/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10098725
32Millions for vaporware

Can this man get any more perfect?

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power--how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live--is not that just endeavoring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, "living according to Nature," means actually the same as "living according to life"--how could you do DIFFERENTLY? Why should you make a principle out of what you yourselves are, and must be? In reality, however, it is quite otherwise with you: while you pretend to read with rapture the canon of your law in Nature, you want something quite the contrary, you extraordinary stage-players and self-deluders! In your pride you wish to dictate your morals and ideals to Nature, to Nature herself, and to incorporate them therein; you insist that it shall be Nature "according to the Stoa," and would like everything to be made after your own image, as a vast, eternal glorification and generalism of Stoicism! With all your love for truth, you have forced yourselves so long, so persistently, and with such hypnotic rigidity to see Nature FALSELY

>>10098806
that is to say, Stoically, that you are no longer able to see it otherwise-- and to crown all, some unfathomable superciliousness gives you the Bedlamite hope that BECAUSE you are able to tyrannize over yourselves--Stoicism is self-tyranny--Nature will also allow herself to be tyrannized over: is not the Stoic a PART of Nature? . . . But this is an old and everlasting story: what happened in old times with the Stoics still happens today, as soon as ever a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates the world in its own image; it cannot do otherwise; philosophy is this tyrannical impulse itself, the most spiritual Will to Power, the will to "creation of the world," the will to the causa prima.

>>10098725
Sergey is a known workaholic and a stout follower of stoicism. Absolutely fucking based.

I want to caress him in a non-gay way.

>>10098725
"When the barbarians are at the gates, remind them No Refunds." -Sergey of Nazarov

>>10098806
wheres that from

>>10098863
Beyond Good and Evil.

>>10098725

He's saying that free will doesn't exist.

>>10098884
ah, the übermensch

>>10099273
No he isn't. Even if he believes that he wouldn't use that quote to deny free will given its context.

>>10099303
Your life is what your thoughts make it... you have no say over your thoughts. So yeah, he is.

>>10099273
hes saying to fall for the justification of actions (both yours and others) through "nature" is giving in to being raped both philosophically and irl, hes actually violently demanding the stoics to accept themselves and their free will instead of trying to be edgy and indifferent

>>10099334
he didnt say that tho, he just said your thoughts construct your life

>>10099340
By extrapolating on it, he's saying free will doesn't exist. YOU don't decide how your brain responds to something. It was genetics, it was past experiences, it was randomness of the universe all converging into a singular thought or action that is and always has been fated to happen. YOU have no free will, you don't even have a choice, none exists for you.

Even you writing your reply to me was never your choice. Your brain permitted it, and you, my friend, did not permit your brain to do anything. It decided for you. Your genetics decided for you. The physicality of your brain in your head decided for you, the neurons firing at the specific time in the specific way decided for you.

>>10098884
A Nietzsche brainlet pic, amazing

>>10099371
Youre falling down a cliff there by differentiating between you and your brain

marc aureal literally only said thoughts control your life, he did not state that you cant control your thoughts (and hence) your life. its only what you interpret there..

regarding to the free will meme, our brains are pretty much the exact same thing as a computer network, how else would you get decisionmaking if you could not disagree with yourself? so thats what we are, millions of little neurons that agree or disagree with eachother, that store information and process it.
theres no part that is you or not you, theres nothing magical connecting any part of your brain more closely to yourself than say a finger. cut a bit out, youre still fine, you will still think of yourself as an entity, but the reality is 99.9% of your body is a slave of the few neurons that make the decisions. wether those decisions are "free", well what is free? is it free if I get crazy and start doing things that are not in my interests, is it free if some random quantum event makes a neuron jump and suddenly disagree instead of agree, is it free if I chose to go against myself? there is no such thing as free, were just a pretty smart algorithm that goes by familiar patterns and that was molded by genetics

I dont think Marc Aurel is saying free will doesnt exist, I think hes saying that your thoughts define your life, (and hence it would be good if you could have control and direction about whats good for you to think), I dont disagree with him on this, but I also agree with you that we ultimately dont have that much control.

Still, if you wanna argue free will does not exist, we first need to have a clear definition what thats even supposed to be, to me its just not clear what its supposed to mean. But honestly, you seem to be applying aurels words rather nicely. You think hes saying free will doesnt exist, maybe you think it yourself, hence, for yourself, you are now a slave of your own being.

>>10099482
That /lit/ thread was phenomenal. You could probably find it by searching the archive for the filename of this picture of grug Albert Camus.

>>10099502
>were just a pretty smart algorithm that goes by familiar patterns and that was molded by genetics
And maybe that is the whole point of "free will", that we are molded by genetics, go by familiar patterns, have the desires that we cant control, and yet make decisions anyway, even though nobody forces us to

>>10098806
Indifference is power though

>>10099502
I'm not differentiating, it's just easier for explanation purposes to imagine the brain as a separate entity. It helps you picture easier.
I don't care what Aurelius said, it's not relevant here to what I was saying, really. Other than starting the discussion.
You don't understand what I'm saying, but you just basically agreed with my post so I don't know why you're arguing against it.

You didn't even decide to write that post, your brain did. You had no say, it already decided for you before you consciously thought of typing the first letter.

You are a slave to genetics, randomness of the universe, and your brain and how it responds to stimuli (due to genetics as in shape, size, how its physically shaped, etc., randomness of the universe), this is 'fate'. But a personal fate, for you.

>>10099525
'You' don't decide anything, you never even had a choice. Your brain (you) decided for you.

>>10099547
How?

>>10099547
indifference has nothing to do with power, if you are indifferent, whatever happens does not affect you anyway, so whatever might aswell happen, its the opposite of power..

you could be argueing that indifference makes someone powerful because they can do whatever they want, but to be honest, who cant? we all live by the same rules. true power is whatever you can do at any given time, and indifferent people cannot care, thats a huge tradeoff imo.

>>10099571
>'you' dont decide anything
>your brain (you) decided for you.

Heres the problem, this makes absolutely no difference to me, I always was like this and always will be like this, I cannot tell what is making decisions or guiding my life, I cannot tell why I have emotions, or thought, I never was able to. Youre trying to tell me what is and what isnt even though you yourself dont know, now it sounds pretty logical to agree that all of the things we both stated guide anyones life, and that most of the body is a slave to the few neurons that interact and make decisions, but ultimately, thinking this will not change anything. if it doesnt make a difference, and if aurel is right that my thoughts control my life (to which I personally agree), then I have no benefit of thinking somehow there is a ghost within me that controls me instead of thinking that this ghost is as much part of myself as everything else. my hands dont choose to obey me writing this, because they cannot chose, they are piece of meat. whatever chose to write this, to me, is my true me. and admitting that I dont have much control never bothered me, but thinking something controls me is both unsettleing and pretty weird since the only thing that controls me are exactly the neurons in my brain, and since they work together, i might aswell describe them as one entity controlling itself

>>10099523
Got a Stirner grug?

>>10099656
its like, as soon as you brand a person as "indifferent", they already are restricted in what they can do compared to another person

>>10099669
Grug Hate spook

>>10099656
>Heres the problem, this makes absolutely no difference to me, I always was like this and always will be like this,
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Personal 'fate' exists for you, and everyone.
>Thinking this will not change anything.
Debatable

It is quite scary to consider free will doesn't exist, of course, I don't disagree.

>>10099593
>>10099656

Indifference is power because of how others view you. People love the guys who don't give a fuck, indifference will unironically get you laid if used right. Indifference is a wonderful power when it comes to women and other social situations.

>>10099656
>he thinks power is enforcing your will on other things

That kind of power is for the weak man.

>>10099785
>Bringing getting laid and people respecting you into a metaphysical discussion

Stoicism is the western Theravada.
>gee life is tough but you'll be happier if you achieve an affected apathy

>>10099822
It makes no difference

>>10099814
This post is you attempting to impose your will on us. By your retarded definitions I assume you acquired from self help books you are a "weak man"

>>10098725
im all in

>>10098725
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha
Philosopher coder with 2 man team, 0 shills, has conned thousands of NEETS on biz into thinking his project is the one to win and go 1000x

Well done Serge

>>10099785
I dont really think so, its that guys who dont give a fuck usually provoke strong reactions and make ppl think about them.

theres a difference between being indifferent and faking indifference too, its powerful to be able to fake it when you are not, its not your choice if you are, so its not powerful in itself

>>10099784
>Yes, that is what I'm saying.
I was thinking you were saying that im enslaved?
>Thinking this will not change anything.
Debateable yes, to me it doesnt change the fact that I will always think according to some laws. I guess what im saying is that it doesnt eradicate the fact that there will be an "algorithm" that I percieve as thinking, it might change the being of this "algorithm", but then
>It is quite scary to consider free will doesn't exist, of course, I don't disagree.
we would both agree to it being a negative change, and agree to what Aurel is saying but chosing not to think in that way because we want a different "algorithm" for our live

>>10099814
power literally just means to me "whatever you can do at any given time"
its power to me if you CAN enforce your will, that doesnt mean that I choose to do it, or that I encourage it

>>10099833
>my only exposure to philosophy is browsing wikipedia

>>10099847
No it isn't, no force is being used in me posting here. I guess you can attempt to castrate me through dialogue though, is that what you're all about?

>>10099924
>power literally just means to me "whatever you can do at any given time"

Agreed, but I still think indifference can be a great power at times. Men are sometimes deluded in thinking they have to take some sort of action.

>>10099939
>no force is being used in me posting here
all is fire

>>10099976
That isn't indifference. That is making a calculated decision that the best course of action is inaction.

>>10099939
your post here themselves are a force, without you, they wouldnt exist. nobody could have asked you to post here or explain your opinion, wether you like it or not, information is always violent

and branding me as weak without even understanding me properly certainly seems like you are castrating yourself in these dialogues

>>10099976
Indifference is not a great power, being able to choose to fake being indifferent is.

If you are, without a choice, indifferent to everything, you literally would not have opinions, emotions, would not be able to judge, would not be able to have morals, or act in any specific way, even not in one that you would percieve as indifferent. Everything that would happen might aswell be an accident, because theres no difference to you. To me that just sounds like you have no power at all. Thats my entire point.

I dont think you mean actual indifference because what you are talking about is not actually being indifferent. In the first post you cared about how others percieve you, then you cared about power. Im not doubting you, but what you are talking about has nothing to do with true indifference.

>>10099926
>my only experience with stoicism is the modern cult of personality surrounding a long dead roman emperor
The thing I actually studied the classics in school.

>>10100076
Eastern philosophy is a dead end. The fact it bears some resemblance to a low level branch of Western philosophy is meaningless.

>my only exposure to philosophy is liking memepages on facebook

>>10100120
immanual kant and business ethics is the only knowledge needed which will cover the philosophical roots to make you a well rounded orator

>>10100076
Personally I'm more into the Enchiridion. Everyone called MA a "good emperor" because he didn't fuck everything up. But he also didn't make the long term strategic moves to keep things from getting fucked up later. I blame it on his "stoicism" and boring self-reflection.

>>10099273
but it actually doesn't because it can't
it would require that there is something independent from the universe's chain of causation within us, i.e. a soul
and there is zero evidence for that and it's childish to assume it just because that'd be kinda nice or some old books say it

>>10100171
the problem is always that we are cucked by logic in a universe where nothing is independent from the universe, not even the concept of being independent from the universe.

asking for evidence is meaningless when you are trying to prove something thats by definition not connected to this universe, its like asking to prove or disprove god, free will and "god" might aswell be the same thing

so its childish to assume it doesnt exist too

>>10099273
chainlink solves the free will problem

>>10100171
>it's childish to assume it just because that'd be kinda nice or some old books say it
*tips fedora
Its impossible to prove or disprove free will.

>>10100271
the singularity dissolves free will
god will be created through ChainLink

>>10100271
Smart contracts are used to create a simulacrum of the universe where free will exists. The price to be plugged into this hyper-real world is 10,000 LINK.