/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10582636
>owning a house is renting longterm

>not buying in cash

>>10582703
>not holding bitcoin cash

>>10582636
I own my tv, thank you very much.

My parents came to the USA 23 years ago, during the housing boom mind you , and rented the entire time. Now we are of course dirt poor. Fucking 50 year old millenials.

Only poor fags buy. Buying a house is buying kike bags.

>>10582636
>he doesn't realize that paying taxes, mandatory insurance, and HOAs are essentially renting

>>10582636
Jokes on you. I am living with my parents paying half of the mortgage. I get back whatever we payed, plus the house increase of house value when we sell.

>>10582636
Not everyone needs that much space. Unlike most incels on here, I like socializing with other successful attractive people so I live in a luxury apartment in Marina Del Rey

>>10582636
its not even worth buying right now if you wanted to, at least not if you're going to have a 25 year mortgage

you literally pay for the house twice over when you add up the interest and the principle, like if you buy a $400k house on a 25 year mortgage you pay almost $400k in interest to the bank over that time. Plus this is arguably the height of the real estate market and we may see a crash in the not too distant future which would make it an even worse investment.

The only reason you should buy real estate is if you're reasonably certain it's going to exponentially rise in value in a ~5-10 year window and you can flip it for huge profit.

>bought 7 years ago or so
15 year mortgage
50% of the house paid already
house prices are booming

ya, id say its worth it

>>10582887
>$400k house
what is wrong with you people
I bought my condo for $60k

>>10582872
>Marina Del Rey
how is living on a boat working out for you?

>>10582921
either a boomer or a shithole

>>10582872
larpieeeeeeeeee

>>10582815
>paying insurance, taxes, and HOAs just for someone else to build equity

>>10582976
bought it last year, close-ish suburb of a large city
2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, kitchen with modern appliances, balcony
5 mins from work, 5 mins from airport, 15-20 mins to downtown even in meh traffic
good (non-chain) chinese, burger, and pizza places within walking distance if the weather is nice
above-average school district, below-average crime
really the only downside is the noise when a really big plane takes off from the nearest runway, which isn't that often, and almost never at night
fight me

>>10583031
Which country/state kek

>>10582872
>renting an overpriced condo
ISHYGDDT

>>10582815
Take a HELOC on your rental... oh wait... you can't

>>10583028
rentcucks never understand they're still paying for that shit even if they're not directly paying for that shit
and even if the owner/developer was getting some sort of sweetheart tax deal from the city/county/state/whoever, you really think that money is getting passed along to YOU?
even if my condo doesn't appreciate one single cent between buying and selling, it will still be worth it over renting

>>10582703
Is this retarded? Im really trying to figure this out

>>10582921
In Detroit?

>>10582872
The larps are getting less realistic by the day

>>10582636
>Boomers have failed to secure the future generation.

>>10582636
If your smart about it and invest your savings properly...renting for the rest of your life is fine. Never have to worry about repair cost, never paying the bank interest and a Roth IRA with 300 a month investment from 30-70, you can retire with 3 million in cash.

>>10582921
>I bought my condo for $60k

Lol enjoy your rent I mean HOA's lol You don't own it anyway.

>>10583077
>HELOC
lol... Yeah, I'd like to borrow MORE money (and pay back MORE interest) for a thing that I simply can't afford.

With the $30K initial down payment saved up (that I didn't have to blow on a house), I was able to invest @12% earnings and so I don't need a line of fucking useless credit, where I have to pay interest to a bank you fucking retard.

There are faster ways to grow your wealth than sinking money and costs into a shitty wooden structure

>He's buying a house right before the housing market crash

>>10583145
>12% earnings
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

>>10582636
> t. brainlets who don't understand basic finance, i.e. the time value of money

>>10582921
>buy condo
>HOA is $85/mo
>year later, they raise it to $110/mo
>they said because home prices fell and they wanted to keep pricing at the same level to try to keep the same type of people there
why they scammin me

>>10583082
theyll say stupid shit like maintenance, taxes, insurance, and HOA results in negative cash flow

that's why real estate investors multiply their assets while the rentcucks are slaving away building the landlord's portfolio

I just paid of my mortgage at 30
Feels good to be honest

>>10583163

>>10583145
yeah like paying someone else to live in their wooden structure and not getting any asset in return

>>10582636
>is a fulltime Graphic designer
>Not being paid 25 30 hour
>GM pays 17 an hour
>Been working there for 5 years
>GM cuts my hours
>Instead of working from 8 to 4 everyday
>It's now 8 to 2
>fucked me over 10 hours
>Not gonna do high quality work for them on the same day.

>>10582815

This is true, but you get equity as opposed to jack shit when you rent

>>10583156
who cares, you're still gonna own a physical house

a year later and all the rentcucks will beg you to pay higher rents

>>10582636
>tfw paying $650 a month to live in some shithole in the middle of nowhere with horrible internet

>>10583208
>not getting any asset in return

I actually get mobility, which increases my professional connections, which increases my income+net worth

Homes don't appreciate very quickly, everyone knows this. I'm actually able to put more money into different investment vehicles and grow my money faster.

>>10582658

>retard alert.

You can't resell a place you don't own to put against a down payment.

tfw you're essentially renting your license to work from the government from birth to cradle.

>>10583191
>HOA

is this some American meme? You have to pay some jews just to own your own home? How does that even work?

>>10582636
>"Investing" in a home
The stock market outperforms the value of a home by a large margin, by putting that money into a home rather than investing it you are losing money, and that's not counting thing like HOA fees, insurance, property tax and cost of repairs.

>>10583145
Doesn't understand the concept of using leverage to buy more properties to rent out... stay poor my friend

>>10583363
>willingly being a landlord
ewwwwwwwwwwwww

>>10583156
If you can wait, you probably should...

>>10583091
Yes it is

>buying the top of a housing bubble

>>10583091

Depends on the interest rate

With rates as low as they are it doesn't make sense to buy cash since the risk adjusted return on the money saved will outweigh the cost of interest

>>10583222
this is only a valid argument if you're buying the property in cash outright. if you're taking on a 25-30 year mortgage (as many normies do) you barely get any equity for the first 7-10 years, seriously your monthly payments would be like
>$900 interest
>$45 principle equity
plus you're responsible for all repairs, god help you if 5 years in you have to replace the roof or have any structural/foundation damage. Property tax is usually a couple hundred (or much more) per month as well

>>10583363
ok, mr. real-estate millionaire. Please show us how you've mastered the art of leverage and own MULTIPLE PROPERTIES

>>10583362
no, because you're spending money on rent instead of the mortgage which won't go towards your investments

>>10583307
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association

What they do (and should do) is collect money to take care of common property (pool, clubhouse, certain landscaping, etc) and enforce rules to keep one house from dragging down the value of others nearby (not mowing your yard, not keeping derelict cars parked in front of your house, etc etc)

But they inevitably get hijacked by helicopter moms and cranky old people with nothing better to do, and they end up making dumb rules like "no flags on poles except the US flag" or "lawns must be kept exactly two inches long", crazy shit like that
because suburbia makes people do stupid things

>>10583259

>He thinks you can take shit with you when you die
think about what you are saying faggot

>>10583445
>Land of the free
>Some cunt can tell you how long your grass is

sounds like hell

>>10583423
interest rates are lower than inflation

there's no doubt that homes are liabilities and not investments if you're not renting them out, but it's the better alternative to rentcucking

>>10583445
i use to think it was shit. Now that im a boomer i get pissed off about my spik neighbors having 5 toyota corollas parked on their grass.

>>10582905
I imagine plenty of people saying the same 2007.

The people who harp on about housing being superior may be right but i very much doubt the margin is substantially larger.

People tend to forget that if the roof gets damaged or the ac blows out, you're on the hook for that. And, youre less mobile than a renter who can drop everything and move for a higher paying job.

Buyer may he better, but most times people don't consider all the factors

>>10583473
its actually good. Keeps the trash from fucking up the neighborhood. see here>>10583479

>>10583444
>spending money on rent
Less than the mortgage, the difference between the two is the retard tax that you dumb asses flush down the toilet.

>>10583490
And you pay for the privilege? Why not just have a rule that you don't have to pay for?

>>10583495
and who enforces the rule? the cops?
The HOA does. They can fine you and put liens on your home until you fix your shit

>>10583492
Rent is usually the same as a mortgage though
But to entertain the concept, if the equity I build is greater than the increase in payments from rent to mortgage, then I'm still better off.

And at the end of the day, landlords are going to demand high profit margins. You don't win with high time preference.

>>10583518
How does the money help rule enforcement?

>>10583456

Property tends to increase over time.

If you own property yet still owe on it, you can take mortgages

If you own property is looks better on credit.

If you own property the payments you make on it is ultimately returned in resell value.

You don't have to be dead to sell a house you still own money on and come out on top.

Fucking tard, but thats why you will always be poor and be a rent-cuck.

>>10583519
The are a number of online calculators which run the numbers. There's plenty of instances where it spits out that it's better to rent than own. In the recent past, I'd wager 90% of the time it would say buy versus renting. Id also eager those odds are lower now

>>10583552

https://www.millennial-revolution.com/rent/bought-house-back-2012/
>I find it hilarious when people say “the majority of your portfolio came from your savings not investing. That has nothing to do with not buying a house.”
>Wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with NOT buying a house.
>Would we have been able to save and invest that much had we bought a house? Nope. The costs would’ve eaten up OVER 70% of our gains!
>Clearly they people that chant “House! House! House!” do not understand the real costs of owning a home.

>>10583524
Cause they can seize the property.

>>10582636
>buying a house then getting fired a year later and not being able to find work in your area so you lose your house and can't afford to move and lose everything

>>10583569
They can't do that without money?

>>10583524
nobody works for free. You ever see those guards that get paid 9 bucks an hour checking cars before they go in? HOA pays for shit like that. Why is this hard to understand?

>>10583552
are you going to live forever retard?

>>10583580
they dont have a leg to stand on. When you move into the neighborhood you agree to all that shit

>>10583565

>Clearly they people that chant “House! House! House!” do not understand the real costs of owning a home.

>>10582658
There's no place in america where you can rent a property for anything less than double what the property taxes + maintenance would be if you owned it. And usually it's close to triple.

>>10583582
Because I'm not american I have no concept of paying some jews just to own my own home

>>10583597
i think you are 16 and just trying to be edgy. Wait till you start paying taxes.

>>10583579
Nah, i just paid of the mortgage, thanks for your concerns though

>>10583606
No, I don't live in America, I own my own house in the UK and pay taxes, but I don't have to pay anyone else to tell me the height of my grass, it seems absurd to me

>>10583582

Retard, what are you fucking talking about?
Do you not plan on living for less than 10 years?

>>10583565
Assume that average millennials will be responsible and invest their money properly while renting... spoiler: they won't

>>10583615
but you have to pay a tax to own a TV.... thats ok with you?

>>10583620
>hes not looking at the bigger picture

>>10583627
Correction, you need to pay a fee if you want to watch the shit channels they have, which I don't, so I don't pay

>>10583145
>Thinks real houses are made of wood..

>>10583638

Honestly, you're completely braindead.

>>10583235
>>10583391
What if you wait and buy after thr market crashes you fucking retards

>>10583565
>$10k/year property tax
That's what happens when you live in a socialist shithole like canada.

>>10583641
so its the same shit. Dont move into a shit neighborhood. I dont want my neighborhood to turn to shit. I pay the fee so they keep niggers and spicks in check

>>10583307
It's to keep nogs out

>>10583660
This is good advice

>>10583614
>wow look at me i paid off my mortgage, surely this is the case for 99% of home buyers with their 30 year mortgages

smarmy faggot just trying to win arguments on the internet, gb2 reddit

>>10583649
>imply plywood is really "wood"

>>10583660
Exactly what I am thinking of doing... But lets face it... The bubble may or may not burts in the next 10 years...
I know this board focus on crypto and pajeets, and cocks that want to get rich easily, but buying a house or renting one ... Either way you are kind of fucked because is a no win situation...

>>10583705
did i hurt your feelings?

>>10583705
>taking a 30 year mortgage in the first place
15, 20 max, or you're buying more house than you can truly afford
and pay that shit off ahead of time anyhow

>>10583489

Anyone that has bought a house in the last two years is fucked. There are houses in my area with 80% appreciation in the last five years. Nosebergstein is going to have a field day with the housing market at some point

>>10582815
omg so cute

>>10583091
been learning / researching this shit myself. IMO it's not retarded but i'm mad conservative and trying to hedge against a downturn. if you're too leveraged you get fucked. i'm prepaying on my mortgage to save me money on interest but if i need the equity later i can HELOC.

basically this guy's episode of bigger pockets:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/biggerpockets-podcast-268-acquiring-20-long-distance-rental-homes-on-military-salaryrich-carey/

i'm a big fan of putting more money down, buying and holding.

>>10583489
I bought a house in DC who's housing market laughed off 2008. Even the homes in the ghetto are skyrocketing in value now.

>>10583031
>waggie
you already lost

>>10582636
>falling for 30 year Jew financing

>>10582815

You are a very smart goy -er... guy. The owner of your apartment building or rental home eats the cost of all of those things and rents to you at a loss because he is just that nice. You could even say he is your greatest ally.

>>10583625
>savings account
Why would I have money in a savings account if I wanted to invest it?

>>10583731

nice argument

>>10583625

>How much money do you have in an investment that gains 0.000000000001% interest?
>Small number for most people

Shocking.

>>10583966
>he doesn't 5 year finance

>>10584104
>keeping your money at a big chain bank
there's easy alternatives that pay more than a fraction of a fraction of a pittance on your money, if you know where to look
I have a savings account with Discover, which pays 1.75% interest

>>10583565

>Half million dollar house
>Lots of luxury spending along with it
>"Maintenance" costs assume you pay somebody else to do everything because you're too stupid to fix your dishwasher

I agree that houses are not an investment if you don't have a rentcuck living in it, but the numbers they put in their calculation are absurd. To be fair, I would recoil and start looking at mobile homes if the average house was $500,000 where I live.

>>10583196
Ausfag reporting, it's mostly negative here, and what many of these 'investors' were doing was merely multiplying their liability by leveraging unrealized gains and only repaying the interest portion of their loans to free up cash for more.

They operate under the presumption property is in the golden bull run and are literally all in at 10x. We are at a point now where goys who bought the top last year have on paper lost all of their money. As it slides further we will start to see the mid level cucks who leveraged imaginary money into the millions finding themselves hundreds of thousands in the red.

>>10582636
>not squatting

>have properties to rent
>some slav tourist rent it
>he rents it herself
>i get hit with a 90.000€ fine for illegal tourism renting because its on my name
>russian bitch disappears
>i have to pay

>>10584236
t. hillbilly who can't do conversion between CAD/USD

It aint for every body

>>10584213
Wow a whole 1.75%.

>>10584285
holy shit

>>10582636
I've been renting for 6 years, same place. It's my parent's house though so I don't mind.

>>10584489
miles better than the 0.1% I was getting before
previous bank also had a $500 minimum balance, at all times
fuck that noise

>>10584529
>Paying your parent's rent

It's like they dont want you to move out.

>>10582636
I live in Santa Cruz California (look it up if you want to know what's going on here fucking pricewise) and my wife and I pay $1,400 for a nice 1 bedroom, with a cuck cave battlestation in the garage for me. $1,400 is superlow here for a nice 1 bedroom. Perfectly /comfy/. We know the owner so we got a really nice deal and don't have to pay the market rent, which is fucking science fiction here.

No way in hell would I even consider paying $900K for a similar house, in a market that is spectacularly overbought.

Everybody's situation is different, and it depends on where you live.

I will rent til the next crash. What’s a good down payment? Is 20 % the consensus? I’m aiming for a 2br under $200k in a nice nearby suburb. Currently they’re 250-300 for what I’m looking at.

>>10586370
enough to avoid the PMI, which is 20%, is it not?

basically pointless unless you have a lot of money and have no plans to move.
if you're young then not moving means not getting raises because you're afraid to rock the boat with the employer

It would take 15 years of rent for me to buy my current place...

>>10586415
Yeah I’ve been doing a bit of research to answer my own Q. 20% to avoid that. But apparently it’s very common for people to put down 3.5% and go for an FHA loan. No wonder all my friends are getting houses if it’s that easy to the normies. This will end badly for most.

>>10582887
25y mortage will cost you double the original price? How fucked up are your conditions?

>>10586841
>3.5%
so so stupid

>>10586841
>>10587145
if you can't afford to put a real goddamn down payment on a house, you can't afford that house

>>10582636
just lol @ brainlets who can't get a higher return than the real-estate market. You're literally branding yourself as sub 80 IQ.

Should i rent or buy now?
>Real estate wont pop in my country

>>10583031
Are you a baggage handler or some other shit? Literally no one sane would ever live near an airport due to noise. Then again, I live next to a waterfall so that's that...

>>10587214
I live by the runway furthest from the terminals, which is the least used one
probably only actually hear noise from planes once or twice on an average day

I'll buy your house on a discount when the housing market crashes within two years faggot