/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10205988
Cool thanks!

Thanks, only 216 years!

>>10205988
So if I invest a dollar right now I should be able to retire in 2233 or so? Won't I be pretty old by then?

>>10206029
>>10206025
Yeah, if you have 1$ in savings today. If so, you should probably go look for a job instead of doing due diligence on vaporware

>>10205988
Shows that fiat is worthless and can / will blow up any time. Gold is the real store of value and not supposed to be an investment

>>10205988
I did just that and I am the happiest man alive.
Except I invested $3 in stock in 12,378 BC-went all in.
Needless to say that I am the richest man in the Univers and during my millenia of growth I aquired some galaxies.
Weren't for those fucking dinosaurs and their crashing the markets I would own the whole Universe.
Well, nothing is lost untill you sell, right op ? Maybe in the next 4-5k years I will have enough to buy me that big U.
Cheers OP, good advice.

>>10206076
I dont get this store of value meme, it could easily drop down to $300 again and stay there for the next 100 years. Its just speculation

Nice schlmo just put all my shekels in the stock market

>>10206174
Then you don't understand how to read statistics nor history. If the purchasing value of an asset stays nearly the same over a time frame of thousand of years, it might be a store of value.
Cannot say the same about fiat

>>10205988
Fake as fuck news.
Even 1920 if you bought gold then, itd be worth way more now.
3$ then= 3$ now....so fucking stupid

>>10206294
inflation adjusted nigga. and worse shadow inflation adjusted it actually lost value. that's considering it's mined at an exponentially increasing rate should be no surprise.

>>10206329

>>10206353

>>10206368
from these charts should be obvious gold is not even a store of value.

>>10206192
So by that logic, the price of gold should follow the inflation rate if its purchasing power is to remain the same. Except it doesnt, it fluctuates a lot

Yeah, stock market is TOTALLY not a bubble.

>>10206389
well QE went straight into stocks and real estate we all know that.

>>10206387
It flactuates like any other asset, but it stays + / - nearly at the same purchasing value.
Last 50-70years was due the release of the gold standard and the ongoing infinite printing of worthless fiat money on top of inflating everything with QE.

Btw, i don't really care...gold is a hedge and will always be a hedge and shouldn't be compared with other Investments at all.

>>10206405
Is it sustainable? Will they QE go in forever? Once the printers stop, it will all come down like the first SpaceX rockets

>>10206389
Zoom out

>>10206451
i can agree with that gold is not an investment it's insurance and like any insurance it will cost you.

>>10206466
Even worse

>>10206504
They do have a P/E of 270 (ttm), where as the average is 15, so the market really expects them to deliver some serious growth in revenue or profit. If the miss their targets by a few percentage points, the stock is probably gonna drop like a brick. Not necessarily a bubble, its just the pricing of high growth company
Everyone said Facebook was a bubble back in 2014, how did that go?

>>10205988
I rather get rich or or stay poor trying. Not going to settle for a life of wageslaving. I'll stick to my 300$ rent and 50$ groceries for now ok, thanks.

FYI Gold isnt an investment.

Its used for leverage/hedging

Just saying

>>10205988
note the minute asteroid mining becomes a thing the entire metals market will crash or be severely disrupted. this seems speculative now but within twenty years a new paradigm will take the lead. stocks seem to still win. crypto is a crapshoot

>>10207128
>PhD in all stems reporting in
>I have googled asotird mining and it clearly shows the gold is done
>On top...3D printing is killing the real estate market, i have watched a 3min video about it, don't need more Info
>I have read 101 eco for dummies and QE will bring stocks to a new high
>Cars? Worthless, there is an article about flying drones...it will fucking disrupt ALL TRANSPORT
>Jobs? There will be non in 10years, my dad is the CEO of Nintendo and everything will be automated, even the fucking military will be automated 100% in 10years
>UBI? Yeah, this is the future, my 101 book showed me that this is a flawless system and will come in 5years max

>>10205988
ya because we've already proven that tech is a scam...why would we ever attempt to integrate technology into storing wealth. why would we ever integrate technology into communication. why would we ever integrate technology into means of transportation. why would we ever integrate technology into our military. why would we ever integrate technology into our health care system. why would we ever integrate technology into every aspect of our daily lives. probably just buying scamcoins though. right

>>10206653
>this is what first year traders actually believe

>>10207293
correction. this is what first year traders (in 2018) actually believe. mainly because they cant understand that their economy is propped up by circle jerking money. they cannot imagine ever needing a store of value that has been fairly consistent since people discovered shiny things are valuable. but im sure their paper bullshit that can be printed endlessly and has been printed endlessly will hold up for ages to come.

>>10207128
Anon keep science for the big boys just keep reading your pop-sci articles.

>>10205988
>bitcoin is kinda like gold, therefore all crypto is like gold
>bleach is mostly water and we’re mostly water, therefore we are bleach

>>10207341
>central bank is destroying the currency, they print money out of nothing and theres no competition to central banks
This is how you identify a person that knows absolutely nothing about how the financial system really works

>>10207626
you most definitely need to inject liquidity during recessions. but you dont print money. you force the people causing the drop in liquidity to drop their bags...tax the wealthy faggot

>>10207626
oh. and on top of that...you let companies fail that have proven that they are failing companies

>>10207549
Nice, just drank 100L

>>10205988
I bet you thought the internet was a ponzi scheme too, huh bitch boy boomer?

buy sys

>>10207647
If everyone is running for the exit, even the largest financial institutions, and you cant force people to save the system, how do you save it? The central bank. And this is not the first time they have done it, they increased their assets by 3x times during the great depression.
>>10207662
Of course. But when the companies are so large and integrated that a default would destroy the financial system, dont you think its worth saving?

>>10205988
what companies that existed in 1802 are still around? Most of those stocks would be worth $0.

>>10205988
Sick arbitrary date of 1802. Now do 2002 and 2012. KYS, faggot.

Gold is not an investment, it is money. Do you invest in the dollar? No, you use it as unit of account and medium of exchange. Gold is a unit of account + medium of exchange + store of value. (gold has intrinsic value, paper fiat does not, gold price has remained stable, fiat value has dropped 98% in 100 years)

Gold is simply the best way to preserve your wealth

>>10207768
1. you dont let any single company get big enough to have that kind of risk associated with its success.
2. you can force people to save the system. tax the rich. they didnt earn that much wealth anyways. they probably earned a lot. but not enough to slow the economy down. but by all means. keep telling yourself that the ultra rich earned their 7 private jets and that your tax dollars should pay for just as many airships for the military as their tax dollars

>>10207647
the FED actually decreased liquidity during the great depression, it is what made it last so long. they could have shortened the recession by printing money unironically

>>10207808
Define money. If you consider gold money, stocks can be seen as money, US T-bills could be seen as money

>>10207876
Did you not read my post?

Money is
>unit of account + medium of exchange + store of value

>>10207874
im referring to the recent recession not the depression. i lived through the recession. they are two different instances that occurred in two extremely different iterations of the economy. things change. and i agree. they could have shortened the depression

>>10207876
>>10207911
also it should have:

General Acceptability
Portability
Indestructibility or Durability
Homogeneity
Divisibility
Malleability
Cognizability

all of which stocks are not

>>10206174
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Oz2R0u4VM

>>10207911
Its quite hard to use as a medium of exchange and the store of value in gold is fluctuating a lot. And the portability is low when its in the higher numbers

>>10207923
this being said. i do not know enough about the depression to comment on how they should have gone about injecting liquidity. it happened a long time ago and i wasnt around to give them sage advice

>>10207626
i concur

>>10208054
it sounds like you guys know how an economy works in the short term but not in the long term

>>10207808
gold is a depreciating asset basically a milf that grew old over thousands of years and still got some run in her some people still find her sexy but that won't last long.

>>10208079
which is why i dont doubt that you will make money off of your investment

>>10208079
nigga pay attention to the thread read not just write maybe. nobody said fiat money was keeping it's value. we said gold is not keeping it's value.

didnt know we can live 250 years

>>10208082
we have more use cases for gold than we ever have. what are you talking about???

>>10205988

>>10208098
so im not allowed to have conversations about money on "your" thread about store of value???

>>10207986
Ive seen it. Mike Maloney, like Peter Shill, sells gold so of course they promote the shit out of it despite having been wrong ever since they gathered attention in the aftermath of the financial crisis. Mike Maloney thinks the entire central banking is a ponzi scheme, which tells you everything theres to know about his legitimacy. His wrinkles are gonna get bigger as the gold price keeps dropping

>>10208120
Why not both?
You should always have some gold. You Americans have never experienced hyperinflation but us Slavs have. What are you going to do when you have 2 mil dollars in the bank and think you've made it, but then you wake up one day and 2 million dollars can't even buy a new car because no one wants dollars anymore?

>>10208112
why don't you fucking read?
>>10206329
>>10206353
>>10206368
>>10206378

gold is not a good store of value. it actually loses value compared to real inflation. and the central banks and countries moving away from it as reserve should tell you everything about where it goes.

gold will have industrial uses like coal and oil. do you stockpile them? maybe copper or aluminum, titanium, lead?

>>10208098
They're the same thing, really. Fiat doesn't keep its value in relation to gold, or gold doesn't keeps its value in relation to Fiat.

But you know what gold does keep in relation to while the dollar does not? Wages

>>10208150
i like this slav. he gets it. american monopoly money is indeed the worst currency to shill on 4chan. it still has worth. but i'd rather have large tracks of land than a large bank account full of fiat

>>10208150
w2 buy gold? i should go for real gold stored where? or do i go paper?

>>10208172
gold may decrease in value. but other assets will DECREASE in value.

>>10208150
hyperinflation by nature can be hedged by any literally any asset including land and real estate which is actually inflation proof long term.

gold is just a shiny metal. lead actually performed better in the recent year much better lithium on the other hand now that shit is crazy man... you should stockpile lithium!

>>10208195
>But you know what gold does keep in relation to while the dollar does not? Wages
exactly and ever since wages divorced from productivity that is a shit deal. it's what i'm telling you gold is worth less and less.

>>10208216
ya only buy assets that are up in value. buy high sell low. your first sentence made sense. your second sentence gave me autism

>>10208208
depends on the asset. a flat in an inner city will only increase in value over time.

>>10208172
Ease refute what's said in this screenshot and explain how gold isn't a store of value

>>10208028
no its not hard to use at all, especially with silver. 1oz silver = $16, can also use 1/10 oz 1/4th etc etc

it fluctuates less than USD over the past 50 years

portability is low? nigga how much do you need to carry? two gold coins will give you $2600 in your pocket

>>10208234
nigga i was talking about performance and no lithium demand is growing way faster than supply. so no you are just being obnoxious.

gold performs like shit mainly because more and more is mined of every year and demand is shifting from financial to industry.

>>10208246
i already did you just refuse to fucking read it.
but consider this: after ww2 a man doing a manual job could buy a decent home from his yearly salary.

today? it would be closer to 15 years.

>>10208206
Paper gold is bullshit. Real gold bars or coins (not rounds those are bullshit) from jmbullion.com or Perth mint or whatever. Stored in a safe in your house. Not a safety deposit box in the bank. Banks love to close when SHTF and when SHTF is when you'll need your gold the most

>>10208232
Gold holds up much better than dollars. Besides gold isn't an investment, it's a hedge against the dollar. It's stores its value while dollars lose theirs. Not sure what more to say

>>10208256
You would need 100 different sizes when youre going shopping in the mall for example. I dont know how you measure USD fluctuations, but the US dollar index has been 90-100 around 30 years.
Im talking big M&A deals, billions of dollars

>>10208327
>Gold holds up much better than dollars.
many things do.

>>10208241
why? technology has made it so that we dont have to live right next to each other to increase productivity. decentralization is the biggest buzzword on biz. the latest generation is socially anxious. explain to me why a flat in an inner city will only increase in value as opposed to being presently overvalued

>>10207845
Kys

>>10208327
>Not sure what more to say
well you could show me how it would have made you more dollars holding gold than investing into the stock market (index) over any 20 year period.

>>10208372
buy syscoin

>>10208381
looks due for a correction to me.

>>10208246
And in three years, the gold price could be $300, while the average weekly wage is not $20 anymore, but $1300

>>10208323
This has nothing to do with gold and only with non well adjusted salaries over decades filled inflation. Fiat is worthless...QE is printing more and more money...people don't get REAL inflation adjusted income increase per year...this leads to your shitty example...

Real estate has nothing to do with it either. It is an asset which benefits from its limitation and increasing demand and futhermore a growthing population

>>10208366
alright, so when i look at square feet prices on my city map i will find that the inner city is not actually the most expensive according to you? lol. and even if people don't want to live there anymore it won't have incredible value to businesses as office right in the beating heart of the city? lol. nigga you are the most obnoxious gold bug i ever talked to.

>>10206192

Currently the most retarded post on 4chan

>>10208328
a $100 dollars from 1918 would be worth $2 today

>>10208381
>over any 20 year period.
I cherry pick whatever time frame i want and THAT IS MY POINT.

This will happen with your shitty fiat money

>>10208410
And in 3 years the dollar could hyperinflate to where an average weekly wage is 100k..... What's your point?

>>10208381
Gold isn't for that. It's a hedge not an investment. The dollar value doesn't matter because dollars aren't money. Money is gold, and nothing else. Gold is a base. Who cares if you have 10 million dollars if you can't buy a house with it?

>>10208417
>one says gold keeps up with salaries so it's a store of value
>i say okay but salaries are dropping like flies in actual value
>other says yeah because real inflation is higher than official (my point btw) so it's a shitty example
>says shitty example
okay then

>>10208419
yes. square footage in the inner city is the most expensive today. i'm commenting on tomorrow, as that is how you make money. and businesses will not buy your flat until the price tanks and you have to sell it. thats how good businesses make money

to end this stupid argument, consider one fact:

All Fiat currencies have gone to 0

every.
single.
one.

gold has never gone to $0
in fact it probably has never gone below $1000 (adjusted to any time period over the past 2500 years)

any questions?

>>10208476
>everbody says anything
welcome to /biz/

>>10208449
>The dollar value doesn't matter

it's a comparison. a unit of measure to compare performance (increase in purchasing power alas value) of an asset.

i don't care what you think about dollar and fiat if something drops in dollar price while the other increases in dollar price you can't say the first kept it's value compared to the second because it would make you look like a drooling retard.

>>10208492

>gold valued in fiat
>All fiat goes to zero
>Gold has never gone to fiat

>>10208515
Gold is not valued in FIAT only, it is valued in its purchasing power. Gold has pretty much always been able to get you $1000 of stuff in any time period adjusted for inflation

>>10208440
You really think the monetary policies of Zimbabwe will happen in the Western wold? OK, youre a fool
>b-but fiat is declining in value, its worthless
And yet the GDP per capita, adjusted from inflation, has been growing rapidly in the last 100 years

>>10208492
>gold has never gone to $0
>in fact it probably has never gone below $1000 (adjusted to any time period over the past 2500 years)

i see you don't read either. or just cant read charts?
>>10206368
>>10206353

>>10208419
if your flat is no longer worth anything to you do you really think a business is going to throw money at you for it???

>>10207927
>>10207911
Your wishlist is not a definition. Money is a medium of exchange. The rest just determines the quality. Bricks if accepted by some people can be money, just very shitty money.

>>10208515
>What is purchasing power?

>>10208560
i'm sure you can better predict future real estate prices than everyone else on the planet. in fact why even have a market for price discovery you can just tell everyone what is worth what? so much easier.

>>10208509
Explain then how the dollar kept its value according to this? It's not like cattle have been getting "better" that they're worth more money nowadays. There is no reason for their price to keep going up. Which is why the price for cattle hasn't been going up in terms of gold. But it has in dollars. Not like cattle are more worth more. But the dollar is inflating. That's why it's not a good store of value

>>10208557
Zimbabwe is only an example. What about the ussr in the 90s? What about Venezuela today? What about ever single Fiat currency in history?

>>10208606
im talking about your flat m8. its not real real estate. its just a 4x4 box. nobody wants to live there. they have to because it beats sitting in traffic for 2 hours every day to get to a job that could be done at home

>>10208671
>Explain then how the dollar kept its value according to this?
where did i say that? where did i ever fucking say that you blithering retard? show me! i said gold is not a good store of value in fact it might not even be a decent store of value.

>>10208141

The central bank is a ponzi scheme though, Scholomo.

>>10208671
Goldmoney is retarded and this graph is probably fake statistics, its just Peter Schiff trying to sell his shitty company

>>10208712
yeah okay so if i go check real estate prices i will see that it's actually dropping right? wait a minute let me check! oh wait they nearly doubled the past few years... what the hell?

>>10208557
>>10208701
>Zimbabwe is only an example.

I have got some examples for you, meet me behind /biz/ and we can talk some more.

>>10208750
Shit I completely fucked up my lame joke without the picture.

>>10208745
sounds sustainable

>>10208732
OK. Either you dont know what a Ponzi scheme is or you dont know what the central bank does

>>10208745
and again. your shitty flat in the inner city isnt real estate. its a cheap box that you pay out the ass to live in so you can get to your job faster

>>10208262
>demand is shifting from financial to industry

Would you like to back up that claim you just ripped out of your arse hole? Global demand for gold is greater than global production per year and you seem to think that Russia and China are buying all that gold for their industry?

>>10208701
Fiat currency has failed several times, but it cant be compared to today where the whole world is integrated financially and the currencies are floating (one's decrease is another one's increase).
And yes, there are a lot of countries who have performed shitty monetary policies

>>10208557
>You really think the monetary policies of Zimbabwe will happen in the Western wold?

It literally just happened with QE, Scholomo. All of those dollars are going to come back to roost your ass out. First step will be the end of the petro dollar.

>>10208785

There is a third option. You don't know either of those.

Nice try though, Scholomo.

>>10205988
How many stocks lol. This is retarded

>>10208791
you sound jelly gold bug. how did gold fare in the past few years?

>>10208810
>Global demand for gold is greater than global production per year
well otherwise prices would smack through the floor. but what you don't consider is the supply is suppressed by the miners they pretty much carteled up and price still keeps dropping even tho they are nowhere near their capacity limits. shit is fucked golds fundamentals are not promising at all. and if a deflation comes all assets get hit gold included.

>>10209023
The index and the reinvest the dividends

>>10209037
i wish i could call myself a gold bug. but sadly im still waiting for link to go 69x

>>10206174
What is $300?
That's a very different number 100 years ago than it is today.
Hell even 50 years ago.

>>10205988
its time to buy your hidden Nazi Gold everyone !