/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11458507
If your employees don't want to work for you there is a problem, if they take thirty minutes out of the day to themselves, is that not just a personal break? lmao I would say you're doing things great OP

Because if the guy just care for his daily tasks done its like a dog that will just do things if he is ordered to, he will never do something by himself and as a manager/owner its a waste of resources if you compare a worker that do his tasks + something by himself to one that just do his tasks.

Imagine the guy as a Mercenaire, he just do things that he is ordered to, he doesnt care at all for your business.

>>11458507
I eat almost all of my hours. I work in public accounting and usually work 10-12 hour days. However, I almost always just bill for 8 hours.

>>11458531
>>11458551
So if I have my employees do 10 tasks in one day, and they complete those tasks while occasionally chatting/checking phone/etc, there's something wrong? Frankly, I don't see the issue here. My employees come in everyday and get their work done. Wouldn't making them do more work be just as bad as them "stealing time"?

>>11458636
Bro, attention is attention.

You can drive your car and get to your home.
You can drive your car while browsing cellphone and get to your home too.

The difference? The attention and effort you had,

If you were in a place and the driver said to you he would drive the place while using cellphone would you be calm as if he didnt do it?

It's like that, your employer will do the task, but his final result wont be the same as in a full attention scenario.

Isnt to "prohibit" every kind of other action, its for people know that work is work

>>11458636
If you have only ten tasks a day and they ALWAYS complete them why even mess with the process because it clearly isn't broken. I would say you could be the next Mark Cuban OP

>>11458507
wagie workie
wagie no workie me angry jew

>>11458507
There's no concept of time theft in salaried-based jobs.

They're retarded amateurs who feel that they're being cheated if a slave isn't spending every second of its time doing something "productive" while on the clock. It doesn't matter if it's actually contributing to profits in any material way, or if the slaves actually work better with a little freedom, what's important to these cretins is that the slaves are doing "work" at all times. This kind of nonsense is common with idiot small business owners and clueless line managers who honestly expect their wageslaves to care about the company beyond doing the minimum to get a paycheck.

>>11458670
>Workworkwork 24 fucking 7
When will you people learn that this is an unrealistic expectation? If you want a robot, buy a robot. Human beings can’t give undivided attention to one thing for hours on end. There needs to be a break in there. And it makes them more productive to spend 30 bullshitting and work for two hours than to spend 4 hours “working” basically daydreaming pretending to work.

>>11458698
Yeah, I will never again work for a company that isn't results oriented. If my work is meeting expectations it doesn't matter what the fuck I'm doing with my time. its my god damn fucking time!
I'm a remote programmer, and I probably only really work 3-4 hours a day, but when I do work, I'm efficient and get shit done. My employer has no complaints. there's no such thing as time theft...it's mine to own.

It's a mental shift. I don't sell my time...I sell my work.

For the record I “stole” tons of time at my last job and they begged me to stay when I left. Results matter. The only reason anyone cares about this shit is that they have some noseburg breathing down their neck about it. That’s literally it: don’t look idle when your boss’ boss is around.

>>11458507
I think it's more of a management issue. Worker's efficiency is an individual thing, and you need to force things on each worker differently. John gets his task done even if he uses cellphone, but Pedro does mistake upon mistake if he takes a glance at a phone. And what if you have 1000 of them?
Another time companies do that when they have very high rate of workers incoming/leaving. I have worked in such a company (not McDonalds, insurance), the strategy was such: they forced everyone to work with minimal breaks, and they picked the fastest workers and raised the minimal work you have to do for everyone based on their performance. Without raising the pay, of course, that's why I and many people during my time have left.

depends on context

if I'm allowed a 15 minute break that I don't have to clock out for, and I sneak off for an hour, there's obviously some fuckery going on there.. but when you take it to the other extreme and want people sweeping clean floors that are already spotless just so they're not "stealing time" that's also not reasonable

at my job I can literally set up my laptop and play everquest if I want, because they know the job is getting done

>>11459288

Ditto.

>>11458507
All businesses manage time theft by cutting hours of unproductive workers until they either start being more productive or until they quit. Best way to deal with time theft imo

>>11459288
I would always take my lunch 30 min before my boss who always took hour lunches. So I’d shitpost for an hour after lunch while he was out. Free hour

Holy shit how cycles can you get?

https://gentwenty.com/time-theft-workplace/

Apparently much more than I originally thought

>much poor corporation, you are literally a criminal if you don’t spend 8 hours a day glued to your work monitor

Kill yourself

>>11458507
Huh. Only time theft my store really cares about if is you said you were at the store, and weren't, or if you were at the store, but didn't get paid for it.
That's it.

>>11459197
>results oriented
If I'm given ten tasks, and I work my ass off and finish twenty tasks while doing a good job at it, what job would double my pay?

Meanwhile if I drag my feet and just take my time, I get more hours and more money.

>>11460420
Work in sales.

>>11460535
Last time I did that I couldn't make quota cause republicans shut down the government.

I got crippled literally a week later.

>>11459068
this x100

>blinders
>wage cage
>"time theft"

The absolute state of wagekeks ahaha

>>11458507
It's not time theft.
You're paying them to be at work and be in the seat.
If you are a shitty enough manager that you can't provide them activities that utilize their abilities enough, it's on you.
This is essentially the same as getting mad at your office copy machine for not spewing copies 24/7. Or getting upset at your server farm for not switching to crypto mining automatically when there's a lul in network demands.

>be employee at airport warehouse
>supervisor always on the lookout for people doing nothing, as result people do things at a slower pace making it hard to manage unexpected high workloads
>work there for 3 years eventually become supervisor for mail breakdown and other inboud related shit
>tell my coworkers idc what they do as long as the job gets done
>everyone thinks i'm cool as hell, finish their jobs in half the time, always willing to help, during high workloads everyone performs, they even go the whole shift without having a break because they know they might get to chill the next day as long as they finish their workload
>get praise for meeting all deadlines, delivery time never been better.

eventually quit and move on, but it was an eye opening experience, be careful tho, some idiots will try to piggy back on their coworkers like they would even if u were cracking the whip 24/7 the funny think it's more obvious when u give everyone the freedom to manage their own workloads.

>timetheft

I do about 30 minutes of work on an 8 hour shift. What I cant automate in vba I make the interns do. Everything is getting done better and faster than ever and if my wagelord doesnt like it he can get fucked.

If you are "working hard" in 2018 its because you are either dumb or a low class tradie wrench turner.

>>11459068
This.
Sometimes I have to manage technicians and I would never do anything but task-based management. I can't stand the hypocrisy of people pretending they work.

I had an issue like this appear yesterday. I work as a contractor for the coast guard, so I get up early, go lift, since I'm use to that military sechdule. My shift starts at 7. I like to get in by 0645 so I can leave 15 minutes early to avoid traffic.

Well I've been doing this for awhile. And suddenly an all hands email appears to all the contractors stating we aren't allowed in the building until 7 due to the contract. And we need to abide by this, leaving early is not permitted.

Its not the fact they care I'm done with daily work by 9AM, and spend the rest of the day goofing off, but that people are so petty to care about 15mins of not being there.

>>11461515

Preach. I get paid 160k to work 12 hour days and i have about 3 hours work per day, the rest is self education and browsing 4chan.

Working hard for someone else's billion dollar business is a total joke.

my job is ridiculous, some days I literally, *literally*, have absolutely nothing to do. I'm still required to clock in and clock out. I even offered my boss to go part time for reduced pay and they said no, they'd rather have me on hand.

I usually just watch movies in my office on those days, take a 2 hour lunch and go to the gym etc.

>>11461515
>>11461569
>>11461581
>faggots everywhere brag about working extremely little
>quality of everything is going down the drain
really gets your jogging nogging

>>11461626
its basically the free market providing a UBI to anyone smart enough to take it

it's about controlling the wagie. the wagie needs to come begging to you to figure out a task for them to do in order to survive. their life literally depends on their bosses, they would die of starvation on their own. so you shouldn't be nice to them, and should squeeze them for every last drop/fire them if they steal even one minute of time. there are hordes of wagies out there, far more than there are jobs. you most likely need them far less than they need you.

>>11458507
"working" (or at least appearing to work) merely for its own sake is absolute nonsense.

It's something from a bygone era where it was easily to correlate time with actual productive work done - think physically labor intensive jobs.

The problem with this mindset is that it doesn't always translate into modern office work.

>Recently, I was working a problem that was not obvious to solve.
The problem was unusual and bugged me so I stay a little later to try to solve it.
>Been working 8 hours, feeling tired and give up after 30 minutes of genuinely trying to solve it.
>Come in next morning and recognize a good solution after 5 minutes after a clear head and good nights sleep.

Was I "working" those extra 30 minutes? Technically yes, but it wasn't productive.

Focus on less on counting time in the office and more on how to make your time count.

Also, I've found people who are given even a little leeway regarding time etc are more willing to work extra when they're actually needed, rather than pretending to work because things are quiet - this benefits nobody really.

>>11461715
It's partly lazy bosses - instead of actually knowing what their employees are doing, they just make them clock their 8 hours and assume that's good enough

>>11460420
>If I'm given ten tasks, and I work my ass off and finish twenty tasks while doing a good job at it, what job would double my pay?

Hahahahah good one goy

>>11460420
>tying income to time

>>11458507
>only 30 minutes a day browsing 4chan

only people who would care about "time theft" are poor fag retards who care more about effort put in than results.

>>11458636
If youve ever run a business youd know theres always more shit to be done

>>11458679
Very good Daniel

>>11459421
Does green text mean sarcasm? Nufag hoi

>>11461565
Wouldn't there be security regulations about that though? Like if you somehow got fucked up from 06:45 - 07:00, wouldn't that land your employers in deep shit because you weren't evne supposed to be there?

>>11461723
Its entirely this actually.
Instead of gauging how much work is really done, they just assume time = work done and just stop caring.
At my last work place i got penalised for being even 1 min late, even though i actually worked more time because i was the only one who didnt smoke. I quit after 3 mths

>>11458507
>Write software that tracks a users eye movement via webcam along with dns records to determine if a user is "clocked-in"
>watch productivity and morale drop
You're likely correct op

>>11458507
For an hourly wagecuck it's important. For a salaried professional, no one cares.

>>11459197
Companies that are "results oriented" will just work you for 60+ hours a week and keep pushing up deadlines. It's a lot better to be a business owner yourself and bill by the hour. At least you know how much you'll be getting paid per hour. I've seen people work 70+ hrs in jobs that pay $50-60k out of college. They're probably not making much more than $15/hr. These are people with bachelor degrees, and no experience so they can't just switch jobs at will.

>>11463716
>40h a week
>50 holidays a year
I say it's okay.

I get this sort of thing because the business owner is very self motivated because they have a big stake in the company's success and it suprises them that other people aren't as driven.
Of course the problem is the owner doesn't give the workers a motivation, a sense of ownership a sense that hard work will pay off in promotions or the shared success of the buisness. I really think that managers opening their books and showing where the money comr from and promising that more money means more raises helps a lot. Having a vision "when we make it, we're gonna be a chain and you'll run the Eastern division" would also be huge. The problem is most managers just want a wagie who will work himself to the bone for a couple of bucks. And some wagies are the same they just want to show up get paid and go home to do drugs.

>>11463917
>business owners should open up their books
Haha, most "business owners" would sink if they did this because they just arent that competent

>>11458507
I'm a self-employed tradesman who charges by the hour and I've had a client try to claim I'm stealing time from them when I've worked for 6 hours and charged for 6 hours.

Bitch seemed to think I was her employee and she could order me around, and when I'd done 6 hours of back breaking hedgelaying she wanted me to do another 2 of milling around finding little jobs to do to make it a nice round 8 hours.

>>11464100
Nothing more infuriating than a retard on a power trip. Fortunately most of these morons fail spectacularly.

>>11462906
I do actually, and no, there's not. I'm not gonna make my employees clean shit that's already clean or restock shit that doesn't need to be restocked or cycle count something for the hundredth time this week. That's pointless and arbitrary.

>>11462906
yeah this is a lie. this is some manic, anxious lie. Sometimes you've literally done your job and you can take it easy for a few weeks. If you have never found yourself in this situation, there's a chance you're not working efficiently or are overextending yourself.

>>11458507
>only 30 minutes a day at work
rookie numbers

>>11459167
I'm 100% work, and I can't wait for the other humans to get replaced before I do.

>>11465616
You're also 100% expendable. You're just a pawn. Positive that you're only "100% work" because you're inefficient and have trouble getting your tasks done in a timely manner. Have fun killing yourself at work and making the same money as others who do less.

>>11460420
you're doing it wrong. if you're able to do 20 tasks in one day, but are only expected to complete 10 tasks....congrats, you have half a day to yourself.
obviously doing 2x work doesn't double your salary....neither does working 1/2 the time cut your salary in half. That's what's so great about it.

>>11463716
maybe you should re-read my post. I don't work anywhere near 60 hours a week and am never(very rarely anyway) pressed to meet deadlines. people who don't know how to set boundaries with their employer and clearly define a healthy work/life balance have no one to blame but themselves.

>>11465713
>people who don't know how to set boundaries with their employer and clearly define a healthy work/life balance have no one to blame but themselves.
Guilty as charged, I let my employers walk all over me in various ways and it's done nothing but breed resentment and have them take me for granted, so it's even worse now when I try to stand up for myself and say no.

The system works,

If your boss can't see that you doing more and having more free time means your not only better at your job but you also have flexibility to handle tasks when they go wrong...thats ok...you can get a new job and he can get some more substandard workers who have to struggle and work the whole day to finish their assignments with no ability to help others or take on new tasks.

Every employee is replaceable, and every employer is replaceable. Don't forget your employer is also your customer, If they are treating you like shit or not paying you properly force them to find a new vendor for your skills.

If you are actually valuable and actually have unique useful skills that produce value you wont have this problem. The only people 100% replaceable are pushing paper to other paper pushers and attending meetings or stocking shelves or something like that.

>>11465652

This guy (You) is so far removed from having unique or rare skills he literally can't imagine having people who cannot be efficiently replaced.

You probably stocks shelves, or pushes tps reports. Maybe you worked up pushing quality of tps reports on the tps reporters. Either way go produce some value or come in contact with someone who does and tell me you can replace them.

>>11458507
U dont understand how much personal emotion and irrationality managers bring to their jobs

Its disgusting and they all deserve to fail