/biz/ - Business & Finance

did you not watch the movie anon?

It was regulation incentivizing poor decision making, namely businesses being allowed to sell homes to people with fucked up credit that could never afford their purchases. We're due for the same thing to happen again via student loans.

>>11075724
>We're due for the same thing to happen again via student loans.
I thought in the US student loan debt doesn't disappear when you declare bankruptcy?

>>11075690

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu2wNKlVRzE

>I have a feeling people are gonna be doing what people alway do when economy tanks.They will be blaming inmigrants and poor people. (and even teachers)

>MUH POORS
>MUH RACISM

If Hollywood makes X statemnt, then my automatic reaction is to be SCEPTICAL. Further analysing the subject and trying to search a rational and correct alternative explanation

This is why I'm here. Asking you

>>11075724

>It was regulation incentivizing poor decision making
>It was regulation incentivizing
>regulation incentivizing

What exact regulation did incentivize bussiness to sell homes to fucked up credit poor people?

>>11075837
http://archive.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/09/16/20080916biz-CreditCrisisEvolution0724.html

Interest rates were fucked with artificially to make predatory loaning lucrative. This incentivized businesses/banks to make predatory decisions with the thought that the government would pick up the tab on behalf of the poor/stupid.

The same exact thing is happening right now with student loans and also healthcare.

Kill yourself you faggot commie

>>11076571
What a well thought out and intelligent comment.

>>11075837
they knew that they could do this shit and get away with it because the government would bail them out and socialize the losses amongs everyone

>>11075837
>In 1995, President Bill Clinton's HUD agreed to let Fannie and Freddie get affordable-housing credit for buying subprime securities that included loans to low-income borrowers. The idea was that subprime lending benefited many borrowers who did not qualify for conventional loans. HUD expected that Freddie and Fannie would impose their high lending standards on subprime lenders.
In 2000, as HUD revisited its affordable-housing goals, the housing market had shifted. With escalating home prices, subprime loans were more popular. Consumer advocates warned that lenders were trapping borrowers with low "teaser" interest rates and ignoring borrowers' qualifications.
>HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay. Freddie and Fannie adopted policies not to buy some high-cost loans.
>That year, Freddie bought $18.6 billion in subprime loans; Fannie did not disclose its number.
>In 2001, HUD researchers warned of high foreclosure rates among subprime loans.
>"Given the very high concentration of these loans in low-income and African American neighborhoods, the growth in subprime lending and resulting very high levels of foreclosure is a real cause for concern," an agency report said.
>But by 2004, when HUD next revised the goals, Freddie and Fannie's purchases of subprime backed securities had risen tenfold. Foreclosure rates also were rising.

>>11075681
>finantial crysis
Nice try, Rakesh.

>>11076652

Actually I'm spanish

>not listening to the autistic drummer and investing in water
You dun goofd

>>11076632

What is your explanation regarding the european crisis, then?

any good movies that take their suspense from realistic market situations and not from fake hollywood drama

>>11076751
Shit, you in Sarria?

>>11075681
The Federal reserve and entire structure of the banking system has been the cause of every major crisis since 1913

/Thread

The older I get the more I relate to Brad Pitts character. I just want to make enough to get a farm in Wyoming and live in peace.

>>11076781
I don't pay much attention to europe desu.
In 08? Contagion
08 - present? Gov budget deficits hidden with dubious accounting, high public debt to GDP, private debt bailouts in efforts to socialize losses resulting from the housing crisis and subsequent recession.

>>11076870
This

It was da joos. da joos did it

kikes and chinese

duh

>>11076632
And lurking behind all of this is the federal reserve.

When are you faggots gonna realize it needs to be burnt to the ground before we have a sane world again ?

>>11075681
its public info. The criminals are all public. Ben Bernanke hank paulson jamie dimon lloyd blankfein, janet yellen. It was all jews robbing america and giving the money to jews. Bush and Obama are guilty as fuck but they were always tarded drugged up stooges

jewish organized banking criminals asset stripped the USA. Killing jews isnt some nazi crime, its saving humanity from evil

>>11075681
Bad incentives caused by poorly thought out and implemented regulation. Banks were encouraged by the government to make risky loans to the poor/ people who could actually afford a house. They then packaged up and sold these risky loans to each other, while transferring the risk by buying insurance on the loan packages, see AIG. These loans all had to be rated according to regulations, but the ratings agency was just paid off and admitted they couldn't do their job so the ratings were just whatever you paid them to make them.

Before it all burned down I got a mortgage as a 20 year old with like 3 months work experience and no money down. The system was fracked and the mortgage was super high risk, but they didn't care. My mortgage was sold off within the month of it being created.

>>11075748
>doesn't disappear when you declare bankruptcy
It's a good thing.
Otherwise, we'd have hordes of idiots running up the register on 3 worthless degrees apiece.

>>11076632
This is exactly what the student loan issue sounds like too. if you had a high school diploma you could get a $200,000 to go to school and nobody blinked an eye. Now 10-20% of the younger generation has negative net worth and when they all decide to stop paying their loans its game over

>>11075681
Greed. Banks giving out sub prime loans to people who could never afford to buy a house, then packing those loans into a Wall Street created financial product for other institutions and investors to invest in. After a few years, those loans crossed a mark where the interest rates would increase and the payments would be greater to where the payments could not longer be paid, thus defaulting on their mortgage and creating the demise of the financial products going to zero that contained those bad loans.

>>11078385
"Muh greed"

Shut the fuck up boomer

Every fucking brainlet chiming in here like you have a reasonable theory: "muh greed muh Jews muh banks"

stop fucking yapping about all this bullshit until you start discussing the only thing that matters: central banking . Jesus Christ you fucks are absolutely retarded

>>11078279
> Banks were encouraged by the government to make risky loans to the poor/ people who could actually afford a house
>encouraged
It was more like the government allowed them and they jumped at the chance to jew poor people.

>>11078510
>I'M AWFULLY ANGRY AT YOU, GOY
>I GIVE YOU A LOAN YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY AFFORD, OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF MY OWN HEART, AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE DECENCY TO SELL YOUR ORGANS TO MAKE THIS MONTH'S MORTGAGE
>OY VEY!

>>11076751
>Sarria antifa.
Kys you burgoise nigger.

>>11075681
le optimus prime mortages, and incentives twisted by inflation

>its the boom that should make you feel eerie

>>11076904
In short, debt. Which has been incentivized with low interest rates for a decade now. Wonder what will happen----

>>11078279
>These loans all had to be rated according to regulations, but the ratings agency was just paid off and admitted they couldn't do their job so the ratings were just whatever you paid them to make them.

really it comes down to this. regulation failed. corruption and greed allowed the bundling of shit assets as not-shit assets.

>>11078434
someone's mad they don't have a nice wife and house yet.

>>11075837
The Gov and Banks were sued by the Diversity Lobby to make subprime loans as a 'solution' to redlining. And they are doing it again, now as 'nonprime' loans, just a name change.

>>11078627
Mad about a lot more than that trust me.

Doesn't change the fact that I'm right

>>11075681
>Was it market's fault?
Yes. Nobody knew what risk the securitized loans carried, everyone knew it was not sustainable, but every single person loved the music, because everyone danced and no one wanted to stop.

>Was free market laissez-faire responsible for it?
Yes. What is not regulated against abuse(!) will in turn get abused.

>Should the public institutions regulate the finantial market to avoid future crisis?
Yes. Otherwise, it will simply repeat itself.

>>11075810
That part of the movie is correct though. You have on half of the poorfags in this country (white trash) blaming the other half (niggers/immigrants) instead of directing their anger at the Jews and Banks

>>11075681

>>11078744
>>Should the public institutions regulate the finantial market to avoid future crisis?
>Yes. Otherwise, it will simply repeat itself.

So what should we short now to make money? Corporate debt?

>>11075837
Ignore the retards. They don't know the meaning of the word regulation. It was the deregulation and no regulations that caused this.

>>11075810
They arent wrong. A lot of dumb poor immigrants will blame dumb poor immigrants who happen to be a different color or are slightly more newer than they are instead of addressing the source of the problem. Not that I blame them though, its much easier to punch down like a bitch than grow a pair and address your superiors like a man.

>>11075681
Read Peter Wallison's dissent from the official FCIC report.
>Democrat majority: There wasn't enough regulation
>Republican dissent: It was a combination of many factors
>Wallison: Congress forced Fannie and Freddie to take too many subprime loans, creating a huge market for those loans

https://www.govinfo.gov/features/financial-crisis-inquiry-report

>>11080270
Sauce on this? is there are set floating around?

>>11079863
No it wasn't you fucking idiot, it WAS regulations. Specifically the mass Centralization of our banking system through the FED.

every post itt should be discussing one thing and one thing only: THE FEDERAL RESERVE

if you don't actively realize the fed is the problem, you are an NPC

>>11080700
calm down ron paul

everybody with half a brain, who isn't completely cucked by the rich, understands that the 2008 collapse happened because of decades of neoliberal policies removing regulations and oversight from the market

those with a whole brain take this further and realize that the whole thing was basically by design and that the biggest offenders made out like bandits even after the house of cards collapsed, because that's how capitalism works in practice as opposed to theory

nationalize everything desu senpai

>>11080700
I cannot wait for their QE ponzi to come crashing down on them. It will go down as one of the largest financial disasters of our lifetimes.

>>11080737
the banks only did what they did because they new that they would be bailed out by taxpayer money and QE. kys

>>11080674
Papa Johns

>>11080737
Shut the fuck up, we don't live in a capitalist system, the last time we did was the time from when Jackson eliminated the second bank of the US to the civil war.

We actually live in a corporatist oligarchy, and the regulations you speak of, I imagine you jerk off to glass steagall on the daily, are shit tier political bullshit BANDAIDS that are placed on top of an inherently shit fiat Ponzi that let's banks:

1. Seek rents and maintain their power regardless of shit decisions
2. Privatizes their gains and socializes their losses
3. Transfers power from the people to a ruling class in Washington without direct taxation, making everyone else a poor fiat wage slave


All the other bullshit every low Iq autist is positing itt as the cause is literally a derivative of the above, and if you don't see that you are a fucking retard and don't belong in crypto. Fuck off back to plebbit and go suck off Sanders

>>11080757
what about the banks that literally ceased to exist? don't be stupid.

>>11080775
everybody has heard this nonsense before bro, you're probably not old enough to remember how big ron paul was on 4chan

pointing to the fed as the star around which all our problems orbit shows a piss poor understanding of history, economics, politics, basically everything you're trying to proselytize about

you even pulled out the old "we don't live in real capitalism" trope. fucking kek, try reading a book other than end the fed

>>11080778
They werent important enough to survive. If jpm or citi had trillions in liabilities the fed still would have bailed them out

>>11080812
I have read a laundry list of books on the subject you fucking brainlet, I also went to Caltech

You don't understand a single fucking think about non linearities, Centralization, pareto distributions, rent seeking and ergodicity, how the fed came to me, etc etc etc

Please suck me you fucking brainlet, Sanders cucks like you are un-ironically why we are in this mess. You keep voting for the same bullshit over and over and keep clouding the debate by blurting out arguments you don't understand the implications of, allowing the bankers to keep raping us all

>>11080838
Be*

Also anyone who supports the sort of nationalization you're talking about is literally a low test low iq pussy. You're like fucking sheep and I un-ironically hate you more than the ruling class that run this mess since at least they have intellect and balls to make out with profit. Socialist Worms like you are literally like cattle that politicians herd into pens as you bleat about "muh regulations" which mutilate humanity

>>11080838
>name-dropping terms to seem like you know what you're talking about
>i went to caltech and thats why i shitpost on /biz/ about ending the fed

okay i lol'd

unironically read marx, kid. i promise it doesnt make you sick with communism cooties

>>11075748

It still doesn't mean they are able to pay the debt.

Also, I think it defaults in something like 25 years?

Which one of these anons are right?

>>11080867
>Name drops a literal coping bourgeois jew
>Understands nothing about antifragility or human evolution, why communism is a giant coping mechanism for weaker males and women that isn't even desirable in an ideal world

Rsad the Unabomber manifesto you fucking cuck, read Darwin, read nietzche to understand how badly you're coping with your own insecurities and inferiority, how you want the government to save you from being the shitstain you are, how fuckwits like you voted in the progressives, the fed, allowed women to vote giving us these massI've unsustainable fucked up social welfare programs, all regulations that are going to end up literally destroying the human race through the Centralization of risk. God fucking dammit I would kick your ass to a pulp if you were in front of me. Slave moralist cucks like you have castrated mankind and lead to the complete financial collapse we are about to experience, and you actually are retarded enough to think you're right.

You need ideal genocide. Fuck off back to plebbit you dickless fag

And yes, I did go to Caltech and YES, I *do* understand the history and math behind this discussion much better than an autistic boomer like you ever will

>>11075681
Every single crash is caused by leveraging too much. Some people fuck up which fucks other people which fucks other people and on and on. Next crash is coming before or after (if Trump lucky) the next Presidential election. The tax cuts delayed this but it's coming. The market is overvalued and it needs one small push for the dominions to fall.

Screen shot this.

>>11080935
>Rsad the Unabomber manifesto you fucking cuck

is this satire?

>>11078383
no, the loans can't default
If they don't default then the e.g. Collateralized Debt Obligation (CDOs) in which they are in can't go bankrupt this way. At least in the fashion of going bankrupt.
Of course you could argue when the credit is going to default if you can't get rid of it.
Can you actually inherit the student debt or is there any way that your children can get rid of it ?

>>11080935

Remember this is the price of capitalism.

Corporations have no morality nor humanity. Thank you free markets!

>>11080956

I'm under an impression there has always been some kind of a mechanism that made debts like student debt default after 30 years, which was changed to 25 under Obama.

I'm not sure if it's some kind of way the debts were forgiven or if they just defaulted. I might be wrong on this however and would like to know if such mechanism actually exists in the USA.

>>11080940
Yeah for sure. Right now, theres a lot of corporations overlevered. If you compare cash equivalents to corporate debt and subtract a few companies out with large cash balances like Apple, Google, etc, companies are levered like crazy, partly because of low interest rates and an imcrease in buyouts.

>>11076809
true.

>>11080956
In UK they get cancelled 30 years after one becomes eligible to repay (earning >23k per annum)

>>11076632
this

>>11080952
No. It is un-ironically one of the most intelligent and lucid dissections of modern liberalism and how human inferiority complexes have destroyed mankind in existence.

Just because Jefferson owned slaves should I ignore the declaration of Independence? Just because the Unabomber sent bombs to people should we ignore the truth of what he said?

It's Friday night I'm going out to fuck some sluts. Enjoy shitposting from your.mothers basement you communist plebbit neckbeard

>>11080958
I agree there needs to be extremely strict regulation to protect trhe environment, in fact what has caused corporations to do this is the fact that WE DONT HAVE FREE MARKETS YOU FUCKING RETARD, WE HAVE A CORPORATE OLIGARCHIC GOVERNMENT PROTECTING CORPORATIONS AS PEOPLE THROUGH BULLSHIT LEGAL CONTRIVANCES LIKE "MUH CORPORATE PERSONHOOD", UNIRONICALLY TURNING CORPORATIONS INTO QUASI STATES

We haven't had a true free market in over a century.

>>11081015
>in fact what has caused corporations to do this is the fact that WE DONT HAVE FREE MARKETS YOU FUCKING RETARD

Free markets is like communism. We'll never have real free markets just like we'll never have real communism. Anyone trying to say otherwise is a brainlet.

It was caused niggerloving democrats forcing the financial industry to give niggers home loans and like the niggers they are they bailed on their payments like the niggers they are and they really niggered up the market.

>>11076751
Hi, fellow Spaniard.
Madrid, reporting in.
Nice ancap symbol.

>>11080979
Well they stay even if you go bankrupt in the US.
If you die they will be waived if they are federal loans (https://studentloanhero.com/featured/what-happens-to-student-loans-when-you-die/)) which means that the loans default but it all happens on the federal budget which is basically infinite considering the fucking niggersupertron high ceiling debt and endless raises of it.
Private student loans are different but for a normal human there is no escape depending on the contract

>>11080952

You know the Unabomber was literally a genius right?

>>11080956

Your kids obviously cannot inherit your student debt

>>11081015
It's like a race to whether "WE HAVENT HAD TRUE CAPITALISM" or "WE HAVENT HAD TRUE SOCIALISM" is trotted out more often as an excuse

>>11078318
no if they could default then the rates would skyrocket and college might actually get affordable again since nobody would be able to get a loan anymore

>>11078170
End the Fed.

>>11078617
Really boils down to Federal Reserve backs all the banks infinitely so none of them are responsible for their decisions. If banks actually were to be held responsible like they were in the 1800's they would make better decisions. No regulation is needed. Just remove the Fed and let the market run its course.

>>11080952
Unabomber could legit see the future. Keep in mind he had to get the message out in the days before youtube; bombs were all he had. His predictions have all become true. He predicted the loss of dignity and privacy and the rise of machines over people. His conclusions were that we should abandon tech and go back to nature which I dont agree with.

>>11078434
>reddit spacing
>tries to evade accusations against jews

mmm how do ya do fellow white man? fuck off shlomo

>>11081409
He's right though. This issue stems from the monetary policy of central banking. Not your bank down the street. The Federal Reserve, but yes the central banking was brought to the U.S. by the Jews if I recall correctly.

>>11081460
By Paul Warburg, from kuhn and loeb company.

But it was mostly wasps who designed and supported it once he gave them the idea. Believing it was some grand Jew conspiracy to start off with is retarded, the original central bank (bank of England) was literally conceived designed and created by wasps

>>11081471
Yea that's who I was thinking of. Paul Warburg, but I agree. Silly to blame the Jews. People just need to realize the cancer that is central banking.

>>11076809
(((The federal reserve)))

>>11075681
The jewish sebbatical year caused it.

>>11081460
Yes, central banking plus the fact that jews on wall street are robbing your country fucking blind.

Central banking + jews on wall street + jews in washington = us taxpayer getting bled to death.

BUT ISHRAIL IS MUH GREATEST ALLY

>>11080748
>It will go down as one of the largest financial disasters in history.

Fixed.

>>11076605
>Implying commie faggots are worth debating

Anyone else amazed by what's happening in America? I mean like 60 years ago they used to broadcast documentaries about fucking up commies if they see any or know any. Now communist ideas are being spread throughout American colleges and universities. How the fuck is that even possible? Same thing with homosexuals and minorities. HOW??? IT'S RECENT HISTORY FOR FUCKS SAKE!

>>11081974
It's pretty scary. Had a friend who went a float trip and met a guy who was an assistant professor for communism or something like that. This faggot defended Mou Zedong and Joseph Stalin like they did nothing wrong.

>>11081974

The legs finally fell out from religion in the US outside of isolated pockets. Now (((secularism))) has risen to fill the vacuum of belief and explain why there's evil in the world. Turns out it was the United States all along (with Europe as a very honorable mention), and white people in particular, purge them all and the utopia is within our grasp! Forever!

>>11075681
>jews
>1 of 11 matches
>Replies 95
rookie numbers

>>11082044
>>11082053
Have you guys seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk
Everyone knows that top Russian government is still KGB.

>>11082133

I like Yuri, I'm not totally sold on the idea of him not being an agent after his escape but he still has some worthwhile things to say. Especially when he talks about James Bond vs. cultural subversion in intelligence agency work, I think he's spot on. I think it's more likely our "leaders" co-opted KGB methods than being taken over by Russian intelligence directly, though I'm sure Putin is smiling to himself whenever he looks at the MO of the US.

>>11082053
the problem with secularism is not only that the state becomes the arbiter of morally good or morally bad actions but that, more importantly, the state has no such right to reign over the spiritual realm, only the temporal realm and only the temporal realm through the permission of the people it governs.

>>11081243
>nobody would be able to get a loan anymore
You do know who backs these loans, right?

>>11075810
LOL
nobody blamed niggers
everyone knows that the banks fucking imploded shit

>>11075681
Nassim Taleb's take: https://www.researchers.one/article/2018-09-16

>>11076751
well that explains a lot, i was just marveling at how that happened but laissez-faire is spelled right

>>11075681
> KYS
> DYOR
> Watch Movie
> BUY BCH

>>11080737
This dumb ass didn't take Econ 101, and doesnt even realize the difference between a pure capitalism and oligarch-corperatism.

>>11080812
Try living through communism, retard.

>>11076632
Niggers and jews.
Pottery

>>11080952
'industrial civilisation and its future' by kaczynski might be the single best political manifesto of the last century

the securitization of debt

bumperino

>>11080700
This.

>>11080737
Neoliberalism is literally about a bunch of jews in the highest spheres vampirizing society, the only purpose of its policies can be summarized by "banks lending money created out of THIN AIR with INTERESTS to people".

>>11080700
>writes Fed as FED
>thinks he's not an NPC
lmao

https://truthout.org/articles/after-five-years-report-card-on-crisis-capitalism/

>US capitalism changed in the 1970s. The prior century of labor shortages had required real wage increases every decade (to bring in immigrant workers). In the 1970s, many capitalists installed labor-saving computers, while others relocated production to lower-wage countries. Demand for US laborers fell. Simultaneously, women moved massively into wage work as did new immigrants from Latin America. The supply of laborers in the US rose. Capitalists no longer needed to raise real wages, so they stopped doing so. Since the 1970s, what capitalists paid workers stayed the same. Meanwhile, computers helped labor productivity to rise: what workers produced for capitalists to sell kept increasing. Surplus value (and profits), therefore, soared (stock market boom, rising financial sector etc.) while the wage portion of national product/income fell.

>>11086026
>By making these changes, US capitalism provoked a classic contradiction/problem for itself. It paid insufficient wages to enable workers to purchase growing capitalist output. The solution, led by the fast-growing financial sector, was two-fold. First, it cycled rising corporate profits partly into major new consumer lending (mortgages; car loans; credit cards; and, later, student loans). Rising consumer debt sustained growing mass consumption despite stagnant wages, and so postponed an otherwise certain economic downturn. Second, financiers promoted profitable new investments for corporations and the rich (securities based on consumer debts and credit default swaps that insured such securities). Financial corporations displaced non-financial corporations as dominant in the US economy. Financial transactions based on consumer debts built on stagnant wages (the ultimate means to service that debt): those fruits of capitalist decisions brought the “2007 crash.” (What is widely known as the crash of 2008 technically began in the fourth quarter of 2007.) The crisis nightmare began: a cyclical downturn coupled to long-run decline in workers’ purchasing power.

>Lets summarize: (1) capitalists decided in the 1970s to computerize and increasingly relocate production overseas; (2) that enabled them to impose wage stagnation and greatly increase surpluses and profits; (3) financial capitalists lent to consumers and built a speculative bubble based on consumer debt; (4) when rising consumer debts exceeded what stagnant wages could afford, the system crashed; (5) capitalists got trillion-dollar bailouts while lending government the money for those bailouts; and (6) now, capitalists make entire populations pay for the crisis and bailouts by directing politicians to impose austerity. This capitalist system not only fails to “deliver the goods,” it dumps ever-more-outrageous bads.

>>11080838
what's the best you recommend from your reading list m8

>>11080838
>He fell for the pareto efficiency meme
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>>11080952
honestly fren its a good read.

>>11075810
imagine being this desperate to fit in with the counterculture that you start denying reality

>>11083754
>if its not capitalism its communism
why are americans like this

>>11075810
>SCEPTICAL
>"Sseptical"
A 'C' before an 'E' or an 'I' makes the 'S' sound, pajeet