/biz/ - Business & Finance

opportunity

>>10968354
Some interest is necessary to keep up with inflation. The rest is just profiteering off of what should be a public utility. Old timers were smart enough to ban usury, because it moved wealth from the productive to unproductive sectors. There's literally no reason not to just have government run banks, and use those profits to slash taxes on the middle and lower classes.

Convert to Islam. Interest is haram.

you need money.
you dont have money
some one offers to give you that money

should they give it to you for free? no. you pay a premium based off how long it takes you to pay it back. interest.

they make money. you get your money when you need it.

everyone wins (except you)

>>10968354
to incentivize lending. why would anyone lend out money if, best case scenario, they get the money back years later?

>>10968397
>>10968365
>>10968417
what happens when people don't pay back the loan?

>>10968354
Why would I give you my money for free?

>>10968354
Time preference.

>>10968454
They stop lending to you for 7 years while your credit is fucked. I never thought about it before, but 7 is a very jewish number. The Sabbath is the 7th day and they take a long vacation every 7 years called a sabbatical. Just more jew shit embedded into every day life we don't even think about.

>>10968417
you also have to move to a muslim country where its enforced lol

>>10968454
You take their car and television, or break their legs.

>>10968442

what if not living with money surrounded by a rotting shithole was incentive enough?

>>10968507
England sounds nice. I enjoy gloomy weather.

>>10968417

But charging a huge fee upfront for the same service, as long as you don't call it "interest," is somehow perfectly acceptable to them...

>>10968354
the white man

Money now is worth more than money later, simple.

>>10968354

>>10968354
When you offer a loan you take risks. Interest compensates for that.

Risk/reward. Although making people slaves to interest is morally bad.

>>10968442
>>10968397
>>10968422
>not mentioning the criminal kike enterprise known as the Federal Reserve
the absolute state of /biz/

>>10968650
the concept of interest is centuries older than the federal reserve, so i'm not sure why it needs to be brought up

>>10968376
spbp, came here to post this. They removed the parts from the Old Testament (the part of the bible that the jews believe in) that says not to charge usury lol

>>10968376
Literally this. Usury was prohibited in Christian Europe until we let the jews back and allowed them to convince monarchs to use their fractional reserve banking scam to put nations in inherent, continuous debt that can never be paid back.

>>10968354
Usury, which used to be considered a great sin, was limited to non-christians aka the Jews. The jews could practice usury, usually under strict supervision, and we're often expelled for exploiting the local population. Usury is a sin in Islam as well.

Interest pays for time.
I could have had that $100 in my pocket or making money for me. Instead I loaned it to you. Pay me for renting out my money.

>>10968515
>Implying muslims can unjew the west

I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Q mentioned it

>>10968690
False, jews were allowed to lend with interest in christian europe, thats how they got powerful enough to convince the monarchs to begin with.
Literally ban interest on money, thats how you begin to fix this mess. Too bad it will take decades for brainlets to realize this. Look at this book, written 100 goddamn years ago and still 95% applicable today.

>>10968735
the problem is when those $100 are not from your pocket, but literally come fresh from the printing press when you lend them

>>10968354
Why does interest exist?
We'll lets say I borrow a thousand bucks from you for a venture I'm involved in, and will repay you in a year. Shouldn't I compensate you for the privilege of using your money? I mean you probably have better things to do than lend me your money for a year, don't you?

>>10968397
inflation woudln't exist without interest faggot

>>10968354
That's like asking why you have to pay rent to live in a property that someone else owns. Would you ask that question?

>>10968857
Yeah well that's not the problem of interest, it's the problem of a select few people being shareholders of the federal reserve who reap the benefits of loaning a nation its own money at interest. If we had nationalized or competing currencies, then there wouldn't be any reason for a (real, this time) holocaust.

>>10968354
Because if there weren't nobody would exchange current consumption for future consumption and allocation of resources to where they're most needed just wouldn't happen.

>>10968864
when the thousand bucks you are lending are from interest profit of other money you lent, you dont see how this snowballs?
When all business requires you lending them to even get started, or to stay afloat.. who ends up owning everything? Who does everyone work for at the end?

>>10968904

Ok fair point. But what if I gave you money that actually belonged to your neighbor and charged you interest in your neighbor's money? Welcome to banking.

>>10968909
it is the problem of interest, because thats the way that people got into a position of power to establish the federal reserve in the first place. Literally stacking money on money until they had a monopoly on the creation of money. At that point they became almost unstoppable.
When more than half the economy is based on speculation, passive income and interest on existing money you gonna have some bad times when it pops

>>10968837
Nice mustache, I’ll read it.

>>10968936
Technically a savings account is a high-liquidity "loan" to the bank, which it is why it is interest bearing. The reason the interest income is so low is because you have the ability to "call" that loan at a whim, while the bank does not. I'm not sure how that changes anything about what I've said though.

You can take out a loan and never pay it back. Banks woukd fail if everyone borrowed money and bever gave it back.

>>10968837
Trying to discuss this with normies is painfully predictable.

"hurr durr how will the bank cashier get his money from then? hurr durr"

>>10968909
I'm thinking jews will flee from the west once they have ruined it. There they will reside until muslims will smash them once and for all.

>>10968354
There's an argument for flat-rate loans. Like, I give you 10,000, you pay me 11,000 back.

But why on earth would you loan someone money to get EXACTLY that amount back, instead of doing something else with the money that would bring you a profit?

>>10968925
What you're talking about is unintended consequences of technology and individual choices, you might wanna read up "Meditations on Moloch", and essays by Paul Graham.

Nevertheless there is nothing wrong with the concept of interest - if I'm giving you my cash, and you're returning it at a later date, you better make it worth my while. If there is no incentive, why would lending exist? If there is no lending, how can you finance a modern hospital or at an extreme range say a silicon fab?

>>10968484
The only correct answer as long as time exists.

>>10969447
Besides depriving you of your asset, interest is a hedge against never getting your money back, which is why people with shitty credit have higher rates. It's common sense.

>>10969466
There is a common misconception. Interest contains multiple components. In this case, as you identified, yes, the risk involved causes a higher interest rate. However, even if it was predetermined that there would be no risk at all, interest would still take place. Why? Because present money is worth more than future money.

>>10969466
Right. Judging by this thread on /biz, people don't seem to understand why interest exists and default to (its the joos/ the fed) response. Board quality really going down the shitter

>>10969512
Yeah, that's where the "Besides depriving you of your asset" part came in.

>>10969519
This board has been in the shitter since it started.

>>10969572
Anyone remmember iHaz threads? The first verified /biz millionaire and a real rab/biz?

>>10969447
>If there is no lending, how can you finance a modern hospital or at an extreme range say a silicon fab?
you create the money through a state bank and lend it without interest in the case of public infrastructure (schools, hospitals, police stations, roads, etc). You have inflated the currency but the infrastructure everyone can use makes up for it.
In the case of private ventures, there is no reason why it should be funded through a bank which charges interest. The bank is getting fatter and more powerful with time, with little risk because the economy depends so much on it it is never allowed to collapse. They also have monopoly on money creation. Give everyone else this ability then you can talk about interest being a hedge against risk involved.
These private enterprises could fund themselves through investors which own a share in the company and earn dividends only. This would encourage people to save money and invest in private startups, because it would the only way to get funding. Today during 'economic booms' its so easy to get loans, if you dont pay you declare bankrupcy. The bank gets some of your wealth but maybe not enough to recoup losses. The new money which entered in circulations through the chain of loans still exists however, and everyone else pays for it with inflation, like a hidden tax on top of all taxes, which would not be as absurdly high, maybe even to the point they wouldnt even be necessary, were it not for interest on money. The state can fund itself through the revenues of public enterprise, it doesnt really need taxes save for exports/imports and only if such income is strictly watched by the public eye.

>>10968650
What does the fed have to do with this?

>>10968878
Wrong.

Interest is the price of money. The problem is not interest anymore than charging rent for lending anything else. It’s fiat currency and central banks having the ability to create money ad infinitum that’s the problem, all of which is imposed through government mandate. Ban interest and you obliterate money lending which is key to business expansion

>>10969663
inflation would still exist without interest on money, but if production of good and services can keep up with the money entering the system, prices remain stable enough you dont notice it much.
You can have something similar with interest applied on the loans, but you are creating and feeding a class of people which pile money on money adding no real value to your society but extracting from everyone else labour. Where you could have the same functioning economy, and even better, without the need to feed this class of people. They ARE a liability and they are working against YOU.
The amount of loan-capital in relation to productive (industrial, resource gathering, infrastructure, energy, etc) capital in existance is insane.

>>10968740
>mayor of london is muslim
>british prisons are dominated by muslims
I don't even know why I entered this thread, there's no saving britain either way though.

>>10969658
>You get currency inflation but the public goods like hospitals make up for it
Excuse me what

>>10969718
What most idiots here don't understand is that there's a natural interest rate that forms in the market.

Lets say I have $100 and only need $80, I'll think where can I invest that extra $20 that I don't need right now.

On the other hand someone has $100 but needs $120 he will be looking where he can get the extra $20 he needs.

And like in any market where the supply and demand meet you have the price, in this case the price is the interest rate.

>>10969718
>Ban interest and you obliterate money lending which is key to business expansion
NO, you can grow your economy way better by not charging interest. This way you allow business that is essential to your country to flourish and become top priority, whereas business dealing with finances and speculation would become riskier. You make human resources (productive people) concentrate on whats actually important. Thats why your country (USA) is going down the shitter, you sent all your factories overseas and brought in cheap third world scum to occupate your remaining low level jobs, while the rest of the country focuses on meaningless services and speculation. Your infrastructure is decaying and so is the rest of your country. It only takes one thing to set the wheel of a new working economy in motion, abolish interest on money.

>>10968354
You are paying rent on property. Most pipo have no problem with lease payments on property in their possession, but when someone charges rent on cash they sperg out with dajoos.

>>10968354
simple interest is fair, its compound interest that's complete bullshit

>>10969796
i know this must seem like magic thinking to you burgers, so used to your flawed ways. You bring money into existence through public funding of projects everyone can enjoy later.
There is two ways of approaching this. The state lends the money and charges no interest, the public 'enterprise' (lets call it like this be it a school or a hospital or whatever) may charge a little for their services to repay this debt. Once the debt is paid, the state has funds to lend to other project, without adding new money to the supply.
The public enterprise can then fund itself with what it charges (it would be semi-private).
The other way is the state keeps funding it and ask nothing back. This would make it 100% public.
Money has entered circulation, but new services free (or with little) charge can now be enjoyed by you and your family. Translate these concepts to the entire economy (most important in production) and you wont ever notice inflation due to the increase of cheap and free products and services.
This is a sort of planned economy and your country is brainwashed against it, because you always studied such in soviet/socialist countries post war, which never abolished interest on money.

>>10969855
For people who actually make their payments on time, there is zero difference between simple and compound interest.

>>10969803
Exactly

>>10969814
>your country (USA)
Implying I live in the USA
You don’t know what you’re talking about you utter retard. Please go read The Use of Knowledge in Society by F.A. Hayek, it’s only 13 pages or so. The law of unintended consequences is the one thing you can never repeal, and by banning interest it would require a massive overarching government to control. If you are concerned with inflation and the debasement of money, see how real wages diverged from GDP in 1971 right after the Bretton Woods system got repealed. Also, you have to be 18 to post here too

>>10969872
>a Keynesian cuck emerges
I remember thinking politics and economics was just like playing a strategy game too; just place the right people, the right resources at the right time and everything is okay and dandy. Little did I know, especially when I actually met politicians myself

>>10969902
>it would require a massive
whatever it takes to finally get rid of you leeches. You dont have a clue about what productive people are capable of once they grow tired of your bullshit money games. Kys retard

>>10969945
yeah we know such people as you are easily bought into their ways with a big fat stash of money. Im not keynesian, what we need today to fix this mess has never been talked about because it needs use of today high tech

>>10969949
>t. frustrated commie nigger
Okay, it’s bed time, friend.

>>10969949
Just curious... what country are you from, and what do they significantly contribute to the world?

>>10969958
Holy shit you’re literally 16 or a nigger who voted for Bernie

YEP

>>10969872
It sounds like what ever government trying this policy would run into a liquidity trap due to their funds being tied up in few projects. The concept you mention here does happen in burgerland in the form of grants. But they are small enough not to harm liquidity.

>>10968417
Used to be under Christianity too

>>10969960
>everyone i dont agree with is a commie
you ancaps are so predictable, always the same arguments. Its no surprise you defend interest on money, you are autistic parasites like the jewish authors you love reading

>>10970003
>same arguments
>no rebuttal
>only lefty ass pain

What colour is fedora you’re wearing as you type this?

>>10969991
the state doesnt just lend to anyone, only the most vital and prioritary projects. It isnt tied in few projects because there are many things to be done to improve a country infrastructure. That means unemployment goes way down too. The fact it doesnt ask for the money back, or if it does, it does so without interest is the key aspect. Because its not profiting from it therefore it isnt making the state more economically powerful in the process, but the society at large. It makes the country, not the state, more powerful.

>>10969996
Not entirely accurate in the way you said that. Back in the day, people only borrowed because they had nowhere else to go. It was survival. These days, people are putting their shitty ass VIZIO TV from Walmart on credit cards and eventually paying that off a year from now. Huge difference between want and need here - taking advantage of someone's bad situation(usary) vs financing a fucking retard(not usary).

>>10970023
rebuttal to what
>you are a commie
>everything which isnt left to chaotic free markets is communism
just stfu already faggot

If a risk-free asset (US T-bills) are paying a rate of 2-3%, why the fuck would I lend to you (a risky enterprise) for anything less than that, or realistically bake in a risk premium on top of the risk free rate to reflect the risk inherent in your ability to repay and charge you like 5%?

>>10968376
Literally this

>>10970037
>>10970003
>>10969958
>>10969949
>>10969872
>>10969814

Fucking hell I honestly can't believe there are people this retarded, and in a business board. This fucking retard can't even understand supply and demand..

>>10968837
>False, jews were allowed to lend with interest in christian europe
Until they got kicked out (which happened a lot). My point was Christendom prohibited it. Once the Jews were allowed back in to the major western european nations again though, they began to get a stranglehold on the banking system. During the Englightenment period and the effects of the chaos of the French revolution is when the Rothschilds devised and spread their central banking fractional reserve scam, and began to dominate Europe with it.

>>10970101
This individual obviously doesn't know the first thing about business or finance. Not even sure why they're here.

>>10970037
O.K. that in no way is how states raise money for projects. They either budget and collect taxes to build this infrastructure, or they issue bonds and repay them in the future. In no way is it clear where the state is getting this infinite supply of money to just give to public projects. In any scenario employment is going down due to the deadweight loss caused by higher taxes.

>>10970101
how does abolishing interest on money affect legit supply and demand. Go ahead and explain genius

>>10970101
I know, it’s wild. Apparently seeking compensation for lending out resources in a voluntary manner is evil and Jewish but his omnipotent government of Plato’s philosopher kings is just great
>I bet he doesn’t even know about the economic calculation problem
>or the knowledge problem for that matter

>>10970155
im not talking about current states, but an hypotethical state funding projects without charging interest. Once these projects are up and running and funding themselves, the money the state gets back from them (without interest) can be used for funding other projects. You dont need to tax your population.

>>10970179
our current technology can get close to solving the knowledge problem. I never talked about completely centralizing economic planning, it can be done with input from parts of the population that know their shit because they got the experience to back it up, in a decentralized, yet public fashion

>>10970163

>>10969803
Use your fucking brain for fucks sake

>>10970205
well if you give free access to everyone to give loans, they will expect to earn something by doing so. This is not how people should get funding. Want a new TV and cant pay for it? Too bad, get a job. Need funds for starting your business? raise through standard methods, dont ask the bank for a loan. We've seen with crypto how easy is to raise funds these days.
Wanna make money with money? Invest in productive business should be your option. Not lending money and charging interest. If you lend someone money and he spent it in hookers and blow, you're not adding value. If you lend money to business and earn dividends (similar to interest) you are adding value, cause that business is either providing a service or producing, adding value.
See the differences?

>>10970182
So in hypothetical state the government prints a whole lot of money (unless they magically have some other source of getting all the money). They hand out the money to projects that may or may not be successful or take time to complete. They lend the money interest free even though it could take the projects 50 years to pay back the loans. So in order to finance other projects while the old projects are being paid back the government prints more money to fund those countries.

Can I take a guess that your country is Argentina?

>>10970192
>outsourcing the knowledge problem on computers and tech
You literally didn’t fucking read Hayek’s work because he specifically attacks you idiots who worship science and technology as the savior of all things. All the calculators you have set up to run your take on the economy are to be themselves designed by the same fallible and self-serving individuals.Did you just finish watching the Zeitgeist trilogy yesterday or something? There is no chance you can be this unhinged and autistic

>>10970252
Or worse, he is the dreaded t*rk

>>10970252
No, they're from the US, despite prior comments against the country. It's pretty clear at this point.

>>10970262
Machine learning will create better tech.

Although ((they)) are trying to censor that too. They call it "fairness in machine learning". IE how do we blind the eyes of a god

>>10970262
>being so mad at something you dont understand
keep worshipping the current economy. Its like you people think this is the natural, logical progression of things in human relations. That everything is the way it is for a reason and there is no possible better way of doing things.
If you understood computing, you'd realize the unlimited potential. Your models are outdated, in the information age everything changes, because knowledge becomes the new currency. You probably hold big stacks of gold and are scared shitless of an economy that completely ignores it.
Zeitgest lmao, those talk about resource economy and redistributing wealth globally. Yes they put emphasis on tech, for a reason. It is what actually solves problems. It is what has improved the life of the west, not your economic plans, not interest on money. The people responsible for sustaining our modern world everyday, are not rewarded even a fraction of what the finance speculators earn, its is ridiculous, but i know which band you're on so of course you will never agree with me.
In the end all we have is theory, and historic examples are subject to way too many variables to draw permanent conclusions

>>10970311

And you think these super computers will be able to distribute resources more effectively? They would need to somehow constantly survey everything and collect subjective preference, turn into objective decisions and execute those decisions. I think supply and demand has that covered just fine

>>10970353
>worshipping the current economy
>implying I do
>implying I don’t want to the gold standard to return and cease the endless money creation
Stopped reading right there. Sorry my fellow t*rk, but you have school tomorrow morning to wake up for. Night night

>>10970353
>socialists
>technology
They have an inverse relationship. Only capitalist areas create new tech at any real rate. Check out China's Special Economic Zones.

>>10970393
Pretty much this. Our t*rkish fedora-wearing science computer master doesn’t understand. Sad!

>>10970252
wrong, it would hand out the money only to those that prove they are apt enough to complete them. Add to it the public eye on what these funds are being spent on, and there is extra pressure to bring them about.
Whatever it takes to pay back the loans, the state would be getting such money from multiple projects, enough to fund other ones.
If it needs to print more, it prints more, whats the problem? You will see your country explode in infrastructure, lot of jobs, cheaper everything due to no taxes and an actual national industry. You need to get rid of leeches though for this to work, no welfare, etc.
Argentina is not a good example because of massive welfare system and massive debt with interest.

>>10969759
no, there's no inflation when you don't use jew paper for money. inflation for the first 150 years in the US was like -0.6%

>>10970393
yeah nazis sucked so bad at tech, the US govt was fighting with other nations for their scientists and engineers. They were true socialists, btw, not like those jew commies. But its all the same to you people so whatever

>>10970385
i knew you were a goldfag, pretty obvious. Stuck in the past, afraid of technology rendering your shiny metal worthless

>>10970415
you only notice inflation when prices increases. Price increase isnt inevitable when using fiat

>>10970437
>advanced technology renders precious metals worthless
Are you retarded or just pretending? Asking for a friend

all the faggots opposing the abolition of interest on money are afraid their leeching ways would come to an end. They would have to actually get off their ass and put some real work and really contribute.
They are not smart or driven enough to start their own productive business, so they resort to finance speculation and passive income. Your ways are ending this century, starting with your masters from which you learned everything, the jews.

>>10970466
keep stacking that gold, the new economy will not need it. You will be paid industrial value for it, maybe a plus cause it will still be used in jewelry but no longer piled up to be used in economic crisis. Then you will have to start a real business faggot

>>10970470
>working class people who save money and invest it to preserve their purchasing power are bad and evil capitalists ooga booga, be scared!
>a massive government clamping down on interest, which is nothing more than the price of money, is good!
>trust me, I’m not just a jewish socialist who hates your economic freedoms!

Okay, this is epic

>>10970484
>he doesn’t know the purchasing power of gold has remained steady as every fiat currency goes to its value of zero

Oogabooganomics 101

>>10968422
this.
It's a quantitative expression of the function of risk over time. Interest is essentially the price of money.

>>10970503
>interest is the price of money
kys you piece of shit. You know how many things were considered money before your precious gold? Nobody can claim whats the price of money, that is agreed upon by the people that agreed to used such system.
If we dont agree to give value to gold anymore, guess what, your 'money' is now worth shit. Many things will lead to this happening.
You dont even see the flaws in a gold backed economy, that allows interest on money, with a limited supply of the basis of its currency.
>>10970514
No it hasnt really, you can get the same as 100 years ago with same amount of gold, but production has increased so much, what you are getting isnt as valuable.
Ooganomics 101

>>10970470
I'm coming around to your point, but I think you're arguing it poorly. There's a huge difference between lending as a means to add value(as most corporations are involved in) and consumer lending. Unfortunately consumer lending has gotten out of control. Interest itself isn't the problem, it's bad behavior.

You argued here >>10970247
"Want a new TV and cant pay for it? Too bad, get a job."

Your problem is not with interest itself, it is with the ease at which people can borrow money for bullshit things that create no value and only consume.

>>10968504
That's because it's in the old testament from the Christian perspective you retard

>>10970561
>Nobody can claim what is the price of money
except they charge money for the borrowed money, which we call interest. This has got to be one of the biggest trolls on biz to date

>>10970562
its more than the consumer lending, its basing your entire economy on debt and interest, which establishes a sort of plutocracy. You can argue these people are smart and deserve such position, i argue they have not earned it honestly, and they are not the most apt for ruling because they have placed so much importance to finance and getting richer that they have ignored their societies degrading in the process. Its like they live in a bubble where all that matters is profit, yet reality is they know well the consequences of their acts, they just dont care. So if not caring is made philosophy, then a way of life, what kind of society will you inherit.
The consumer problem IS solved abolishing interest. If people are stupid and want what they cant afford, only harsh measures can make them see reality. Then they'll realize they need to cooperate and everyone benefits, and if they put their share of work to upgrading their society, they can easily afford the TV and more. But its easier to rely on loans, welfare and get wasted on booze right?

Interest exists because lending out money comes with risk, aka a non zero chance of not getting it (all) back. Without interest lending out money would be negative ev and thus stupid to do (except if you don't mind losing money, for example helping out a friend).

>>10968376
This and only this

>>10970591
And thats the fucking problem you retard and why im arguing for a DIFFERENT way of doings things

>>10970619
>The consumer problem IS solved abolishing interest.
I think that's what you're missing in your argument. When you say "abolish interest" you really mean "abolish consumer lending", which are inherently two very different things. Abolishing interest in itself suggests that you can still borrow money (for either a good or bad reason) with no premium attached to it. You might want to refine/clarify that thought.

>>10970619
crypto is a bit like these. Imagine if your shitcoins were national and you were speculating on them, to the point 90% of the country was trading shitcoins. We know in trading more people lose money than win. Congrats 10% of your country is way richer now, but at what price? The rest is now poorer, they wont buy your company products cause no money. What if this 10% spent their profits on drugs, expensive cars, mansions, losts of imported exotic stuff. Are they benefiting your country?
Now if this 10% invested in more factores, more power lines, etc. Thats good, but does your society work that way? I dont think so..

>>10968740
>implying muslims aren't just a tool used to drive out whites in their own countries

>>10970656
Yes private consumer lending would not be encouraged.
Im mostly talking about mass scale lending, you know the big bucks, with interest attached to it. Im talking about the giant debt issue.
What i mean with abolishing interest, is doing away with the act of making a profit through lending someone your money. Since you say whats the incentive then, or that nobody would lend without profit, you are right in a way. There is risk involved. So instead of people taking these risks personally, you socialize them. Not with taxes, but in the process of money creation. The state takes the risk when funding, knowledgeable people give their input on which projects make sense and wont fail. Its not completely centrally planned. Understand?

>>10970656
>>10970716
and by this i dont mean a person can just go to the state bank and get a loan for their TV with no interest. The demand for products MUST be natural. If you allow this, the demand grows disproportionally to the capacity of production to satisfy such demand.
So you need a very capable population working good jobs and earning well to reach a natural demand of products, that consumer lending is currently artificially creating. Thats what you want.

>>10969658
this smacks of socialism. While I am not against socialism, I hate modern socialists because of the bullshit that is attached to it. This is another thread that belongs in /pol/ and was likely created by ShareBlue or Media Matters.
Everyone fuck off; I'm trying to think.

>>10968354
The problem isn't in the tools. It's in the people. Ban sociopaths, psychopaths and control those tendencies from society else they will find another scam from the usual religion, usury, and tyranny that they fall back to. Jews are a red herring that address only the symptom and not the root.

>>10968376
This

>>10969814
fucking retord

>>10970800
To add, decentralization through common goals and culture rather than balkanization would be a viable measure as well as the constitutional system that divided the various powers as a transition to the decentralized state.

>>10970716
I get what you're trying to say, but I still have a problem with the approach. How many car dealerships offer "0% lending", but you know on the backend they are building that interest into the cost of the vehicle. I'm not sure that abolishing interest in itself is enough to discourage lending in general. I remember not too many years ago under Obama when there were talks about trying a negative interest rate to promote economic spending. Thank god we never got that bad. As far as state decisions, I don't know if you're actually in the US or not, but we have a pretty clean track record of fiscal irresponsibility and even borrowing from unrelated accounts (in every level of government) to cover for overspending in another. We could take the approach of getting input from multiple sources and investing properly, but that will never happen. It should happen today even though we have a borrowed economy. They aren't going to smarten up if we just take it all away. The main problem is that we have too big of a federal government that thinks the same problems that apply to California are shared by Maine. Europe doesn't have this problem nearly as much because the EU doesn't rule over their constituent countries as much as the US does over individual states. It's a false equivalency. Consumer lending aside, we do have a huge management problem where everyone wants something for nothing and the federal government is a reflection of that.

Having said that, you are receiving flak because your wording says that we should lend money for nothing, not that you are talking about the problems with unlimited deficit spending. You need to be clearer on that.

>>10970788
well you are right, its called national socialism. But there is so much stigma to that word these days, that its better to give it another name already. Its also a bit outdated on the economic aspects and needs rethinking

>>10970821
yes english is not my main language so im trying my best. Im not against lending per se, im against profiting off it regardless of what the money is being used for. For example, say a cocaine dealer gets a private loan, he will be able to repay it easily. The company, bank or whatever lending the money IS profiting off his deals. Is it improving your country? Just by facilitating credit? What is it then spending his profits in? Is it benefiting your country?
As i said, if you wanted to lend and profit from it, business that produces real value should be your only option. You are lending money, and you get to choose where it goes.
You wanna speculate on useless crap? Casino for you.
No interest on money, no private banks.

You know the current economic system is shit when it needs regular manipulation to keep it from collapsing.

>>10970872
burgers dont notice much the flaws of their system, because it was practically born there and implemented in the rest of the world. So they are at the top. Its like buying BTC at $1, you dont give a shit about the crash from 20k to 7k, you're still way up. But the rest of the world gets fucked. You are getting fucked too, but are so comfy you dont care or notice. Well it doesnt last forever cause these money power elites have existed for centuries and once done with your country will probably move their center of operations to Asia.
You are good people but your crap has gotten out of hand. Deal with it and stop thinking about money and profits for a day

>>10970872
it is far easier for the valuable business to borrow money than the cocaine dealer, more people want to lend to him and will do so at far better rates, the risk determines where the money wants to go

>>10968376
THIS

>>10968878
Good

>>10971014
what if the cocaine dealer is also the business owner? How do you know what the lent money is being spent on, if private. How do you know, what the private entity lending is doing with its profits? Maybe its giving money to those sjw groups around your country?

No more ancap rhetoric? You know your ways are dishonest and flawed. Come join the good side

>>10971045
Well you determine all these risks through your thorough DD, prescribe whatever terms you want and potentially agree on an acceptable rate. People spend the money on cocaine all the time, it is called embezzlement and they go to jail.

>>10968354

Because you will pay it.

>>10968624
Thats a dangerous assumption