/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10155901
>doesn't mention LINK once
>chink roastie host doesn't mention LINK either
Uh oh, pissed stinker incoming

>>10156041
Them not mentioning LINK is the point brainlet.

His whole argument surrounding smartcontracts being useless hinges on the oracle problem and the centralisation issues surrounding them.

Link is basically a fuck you to to him and everyone that thinks like him. The host who interviews pretty much every so called 'thought leader' in the space doesnt even know about chainlink.

As I said. Strap In.

Also, I'm super stinky.

>>10156041
She is fucking stupid anyway. Doing interviews since 2015 and still doesn't understand the basic concepts. All she ever adds to the conversations is "huh.. interesting"

>>10156066
Thats true.

Also the fact that she is a so called no coiner after all this time proves she is a complete moron.

>>10156066
Not to mention what a total fucking bitch she is. Listen to the first 10 minutes of her Ripple podcast complaining how Brad Garlinghouse didn't want to talk to her .... "I asked for the CEO. I ALWAYS get the CEO"

>>10156095
She thinks because she was a writer at Forbes that makes her amazing. "OMG I put XRP in the forbes top Crypto list multiple times in a row and THATS how I get treated??"

Stupid cunt.

Anyway Jimmy song is a funny dude and he obviously talks about Chainlink even though he doesn't drop the name.

>>10156063
I don't think smart contracts will be useless, but I think they'll be tightly constrained. Consensus and aggregation is hard, so I don't expect them to be a cure all. They'll revolutionise the specific use cases that they're able to be applied to, which is narrower than I think a lot of linkies think so.

>>10156063
Relax, idiot
I guarantee I listened to this podcast before you did
It's not centralization issues with oracles, it's trusting them at all
Then you're back to square 1
If you need financial data, you can set up an agreement with a mega company like nasdaq
Hey, we will use your data for smart contracts that automatically trigger
If there turns out to be a huge price discrepancy or bad data, the contract allows for manual rollback/review/penalties
We will pay x amount for the data
So you basically solve the oracle problem with a hybrid solution. You gain the massive benefits of auto triggering smart contracts while retaining the right to void them if something goes wrong, which only happens a small fraction of the time
LINK is just unnecessary extra cost, time, and effort
We all can see the final score of NFL games.
We know if a score is reported wrong by ESPN, it might happen once a month and usually is fixed quickly
Sports books right now take huge bets and have automated ways of grading bets
Do mistakes happen? Sure! And what happens? They roll back obvious bad results and adjust balances. Everyone knows this up front and the system works extremely well.
I've personally seen losing bets be graded as winners, and then an hour later it's fixed. All without muh decentralization/extra cost

>>10156130
Brainlets like you dont understand the difference between the person responsible for providing the data and then person responsible for writing the data to the blockchain.

>>10156130
you cant fucking roll back a smartcontract you tard.

>>10156143
Person providing data assumes this responsibility, gets paid for it, if something goes wrong they're liable
Oh no! How would it ever work
We can't just trust ESPN for nfl scores, we need nfl.com, CBS, yahoo, fox sports, local TV/radio stations, and ESPN to all come within the margin of error!
What a fucking waste

>>10156130
Yeah you probably did listen to it before me seeing as I only just listened to it.

His entire argument about why Bitcoin is going to be number 1 and smart contracts dont work is because of centralisation issues somewhere along the line.

LINK solves the oracle problem, and the centralised oracle problem.

I agree that the stinkiest of linkies are probably getting carried away with use cases, but there certainly are use cases for autotriggering smartcontracts with external data.

The point it to aggregate the data across multiple sources so you dont need to rely on NASDAQ solely for your data feed.

I don't care about your degenerate gambling insights.

>>10156096
Completely agree. That rant she put on at the beginning of the Ripple/XRP podcast was so unprofessional it took my already low opinion of her to rock bottom - and I'm not a fan of XRP.

I can't wait for her to get blown out of the water by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

>>10156148
Why not? You just have agreements set up ahead of time
So you're trading something and a smart contract triggers based in INTC price which reached $50
Except in reality it was only $49.96
You collect some gains
The other side cries foul
You now are required to refund the gains back to the other party
Luckily it happens infrequently since new data providers will promise better reliability in exchange for fees to access the data
Saying "you can't roll back a smart contract" is brain dead
Any two way agreement can be modified, rolled back, or changed through a court order or side agreement
This isn't like accidently sending some tokens to a burn address where they're gone forever
There are counter parties involved here and you can figure out who they are for the most part
Otherwise you better hope your code is literally error/bug free, and hackproof

>>10156164
In the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, relying on one trusted, centralized source of data is plenty
Especially when you can pick and choose which source to use
If we need real time prices for gold, there are many to pick from that have no problems the overwhelming majority of the time

>>10156178
>So you're trading something and a smart contract triggers based in INTC price which reached $50
>Except in reality it was only $49.96

I don't think the smart contract would trigger unless it was 50. It wouldn't trigger if it was 49.96

>>10156178
What you're suggesting is not what I'd call 'rolling back' a smart contract.

Yeah you could take your smart contract to the courts and fight it - if you know who the other party is. If it's happening on a decentralised ledger then you cant just call up 1800-ETHEREUM and get them to roll it back.

>>10156130
>It's not centralization issues with oracles, it's trusting them at all
>Then you're back to square 1
you're an utter fuxkig idiot. you dont understd anything about what LINK and oracles actually do.
people need to get this through their dumb skulls: oracles dont have any say in the quality or trustworthiness of data coming onto the blockchain!
what orcales do is verify that the data hasnt been corrupted in the process of coming onto the blockchain, by way of having multiple nodes each bring the same data in from the same source.

>>10156156
>We can't just trust ESPN for nfl scores, we need nfl.com, CBS, yahoo, fox sports, local TV/radio stations, and ESPN to all come within the margin of error!
>What a fucking waste
that's not what oracles do you fucking mong!!!!

>>10156130
>It's not centralization issues with oracles
oh boy

>>10156202
Correct. Thank you.

Also, Chainlink can aggregate various data sources and oracles to mitigate the risk of a compromised data source or oracle. You just need to pay more for the privilege.

>>10156156
They cant be liable for the persons whos job it is to CHECK the data and write it to the blockchain.
The are liable for the data itself.

There is a middle step you are completely forgetting about, and when lots of money is involved these people could be compromised without a system like LINK.

>If someone did manage to solve the oracle problem, I imagine there would be A LOT of money in it for them

Literally the only line I heard in this interview

>>10156191
Right, I am assuming 50 is a bad price reported by whoever
Thats when the "rollback" clause goes into effect since it was bad data
Not exactly rocket science to figure out the mistake and compensate whoever needs to be made whole

>>10156130
I believe a problem like this one can simply be solved by time delays in contracts

e.g. the oracles asking for info twice in a week and if the second time returns a wrong value the contract should be voided or something like that
1 week should be enough for people to change the value if it's wrong

>>10156215
yes. someone used an analogy earlier today of a trader bringing goods from one side of a river to the other, wherein LINK doesnt guarantee the quality of the goods which are being moved, rather it guarantees the stability of the bridge.

it's not a perfect analogy - no analogy ever is - but it's pretty damn close.

>>10156187
I like a good fudding as much as the next anon but this is embarrassing and i almost feel sorry you for being so dumb.

>>10156212
How often has ESPN.com been down during nfl season when people check scores?
If one source is down just use source 2, 3, or 4 until you get a result
How often does nasdaq report bad financial data?

>>10156187
That's a good thing for Chainlink then.

>>10156226
If you have 1 data provider reporting X set of data and 9 reporting Y set of data, then you obviously go with Y set of data. That is why you need to decentralize the oracles and data sources so you can get accurate data.

>>10156241
I don't understand the premise here at all
What possible use case are you even referencing here?

>>10156260
>Spoonfeed me

>>10156257
People will pick the sources that have the highest reliability, accuracy, uptime etc
How often do you actually see an error?
I don't think I've seen more than one or two "wrong" scores on mlb.com in the past decade
I have never seen an egregiously wrong price on nasdaq.com
Binance has never given me a wildly wrong price, either
Yesterday SYS traded for 96 btc each. Binance rolled back some trades
Obviously that price is way off and things are adjusted after the fact
That's how things work in the real world
If you 100% automate everything, and something goes wrong, you're fucked
You need some mechanism to be able to rollback or make things right in the case of an obvious error. Otherwise some unintended consequences will pop up and ruin a multi billion dollar agreement, with 0 hope of fixing it after the fact

>>10156244
>How often has ESPN.com been down during nfl season when people check scores?
How many major automated financial transactions depend on this?

>If one source is down just use source 2, 3, or 4 until you get a result
That's what a decentralized solution offers, automatically.

>How often does nasdaq report bad financial data?
My pic wasn't about "bad data".
Also, the Chainlink network allows for single-node usage for simple closed systems like Nasdaq.

Chainlink's use case includes more elaborate systems however, like pic related (a slide from Sibos) where multiple sources AND multiple types of sources all have to come together to allow for a product to be delivered (in this case smart bonds).

>>10156224
THIS.

>>10156260
He's saying the trader (ESPN, NASDAQ) has provided the bananas, but the bridge (LINK) is super stinky (stable) and guarantee the delivery of goods. The bananas might be rotten when they arrive, but they didn't start to decompose on the bridge.

The analogy breaks down because data ≠ physical goods and chainlink can include multiple banana providers.

>>10156244
You have been told on numerous occasions that LINK is not responsible for the quality of data or uptime of sites like fucking ESPN.

There is a another important step in between publishing of the data and the automatic execution of a smart contract. Its completely over you head.

>>10156273
Spoonfeed?
Let's say the example here is the fabled "flight insurance" one
Where if your flight doesn't take off on time, you're paid some sort of reward automatically
Do we really need more than one source for this?
Airlines set up a smart contract, hook up their existing API, things run smoothly
We don't need security or 13 different data providers because it's just fucking obvious if a plane took off or not, there are ways to verify it that don't involve extra cost. The default would be to just trust existing sources and if there are issues then find new solutions using fees to incentivize people to provide good data

>>10156286
this. the other guy has completely misunderstood what an oracle does, and got hung up on this idea that data has to be "verified" somehow, or that for data to be valid it has to come from multiple sources.

it. does. not.

what an oracle does do, is it receives the data a the data providing party, and then transmits that onto the block chain. it benefits the parties to the contract by utilising multiple nodes all getting info from the same source, to make sure that between source and blockchain the info isnt corrupted.

>>10156301
Yeah sure. Luckily LINK doesn't mandate multiple providers, but offers them where necessary. Businesses and people can choose if they want that service or not.

Fud is getting weaker or people are getting more idiotic.

>>10156286
exactly this, it sounds like he's misunderstanding what the oracle is responsible for

>>10156301
>Do we really need more than one source for this?
If you're implicating more than one airport, yes, in a way.
Unless a global provider ensures the creation of this data for all airports in the world, which is highly doubtful.

But again, Chainlink can be used for single-source oracle computations too.
But Chainlink is the only dedicated solution for more complex transactions involving multiple sources AND multiple TYPES of sources.

>>10156301
Time for spoonfeeding.
In the case of your flight insurance automatically triggering a smart contract.
Would you prefer to trust one airline and one person writing it it to the blockchain (who could change or delay data for various reasons).. or one airline and several decentralised nodes writing it to the blockchain?

Link has many usecases. One data provider or Multiple.

1. Aquire REP;
2. Let the linkshills burn;
3. ??????
4. PROFIT

>>10156278
if you build enough redundancy into the system, errors won't happen. you can build an automated system with enough redundancy so that you will only get an error in 1 in a billion or 1 in a trillion instances if you were really that risk averse. automation is the future m8. the costs of unintended consequences will dwarf the savings from having a fully automated system.

>>10156301
Read this.
"Fable Flight Insurance needs Oracles Shocker"
https://medium.com/@laurentbenichou/fizzy-axa-reaches-a-new-milestone-fadd41f20e11

"5. More trustful oracle. The data used for reference to acknowledge a plane arrival is today open and checkable by anyone. Yet we think we can do better through the multiplication of data sources and the ‘oraclization’ of it under stronger Ethereum standards. This is an objective that we strive to address right after crypto-payment."

LINK an an error correction mechanism for the transmission of data.

the fact that that data may very well, in the majority of cases, come from one source is not the oracle's problem. the oracle makes sure that the data being sent from the data provider is not corrupted - either maliciously or innocently - along the way.

>>10156278
>I don't think I've seen more than one or two "wrong" scores on mlb.com in the past decade
If people knew that an automated smart contract worth fucking millions was hanging on the data from that site you can be sure attempts to manipulate it before it hits the blockchain would occur.

No one has any financial interest right now to prove you wrong by hacking it.

here's an example of how an oracle will work:

say i want to know which was the first comment posted in this thread after the OP's comment.

there would only be one source for this info i.e. 4chan.

but to mitigate the risk that a bad actor were to give me a false answer, i could ask the LINK network the give me 50 answers, one answer coming from each node.

if all answer were the same - or most answers - i can be happy tht i got the right answer.

but the source of that info is not decentralised. there is only one 4chan from which the nodes can reference data from.

FUD Destroyed. /thread

>>10156244
>How often does nasdaq report bad financial data?

>>10156278
>I don't think I've seen more than one or two "wrong" scores on mlb.com in the past decade
>I have never seen an egregiously wrong price on nasdaq.com

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what Chainlink (and indeed oracles in general) do.
Chainlink (and oracles in general) do NOT somehow make the source data more trustworthy.

People have been telling you this throughout the thread, but it bears repeating.

>>10156381
In future, companies that privide data from multiple data sources via decentralized oracles would be valued more. It will help in their business productivity and hence will be incentivized to provide multiple data sources. Those who dont provide will be trusted less and will face hard time competing with those who do.

>>10156491
Saying total bullshit isnt gonna make it true bro

>>10156491
no, this isn't true.

the smart contract itself would stipulate what sources of data were to be used in the execution of the contract. as has been said so many times here and elsewhere, the idea that there are in fact multiple sources of data to be gotten is false.

a contract for the price of a stock today is almost always - if not entirely - sourced from one exchange. the parties to a stock deal just decide between themseves which exchange to use i.e NY exchange, London exchange etc.

>>10156130
I'm listenting to it now and it sounds very reasonable in general and he's worried about very logical things. I don't listen to him often but I like reading him, he's chill.
> This is going to work, it's more faith than anything, you're not actually going to know if it works until a lot of transactions have gone through it
Agreed, at the same time I think he's way too deep on pessimism. I don't hate skepticism about it but he also says that if someone tackles this is in a satisfactory way there's probably going to be a huge fucking prize so let me dream about it and I promise not to all in.
> You can't link a digital token to a real world thing without trusting somebody
I mean, sure, the actual oracle problem is not solvable. I concede trying to decentralize oraclization introduces new angles of attack that must be handled really fucking well. But that increased risk can introduce advantages that may win after considering the extra costs because they make money appears out of thin air for NASDAQ and the user and the node operators through the magic of decentralization, aggregation, risk distribution and that's why there's a purpose. For now it's in limbo and things work really well there. I would leave things at, if the process can be cheaper for the user (think about sharing a Netflix account with my neighbour), slightly worse security may be acceptable as long as identifiable parties can be made responsible. If that's called centralization or decentralization or distributed byzantine agreements or whatever, I.don't give a fuck.

>>10156130
>sports bets
Nice example retard. It’s about anonymously submitting private data and reaffirming it’s accurate. Try google search meta data for instance. You are relying on google’s servers to give you the right data and instead you can aggregate it across different websites for example and get a more true result. A bunch of this data will also be sold directly to the people that need it, not relying on a central entity like google or Cambridge Analytica to source the data. Also NASDAQ can charge 100$ for you to look at their data while bill, John and Sarah can charge .01 for you to use theirs who have been proven 100% right for the last 4 years. It will devalue these metadata centres and make data not a monopoly anymore. Think in the future, not applying solutions to present mechanisms.

>>10156649
a lot of the idiots that fud LINK could learn a lot just by reading the wiki entry for "oracle problem".....

>>10156130
Imagine being this much of a brainlet

>>10156130
>If you need financial data, you can set up an agreement with a mega company like nasdaq
>Hey, we will use your data for smart contracts that automatically trigger
you still need a decentralized oracle to deliver the data you retard
>If there turns out to be a huge price discrepancy or bad data, the contract allows for manual rollback/review/penalties
the whole point of smart contracts is that they CANNOT be reversed.
>So you basically solve the oracle problem with a hybrid solution
no you don't.
kys-

when is this shit going down I want to buy more

>>10155901
Does he not know about ChainLink?

>>10157589
>the whole point of smart contracts is that they CANNOT be reversed
Dufus, the point is that the smart contract executes automatically so you don't have to go to court to get what you should receive according to the contract. The whole cannot be reversed thing isn't what makes a smart contract special, that's just a side effect. If you buy a car, do you want to be able to sell it in a few years? Sure. But what you don't want is that you pay someone for a car and then not get the car.

>>10156178
There is no crying foul with smartcontracts, that is the point of having multiple methods of obtaining API info, and multiple nodes providing consensus of accuracy. I still believe the golden egg is PSD2 and SWIFT messaging automation. All the other projects and discussion are a bonus.

>>10156649
If this is really the case I support Link even more, not just from a financial reward stance. Going to buy more soon.

>>10157924
This is an awesome thread full of great info about Link, they should pin this discussion on Link trader or that new site that contains Link info. Thanks to those with higher understanding and knowledge, I was already big on Link, this took it up a notch.

>>10155901
He doesn't even mention ChainLink. Thanks just sold 100k

Answer me this, how the FUCK does jimmy not know of ChainLink being the de facto leader in the race to bring a decentralized oracle network to market first?

What am I missing here. How do people who've been in this space (besides aantonop and Shwab) not know of ChainLink. Wtf is going on here. Shit is eerie and weird.

>>10157979
I really want to know your IQ Anon? Have you ever had it professionally tested, not online BS etc.

I want to know link true believers IQ's. 148 here.

>>10156278
The point isn't to make the data more trustworthy, it's about finding a way to make the TRANSMISSION of the data more trustworthy. If an oracle is centralized, or there isn't a way to guarantee that the data can't be tampered with, no one will trust it because some NEET sitting in his mom's basement operating a node could just send wrong data on purpose and fuck up someone's contract. My implementing multiple nodes and using Intel SGX you eliminate this problem.

>>10158268
Never had it tested but I have done okay. LOL.

>>10158634
Ah my mother had me tested because she thought I was "very depressed for a child my age", "liked age inappropriate things" and "loved pokemon too much". Then she had me tested again because she thought the first psychiatrist made a fuck up.

>>10158677
Wow your mom thinks you're retarded, nice.

>>10158248
Because it's not as impossible as everyone makes it seem. You're in a echo chamber if you never leave biz. Walk outside and realize nobody mentions link and you'll find out maybe it's not as big of a deal as you thought.

>>10156041
kek

>>10158776
Nobody thought this was a big deal either

>>10158268
Also people with an IQ over 133 people suck at modern life and can't relate to normal people or females.
https://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html
142 IQ with 30k Link here

>>10158915
>people or females
Subtle, I like it.

>>10158248
I think he knows what they're doing and others do as well. In the specific case of ChainLink, it simply hasn't translated whatever promise it can have into anything tangible. Congratulations, we have a testnet. That's just how it is.

>>10158889
>still a Chinese scam
Chainlink has nothing in common with ETH, ANS, PIVX or the rest super-gainers of 2017.
The amount of circlejerk in these threads is plain delusion.

Also, buy REP if you want an fundamentally sound exposure towards this sector.

>>10158915
Yeah I read that article long ago, please stop spreading it though.

>>10158923
It was intentional but people find it extremely difficult to relate to people with a greater than 30 IQ difference. Which is nearly all women when you are more than130 IQ.

>>10158248
The purpose of his show is to shill a product and idea. How does he benefit by convincing people smart contracts are a poor investment? That the oracle problem can't be solved? He wants people to buy Bitcoin.

>>10158980
Stop coping because you didn't develop socially enough to understand females. You make it out that all females are retarded. Fucking loser lmao.

>>10158980
It's true.

The bell curve for female IQ is much steeper, there are proportionally more females with average IQs compared to men, but also fewer females with lower-than-average AND higher-than average IQs compared to men.

>>10159011
No he didn't you dumbass.

>>10159011
I called all females average intelligence you nigger,

>>10159011

behold the average iq

>>10159011
I have detected the flippy floppy flaps of a roastie.

>>10159011

>>10158915
Can confirm, I have an IQ of 128 and talking to someone under 110-115 is like trying to talk to a 5 year-old.

>>10158268
IQ test != on a business board.

Some idiot can market a product and make money. We only care about money not IQ. Sometimes the dumbest people are the smartest because they know how dumb people function. Example, look at tron. It’s an absolute shitshow and yet one of the biggest gainers. I bought in August last year and sold way before because I saw red flags all over it. Instead you have retards who go on twitter and shill it and made tons of money off it. I was the retard.

>>10159940
Seems you are illiterate as well as "smart" ;)

>>10158268

IQ is for people who are inferior that want to feel superior.

>>10155901
Oracle problem is far away, but not too far away. Crypto will be a different scene in 20 years.

>>10155901

I heard this the other day while driving and immediately made this screenshot (pic related)

i shit my pants when he said

>there’s probably a lot of money in it for whoever solves the oracle problem

>>10160844
central california has an insufferable amount of beaners.

>>10158915
I think if they took that study further they would find that EQ plays a large part in the success of an individual with an IQ over 140. It probably plays a large part in the success of all individuals. Being able to process complex problems easily doesn't guarantee you can deal with people, and the same goes for the reverse. There are tons of successful individuals with IQ < 100 who just so happen to be loved by almost everyone they meet. Maybe their EQ is the cause of this, or maybe they're just lucky.

>>10160779
It can be. In the same way that any exceptional personal attribute can make someone feel that their unrelated failings are mitigated. As a blanket statement, it seems misguided to say this, though. IQ gives a ballpark way to measure aptitude for tasks that involve the same attributes that are measured by the tests.

>>10160779
Well done steven hawking now can you tell me why nobel prize winners in sciences IQ's are so high and name at least 5 Nobel prize winners (in science) with an IQ less than a 120?

>>10160779
Scored low on some IQ tests huh?

>tfw people still think a single source centralized oracle solves the oracle problem

>>10160878
EQ is pseudoscience. The article is making the argument that high IQ people are socially retarded because they find it difficult to relate to average intelligence children and are statistically unlikely to interact with people of a similar intelligence of their own.
Of course different people have different social skills but it isn't quantifiable

>>10160871

I don’t notice because i only leave my house for work and food

>>10159061
>>10159066
You have to learn how to train them and understand them. I'm sorry but with a high intelligence you recognize what it takes.

Read the book of pook and you will understand a lot of the female mind.

>>10161423
Self help books are for the lowest type of human.

>>10161423
Just watch some mgtow videos and see how much it actually reflects the behavior of women you've encountered through your entire life
Free of charge

>>10156096
Just listened to the ripple podcast right now. LMAO.

"Wahh I can't get the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company, even though they offered me some other top people from the company"

>>10158248
I have asked this question before too. How is it possible I am this far ahead of the curve?

An oracle was usually a priest or a priestess through whom the gods were supposed to speak or prophesize.
Data providers will be the new gods.

>>10162500
Checked, dubs confirm

>>10162500
They were put in a hole in the ground and they were high as shit

>>10162422
Jimmy is a shill you turd burglar. He talks about what he wants people to buy. There's more than 7 explanations for why he doesn't want people to buy LINK right now.

>>10155901
Hey can someone explain to me what jimmys agenda is because obviously he's a smart guy and such but does he really believe the oracle problem can't be solved and smart contracts won't be able to mimic real world financial agreements?
>I think it's like saying 2+2=5
Does he have some ulterior motive or something?

>>10162807
>7 reasons why jimmy doesn't want people to buy link
Go on...

>>10160943
It is difficult to quantify, but not impossible. Something as simple as having people determine the mood of someone in a short video could demonstrate a lowered EQ.

>>10159018
Women don't have a different curve than men. They are less intelligent, by about 5 IQ points. This should be expected due to differences in brain size. Helmuth Nyborg has a paper about this, which he got in a lot of trouble for.