth and put their energy.
That's why they attack it so hard.
> POW didnt work.
On the contrary, this time the attack that almost succeeded the first time, and did succeed in signalling majority hashpower for the meantime, failed utterly. ABC was successfully defended by majority hashpower and conclusively won the war, period.

>>11804878
That's what (((core))) are putting forward.

Roger Ver was hired by the banks to kill Bitcoin so I'm all in in BSV.

>>11805422
no

>>11804800
>can win just because they got enough hash.
Except no one can get that, you naive idiot.

>>11805342
What about wormhole?
1 min blocks?

And on the topic of SV:
Because of POW and the way it works, the hash they amassed to try and attack BCH allows them to still exist. They are still out there as a threat mining blocks and building their chain. Even if the whole community or world was against them, they are still around as a threat that will never go away.

>>11805365
Core is a very extreme example of it, yeah.
But SV is playing the same game from a different angle.

>>11805490
> What about wormhole?
> 1 min blocks?
As near as I can tell, this is nothing but conspiracy theory fearmongering. There is nothing in WHC that was not already done in XCP, which itself changed nothing at all. There are no discussions or indications that a change to 1 minute blocks is planned, and it is unclear where this line of reasoning even came from beyond coingeek wildly speculating.
> Because of POW and the way it works, the hash they amassed to try and attack BCH allows them to still exist.
At a massive cost, they are mining extremely unprofitably, and given the fact that they actually appear to have no reason to exist, this is likely to only get worse. Unless of course the coingeek wormhole conspiracy theory is actually legitimate. If they're honestly right about that, despite all appearances to the contrary and zero evidence thereof presently, they're providing an extremely expensive insurance policy to all SV holders on the event that WHC really is just a slow acting poison pill to kill the real Bitcoin, and they will inherit that mantle if it's true.
> they are still around as a threat that will never go away.
There's all the financial pressure in the world right now for them to simply capitulate and go back to mining the most profitable chain, which is as well established over a long period of time simply the economically rational option for all miners to take at any given time. So it isn't at all given that they will persist and never go away, and they're not "a threat" to anything, as BCH has clearly set the floor of their hashing power to the ceiling of the SV hashing power, effectively neutralising their ability to meddle even if they did just abandon their chain and start using their entire hashpower pool offensively.

>>11805490
> But SV is playing the same game from a different angle.
As much as I don't see a need for SV due to the WHC theory being unrealistic, and as much as I see ABC is clearly simply technically better, I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that the SV changes are anything like as hostile as what was done on core. They're effectively re-adding some core disabled op-codes and increasing the block size with a statement that nChain resources will be used to ensure that size can actually be consistently hit. I see nothing wrong with any of that.

>>11805632
>SV changes as hostile as Core
The different angle I mentioned was this: not that their code was hostile, but actually their everything else.
Patent trolling, throwing around the threat of lawsuits against other coins, being pro-censorship. Using their legal weight to coerce.

I actually understand their crusade against shitcoins and desire to protect Bitcoin, but it is a dangerous game.
You saw what happened to Yours.org. They went full BS.
Never go full BS.

>>11805619
>conspiracy fearmongering
You're right, it could easily have been that.

>SV as insurance
Yeah, I wonder why they exist then.
Maybe the chopsticks theory was true.
We'll see.

>>11805783
Definitely, the hostility on that front was really confusing to me because it made it enormously more likely that they would lose the war. It's almost like they wanted to lose. But that in itself is the insurance policy against that kind of behaviour. If actors undertake it, this will invariably be the result.

https://keyport.tv/free/3aoLJ8Aa8p3YH6

15:46 craig wright surprise-pops into this ABC guy's solo video

>>11805838
It doesn't seem to me like they lost.
They gave birth to a brand new coin that is already listed on multiple exchanges and high on CMC.
They have lots of hash, and lots of attention.
Now BCH is split in two.

I think they won.
This is why I saw POW is flaw and cracked.

>>11805975
Strange times.
I haven't picked a side, I just want Bitcoin to succeed.
I don't think either side has showed their true hand yet either.

>>11805988
I'm all in SV. Down 40% ATM but considering buying more

>>11806094
77 and falling, it will get so much worse as big fish in the chain dump their bags. And each dollar it falls makes the already unprofitable mining operation that much more unprofitable. Think of it like this; You attempt a hostile takeover on a business and announce a new strategy, but you get knocked back, because you didn't actually have the resources to execute it. Undeterred, you attempt to make a new business based on your business plan, and you claim by fiat that your shares are worth what the old shares are, and you also provide all holders of shares in the old business shares in your new one at no cost to them. You also setup a distribution network for your new business that matches the costs of the distribution network of the incumbent, for some reason predicting that the market will accept a plan it already rejected on your failed takeover attempt?
What happens next? Your shares appreciate in value? The market accepts them for the fiat one you granted? Your new supply chain is operating at full utilisation and you're making a profit on the venture?
How about your shares get dumped to shit, the market laughs at your fiat valuation and takes advantage of it for as long as you can actually hold it, and your new supply chain breaks your back financially as you try and service a demand that clearly indicated to you it simply doesn't want your product.
Mark my words. SV is fucked. Cap this.

>>11804878

Society can not exist without law. Anarchists and communists are the dumbest people in the world, and they represent everything wrong with Blocktream and ABC. They are closet commies.

>>11806101
i already have a lot of BCH but if Jihan actually dumps his BCH on the SV chain I'm going to buy more when the price is super low

i doubt Jihan will actually do it though. he was all talk and no action when needed last week, in the end all the hash came from bitcoin.com. he's probably just all talk this time too, the inner jew in Jihan will prevent him from dumping anything because in the back of his mind he's thinking "what if SV wins tho".

>>11806101

Buy at the bottom friend.

>>11806202

Craig has no serious opinions on anything. He flip flips every other day, week, month etc

>>11806202
Society cannot exist with poor laws either.
This is why I hate labels and dogmas and people picking sides.
The only thing that really matters in this life is smart people doing the right thing and making proper decisions. Everything else is just window dressing.

Everything can be abused.
Everything can be done incorrectly.
Every good thing can be made bad through incompetence, corruption, or worse.

It really all comes down to trust.

>>11806202
Communists are nowhere to be seen in the cryptoshere except perhaps BTC. Anarchocapitalists back BCH, and this is their view on law. It is not "we can do without it" for the record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

>>11806190
They won't dump. SV has a very good chance of winning and if they do dump the real whales will buy it up just to spite them. Jihan doesn't have the balls to dump it's all show.

Assuming crypto doesn't just all go to 0 SV will lead the charge.

>>11806190
>SV will dump
Makes many assumptions. Good ones. Smart ones.
But they are assumptions still.

I can make many more that assumes it will rise.

>>11806331

You do understand that every exchange which supports SV is owned by the same company, right? Every other exchange rejected it. Hell, Kraken outright said it was shitty. You don't even have the technical shit because none of the patents have even be released.

SV is literally just a fork of ABC with a few variables changed

>>11806370

And and SV might be facing a Re-Org. TOP FUCKING KEK WHO BUYS THIS SHIT COIN?

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/bitcoin-sv-appears-to-be-facing-a-block-reorganization-attack/

>>11806309
On what basis do you assume SV will win? State your case, and define what you mean by win, because in the sense of the hash war and split and the threats by CSW of No Split, they've already lost.
So what does an SV victory even look like, this thing you're so convinced is coming?

>>11806258
Plenty of commies in crypto. In fact they are building on some of the biggest coins.

>>11806441
Thanks anon, just sold 100k.

>>11806370
>>11806401
>Re-Org
Top kek. I like the false flag theory.

>SV is rejected
They've been alive for a few days only.
The fact that they have their own chain and coin now is only a good thing for them. They are in control of their own destiny now.
Before all they had were threats.

>>11805477
I'm mining 8 hash right now, fuckboy.

>>11806258
>>11806253

You need a state to enforce law. It's pretty fundamental, and if you don't understand that, you are too dumb to comment on politics. The challenge and the goal is building a lawful and honest government that is transparent and can be trusted to work for the citizens.

Corrupt, authoritarian government = bad
Honest, small, lawful government = ideal

Seek to expose and remove the corrupt, and build the honest. If you try to destroy or subvert the state and law altogether, you are the enemy. Anarchist or communist alike. Law is necessary. State is necessary.

>>11806467

>>11806535

SV can do whatever it wants, but to act like they won or are slated to win is nonsense. SV is more of a shitcoin than bitcoin Gold

>>11806556
Good, we agree in theory.
Now let's apply this analogy to Bitcoin governance.

>>11806580
They didn't win or lose the war.
But they won a huge battle by coming into actual existence in the form of a separate chain.
That was their goal - to split. To exist.

They are alive and determined.
Write them off? Foolish.

>>11805365
>muh Core
>muh BSV
>muh ABC
imagine

>>11806580
the hashwar is still going anon

>>11806556
>let's give the 3 1000TB blocksize BCHSV nodes to (((the government))), what can go wrong!

>>11804485
None of them.

>>11806556
> unironically shilling for craig and calling others dumb
topkek fuckface.
> You need a state to enforce law.
Flatly empirically historically false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycentric_law
You are a sad little brainlet who never questioned anything they were fed, and have a brain consequently filled only with shit.
> The challenge and the goal is building a lawful and honest government that is transparent and can be trusted to work for the citizens.
There's no such thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Authority

>>11806626
> But they won a huge battle by coming into actual existence in the form of a separate chain.
This is complete nonsense. Literally *nobody* was attempting to stop them, no attacks have taken place on their chain except the lol-tastic aforementioned shallow re-orgs that appear to be false flags designed to keep it off exchanges so it doesn't get dumped through the floor.
Nobody cares that SV split off, everyone is alright with it, they just don't think it's worth much.

>>11806806

you dont get it bro. it took a lot of courage to mine an incompatible ruleset and fork off. It's not liking forking bitcoin hasn't been done a hundred times already

>>11806628
Imagine a coretard not being aware.
But of course how could they be? Then they wouldn't be a coretard.

>>11806661
> let's give them control of the production layer and the tx processing nodes on the consumer layer and let them operate them in private, what could possibly go wrong?
My god you coretards are so fucking stupid, are you literally the stupidest people in crypto? I think you just may be.

>>11806806
>>11806819
Comments like these are why I think they have a real chance to win.
Everyone treats them as a joke while simultaneously falling for every trick they pull.

The only way this all works out in the end is if SV are secretly the good guys all along.
My trust level with humans is always at 0% so I can't think that way.
I will just wait and see. Good luck to all.

>>11806608

Nobody cares about your commie fantasy. Polycentric law is pure bullshit, it doesn't exist in the real world and has never existed. It's just commies circlejerking on how to subvert lawful governance. It's applied Critical Theory - fundamentally a Marxist concept. So easy to spot the communists like you.

>>11806793

It's pretty simple. Bitcoin as global P2P currency has to work within legal systems. It's neutral and not political in that sense. Acitivties on the blockchain needs to be subject to regular law enforcement, just like current money is, otherwise it doesn't work. If you imagine a criminal paradise fantasy world where Bitcoin is a global currency where nobody is subject to law, you are completely deluded. This is what Craig Wright understands, and what Roger doesn't.

>>11806969
>Acitivties on the blockchain needs to be subject to regular law enforcement, just like current money is, otherwise it doesn't work.

Kek, love how the statists always reveal themselves. We want to subvert government authority, faggot. Fuck off to lebbit

>>11806969
I messed up the reply order. Meant to be other way around. First paragraph response to 93, second paragraph to 08.

>>11806994
Butthurt commie.

>>11806969
>>11806997
It's dipshit authoritarian assholes like this who I use as a marker for projects to short. SV is clearly trash if this is the kind of parasite it attracts.

>>11806484
Wise choice.

>>11807066

I'm a libertarian. SV is dead and I'm Glad knowing bitcoin is powerful enough to get the statists crowing about new laws. If bitcoin weren't a threat, nobody would need to argue it needs more government oversight

>>11807067

>lawful society and lawful use of money is authoritarian

>>11807148
> USSR would describe their society in that exact fashion. As would any society that has ever fucking existed. Because they make the fucking laws, therefore everything they do is lawful, including being the largest cause of non natural death in the 20th century.
You are honestly too fucking stupid to breathe. Kill yourself.

>>11806997
>>11806969
>Bitcoin has to work within legal systems
I agree that rule of law is important.
But our current legal structure is designed to fuck over regular people.
If Bitcoin is as world-important as I think, the laws should change to accomodate IT. Not vice versa

>muh drug, muh illegal activtie
I'm not arguing for that.
But look at what Yours.org did. They went beyond caring about following the law and starting banning people for no reason.
That is an overuse of their power.

Like I said, all the labels and theories and dogmas in the world fall to shit if the people behind them aren't trustworthy.
I feel like we're being psyopped into accepting AI governance.

>>11807104
You don't need new laws brainlet. The purpose of bitcoin is not to evade law, it is to displace and destroy the central banking cartel from enslaving the world financially.

Bitcoin is simply sound money without central banking that can not be debased by commies. You are still subject to law just the same. This is the only way bitcoin can work and has to work. It is neutral money subject to law enforcement.

No criminal paradise for you.

>>11807104
SV is going to win retard.

>>11807276
SV already lost.

>>11806661
block size doesn't have anything to do with how hashpower secures the network

>>11804485
If you think BTC is real Bitcoin then ABC is real BCH
If you think BCH is real bitcoin then SV is the real BCH

>>11807337
Follow his twitter and check his posts form back a few days.

SV will win when ABC ground itself to dust.

Don't like it? STIFF!

>>11807244
> The purpose of bitcoin is not to evade law
> destroy the central banking cartel from enslaving the world financially.
>be debased by commies.
They do this *BY THE LAW* YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102..
https://dailyreckoning.com/the-long-and-sordid-history-of-currency-debasement/
https://seekingalpha.com/article/1100331-a-brief-history-of-u-s-dollar-debasement
The only way out is secession, and make no mistake *THAT IS WHAT BITCOIN IS*
Fuck you if you want to bend the knee and go back to being subject to their extortion. You will not take us with you.

>>11807379
Oh, I see, you're actually retarded. Sorry, I thought you were serious.

>>11807227
That's why Bitcoin is an economic system, not a political system brainlet. It's just sound money without central banks.

Not a political weapon to "smash the fash" by deluded commies like you.

>>11807375
>If you think BCH is real bitcoin then SV is the real bitcoin

fixed

>>11807418
Fuck off, read >>11807386 accept that you have no idea what's going on. You can't stop debasement that proceeds by law except by making yourself immune to law, period.

>>11807386

You really are stupid huh?

It's a two pronged attack on central banking.

One is economic - done through Bitcoin to introduce immutable, sound money that can not be debased. Craig's domain.

The other is political - with the power of law, repeal the kike banking system that enslaves us all. Donald's domain.

Do you think everything that is currently happening is just a coincidence? It's a multidimensional assault on kike control.

I guess you will learn soon. Hope you don't lose all your money in the meantime, because that would suck (it wouldn't).

>>11805365
who is that fat liberace faggot again
i remember how smug he was during the most recent bubble, wanna see his damage control to being totally JUSTed

>>11807418
>>11807379
Man it's sad just how fucking retarded CSW fans are.

>>11807528
This is a nice theory and I hope it comes true.
Can't afford to go all-in on fantasies, but if you're legit then my axe is w/ u.

>>11807528

>craig's domain

You mean alcoholism?

>>11807533
Richard Heart, it's pretty funny, there's a video of him crying, and he's forked a shitcoin that literally tries to steal Satoshi's coins to bribe people.
I think this is the exact moment he breaks down and capitulates
https://youtu.be/w8_1JFE_9dI?t=3585

>>11807528
> DADDY TRUMP WILL SAVE US
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHA
AHHHH
Oh you sad, sad stupid fuck. I'm done talking to you, oh christ, that's fucking hilarious. muh 7d chess, muh csw, muh stiff, REEEEEE.

>>11807669
kek
this is the other side of it.

>>11807547
I will truly enjoy seeing people like you lose everything.

>>11807648
thank you anon

>>11807669

The commies are triggered LOL

>>11807696
Oops, no, this is the money shot where he actually fucking cries.
https://youtu.be/w8_1JFE_9dI?t=4114

>>11807606

Everything will be fine. Read up on Andrew Jackson and what he did to central banks, then you'll understand why he's Trump's favorite president.

>>11807729
> calling an obvious ancap a democrat
the absolute state of SV shills.

>>11807826

Is SV the biggest loser in crypto, ever? even bitconnect had their rise and fall. Digibyte was once a giant. Bitcoin Gold managed a few bumps

SV was behind a huge social media campaign, bragged about re-org attacks for weeks, illegal operations on ABC chain, huge hash power, dev support etc. Then on the day of the fork they

Get BTFO by roger
Fail to produce any blocks for a couple hours
Split the chain ( which they explicitly said they would not do)
Suffer a massive dump
Try desperately to get the BCH ticker but fail

Even now they're accidentally (intentionally?) re-orging their own chain while losing millions in mining. CSW backpedaled and said it's a MARATHON not a SPRINT. Him not realizing that the lower the price of SV the more weight he has to carry on his marathon to failure.

>>11806847
>let's centralize at layer 0 with only the government being able to audit the blockchain

Also lol at thinking Core matters. It matters as much as ABC or SV you dumb autists. The only reason they aren't dead is they aren't relevant, just like you.

>>11807952
Oh look, it's a tmsr cultist fuckhead larping like they control everything. We're all super scared right guys?
Go fuck yourself you sad little nigger.

>>11807826
There's no difference, democrats and anarchists are communists all the same. Same outcomes, different tactics.

>>11808011

>>11807988
Why don't you go to IRC and tell them about how your shitcoin is going to take over Bitcoin? Remember when your idol Gavin CIAndressen politelly asked about hardforking in there? how did that go? Remember when LukeJR when there? how did that go?

That's right, you don't remember or know anything because you are a 2017fag which is about to lose his money (again).

>>11807939
SV is winning retard. Nobody thought Verr and Jihan would dump so much Bitcoin to keep renting out hashing power. They are losing a fortune and they can't keep it up. Smart money is accumulating SV, we will see $300 by the end of November.

>>11807802
Andrew Jackson was great.
If Trump does the same, that would be great too.

>>11808111
Why engage with pretentious deluded psychopaths? As irrelevant as they think the rest of us are, plenty of us are content to stay completely in the shadows knowing they're just as irrelevant. You can wave your dick around like a sad little degenerate blowhard all you want, and we will just ignore you.

CSW RAPED ME WHEN I WAS DRUNK BACK IN HIGHSCHOOL

>>11808248

no

risk, finance

>>11808241
If you bet against BTC, all I can tell you is good luck.

>>11808268
kek

>>11808455
If you're literally trying to turn the world into hell, all I can say to you is I do not give the slightest fuck what you think and view you only as an argument for compulsory sterilisation. You are the lowest scum in crypto, lower than bitconnect, lower than even the fucking kikes at blockstream, and I'm done talking to you or ever even acknowledging your existence ever again.

>>11808455
Hahaha segwitcoin hahaha

>>11808156
Comfty, I don't even mind being down a lot if I do it supporting the real and true bitcoin