/biz/ - Business & Finance

Look what this retard said yesterday. He said gold limits people investing. As if the greatest expansion and wealth creation in human history didn't happen under a gold standard from the 19th century to mid 20th century.

It's almost as if you retards think there was no technological innovation until you could trade your jap and chink coins on binance

dude... enough with your spam
go take your meds

>>11524076
I'm doing this for me. The more people realize the solution to everyone's problems is a gold standard the sooner income inequality goes away

>>11524049
>And the PROBLEM is rising prices...
rising prices are not the problem you nigger

>>11524072
>It's almost as if you retards think there was no technological innovation until you could trade your jap and chink coins on binance
well it was nothing compared to today's trends that's for sure. we are making more progress in a decade than back then in a century.

>>11524203
True..... I'm not even saying that there hasn't been an acceleration in technological advances once going off a gold standard.

BUT...

We've outkicked our coverage debt wise and now there is going to be an enormous bubble bursting that will crush millions.

Also think of all the capital wasted on govt spending and govt employees that could have progressed the nation even further.

All the innovations, investments, and inventions that will never come to be because that money was wasted by the state and not in the hands of productive citizens.

It's literally a human tragedy.

>>11524180
Rising prices aren't the problem? Then why the fuck you investing in shitcoins? It's because you can't "make it" otherwise because of rising prices and inflation.

>>11524087
I was in a thread of yours earlier this week. Got another question.
How do you see a transition back to the gold standard working? Is there a good source on someone who has an idea of how this would happen? Would thousands/millions starve in the process? Surely we can't just hop back on after 80 years of using fiat.

>>11525303
Let the goyim die. We need a nice cleanse.

Crypto and gold backing aren't mutually exclusive. Crypto's benefit is in how difficult it is to censor transactions.

>>11525270
>Then why the fuck you investing in shitcoins?
because even if prices didn't rise i still would want more money faster anon. i want at least $500k preferably more and only have $125k on present value obviously when you calculate expected returns you deduct the inflation rate and so you can calculate with present value conveniently.

>>11525373
I'm not saying that that isn't a benefit of crypto... I'm not anti crypto. But crypto does not solve the problem of debt and RISING prices.

Most of the reason people invest in crypto is to make 100-1000x gains because cost of living is going up so much to impossible to "make it" otherwise.

So you are a 37 year old boomer making 60k a year.... even in lower cost of living areas that's not enough to be comfortable. BUT if you were making 60k a year in 1981.... that would have been like making 180k a year today (roughly)

>>11525303
One day we will wake up and gold will be revalued to 10k -100k per ounce to purge the debt from the system. Gold will start flowing into the treasury and currency issued. Something like that.

A lot of people will be fucked yes....but you buy that 10 ounces of gold so when the flippening inevitably happens you can now buy an apartment complex housing 200 people with that 10 ounces of gold which cost you a paltry 13k to obtain in the fiat paradigm.

That's how it works. If gold trends upwards over the next 2 years to say.... 3k per ounce.... I will A. Not be happy with that happening and B. Def won't be selling.

The dollar value of gold means nothing.

Gold going under isn't the same as a stock going up BUT profits from stocks going up need to be converted to real money gold before a fiat collapse.

But it's not even like you need to put all your dollars into gold considering it may end up being a while off before this translation happens but you need to have at least 10% of your net worth in gold or silver at all times.

>>11524049
Buying gold is heavily policed and you're likely to get the cops crash at home for a bullshit excuse, take it all as "evidence" and you'll never see it again.

Yes cryptos are a cop-out. But unless you know a place where you can buy gold perfectly clandestinely, what other options do you have?

>>11525303
Also........ I think what will end up happening since we don't have any gold in ft Knox is...........

I think the east is stacking gold and America is stacking silver. Which ends up being a clean reset then because the gold to silver ratio is like 80-1 which is outrageously Out of whack. Historically it's 16 ounces of silver equals 1 ounce of gold because that's the ratio it comes out of the earths crust.

So there will probably be a deal between west and east. Raise gold to say 25k per ounce.... and resetting the gold to silver ratio back to historical norms so then America will gain enough to bring us into equilibrium with the east gold holders.

>>11525527
It's. It hard to hide and the fact that you think it's heavily policed and will want to be taken from you is literally a better reason for holding some than any reasons I've given.

Stop fearing the govt.

>>11525562
>the fact that you think it's heavily policed
I don't think it is. That's a fact. Most countries require by law to give your identity to the seller so all gold can be tracked so the gov can leech taxes off it.
Gold works only if the gov doesn't know you have it, so buying it legally is asking for trouble and 2 ingots worth of it in your possession is akin to have a target painted on your back for what I described above.

It's not about fearing the government, it's about taking the proper and required precautions.
Shaming people for "fearing" the government is about the same as asking someone to go pull a lions tail while nude. Fucking retarded.

>>11525651
>asking someone to go pull a lions tail while nude
i would do it for 1 btc tho

>>11524049
I really, really do agree that inflation is literally stealing

>>11525760
Its fucking theft. Its treason. People should be swinging by the neck from an old oak tree behind the courthouse. What they have done is akin to genocide. They suck the life out of people through debt, taxes and inflation.

Fuck the government I am going full crypto/silver/gold. I dont care if I catch 2 bullets to the back of the head, I will die a free man.

>>11525519
>>11525548
what is your ratio of gold:silver owned? what percentage of your net worth is currently in metals, if you don't mind me asking?

>>11525760
no it's not you retard taxes are tho. inflation and lottery are a tax on stupid. you can easily avoid both.

>>11526027
70% silver 30% gold

Half my net worth

>>11524049
Get rid of private banking.

>>11526030
Inflation makes everyone poorer. Sure it sucks most for someone making min wage.... but someone earning 50$/hour today is a lot worse off than someone making 50$/hour 25 years ago

>>11526160
>Inflation makes everyone poorer
only the suckers that keep cash under the pillow.
people that keep their wealth in real estate or securities are immune.

>>11526160
the guy that got $50 an hour 25 years ago now makes $100 i don't understand your problem really.

>>11526438
The problem is the guy making $50 today is actually paid $28 from 25 years ago for labour worth 50.
How do you not see how it's a problem? It's a fucking rip off.

>>11526510
so they guy who used to make $28 is making $50 while prices also went up with about the same ratio over time... i see that's horrible. it's like he actually has the same purchasing power. wow.

>>11524049
>A gold standard EQUALS low prices. And the PROBLEM is rising prices... something that crypto does not solve.
> something that crypto does not solve.

if you dont buy 100% premined coins like nxt only (ripple and similar where the owners own all coins and distribute over time as they want not count), its your fault.

Between this and next year bitcoin inflation will be 3.70%

>>11526359
Real estate! What happens when you need to run.
Real estate goes to 0.

>>11526603
Few points.... and hear me out....

Yes.... wages are or have been rising as well, temporarily it was fine.... but now it's getting out of control. I mean why do you think the middle class has shrunk so much compared to 30-60 years ago?

A min wage earner in 1964 made $1.25... or 5 silver quarters. You take those 5 silver quarters to a coin shop today you'll get about 16$ for them. So a min wage earner back in the early 60's had the same purchasing power as someone making roughly 16$/hour today.

So a min wage earner in the 60's could EASILY have rent and his essentials covered. Today 9$/hour barely puts a shitty roof over someone's head let alone other basic necessities, right?

And my PROOF of this is there was no such term as "income inequality" being yelled about in the 60's. But today... once off the gold standard for 40 years.... Income inequality has become a top 2-3 issue nationally in elections.

>>11526359
That's where you are fundamentally wrong. Gold IS WEALTH... and has been WEALTH and MONEY for milennia.

I understand you can invest in lots of things brainlet.

But the QUESTION is.... why is my supposed "money" losing value when it is underneath my pillow?

I earn 20$ which was a good weekly salary in 1918. I place it under my pillow for 100 years.... and then I decide to take that 20$ from underneath my pillow.... and all I can buy with it now is lunch at a bar. Yet 100 years ago it was a good weekly salary.

What is happening? Why does that 20$ buy literally 98% less today than it did in 1918?

It's because the Jews controlmte central bank and are stealing everyone's wealth through inflation.

>>11526603
You goddamn moron
Assuming same job, the guy who used to make $28 is making $16 now.

The kikes have been hoarding all the gold at low prices in order to decorate their third temple for their messiah (the anti-christ).

>>11526936
Wages will keep up with inflation until they don't brainlet.

You still aren't answering the question dummy.

Why are prices rising in the first place?

If prices weren't rising than wages wouldn't have to go up.

If prices go down that means everyone becomes wealthier.

Why don't we have a sound monetary system where prices don't inflate?

You know why? Because we got away from the constitution. Only gold and silver shall be legal tender. And if you start fcking around with Jew fiat money then everyone gets fucked just like everyone in the country has been getting fucked for years.

>>11526852
Inflation adjusted wages have been flat since the 70s. That's a tragedy in itself, because worker productivity has continued to increase since then, but it has nothing to do with inflation. Inflation in the 50s and 60s was much higher than the 2% we have today, but inflation-adjusted wages were still rising.

>>11526936
My bad you were agreeing with me

>>11526991
Deflation leads to shrinking economies. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why. You're not exactly richer if you're now out of a job.

>>11526995
the wages purchasing power growth separating from productivity growth has nothing to do with inflation tho.

>>11526995
Give me a real dude on th 2% inflation.

I just bought shredded cheese in the refrigerated section of my grocery store and it was 4$.

The middle class in the 50's and 60's was enormous. Now there isn't a middle class in comparison.

Govts have been clipping coins and fucking the people through currency manipulation for thousands of years.

Our founders understood this which is why they put in the constitution only gold and silver shall be legal tender. And since get for away from that everything is now fucked up

>>11527005
>+50% = -50%
No wonder shit hits de fan with people like you. Next you're going to tell me usury and infinite growth are desirable for the economy.

>>11526936
>Assuming same job, the guy who used to make $28 is making $16 now.
what the fuck are you smoking?

>>11527021
Do you want Lower prices or higher prices?

Why cant we have a gold AND silver standard? So your dollar is redeemable in both gold or silver. THere is enough of both to meet the demand for money, wheras if its just gold there would be too much deflation

>>11527056
Unless you're living in a wood with your big pile of cash under your mattress, you really don't want non-productivity induced deflation.

>>11526030
it is theft when its engineered inflation. the government literally controls how much inflation there is

>>11527093
that's like their job

>>11527050
Not meaning he's literally making $16 you retard. It means his $28 are worth now what would be worth $16 back then, meaning he actually earn less for the same amount of effort.
Assume two positions within the same workplace. Say a cashier and his manager.
Manager earns more than the cashier, he's happy about that.
Fast forward today, the manager still get the same numbers on his salary, but what he can buy with it (purchasing power) is as bad as what the cashier could afford back then (and the cashier now is even worse off).

It's not rocket science FFS. You dumbasses see number that are basically the same but not the value attached to it.

>>11527050
Look dude.... this is an indisputable fact.....the middle clsss was much bigger in the 60's than it is today.

Reason for this is your dollar buys less than it did back then.

PROOF- when min wage was $1.25....an ounce of gold was 35$. So a min wage worker could purchase an ounce of gold after only 1 week of working.

Today.... min wage is 9$ and gold is at $1,200. So a min wage worker today has to work an ENTIRE month before he can purchase that same ounce of gold that a min wage worker could purchase only after a week of working.

Min wage workers in 1964 were markedly better off than min wage workers are today.... that's just a fact.

And proof of that is the term "income inequality" wasn't even a thing anyone ever said in 1964. While today.... once off a gold standard.... "income inequality" is a top 3 issue.

This is such simple stuff to understand. It's crazy you guys are so brainwashed. Hence why there is no "right to education" in the constitution because the founders understood is govt was involved in education they would end up as brainwashed as you all are

>>11527107
its only a recent thing. inflation should be determined by market forces, not the government

>>11527093
It's not theft. It's a stealth tax. And you are WELL AWARE of the tax, so put your money somewhere that you aren't taxed.

>>11527083
So you want to earn 100$ today.....and it only being able to buy you 94$ worth of goods in a few years. So you want higher prices so you can buy less shit?

You realize that thought process means you are living in the twighlight zone right?

You actually want higher prices.... think about how fucked your head is to actually want higher prices.

>>11527122
Bingo. Inflation can't be controlled by man (Jew). Free market forces must control it and you have a beautiful economy for everyone

>>11527113
Good thing min wage earners of any era are actually buying food and other useful stuff rather than shiny metal.

>>11527137
Thing about how fucked it is you can't understand a basic point of economics 101. Lmao.

>>11527122
when inflation was determined by market forces it caused a lot of problems. especially in the interest rates for loans. it's not a fucking accident that inflation is kept at roughly 2-3% empirical evidence shows it to be optimal it keeps the economy going lending going and still provides stable enough purchasing value for the currency so that people don't drop it like a hot potato.

>>11527137
Inflation drives spending and investing. If you know you are going to lose purchasing power you are more likely to use that purchasing power now or invest it. Both of those things drive the economy.

With gold (or a gold backed currency) people sit on their money. They don't need to spend it or invest it, as the money will be worth the same amount a year later. Gold backed economies are stagnant / slower growing.

You end up with the same purchasing power years later in both economies.

>>11525344
We need the kikes niggers and muzzies to die off.

>>11527156
That's the point retard..... they didn't have to buy gold or silver because the DOLlAR WAS FUCKING BACKED BY GOLD.

My example is just fucking showing you that everyone is poorer since going off a gold standard. And when on a gold standard min wage earners weren't screaming income inequality because prices were cheap as fuck and making 10$ a day was more than enough for rent and necessities.

>>11527151
Free market is a lie. There is no such thing as unregulated market without having collusion to manipulate it to the interest of a few (especially long nosed).

>>11527171
Real economics is market set interest rates, gold standard giving value to the money, and no income taxes, so the economy and not theiving govt can grow.

You were lied to inyour Econ 101 class.

>>11527110
>It means his $28 are worth now what would be worth $16 back then
statistics show that to be not true. wages kept up with inflation in purchasing power pretty closely.

>>11526893
Yes, central bank policy destroys savings and favors investment.

The people that come out on top are people who borrow/raise money (loans/issue equity) and invest in productive assets.

The problem with this is that it creates a dynamic to sell people shit they dont need in order to service the payments on the debt incurred to acquire those productive assets, using any means possible.

So most people get suckered into buying a lot of shit they dont need to keep owners of productive assets solvent through a variety of measures, including consumer loans and high pressure sales tactics. These people end up working well into retirement if they dont obtain a good pension.

>>11527113
>Reason for this is your dollar buys less than it did back then.
actually no the reason for that is simply concentration of capital. all that money is not at the top 1%. because when you assess and manage your risks poorly you lose money. which 99% do.

>>11527217
What? We don't have a free market now. Here's a quote from Thomas Jefferson... what he says here is literally what's taking place right now.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson

>>11527253
Jefferson of course fails to note that if a bank seized control of a country, the easiest way to remove its power would be... a standing army. Jefferson wasn't the brightest person in the world.

>>11527229
Not anymore! Not saying it was that bad for a couple decades. But now "income inequality" is a top 3 presidential issue.

So what temporarily worked doesn't work anymore.

Which is why a min wage earner was more than fine in the 60's but a min wage earner today is completely fucked

>>11527229
What statistics? I can tell you without looking at them they were manipulated to lie. I've lived long enough to see my purchasing power crumble, drop your Orwellian shit. I won't buy that blue is read because some kike asshole manufactured some misleading stats to "prove" it. A fucking baguette costs 3 times what it did 20 years ago.

>>11527194
Also I was wrong.

Gold was around $35 an ounce in 1967. If you bought an ounce it'd now be worth $1233.

$35 invested into the S&P500 with Dividends reinvested would currently be worth $3136.

Inflation since 1967 is 655.8%, so that $35 would have purchased you $264 dollars worth of goods today. Don't keep your money in the mattress.

>>11526359
Enjoy your property taxes goy

>>11527252
Dude..... the money is losing purchasing power. That's a fact. If I earned 10 bucks in 1964 and held it in a drawer until today.... I can buy way less with that 10$ today than when I earned it in 1964.

If I took that 10$ back in 1964 and kept it in silver quarters and held it to today I can still buy the same amount of shit today as I could back then.

Why is this so hard?

I shouldn't be FORCED to put my money into the stock market to beat inflation. I should be able to earn 10$ in 1950 and have it buy the same amount of shit today as it did 70 years ago

>>11527253
>What? We don't have a free market now.
The point is that if we did, it would only be a matter of time (a short amount too) for a corporation to seize control of it by hold off assets (creating need, provoking inflation) then sell for a huge profit without adding to productivity.

A free market can NOT work unless the world revolved exclusively on individuals that never ever band together to apply any kind of pressure to others. Needless to say, it's an utopia. And only idiots believe in utopias.

>>11527328
YOU ARENT FUCKING UNDERSTANDING!

35$ price of gold going up to $1,200 just means that the dollar has lost value!

You didn't get ANY RETURN at all! You earned 35$ for the week in the early 60's which was a decent weekly salary.....you put it into a gold ounce..... held it until 2018.... and you go exchange it for $1200 in fiat AND YOU STILL HAVE A GOOD WEEKLY SALARY!

Do you fucking get it now? Putting your wealth into gold stored your value for 55 years and you can buy the same amount of shit today as you could 55 years ago. But if you just held that 35$ in paper dollars for 55 years you can't buy nearly as much shit today as you could back then.

How can you fuckibg idiots not process something so simple?

Also I get that you can invest... and make a good return. But buying gold isn't an investment your just storing your wealth so inflation doesn't destroy it!

So your telling me that if I don't want to fuck around with my hard earned money in the stock market that I'm just supposed to get poorer? I can't just save my money or at least save 50% and invest the rest?

>>11527409
Then just buy your shitty rock and fuck off. Who cares. There is no guarantee either that people in the future won't wise up and dump gold because it's inherently (near) worthless.

>>11527328
Also... do you understand that as a gold owner myself that I do NOT want the price of gold to go up like a stock goes up?

I own gold and I HOPE the dollar price of gold goes back down to 300$/oz. if I had a magic wand and I could instantly change the price of gold to 10k per ounce or 300$ an ounce I would choose for gold to go back down to 300$/oz

Since the only reason I buy gold is because fiat is a scam and the govt is out of control. A 300$ gold price would mean the govt is becoming fiscally responsible again and not out of control anymore.

AND a 300$ gold price would mean all prices would drop so I wouldn't lose in real terms anyway.

>>11527409
That $35 is worth $264 today. The gold is worth $1200 and the investment is worth $3100.

Your argument seems to be about wage growth, which I agree is an issue. But I would actually attribute that more to the influence of Milton Friedman than I would inflation. If companies gave a shit about anything but making money for share holders wages would grow.

I get what you want though, you want your $10 to always be worth $10, even 1000 years from now. Personally I'd like economic growth and people to be incentivised to spend and invest and companies actually give a shit about their employees.

>>11527434
Dude I'm trying to help and break the jew propaganda that has infected your brain. A gold ounce 900 years ago is that same gold ounce in 2018. Doesn't matter if the fucking dollar exists or not.

When you buy gold at $1,200 and it goes to 7k/oz you didn't make any return at all... all you did was maintain your wealth. SAVINGS

Gold is SAVINGS.

>>11527458
The numbers are a little off dollar wise because there has been a lot of fuckery going on.

Let's use a longer time frame. 1918 a good weekly salary was 20$. 20$ equaled an ounce of gold.

today 20$ buys you nothing but that gold ounce is $1,200 and still a good weekly salary.

I understand putting that 20$ in the stock market would yield you more fiat 100 years later than exchanging that gold ounce for fiat 100 years later

But comparing gold to stocks is apples to oranges.

You compare the dollar (money) to gold (money) and the dollar has been destroyed by Jews and central banking over 100 years.... while that gold ounce still is a good weekly salary today just like it was 100 years ago

>>11527458
>If companies gave a shit about anything but making money for share holders wages would grow
How would it with a currency that keeps plummeting. Augmenting wages is a cop-out. The problem is that the currency keep dropping in value, forcing people to work more and companies to produce more. That's our current economic model, "Infinite Economic Growth". Produce and consume always more to compensate for currency getting less valuable. It's basically a ponzi for the sold benefit of the top of the pyramid, the (((usury bankers))).

>>11527458
Since when does a gold standard keep people from investing and spending?

In fact.... it is vital to get gold now because there is no savings and when the debt bomb explodes the people who will make out like bandits are people with real savings

>>11527458
You are basically thinking purely in a fiat paradigm which me and you grew up with and it worked (temporarily) but now we are way outkicking our coverage.

We learned false economics to benefit the state and the bankers who control the state.

We are literally 20 trillion in debt and literally nobody talks about investing in gold.

Go ask some dumbshit banker money manager how should I invest 100% of my money and literally none of them will advise keeping even 1% in Actual physical gold

>>11526129
holy fuck kys already

I thought you were just trolling everyone

>being this retarded

>>11527646
He should be in 100% silver so when the ratio drops he switches to gold and swims in it like scrooge mcduck

>>11527646
Holy fuck what? What's the issue with my distribution and % of net worth?

>>11527840
That's why I'm more silver but you don't want to be without gold

>>11524049
i'm more invested in gold silver than crypto for obv reasons

>>11524049
>something that crypto does not solve.
This is how I know you don't understand crypto. What you goldbugs need to grasp is that this is the reason crypto exists. It is a better form of gold which is electronically transmissible and impossible to confiscate.
That's it. That's all it is. If there's a fork or chain that isn't this, then it's not crypto.

>>11528522
>crypto was created to replace gold

They can co exist. Also with silver it has commercial uses that will make it rarer aa time marches on.

>inb4 asteroid mining
Fuck off zoomer.

>>11529332
They absolutely can coexist, million to one odds on the chances of a bug in the elemental construction of gold through stellar nucleosynthesis as opposed to the chances of a bug in a random crypto chain with the its heart in the right place, letalone the endless torrent of flat out scammy shitcoins and hijacked sabotaged nonsense like BTC.
Being in both precious metals and crypto is sensible diversification of risk, I didn't at all mean to imply that gold is now worthless because of legitimate crypto. They're complements.